Begode EX20S 3600wh: 100V, suspension, 104lb

[GoGeorgeGo]

1 hour ago, Nick McCutcheon said:

I have the same concern. I'm waiting for any bugs to be worked out on this wheel before committing to the huge price tag, since the top speed and suspension really appeal to me. However, I'm not sure there will be enough interest/publicity for this wheel for any big bugs to even be worked out... Thankfully @GoGeorgeGo was able to communicate the shock issue to Begode. Strange that he had any issues at all though, that doesn't bode well for a sample size of.. *checks notes* two EX20S units out so far 😅

Lol, im pretty sure there is more than 2. I know the first shipment of torque wheels left the factory before my high speed did. So far so good though with mine. I know of at least 2 others out in the wild so thats 3 minimum anyways 😋

Im falling more and more in love with her everyday though. Got some 3d prints done for it so far, bumpers, power pads, and a back handle (an absolute must, should be a stock addition to the machine honestly)

I need to redesign the back handle to make it a little more pretty but its very effective as is at least. The back of the frame there is very skinny and digs into your hand when lifting the machine. I just made it thick and grippy for easier and more comfortable lifting of the machine.

I need to make a front mudguard, and side cover/bumper for the headlight area still

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by GoGeorgeGo

[GoGeorgeGo]

Also an obligatory, i dropped a new video on the ex20s yesterday 😋

Nothing crazy but you can kinda get a look at the control board area and hear me ramble on for a few minutes.

 

I do think this wheel is slowly gaining popularity after its really cold release. I think as we see more dissapointed master/eagle customers you will start to see people reslly warm up to this bad boy. Honestly this is the wheel everyone wants the master to be

[EUC Sharkman]

1 hour ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

I do think this wheel is slowly gaining popularity after its really cold release. I think as we see more dissapointed master/eagle customers you will start to see people reslly warm up to this bad boy. Honestly this is the wheel everyone wants the master to be

Bold claim here! My initial thought when learning more about the EX20S was that this was the wheel that everyone wanted the Eagle/S20/S22 to be. I like that Begode is making the move to 134v in the Master think there could still be some control board or other growing pains. Part of why I prefer the EX20S in a way is that while it’s a newish wheel, some of the growing pains have been mitigated by keeping it 100v and using a suspension built out on the Hero. I think the Master (and future 134v wheels) will be great, and maybe even the new leading industry standard two or three years down the line, but for a wheel this and next year, I’d stick with the tried and true 100v like the EX20S or so many have done with the Sherman Max, whose buyers don’t seem to care it’s still “just” a 100v wheel.

[meepmeepmayer]

10 hours ago, Nick McCutcheon said:

However, I'm not sure there will be enough interest/publicity for this wheel for any big bugs to even be worked out...

3600Wh and suspension.

The only way there could be no interest in this wheel is if the price is too high or if the build quality is too crappy.

So now that I thought about it... I also have to wonder if there will be enough interest in the EX20S

In earnest, the only people who can screw this up are Begode themselves. So yeah...

[Jean eRide.ie Community]

I said it long ago when people were laughing at the EX20S, it is 3600wh, suspension, metal frame, things that people were asking for (and now people talk about weight and rust due to it being made with metal, since now can't complain about it being plastic). 

Let's see if the metal really makes it that much more resistant, I'd say so, mostly compared to Monster plastic shells that broke by letting the wheel fall on it's side sometimes.  

I was thinking of keeping the Monster Pro and getting the S20, but selling the Monster Pro and getting the EX20S made sense, it's a 2-in-1 situation, other than a few compromises (mostly speed, on HT only version available back then). 

There is definitely lots of EX20S out there, but probably many, like mine, won't arrive until end of April due to seafreight delays (in Europe), and the previous Hong-Kong delays due to Covid and Chinese New Year when wheels shipped out (I'm talking 1st batch, HT). 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Jean eRide.ie Community

[wstuart]

This wheel is starting to make sense to me.  I'm hoping ewheels will carry it at some point. 

[meepmeepmayer]

3 hours ago, wstuart said:

This wheel is starting to make sense to me.  I'm hoping ewheels will carry it at some point. 

The Master seems to be the Hero 2.0, with the Hero barely out before the Master was available.

If I had to guess, the EX20S could very well be the 1.0 version before they offer an upgraded, refined version (134V seems to be a no-brainer). But I would be surprised if ewheels didn't sell the EX20S (if only for a short time), like the Hero.

I'm only worried about the price.

[TantasStarke]

52 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I'm only worried about the price.

