Inmotion V13 Speculation

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

Well, Veteran and Inmotion calculate the Wh differently (Ah multiplied by 3.7 vs 3.6 volts), so the V13 should keep up much better than what the numbers suggest.

Ultimately, range is the bottom line. So if the V13's range allows it rider to stay with the group, then it would be fine. The 3600 Wh Commander used to have the best range, but now it is the 4800Wh Master Pro. Have to wait and see in how riders will choose their next wheels. 

Should the new big wheels sell well enough, I wonder if we are we going to see bigger and heavier wheels for 2023, and 2024?

[techyiam]

12 minutes ago, UtahRider said:

Not sure exactly how the EWheels/Leaperkim business is arranged but Alien Rides and Freemotion sells them too so not exclusive to eWheels. Just fyi.

Odd. I don't see the Sherman Max listed on Alienrides' website, but I do on FreemotionShop's.

From what I read, Freemotionshop is a dealer based in Quebec, Canada. 

Also, I don't see the Sherman Max sold at Euco, nor REVRides.

[UtahRider]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

Odd. I don't see the Sherman Max listed on Alienrides' website, but I do on FreemotionShop's.

From what I read, Freemotionshop is a dealer based in Quebec, Canada. 

Also, I don't see the Sherman Max sold at Euco, nor REVRides.

That is odd, I thought I saw them on Alienrides but you’re correct they are not. I know EUCO never did.

[MrMonoWheel]

Man I'm just trying to get a nice reliable speedy suspension wheel to replace my v11. This is getting complicated.

[mrelwood]

 

6 hours ago, techyiam said:

Should the new big wheels sell well enough, I wonder if we are we going to see bigger and heavier wheels for 2023, and 2024?

The rumour says that KS is now working on the S16, and Inmotion with two "smaller" wheels for '23, so no matter the sales, I'm pretty sure that we'll have a small wheel year next year!

1 hour ago, Unicycle Santa said:

Man I'm just trying to get a nice reliable speedy suspension wheel to replace my v11. This is getting complicated.

It is. I don't think what you're looking for exists yet. It doesn't for me. The Sherman-S seems promising though.

[techyiam]

23 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

The rumour says that KS is now working on the S16, and Inmotion with two "smaller" wheels for '23, so no matter the sales, I'm pretty sure that we'll have a small wheel year next year!

Since I am very happy with my V12, so unless they are significantly better, it won't benefit me much. 

 

[Funky]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

The rumour says that KS is now working on the S16, and Inmotion with two "smaller" wheels for '23, so no matter the sales, I'm pretty sure that we'll have a small wheel year next year!

Those "smaller" wheels can be around 65lbs(30kg)... Because T4 counts as "smaller" wheel.  Seems people have forgotten what "small" means. Wheels like ks16s, v8, etc..

One can only hope they release something "smaller" than T4.

[Freeforester]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

Those "smaller" wheels can be around 65lbs(30kg)... Because T4 counts as "smaller" wheel.  Seems people have forgotten what "small" means. Wheels like ks16s, v8, etc..

One can only hope they release something "smaller" than T4.

 “Far away” might refer to the future…

[Funky]

1 hour ago, Freeforester said:

 “Far away” might refer to the future…

But how "Far away"? That's the question.. 2027? 2030? 2045? Next gen, when i'm already six feet under?  

Edited October 18, 2022 by Funky

[Freeforester]

 

2 hours ago, Funky said:

But how "Far away"? That's the question.. 2027? 2030? 2045? Next gen, when i'm already six feet under?  

 

Let’s all just hope they break into the mobility frame and scooter business, rather than funeral hearse vehicles… 😆

[MrMonoWheel]

7 hours ago, mrelwood said:

It is. I don't think what you're looking for exists yet. It doesn't for me. The Sherman-S seems promising though.

Unfortunately I think you are right. The Sherman S does seem very promising, I just wish it had more overhead in the speed department. However if it can sustain 45mph for long enough without issues it's a serious contender.

