Inmotion V13 Speculation

[That Guy]

Three are bits of impressions in different chats from testers. From what I have read, I think V13 is… just good, but not super-exciting, mostly because of its weight and top-heaviness. Maybe this is why there are not too many reviews are out, as InMotion may be analysing of what this all means from the marketing perspective. 

[Freeforester]

20 minutes ago, rebeuc said:

It's not much but I did see this posted recently; can't actually see the wheel though:

Isn’t that around 48mph (78km/h)?  Seems to have plenty of headroom, wonder how far its battery can sustain such a speed 🤔

 

[fbhb]

Euco have made the unprecedented decision to step away from supplying All and Any first batch InMotion V13's to their customers, in light of the ongoing "First Batch" debacles we continue to see across All EUC brands.

Good for them, I say and it will definitely send a strong message to the EUC manufacturers and even more so if more distributors take the same stance!

Announced today via this Facebook post linked below:

Electric Unicycle dot org EUC | I can’t say that I blame EUCO Electric Unicycle Collective for this with the way so many manufacturers are slinging out first batch wheels with issu... | Facebook

 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by fbhb

[mhpr262]

Sad it has come to this.

[techyiam]

Wow, kudos to Euco for taking the stand.

Since customers won't do it, addict's are addict's, it finally took a dealer to publically opt out of batch 1, and gave the "unacceptable quality" reason.

There were real customers getting hurt due to cutouts on V12, S22, and etc.

Edited October 15, 2022 by techyiam

[Zogly]

15 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Wow, kudos to Euco for taking the stand.

Since customers won't do it, addict's are addict's, it finally took a dealer to publically opt out of batch 1, and gave the "unacceptable quality" reason.

There were real customers getting hurt due to cutouts on V12, S22, and etc.

Plus, I'm sure it's better for them as a dealer to be on the safe side. If they are taking care of their customers, major issues like the recent stator issues will cost them time, money, and possibly trust from customers. Nobody, customer or dealer, wants to have expensive problems to deal with. 

[techyiam]

Come to think of it, EEVEES is doing something similar with the Sherman-S. Leaper Kim is not producing the first batch for EEVEES until EEVEES gives the OK after their own testing. 

[MrMonoWheel]

So how will we know the second batch isn't just the first batch 

[meepmeepmayer]

13 hours ago, techyiam said:

Wow, kudos to Euco for taking the stand.

I would guess it's less about taking a principled stand and more about avoiding crazy expensive repairs and replacements. I don't want to imagine what all the 2022 disasters have cost dealers in money and time and stress. Probably getting the early adopter sales doesn't make up for it.

Anyways, this is unequivocally good! If anybody, it's the dealers who can force changes with the manufacturers. Money talks. And manufacturers will have to step up quality unless this becomes the norm and then who will buy their wheels right away? Hopefully they will now design good wheels from the start instead of building something and then hoping and testing if it works. Like all those board problems on the V12 and S22, no excuse for that to still happen, boards should be a solved problem by now. Looks like they did good on that item with the V13 though.

Edited October 15, 2022 by meepmeepmayer

[Funky]

At least some dealers are getting "wiser".  Kudos for doing that. Let's hope euc quality will get improved right out of the box. Not after first/second batch.

 

 

Ps i don't even come in this V13 tread often. As i simply don't need V13. And it doesn't interest me at all.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Funky

[Cress]

EUC Manufacturers are selling to consumers who are accustomed to products that have had multi-discipline review at multiple stages starting with design and continuing through production.  Many people who contribute to this forum have worked in technical manufacturing fields where the review process is so integrated internally, so much a part of everyday work that we forget how many ways and how many times our work is reviewed.  EUC manufacturing is happening in shops that don't accommodate internal review, certainly don't accommodate review by an outside, neutral party.  

People who buy EUCs are accustomed to flying in airplanes and riding in cars that do not fail catastrophically.   Until EUC Manufacturers adopt the philosophy and practices that customers experience from other kinds of manufacturers we will have EUC failures and we will have conflicts with EUC Manufacturers.

The most helpful kind of review is transparent, nothing about the product or its' components is concealed.  Whether the review is internal or external no reverse engineering needs to be done.  A thorough, transparent review process is the best way to find problems that otherwise appear in new products and/or appear as products age BEFORE
problems happen.  

This forum won't replace a good review process but this forum can put EUC Manufacturers on-notice.  When a wheel fails in beta-testing or a battery explodes on older wheel we want to know why the EUC Manufacturer didn't find the problem before the wheel was manufactured. 

My experience with the V12 has been good; the motor-controller didn't fail before I did the first upgrade,  I've disassembled it enough times to memorize the parts and the process, further upgrading of the V12 HS controller is an ongoing project and I have an appreciation of my growing collection of protective gear.  