Alienrides is expecting $3600-$4000 for the EX20S
Would definitely love to see a 134V 3600wh wheel, that would be great

[EUC Sharkman]

45 minutes ago, TantasStarke said:

Alienrides is expecting $3600-$4000 for the EX20S
Would definitely love to see a 134V 3600wh wheel, that would be great

This summer will be interesting times. I have my deposit with AR for the EX20s but I'm keeping an eye on final price. For me, it was just about big battery with suspension, with 134v being gravy. Master is cool but all variations of the battery configurations are lower capacity than my Nikola AR so I think the range of the Master will leave me wanting more.

 

@meepmeepmayerhit it on the head with price concerns too. If we're looking at $3600-$4000 for the 100V big battery suspension wheel, the 134V will likely be in that $4k+ range for power I may not need that may even end up reducing the kind of range I'm looking for in this wheel.

 

But hey, it's not like I have one and these wheels are widespread available yet. I've heard rumors of wheels of even more than 3600 Wh batteries coming out (that'll probably weigh a million pounds) There's time to see impressions and choose the right wheel for our needs and budgets.

[Greg X]

4000$ is too cheap.

We wait more premium euc for 8k usd. 

[TantasStarke]

1 hour ago, TheSlyGiraffEV said:

This summer will be interesting times. I have my deposit with AR for the EX20s but I'm keeping an eye on final price. For me, it was just about big battery with suspension, with 134v being gravy. Master is cool but all variations of the battery configurations are lower capacity than my Nikola AR so I think the range of the Master will leave me wanting more.

 

@meepmeepmayerhit it on the head with price concerns too. If we're looking at $3600-$4000 for the 100V big battery suspension wheel, the 134V will likely be in that $4k+ range for power I may not need that may even end up reducing the kind of range I'm looking for in this wheel.

 

But hey, it's not like I have one and these wheels are widespread available yet. I've heard rumors of wheels of even more than 3600 Wh batteries coming out (that'll probably weigh a million pounds) There's time to see impressions and choose the right wheel for our needs and budgets.

Is it not the same number of cells just in a different configuration?

A 100v 3600wh wheel is 24S8P, 192 cells.
A 134V 3600wh would be 32S6P, 192 cells.

I'm surprised they're still releasing the EX20S as is and not making it 134V and renaming it to fit the Hero, Master, etc. naming scheme and making a Titan or a Grand Champion or something lol.

As for larger batteries I'm all for it for high speed riding. If I ride my AR+ hard I drain it's 2700wh battery pretty quickly. A fast 3600wh wheel is ideally what I want next, and if it could be 134V that would be great. The specs of the Master sound perfect for a heavy rider like myself. 112kmh freespin meaning it has a really high top speed, HT motor meaning it'll be better for me braking and accelerating, suspension to help eat up some bumps. All I want from the Master is 3600wh and I would risk it all and buy a batch 1 wheel. Only reasons I'm holding off on the EX20S is that I'd want the HS motor but I'm concerned about safety at high speed with my weight, and that a 134V 3600wh wheel could be on the horizon

Edited April 11, 2022 by TantasStarke

[GoGeorgeGo]

My main concerns with being a 134.4v would come from first batch innovation risk. Its a new configuration with new components they have never released to public testing. I will be blown away if the master release is flawless. We are already seeing Kingsong struggle with 126v. I was glad i could get it with a trued and true 100.8v. Less chance for issues, plenty of power already, and i already have a nice 3-9 amp charger for it. 

The other reason is being an 8p configuration compared to 6p. An 8p wheel will have less voltage sag, will take less abuse from regenerative braking, can charge faster safer , theoretically stays balanced better. 6p is great, i loved my EXN, but 8p is better.

[supercurio]

59 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

My main concerns with being a 134.4v would come from first batch innovation risk. Its a new configuration with new components they have never released to public testing. I will be blown away if the master release is flawless. We are already seeing Kingsong struggle with 126v. I was glad i could get it with a trued and true 100.8v. Less chance for issues, plenty of power already, and i already have a nice 3-9 amp charger for it. 

Yes their 100.8V system is proven, sort of because we know this pack generation has proven to be problematic, and due to the lack of communication with the BMS and the board, problem can escalate to dramatic proportions. 

In comparison yeah for now we just don't know yet much about the 134V system

59 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

The other reason is being an 8p configuration compared to 6p. An 8p wheel will have less voltage sag, will take less abuse from regenerative braking, can charge faster safer , theoretically stays balanced better. 6p is great, i loved my EXN, but 8p is better.