[Josiah]

With raw material shortage and export curbs from Washington could there be subtle differences and delays/ unplanned price increases between V13 batches?  Adding more hurdles to the manufacturing, distribution and consumer sales process.

Just saw this article about the CEO of Murata, the worlds largest Capacitor manufacturer.  About Washington’s latest export curbs and how they impact or favorite tech companies in china.  

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Supply-Chain/Japan-tech-supplier-Murata-warns-over-rapid-U.S.-China-decoupling

Edited October 22, 2022 by Josiah

[rebeuc]

6 minutes ago, Josiah said:

With raw material shortage and export curbs from Washington could there be subtle differences and delays/ unplanned price increases between V13 batches?

Of course that is always possible; no one can predict future trade relations or material prices with any reliability.

There are plenty of other factors that could affect the price as well, even 'just because'

Remember with the original Veteran Sherman had a substantial price increase which was likely due to its unexpected popularity.

I assume something similar could happen for the v13 (in either direction; more popular than expected and difficult to stock? Possible price increase. Less popular than expected? Discount to get them moving, though I don't know if I would expect it to go below the early bird pricing)

Side note: assuming the leak from the online store is correct, that early bird pricing ends on Oct 31 which is fast approaching

[Tawpie]

43 minutes ago, Josiah said:

With raw material shortage and export curbs from Washington could there be subtle differences and delays/ unplanned price increases between V13 batches?  Adding more hurdles to the manufacturing, distribution and consumer sales process.

Just saw this article about the CEO of Murata, the worlds largest Capacitor manufacturer.  About Washington’s latest export curbs and how they impact or favorite tech companies in china.  

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Supply-Chain/Japan-tech-supplier-Murata-warns-over-rapid-U.S.-China-decoupling

totally hijacking the thread, but I had to smile that Murata's CEO is concerned about decoupling. Since decoupling is what most capacitors are used for...

[onizukagto]

Huh, this bloke looks familiar... 

Naaa.. Probably just someone canny like. 

https://www.facebook.com/100058128605852/posts/pfbid0BuFfixGR2LFDdyhbRQszmpmeCTeVNrY2vJNugCErsczBy2ZasD6oWPurZzdkSgarl/?sfnsn=mo

[MrMonoWheel]

I still can't decide if the wheel looks cheap and plasticy or well built. The Sherman S immediately gives a sense of robustness and durability, but I cant seem to pin it with this one. We need REVIEWS!

[rebeuc]

15 minutes ago, onizukagto said:

Huh, this bloke looks familiar... 

Naaa.. Probably just someone canny like. 

There is no mystery on the link provided; this was taken directly from Kuji Rolls own facebook page where he has the caption "Taking a closer look at the #inmotionv13 ."

(There had been an earlier post from inmotion themselves about a mystery tester coming in to look at the v13 that everyone assumed to be Kuji, but there is no mystery with this post except for what @onizukagto added)

[rebeuc]

13 minutes ago, Unicycle Santa said:

I still can't decide if the wheel looks cheap and plasticy or well built. The Sherman S immediately gives a sense of robustness and durability, but I cant seem to pin it with this one. We need REVIEWS!

I agree that the looks are a bit odd, but cheap and plastic is not the term that comes to mind.

It's kinda strange; with the large metal brackets in front and back I would be inclined to say industrial, except the orange color kinda makes that not seem to fit.

It is in a weird hybrid state where it is not particularly aesthetic, though we may in time grow to think of it more that way.

It certainly does not have that immediately undeniable beauty that the v11 had (to date I think the v11 and the s18 are two of the best looking wheels available, just for different reasons). You can see some of the design elements of the v11 under the odd choice in bracket design, just not even remotely as aesthetically well done.

I have a sneaky suspicion that there will be some sort of 3rd party cover made that radically changes the look of this wheel (along with providing protection)

[MrMonoWheel]

1 hour ago, rebeuc said:

I agree that the looks are a bit odd, but cheap and plastic is not the term that comes to mind.