Everyone newly interested in EUCs should understand they are making a commitment to EUC technology as it develops and making a commitment to EUC Manufacturers who are in a learning process !! 

[Funky]

28 minutes ago, Cress said:

Everyone newly interested in EUCs should understand they are making a commitment to EUC technology as it develops and making a commitment to EUC Manufacturers who are in a learning process !! 

  It should be written on the box then.. You are buying "experimental/prototype" product. Expect not working as intended product... Something in those lines.

Our family for sure didn't know any of these "defects". Good thing we bought an older, already fixed wheels..

You buy new phone - if it doesn't work, you return it. You buy new graphics card for 2000$, doesn't work? - Return. Anything you buy and if it doesn't work as it SHOULD!! People return them for a refund. Warranty is specially made for that. If something goes highwire. You turn it in for repair, or exchange equal device. Free of charge.

Most new users simply buy the damn EUC and ride. Same as buying bicycle, or scooter. They don't go true hundreds of topics/videos just to find out, if that wheel is working or have some kind hidden defect.. Most would expect the DAMN thing to work! Because most would not think that they are buying "Prototypes".

Edited October 15, 2022 by Funky

[Robse]

One thing I've learned for sure now is that one of the greatest pleasures of buying a new wheel is
not the same as the joy of anticipation at Christmas (as a child..) no no, it's unpacking and finding
out whether it works - or rather; Whether it works as intended - or needs a repair or modification to work 

[Unventor]

On 10/14/2022 at 2:09 AM, techyiam said:

Wrongway purportedly to have ridden just a hair below 90 km/h on a city street at night. Mind you, that section of road that he was on, was wide, empty, and quite insulated like on a bridge. Should he have crashed, it would have been a single vehicle accident. And he was riding a first batch? That was just normal riding in a group.

Of course he also rode it at 90 km/h on a 80 km/h highway for reviewing purposes, shown in his first impression video? 

My gut tells me there are a bunch of riders who can't wait to get their hands on one, and go 90 km/h, and beyond.

Maybe but how do the rider blame when somethings goes wrong. 

My V11 had a puncture at 30kmh. And I went down very fast. I am pretty sure most riders that ride fast do not consider this to happen. Mainly because they are "skilled" and comfortable with speed. I just don't think you can keep balance to a safe or safer stop. This is the 2nd time a puncture has happened to me on different EUC while riding. 

[techyiam]

5 minutes ago, Unventor said:

My V11 had a puncture at 30kmh. And I went down very fast.

Do you use Slime in your tires?

I actually have puncture multiple times on my T3. The breech was actually a slit that was more than 5mm long. I was riding around 30 km/h at the time. It lost air quite fast, but I didn't crash. It just felt all a sudden more and more unstable. So I slow down and got off and check. Unfortunately, it lost too much air, so I had to walk it. And soon after, it became completely flat. And when it happened the first time, I had no Slime in the tire. With Slime, tire pressure lost can be slower, if the puncture is big enough, otherwise, it can self seal.

 

[HEC]

On 10/15/2022 at 9:36 PM, meepmeepmayer said:

Anyways, this is unequivocally good! If anybody, it's the dealers who can force changes with the manufacturers. Money talks. And manufacturers will have to step up quality unless this becomes the norm and then who will buy their wheels right away?

Unfortunately, unless significant amount of dealers will follow, this is basically drop of water in the sea and get hardly noticed by Inmotion, as 1st batch will be sold out regardless. Most resellers are limited to 10 - 20 EUCs per batch, so it will have literally zero impact unless dozens of resellers will refuse to sell initial batch. Still, kudos to EUCO, whatever is their main motivation behind this move. Also, keep in mind that new manufacturing / shipping batch doesn't equal to new "design" or improvements batch.

Edited October 18, 2022 by HEC

[jimjam.nyc]

34 minutes ago, HEC said:

Unfortunately, unless significant amount of dealers will follow, this is basically drop of water in the sea and get hardly noticed by Inmotion, as 1st batch will be sold out regardless. Most resellers are limited to 10 - 20 EUCs per batch, so it will have literally zero impact unless dozens of resellers will refuse to sell initial batch. Still, kudos to EUCO, whatever us their main motivation behind this move. Also, keep in mind that new manufacturing / shipping batch doesn't equal to new "design" or improvements batch.

I dont know if EUCOs plan is one to give kudos to. They are basically only applying it to 1 manufacturer. So not only is the the impact questionable, they continue to sell other wheels lacking the same QA to their customers they are supposedly protecting. I am all for trying to solve problems, but put a plan in place that actually attempts to solve the problem. QA problems are not limited to inmotion wheels. They are across the board.. 