Note that 192 cells is what determines the sag and regenerative braking capacity.
It makes no difference if they are in 32s6p, 24s8p or 12s16p for that matter. It'll always be the same amount of energy taken or pushed back into each cell.

[GoGeorgeGo]

6 minutes ago, supercurio said:

Yes their 100.8V system is proven, sort of because we know this pack generation has proven to be problematic, and due to the lack of communication with the BMS and the board, problem can escalate to dramatic proportions. 

In comparison yeah for now we just don't know yet much about the 134V system

Note that 192 cells is what determines the sag and regenerative braking capacity.
It makes no difference if they are in 32s6p, 24s8p or 12s16p for that matter. It'll always be the same amount of energy taken or pushed back into each cell.

Is this pack generation problematic? I have not heard of any issues with the new 3 amp limited packs that they are using for the past 6 months or maybe longer now. All incidents that i have seen occured with older wheel models with the original unlimited packs

 

And i disagree on cell total being the end all be all for cell usage. Having 8 points of draw and charge means each cell group is taking less of the load. And the current is not spread perfectly evely among the series, with certain cells taking and giving ever so slightly more than the others. Those stressors are reduced over more individual leads. Granted im certainly not an electrical engineer so maybe my understanding is misguided

Edited April 11, 2022 by GoGeorgeGo

[supercurio]

6 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

Is this pack generation problematic? I have not heard of any issues with the new 3 amp limited packs that they are using for the past 6 months or maybe longer now. All incidents that i have seen occured with older wheel models with the original unlimited packs

Unfortunately yes I was informed about a fire with this new pack generation (from a RS), I'll ask again the source if he can post it with more details.

IMO any design where packs can't exchange data with the boards are fundamentally broken designs for EUCs. For almost all other PEVs it's okay because the pack can just cut out in case of any problem. Then an electric scooter or ebike would just gradually slow down. And that's what BMS for these do indeed. But you can't do that on an EUC since it would induce a crash, and too many end up riding on damaged packs blissfully unaware of what's brewing.

On the EX20S however, are each pack still connected to each other directly, or only via this power board you showed in one of your video, with the capability to prevent one pack to charge another one?

It's still not the same as slightly more evolve Sherman where the wheel would prevent you to ride in case one pack BMS encounters a failure (like your friend who cracked a BMS a while ago in another video, which prompted me to make these: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4903290)

Edited April 11, 2022 by supercurio

[meepmeepmayer]

For these big battery wheels, the price in $ (without tax) or € (with tax) should always be lower than the battery size in Wh. More is crazy expensive to me. These are still Chinese quality machines.

2 hours ago, TantasStarke said:

I'm surprised they're still releasing the EX20S as is and not making it 134V and renaming it to fit the Hero, Master, etc. naming scheme and making a Titan or a Grand Champion or something lol.

Yep, that's why I have this "will be replaced soon" idea in my head.

On the other hand, one can't really make a direct msuper/RS successor in 134V because then 2400Wh (4p) like the Master becomes the new 1800Wh minimum battery size (4p). So maybe the 100V line will live on, and the EX20S is just part of it (even though for 3600Wh 134V would be no problem).

Probably Begode just wanted to not risk everything with 134V and went with two development tracks.

26 minutes ago, supercurio said:

Note that 192 cells is what determines the sag and regenerative braking capacity.

The current is the limiter, though. So 6p (134V) vs 8p (100V) does make a 33% difference. Not that I think it matters much, although @GoGeorgeGomight know better. Historically, 4p vs. less than 4p seems to be the important cutoff for performance wheels, and you wouldn't want less than 4p on such a wheel. (At least with the ususal cells, with the higher discharge cells available now it might be different.)

[supercurio]

17 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

The current is the limiter, though. So 6p (134V) vs 8p (100V) does make a 33% difference. Not that I think it matters much, although @GoGeorgeGomight know better. Historically, 4p vs. less than 4p seems to be the important cutoff for performance wheels, and you wouldn't want less than 4p on such a wheel. (At least with the ususal cells, with the higher discharge cells available now it might be different.)

Sorry to contradict but I will clarify.

Let's say that in order to brake from 30 to 20 mph in 3 seconds, you need to dissipate 1500W during these 3 seconds, and that regen braking efficiency is 40% (fantasy numbers)

So the energy which will be sent back to the pack will be 600W during these 3 seconds.