It's kinda strange; with the large metal brackets in front and back I would be inclined to say industrial, except the orange color kinda makes that not seem to fit.

It is in a weird hybrid state where it is not particularly aesthetic, though we may in time grow to think of it more that way.

It certainly does not have that immediately undeniable beauty that the v11 had (to date I think the v11 and the s18 are two of the best looking wheels available, just for different reasons). You can see some of the design elements of the v11 under the odd choice in bracket design, just not even remotely as aesthetically well done.

I have a sneaky suspicion that there will be some sort of 3rd party cover made that radically changes the look of this wheel (along with providing protection)

I completely agree. As far as the cheap plasticy goes I was really referencing some begode wheels and earlier wheels that just felt kind of hollow and not very strong. However plastic can also be stronger than metal in a lot of cases, so who knows! As for the color that's what got me too. The orange (in my opinion) just doesn't seem to fit very well and the wheel isn't exactly a looker, but maybe it's function far surpasses form. I wonder if we could use a paint/anodization stripper to turn those rails silver? 

[Mango]

2 hours ago, rebeuc said:

There is no mystery on the link provided; this was taken directly from Kuji Rolls own facebook page where he has the caption "Taking a closer look at the #inmotionv13 ."

(There had been an earlier post from inmotion themselves about a mystery tester coming in to look at the v13 that everyone assumed to be Kuji, but there is no mystery with this post except for what @onizukagto added)

Are you sure? So many fake accounts, and fake personalities on the internet and youtube.

There's this Chinese guy who looks exactly like Elon Musk floating around the web. You can never be sure.

[Bob Yan]

On 10/13/2022 at 10:27 PM, jimjam.nyc said:

I don't see any huge red flags when people pushing wheels get cutouts (especially pre-production testing models). On top of that the rider said they were at fault. You cant tell the whole story from watching a video.

Some of the youtubers for wheels are not only getting extremely annoying, their opinions should be taken with a grain of salt.

All of this being said. I wish inmotion would stop overselling and hyping their stuff.. Telling people the goal is a zero cutout experience was asking for trouble. There really is no way to have 100% no cutout experience with EUC's. Trying to hype and give that kind of perfection is just impossible to achieve. Anyone expecting that is just setting expectations way too high. 

I would be WAY more skeptical if we didnt see a cutout on v13.. Look at the v12 stuff before it was released.. All glowing opinions.. Then people got their wheels and first pothole you faceplant.  Same with the Begode wheels right now.. All i hear is how amazing they are.. Then everyone rushes out to buy them, and in less than month they are falling apart. Then round 2 and new products are flying out every 2 weeks.

 

 

I agree that it's very hard to avoid a cutout for a EUC if you push it beyond its limit, and I'm with you that INMOTION should not try to oversell around this topic. But for INMOTION R&D team, "No Fire, No Cutout" has been a mission rooted deep in our heart.  Yes it's hard, but it's so important for the riders, so we'll keep improving things to get closer and closer to this goal. 

EUC has been and will probably still be a niche market for many upcoming years, a lot of QC issues are related to this core reason. The best seller of the entire EUC market might only been able to sold a few thousands units a year, and for most models, the total units sold a year might be a few hundreds.  For those who familiar with manufactures, you may understand what it means. The MOQ(Minimum Order Quantity) of most components is above 1k, and top tier suppliers just don't have any interest to get involved with this kind of business.  That being said, most of the components are made by small business who tend to be lack of QC measurements, which is one of the most important reason why so many QC problems occurred and why manufactures are struggled solve a minor problem.  It's unfair to the consumers, but sadly it's where are we now at the very beginning phase of this industry. 

