Begode EX20S 3600wh: 100V, suspension, 104lb

[techyiam]

58 minutes ago, chanman said:

but 15A per cell is a nutty current to use to represent average riding on these bigger capacity wheels. Maybe for a millisecond if you hit a pothole at 40mph. 5A is probably more typical is and much less clear cut

40 mph is 64.8 km/h.

Here is a data point from @Mike Sacristan  

21 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

My early EXN HS with LG cells will typically hit 60A if I am riding around 65kmh. If I hit a bump at those speeds I will usually spike a couple of amps and get a beep from the wheel.

 

 

58 minutes ago, chanman said:

Also depends on where you cut off the voltage to stop riding quite a bit, extending that a bit lower gets a decent bit more mileage out of the high capacity cells,

The datasheet for the LG M50LT states that 1000 cycle life is achievable only if the cell is not discharged below 70% SOC.

I typically don't run my battery packs down below 70% SOC.

Edited May 7, 2022 by techyiam

[chanman]

60A I can believe as a peak current or for accelerating hard to 40mph but not as a sustained cruising current, just seems like too much power to me even at that speed. A 2700Wh pack would be drained in like 30 minutes flat, range would be much more abysmal than reported if that was the case. Although I guess most range tests aren't done with "cruise at the firmware top speed to see how bad the range is" as the goal, and efficiency just a tad slower could be much better if this is at the top speed of the wheel.

Pretty sure my S18 reports around 10A at 20mph cruising.

Anyway, said EXN is a 6P pack? so 10A per cell current there, which is getting to be more than I would like to see for the LG cells, but acceptable if this is peak and not sustained. On the Master I would expect to see less current needed due to the higher voltage, probably pretty similar conditions to hit the 10A per cell threshold in its 32S4P config. The master also unlocks offroady high torque shenanigans where we could see even more current demand than this, so the high power cells do certainly have a case, especially if you want to accelerate hard all the way to 55mph or whatever it does.

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by chanman

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, chanman said:

The master also unlocks offroady high torque shenanigans where we could see even more current demand than this, so the high power cells do certainly have a case, especially if you want to accelerate hard all the way to 55mph or whatever it does.

The Master has a 3500 W motor, high torque, and a very high top speed. I have a feeling that many of those who are drawn to such performance wheels will use it as such. My guess is that there would be less chance for cell abuse if those performance type riders choose the higher discharge cells.

Edited May 7, 2022 by techyiam

[Bizra6ot]

@chanman I have a perfect sample matching this speed for you 

Exn hs black mobo acc.stability FW @97.9V, the averages reported during this run by the eucworld Excel log are

2min20s  avgSpeed  64.62Kmh  avgCurrent 36.90A  avgPower 3406.90W

Max peak 79.6A

[mrelwood]

 

6 hours ago, techyiam said:

The datasheet for the LG M50LT states that 1000 cycle life is achievable only if the cell is not discharged below 70% SOC.

1000 cycles on the EX20S is what, about 80’000 miles? I personally wouldn’t worry about it very much.

6 hours ago, techyiam said:

I typically don't run my battery packs down below 70% SOC.

Sounds like you’d do just fine with a much lighter and cheaper battery pack.

[Mike Sacristan]

73kg riding weight.
When I mention that I "hit" 60A at above 60kmh I don't mean that I am constantly there.
François and I were riding together. I slowed down a bit when I saw that I had dipped to 81v at one point (slight incline).
Got home with 78v and tiltback.

This is what my EXN ride looked like (standard EXN early batch but with new black motherboard and first firmware):

 

[BleepBloopBlop]

One thing to note is Begode wheels show phase current not pack current. An accurate way to infer pack amperage draw is to look at pack voltage sag at a specific state of charge. 

[EMA]

we have really poor instruments to measure those things imho, my sensation is that we have inflated numbers

[Bizra6ot]

Don't know the accuracy but we have both current and phase current listed by eucworld since last year, my avg above was not the phase one

avg Phasecurrent is 46.36A  Max peak 123A on this run, btw i'm 90kg geared for full stats

@BleepBloopBlop Sag went from 97.9 to 91.4V is that what you need?

 

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, Bizra6ot said:

Don't know the accuracy but we have both current and phase current listed by eucworld since last year

Don’t know about the accuracy either, but on GW/BG wheels the EUCw reported battery current is a calculation, probably based on the phase current, voltage, and PWM percentage. Those wheels don’t report the battery current themselves.

[Bizra6ot]

@mrelwood Yeah i know for eucw, but for the actual real battery current it seems that now with the black motherboards @Freestyler @Lefteris @enaon found it in a BT packet "The RoatCurrMax is the real battery current from what I gather, but unfortunately it only holds the max value"

I assume that if it holds the max value it read all the values so there should be a way to extract them?

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Bizra6ot

[Freestyler]

On 5/7/2022 at 11:11 PM, Bizra6ot said:

@mrelwood Yeah i know for eucw, but for the actual real battery current it seems that now with the black motherboards @Freestyler @Lefteris @enaon found it in a BT packet "The RoatCurrMax is the real battery current from what I gather, but unfortunately it only holds the max value"

I assume that if it holds the max value it read all the values so there should be a way to extract them?