• A 32s6p configuration at 4V per cell is 128V.
  At 128V, 600W is 4.6875 A of current.
  Divided per 6: 0.78125 A per cell.
  600W into 192 cells is 3.125W per cell
• A 24s8p configuration at 4V per cell is 96V.
  At 96V, 600W is 6.25 A of current.
  Divided per 8: 0.78125 A per cell (same)
  600W into 192 cells is still 3.125W per cell

Conclusion:
Packs configured in 32s6p and 24s8p both have the same capacity, power, torque, acceleration, stress resistance, sag characteristics, braking capability.
Simply because they're both 192 cells, and as a pack will be formed of less parallels since it has more series, the controller will take/regen less current due to the higher voltage accordingly.

Edited April 11, 2022 by supercurio

[TantasStarke]

3 minutes ago, supercurio said:

Conclusion, yes packs configured in 32s6p and 24s8p both have the same capacity, power, torque, acceleration, stress resistance, sag characteristics, braking capability.
Simply because they're both 192 cells, and as a pack will be formed of less parallels since it has more series, the controller will take/regen less current due to the higher voltage accordingly.

Great info, I also have a question on the voltage sag. Would a 24S4P pack made of 20A cells sag the same amount as a 24S8P pack of 10A cells? They both can sustain 80A in this hypothetical scenario. Is it the amount of amps the battery can sustain that causes voltage sag?

Another example on the Master with the option of 10A 50E cells, 35A 40T, and 45A P42A cells, would the 40T and P42A battery configs sag less than the 50E config?

If it works the way I'm thinking would something insane like a 48S2P pack (96 cells) of something like P42A cells perform insanely well? What would be the drawbacks of a config like this? Assuming motors and control boards could be made to sustain this insane config

[EUC Sharkman]

26 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

For these big battery wheels, the price in $ (without tax) or € (with tax) should always be lower than the battery size in Wh. More is crazy expensive to me. These are still Chinese quality machines.

Ah, I wish this were the case, or at least for US retailers. Other than the Monster Pro at $3599 from Alien Rides, the other 3600 Wh wheels (Sherman Max, Commander, EX20s most likely) are more than $3600 USD (pre-tax). I do appreciate that there are more 3600 Wh wheels available now, with more potentially in the future. Wasn't long ago that only the MPro had one this size.

I am also ok that Begode is not mass rushing 134V out for many wheels. I'm still kind of in a "I'll believe it when I see it" in regards to successful wheels above 100V. S20/S22 didn't even make it out yet. Masters are coming!

Edited April 11, 2022 by TheSlyGiraffEV

[supercurio]

2 minutes ago, TantasStarke said:

Great info, I also have a question on the voltage sag. Would a 24S4P pack made of 20A cells sag the same amount as a 24S8P pack of 10A cells? They both can sustain 80A in this hypothetical scenario. Is it the amount of amps the battery can sustain that causes voltage sag?

The continuous current rating seems to be taking into account mostly the heat generated by a cell at a defined current, which is mainly a function of a cell's internal resistance.

Voltage sag under load also seem to be depending on internal resistance but not only, as we can observe that some of the voltage sag is not recovered instantly once the load is removed.
I'm guessing it has a lot of to with chemistry as well, but that's way beyond my current understanding 

For EUCs tho, beyond the more complex sag a cell of lower internal resistance is pretty interesting since the max speed and safety margin depend directly on the voltage of the packs, therefore a high discharge cell will allow an EUC to go faster by dropping from 4.2V to 3.9V instead of all the way down 3.6V when riding at max speed (fantasy numbers again but not that far off)

2 minutes ago, TantasStarke said:

Another example on the Master with the option of 10A 50E cells, 35A 40T, and 45A P42A cells, would the 40T and P42A battery configs sag less than the 50E config?

Yes by significant amounts.

P42A or 40T cell wheels will beep at higher speeds no matter the battery state of charge.

2 minutes ago, TantasStarke said:

If it works the way I'm thinking would something insane like a 48S2P pack (96 cells) of something like P42A cells perform insanely well? What would be the drawbacks of a config like this? Assuming motors and control boards could be made to sustain this insane config

Yes in terms of performance, high drain cells leapfrog high capacity cells.
With high drain cells you don't need that many of them (hence you can make light high performance wheels with high drain cells).

[meepmeepmayer]

@supercurioI think we just meant different things

You are completely right that any power requirement is independent of the internal battery configuration, naturally. And that (for the same reason) with the same battery size, voltage and current balance each other out.