We've selected a few testers for our batch 1(Beta) V13 wheels.  Most domestic testers have been testing their wheels over than a month for now, and the next step is to ship out the wheels for international testers.   The reason why we do it this way is because of some factors:  1. It only takes 3 days for the domestic testers to get their wheel, so they can begin the testing timely, while the air shipping time cost to USA takes around a month, and EU might be even longer.  Since we have a very tight schedule, we want to get feedbacks from real life riders ASAP.   2. It's very convenient to diagnose and solve problems during the testing domestically.   3. The purpose of the batch 1(Beta) wheels are made to help INMOTION to find potential bugs and get them fixed before selling to end consumers, and they are not made for reviews, so we'd like to keep it down low to let our team focus on fixing things instead of distracted from outside conflict at this phase. 

It's very helpful to have outside riders do this round of testing, which had been lacked for all the previous models. A lot of times, we just can’t find out the bugs no matter how hard our internal team test, this time I have to say the testers are real abusing their wheels.  We have redesigned quite a lot components already, and many details have been addressed.  We believe that the quality will be better after all those procedures executed properly, and there'll be transparent reviews and testing out soon. 

 

 

[rebeuc]

2 hours ago, Bob Yan said:

We've selected a few testers for our batch 1(Beta) V13 wheels.  Most domestic testers have been testing their wheels over than a month for now, and the next step is to ship out the wheels for international testers.   The reason why we do it this way is because of some factors:  1. It only takes 3 days for the domestic testers to get their wheel, so they can begin the testing timely, while the air shipping time cost to USA takes around a month, and EU might be even longer.  Since we have a very tight schedule, we want to get feedbacks from real life riders ASAP.   2. It's very convenient to diagnose and solve problems during the testing domestically.   3. The purpose of the batch 1(Beta) wheels are made to help INMOTION to find potential bugs and get them fixed before selling to end consumers, and they are not made for reviews, so we'd like to keep it down low to let our team focus on fixing things instead of distracted from outside conflict at this phase. 

It's very helpful to have outside riders do this round of testing, which had been lacked for all the previous models. A lot of times, we just can’t find out the bugs no matter how hard our internal team test, this time I have to say the testers are real abusing their wheels.  We have redesigned quite a lot components already, and many details have been addressed.  We believe that the quality will be better after all those procedures executed properly, and there'll be transparent reviews and testing out soon. 

Thank you for the insight, and please don't read too much into our discussion, we are all just extremely impatient and it is human nature to speculate and read too much into things.

We are looking forward to when information does start releasing, and we respect and appreciate that there is a process to this to avoid releasing a product too early while still keeping the community engaged and 'hyped up'.

I am optimistic about this wheel, and am excited to see the reviews and more information as the NDAs start to expire and later test units get out in the field.

[mrelwood]

4 hours ago, Bob Yan said:

I agree that it's very hard to avoid a cutout for a EUC if you push it beyond its limit, and I'm with you that INMOTION should not try to oversell around this topic. But for INMOTION R&D team, "No Fire, No Cutout" has been a mission rooted deep in our heart.  Yes it's hard, but it's so important for the riders, so we'll keep improving things to get closer and closer to this goal. 

EUC has been and will probably still be a niche market for many upcoming years, a lot of QC issues are related to this core reason. The best seller of the entire EUC market might only been able to sold a few thousands units a year, and for most models, the total units sold a year might be a few hundreds.  For those who familiar with manufactures, you may understand what it means. The MOQ(Minimum Order Quantity) of most components is above 1k, and top tier suppliers just don't have any interest to get involved with this kind of business.  That being said, most of the components are made by small business who tend to be lack of QC measurements, which is one of the most important reason why so many QC problems occurred and why manufactures are struggled solve a minor problem.  It's unfair to the consumers, but sadly it's where are we now at the very beginning phase of this industry. 