 

This is definitely not confirmed. Just speculation. I made the extended packets available to everyone in the hopes that people will discover some things for the rest of us as well 😁

[RagingGrandpa]

Ecodrift finished their EX20 teardown: 
https://ecodrift-ru.translate.goog/2022/05/11/begode-ex20s-razbiraem/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp 

(Batteries and controller are identical to RS, only mounted in different boxes.)

[GoGeorgeGo]

First 70+ degree day that i get a chance to ride in. The cooling on this bad boy seems really good. After 45 minutes of aggressive road riding in direct sunlight the whole time and some elevation changes, my max temp was only 118 degrees. The whole frame is basically a giant heat sink and with the active cooling fan set into the actual heatsink, this thing might be one of the cooler running wheels available. 

Edited May 12, 2022 by GoGeorgeGo

[Begodecrashtestdummy]

1 hour ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

First 70+ degree day that i get a chance to ride in. The cooling on this bad boy seems really good. After 45 minutes of aggressive road riding in direct sunlight the whole time and some elevation changes, my max temp was only 118 degrees. The whole frame is basically a giant heat sink and with the active cooling fan set into the actual heatsink, this thing might be one of the cooler running wheels available. 

Is this the same gogeorgego from YouTube with this video .i guess you changed your mind about never buying a begode wheel probably cuz begode wheels are a fucking blast ! 🤣🤣 🤘🏻😎🤘🏻 I love turning off my alarms 🚨👌🏻😋

 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Dosingpsychedelics

[Taras]

 

[GoGeorgeGo]

6 hours ago, Dosingpsychedelics said:

Is this the same gogeorgego from YouTube with this video .i guess you changed your mind about never buying a begode wheel probably cuz begode wheels are a fucking blast ! 🤣🤣 🤘🏻😎🤘🏻 I love turning off my alarms 🚨👌🏻😋

 

Everything in balance 🤣

[EUC Sharkman]

Hey all! Quick question about suspension since it’s kind of a new thing for me on this EX20S. If I have a riding weight of ~240 lbs, how high of a psi should I put into the stock shock? I currently have 260 psi in there and the knob setting I’m using right now is about one full rotation of the knob away from…full dampening I think the term is?

 

Anyhow, this happens to work for now but does there happen to be a handy guide I can read to know how to fine tune psi and knob settings a bit better? Or even just quick tips would help. Thanks!

[EMA]

1 hour ago, TheSlyGiraffEV said:

Hey all! Quick question about suspension since it’s kind of a new thing for me on this EX20S. If I have a riding weight of ~240 lbs, how high of a psi should I put into the stock shock? I currently have 260 psi in there and the knob setting I’m using right now is about one full rotation of the knob away from…full dampening I think the term is?

 

Anyhow, this happens to work for now but does there happen to be a handy guide I can read to know how to fine tune psi and knob settings a bit better? Or even just quick tips would help. Thanks!

start watching something like this, keep in mind on EUC shocks we are using right now we only have "air" and "rebound"

[GoGeorgeGo]

11 hours ago, TheSlyGiraffEV said:

Hey all! Quick question about suspension since it’s kind of a new thing for me on this EX20S. If I have a riding weight of ~240 lbs, how high of a psi should I put into the stock shock? I currently have 260 psi in there and the knob setting I’m using right now is about one full rotation of the knob away from…full dampening I think the term is?

 

Anyhow, this happens to work for now but does there happen to be a handy guide I can read to know how to fine tune psi and knob settings a bit better? Or even just quick tips would help. Thanks!

Ideally when you stand on it, it should only sag 10-20% of the total travel. So whatever that weight is. On the dnm 36rc i installed that was a 1:1 weight ratio of about 280 psi (im 200lbs geared up and the wheel is around 80 pounds or so around the motor and pedals.) The dnm 38rc i installed seems like 250 lbs is about right for me.

I personally like a super fast rebound, so i set mine to totally open and just a click or 2 down to slow the rebound a tick. 

[EUC Sharkman]

Thanks! This helped out a lot! Air and rebound now make more sense to me, at least when I'm turning the knob one way or another.

At 260 psi, it looks to be closer to 30-35% sag so I'm thinking that psi will need to go higher. Unfortunately, I'm not quite sure the limit, and don't want to pop this poor stock shock. Does anyone happen to know the psi threshold of this stock shock? My pump can only go to 300 psi as well, so I'm also limited anyway in that regard.

[mrelwood]

10 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

Ideally when you stand on it, it should only sag 10-20% of the total travel.

10-20% sounds like a strangely small sag. You’d be reaching the top even after small bumps. Did you arrive in those numbers experimentally?

[GoGeorgeGo]

5 hours ago, mrelwood said:

10-20% sounds like a strangely small sag. You’d be reaching the top even after small bumps. Did you arrive in those numbers experimentally?

Yeah, i think since the travel isnt huge that having kess sag is more comfortable than more. If you are already losing 35% on an 80mm travel then you lose a lot of range of motion. When its to low it doesnt feel as nice. I would prefer to much over not enough based on my experience. Keep in mind your putting 280 lbs on the shock before impacts 

[EMA]

6 hours ago, mrelwood said:

10-20% sounds like a strangely small sag. You’d be reaching the top even after small bumps. Did you arrive in those numbers experimentally?

that's what you usually do on short travel

[ on MTB 30% is generally used on 150-160mm travel ]

[Freeforester]

It’s cool!