All I meant to say is: you could, in theory, run out of current on a 6p pack and not run out of current on an 8p pack. So in that sense there is a difference. Nevermind that it's 120A vs. 160A (fantasy number of 20A peak discharge) and these numbers are so crazy high so it does not matter.

Just for 3p vs. 4p it did seem to matter (e.g. S18 vs RS).

52 minutes ago, TantasStarke said:

If it works the way I'm thinking would something insane like a 48S2P pack (96 cells) of something like P42A cells perform insanely well? What would be the drawbacks of a config like this? Assuming motors and control boards could be made to sustain this insane config

This is a great idea! I had considered lighter wheels (because less p's are safe now), but not that you could also make crazy fast wheels this way.

You would need a very high voltage board, though, which seems to be tricky. Other than that, can't wait for the new 200V Begodes with 200kph lift speed

[supercurio]

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

All I meant to say is: you could, in theory, run out of current on a 6p pack and not run out of current on an 8p pack. So in that sense there is a difference. Nevermind that it's 120A vs. 160A (fantasy number of 20A peak discharge) and these numbers are so crazy high so it does not matter.

Just for 3p vs. 4p it did seem to matter (e.g. S18 vs RS).

haha yes and no, the comparison works for a 4p and 6p if you take RS and EX.N. EX.N has 50% higher current capacity.

But here I notice that you take as example S18 3p vs RS 4p.
That where the comparison breaks down since you only compare the parallels but omit the series/voltage configuration.

In the comparison as you present, you'd conclude that 4p RS is 33% more capable than S18 3p, but it's incorrect.
In fact RS is 24x4 = 96 cells and S18 is 20x3 = 60 cells, so RS is 60% more capable than S18.

I see most people making the same error when comparing wheels of different voltage, thinking for instance "But S20 or Master are only 4p".
For some reason only looking at pack parallels, ignoring the voltage/series part of the equation. And it's not hard, it's only a multiplication.
Despite in fact S20 is 5p, and Master is 5.33p ... equivalent in a 100.8V wheel world.

Edited April 11, 2022 by supercurio

[meepmeepmayer]

@supercurio

I'm literally only talking about the number of p's. More p's = higher peak current (which you could theoretically run out of), no matter that it makes no difference for 6p vs. 8p.

Whether or not the voltage is the same, or the battery capacity is the same - which would have further implications - does not even come into play.

Let's take the old LG cells with ~7.5A continuous and whatnot A peak. In 3p that was apparently a little weak if you want to build a "performance" wheel (S18), whereas 4p didn't seem to be a real life limitation (RS).

Higher discharge cells make this point moot, too.

45 minutes ago, supercurio said:

Despite in fact S20 is 5p, and Master is 5.33p ... equivalent in a 100.8V wheel world.

As far as peak current is concerned, the S22 is still 6p and the Master 4p. Does it matter? No It seems to be enough either way.

And yes, doing the same thing has the same power requirement on any wheel, so current output isn't so important. But the same way you could run out of top speed on a lower voltage wheel compared to a higher voltage wheel, you could (theoretically) run out of current on a low p wheel versus a high p wheel. I'm not saying much more, and you are right with everything you say.

Maybe we can agree that battery configuration matters beyond the number of cells.

There's a reason the Master is 2400Wh, and I strongly believe it is because that's the minimum battery size to be 4p (besides the peak current point which I might be imagining, 4 also just makes more sense than 3 when a wheel has two sides where batteries can sit).

I wonder what the RS successor (no suspension, cheaper, if it exists) will do. 100V 1800Wh (4p)? 2400Wh 134V (4p)? 1800Wh 134V (3p)? That's the direction my thoughts are coming from.

-

Anyways, for the EX20S we know what is happening. 3600Wh 100V 6p.

[wstuart]

3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

@supercurioI 

You would need a very high voltage board, though, which seems to be tricky. Other than that, can't wait for the new 200V Begodes with 200kph lift speed

So I have a question about this.  I understand that the whole 4p vs 6p is a wash on paper because there are just as many physical cells in the high voltage pack and the increased voltage makes up for what could be less current.  

Power = Voltage × current.    If you give up some current for more voltage, you should end up with roughly the same power.

I wonder how the motor plays into this.  It's my understanding that motors are designed to operate most efficiently at a specific voltage based on the motors "kv" rating.   On our last group ride someone claimed that 84v EUCs are more efficient than 100v because the motors are designed to run on 84v.  If this is true, I wonder if the 126 and 134v wheels will be less efficient if they are using motors that aren't yet designed to run on high voltages.  