I get the v12 pretty much screwed everyone over from distributor to customers so there needs to be something to prevent that from happening again. Then call it what it is, dont disguise it behind some we care about our customers message.  I dont think they have any malice behind it, but it just seems like an odd solution for the problem at hand. (to me)

 

[mrelwood]

7 hours ago, HEC said:

Unfortunately, unless significant amount of dealers will follow, this is basically drop of water in the sea and get hardly noticed by Inmotion, as 1st batch will be sold out regardless.

It's not about the direct and instant financial outcome, but the message of the action. Inmotion has made changes and improvements in their wheels based on just a single suggestion from a potential customer, which clearly has much lesser direct financial impact than even the drop of water in the sea. So yes, this decision will absolutely have an effect, and will be discussed to lengths internally at Inmotion.

 

6 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I dont know if EUCOs plan is one to give kudos to. They are basically only applying it to 1 manufacturer.

They did talk about this in their announcement, that they will consider doing it across the board as well. V13 is simply where they start. My guess is they won't be ordering in many new Begode models either when the time comes.

6 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

they continue to sell other wheels lacking the same QA to their customers they are supposedly protecting.

So do all other sellers in the world. I don't see how you can blame EUCO for selling our their existing stock before applying this new rule to other brands as well. It makes sense to apply it only to upcoming models that they don't have in stock.

What will smell fishy though is if they will still buy in the upcoming Begode models. That would indeed make me question their morale.

[GothamMike]

EUCO, and others, have been burned by QA/QC and is sending a message. 

[Freeforester]

1 hour ago, GothamMike said:

EUCO, and others, have been burned by QA/QC and is sending a message. 

If all the dealers worldwide stopped for a moment and took a look at the mayhem and ‘floor-wiping’ they have had to endure merely because of the poor QA of units from basically all the main manufacturers over the past couple of years, they’d maybe conclude that they were wholly best served by an association of dealers bound by agreed common minimal standards required for EUC quality; the penalty for going it alone is wiping up the mess caused by the manufacturers willingness to continue to offer poor quality or half-baked products, which serves none of them well individually. Unity of purpose will drive better results in the medium and longer term, and I’m sure they are all aware of the various weaknesses and issues each individual wheel type of each individual manufacturer throws up for them to try to deal with, and pacify unhappy customers into the bargain.    As such, EUCO are to be encouraged in their endeavour in this respect, the ‘West was won’ in the 19th century, after all.

#crisis:opportunity

[Josiah]

Do we know which from the options below are being used?  And would we get the news once batch one has left the manufacturer? 

How long does it take to ship from China to the USA? Rules of thumbs for lead times (in regular conditions) are 1-2 weeks for regular post, 3 days for air express freight, 8-10 days for air freight, and 30-40 days for ocean freight.
 

[Unventor]

The decision of EUCO to wait out the V13/Challanger is not unique. Speedyfeet has done it too in the past. 

It has happened too with other brands. It was motivated by too many problems with KS18L first batch. But what happens is eager early birds just do the shopping elsewhere. 

As long you only do this on one model it is not worth anything to the end user. 

 

[techyiam]

It is too early to be certain for now, but the 3024 Wh Inmotion V13 may find itself in a less attractive predicament. 

Currently, the 4800 Wh Master Pro sales momentum trend is quite bullish at Alienrides. It first surpassed the V13 best selling ranking at Alienrides, than a couple days ago, it even surpassed the Monster Pro. It climbing the sales chart, besting Monster Pro, V13 preorders, Commander, and EX20S. This doesn't include the Sherman Max because, in the US, Veteran wheels are exclusive to eWheels. 

If this trend keeps up, and the owners take them on group rides, those wheels that have less than 3600 Wh battery capacity may end up not having enough range to stay with the group in the not too distant future?

Edited October 17, 2022 by techyiam

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

wheels that have less than 3600 Wh

Well, Veteran and Inmotion calculate the Wh differently (Ah multiplied by 3.7 vs 3.6 volts), so the V13 should keep up much better than what the numbers suggest.

[UtahRider]

3 hours ago, techyiam said:

It is too early to be certain for now, but the 3024 Wh Inmotion V13 may find itself in a less attractive predicament. 

Currently, the 4800 Wh Master Pro sales momentum trend is quite bullish at Alienrides. It first surpassed the V13 best selling ranking at Alienrides, than a couple days ago, it even surpassed the Monster Pro. It climbing the sales chart, besting Monster Pro, V13 preorders, Commander, and EX20S. This doesn't include the Sherman Max because, in the US, Veteran wheels are exclusive to eWheels. 

If this trend keeps up, and the owners take them on group rides, those wheels that have less than 3600 Wh battery capacity may end up not having enough range to stay with the group in the not too distant future?

Not sure exactly how the EWheels/Leaperkim business is arranged but Alien Rides and Freemotion sells them too so not exclusive to eWheels. Just fyi.