We've selected a few testers for our batch 1(Beta) V13 wheels.  Most domestic testers have been testing their wheels over than a month for now, and the next step is to ship out the wheels for international testers.   The reason why we do it this way is because of some factors:  1. It only takes 3 days for the domestic testers to get their wheel, so they can begin the testing timely, while the air shipping time cost to USA takes around a month, and EU might be even longer.  Since we have a very tight schedule, we want to get feedbacks from real life riders ASAP.   2. It's very convenient to diagnose and solve problems during the testing domestically.   3. The purpose of the batch 1(Beta) wheels are made to help INMOTION to find potential bugs and get them fixed before selling to end consumers, and they are not made for reviews, so we'd like to keep it down low to let our team focus on fixing things instead of distracted from outside conflict at this phase. 

It's very helpful to have outside riders do this round of testing, which had been lacked for all the previous models. A lot of times, we just can’t find out the bugs no matter how hard our internal team test, this time I have to say the testers are real abusing their wheels.  We have redesigned quite a lot components already, and many details have been addressed.  We believe that the quality will be better after all those procedures executed properly, and there'll be transparent reviews and testing out soon. 

 

 

Thank you so much @Bob Yan for opening up and sharing some of the thoughts and plans of Inmotion! Reading stuff like this coming directly from one of the top persons in the company makes me trust Inmotion even more. Your goals are very respectable!

If only other manufacturers would follow your footsteps and share some of their thoughts and plans, and especially the persistent aim for better products for us riders!

Can't wait to see what you have in mind for 2023, since the rumour says that you might again be launching an EUC in my weight group!

[techyiam]

9 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Reading stuff like this coming directly from one of the top persons in the company makes me trust Inmotion even more.

According to the Inmotion V13 Challenger Launch video, @Bob Yan is the current CEO of Inmotion. 

Edited October 23, 2022 by techyiam

[winterwheel]

6 hours ago, Bob Yan said:

I agree that it's very hard to avoid a cutout for a EUC if you push it beyond its limit, and I'm with you that INMOTION should not try to oversell around this topic. But for INMOTION R&D team, "No Fire, No Cutout" has been a mission rooted deep in our heart.  Yes it's hard, but it's so important for the riders, so we'll keep improving things to get closer and closer to this goal. 

EUC has been and will probably still be a niche market for many upcoming years, a lot of QC issues are related to this core reason. The best seller of the entire EUC market might only been able to sold a few thousands units a year, and for most models, the total units sold a year might be a few hundreds.  For those who familiar with manufactures, you may understand what it means. The MOQ(Minimum Order Quantity) of most components is above 1k, and top tier suppliers just don't have any interest to get involved with this kind of business.  That being said, most of the components are made by small business who tend to be lack of QC measurements, which is one of the most important reason why so many QC problems occurred and why manufactures are struggled solve a minor problem.  It's unfair to the consumers, but sadly it's where are we now at the very beginning phase of this industry. 

We've selected a few testers for our batch 1(Beta) V13 wheels.  Most domestic testers have been testing their wheels over than a month for now, and the next step is to ship out the wheels for international testers.   The reason why we do it this way is because of some factors:  1. It only takes 3 days for the domestic testers to get their wheel, so they can begin the testing timely, while the air shipping time cost to USA takes around a month, and EU might be even longer.  Since we have a very tight schedule, we want to get feedbacks from real life riders ASAP.   2. It's very convenient to diagnose and solve problems during the testing domestically.   3. The purpose of the batch 1(Beta) wheels are made to help INMOTION to find potential bugs and get them fixed before selling to end consumers, and they are not made for reviews, so we'd like to keep it down low to let our team focus on fixing things instead of distracted from outside conflict at this phase. 

It's very helpful to have outside riders do this round of testing, which had been lacked for all the previous models. A lot of times, we just can’t find out the bugs no matter how hard our internal team test, this time I have to say the testers are real abusing their wheels.  We have redesigned quite a lot components already, and many details have been addressed.  We believe that the quality will be better after all those procedures executed properly, and there'll be transparent reviews and testing out soon. 

 

 

We'd be happy to do some winter testing if you you're interested in how any of your wheels perform at low temperatures, on snow and or ice.