On my rc cars we used to through a 3 cell lipo on a 2 cell car and watch it go crazy fast with the higher voltage, but then everything would get hot and the battery wouldn't last as long.   

 

Maybe I'm totally wrong though and they are designing special C38 motors that are wound differently for the higher voltage. 

[supercurio]

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

@supercurio

I'm literally only talking about the number of p's. More p's = higher peak current (which you could theoretically run out of), no matter that it makes no difference for 6p vs. 8p.

Whether or not the voltage is the same, or the battery capacity is the same - which would have further implications - does not even come into play.

Let's take the old LG cells with ~7.5A continuous and whatnot A peak. In 3p that was apparently a little weak if you want to build a "performance" wheel (S18), whereas 4p didn't seem to be a real life limitation (RS).

First, apologies for the complete off-topic 

The example you take is relevant also because it highlights this common misunderstanding when comparing wheels from how many parallels they have, since you omit yourself here the series/voltage parameter:

from: In 3p that was apparently a little weak if you want to build a "performance" wheel (S18), whereas 4p didn't seem to be a real life limitation (RS).
Okay now let's assume that the S18 was 32s/134.4V like the Master.

Then we would have 32x3 = 96 cells, same as 24x4 = 96 cells in the RS.

It illustrates that the S18 is inadequate as "performance" wheel not because it's 3p vs 4p. At 3p it could be just as powerful as the RS.
The S18 battery is inadequate with performance expectations since it has only 60 high capacity cells rated for  7.5A continuous.

Do you see what I mean? The concept of concluding anything from the parallels alone.

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Higher discharge cells make this point moot, too.

Yes exactly it works only when comparing identical or very similar cells.

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

As far as peak current is concerned, the S22 is still 6p and the Master 4p. Does it matter? No It seems to be enough either way.

Peak battery current. (4p for S22)
One of the common misunderstanding I observed is thinking that battery current is the same as motor current, or torque, or speed, or a mix-and match of all these.
And then assuming that Master and RS HT would have the same torque and braking limits since they're both 4p.
Likewise invalid because one is 32s and the other 24s, and the torque (motor current) limits are more limited by the board instead of the battery.

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

And yes, doing the same thing has the same power requirement on any wheel, so current output isn't so important. But the same way you could run out of top speed on a lower voltage wheel compared to a higher voltage wheel, you could (theoretically) run out of current on a low p wheel versus a high p wheel. I'm not saying much more, and you are right with everything you say.

"run out of current on a low p wheel versus a high p wheel." yes if comparing RS HS vs EX.N HS.
Comparison valid only for same voltage wheels tho,

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Maybe we can agree that battery configuration matters beyond the number of cells.

Matters for top safe speed yes, since the higher voltage allows to push current into the coils at higher riding speed, which generate higher back-EMF voltage.
Tho under that, I wouldn't say that battery configuration matters, because if the system operates at higher voltage it will require proportionally less current and vice-versa.
(that's ignoring MOSFET efficiency tho, with step-down voltage conversion which becomes less efficient with higher conversion ratio, so a higher voltage tends to become less efficient since you'll be converting a higher battery voltage to a low motor voltage)

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

There's a reason the Master is 2400Wh, and I strongly believe it is because that's the minimum battery size to be 4p (besides the peak current point which I might be imagining, 4 also just makes more sense than 3 when a wheel has two sides where batteries can sit).

Funny to think that if the Master was 3p instead of 4p, it would have the same cell and power capability as the RS.
But it's complicated to make a symmetrical 3p or 5p pack configuration, as the S18 illustrated, and I'm glad they made it (to be confirmed) 4x1p packs.

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I wonder what the RS successor (no suspension, cheaper, if it exists) will do. 100V 1800Wh (4p)? 2400Wh 134V (4p)? 1800Wh 134V (3p)? That's the direction my thoughts are coming from.

 

Anyways, for the EX20S we know what is happening. 3600Wh 100V 6p.

I agree with you, it will make sense to have a EX20S successor at 32s / 134.4V and with the HT C38 motor just like the Master.
They already have the board, but they don't have the 32s BMS yet that would fit this form factor. I guess that'll need to be developed and validated.

Good point about cheaper wheels. 32s gives options for 64 cells (1200 Wh), 96 cells (1800 Wh, 3p: asymmetric), 128 cells (2400 Wh, 4p: Master), 160 cells (3000 Wh, 5p: asymmetric), 192 cells (3600Wh 6p)

I heard about a 22" wheel with 4800 Wh in the works tho. So that would be 256 cells 32s8p.

Edited April 12, 2022 by supercurio