King Song S18 Discussion

[Roadpower]

30 minutes ago, dycus said:

...on bright sunny days it truly stabs you in the eyeballs.

lol, I was looking for some words to respond to that thing and then I read the exactly correct comment on it.

[5Cauac]

54 minutes ago, dycus said:

I wrapped my S18 with pink and green fluorescent vinyl,

It screams Juicy Watermelon Bubble Gum!! 

Nicely done wrap job my friend. I love the alternating colors on each side. That's dope. 

[OldFartRides]

I’m curious about the shock. Do you like it ? What’s your weight ? Did you do any other suspension improvements ?

[dycus]

Appreciate the kind comments! It's definitely an attention-grabber, hah.

 

1 hour ago, OldFartRides said:

I’m curious about the shock. Do you like it ? What’s your weight ? Did you do any other suspension improvements ?

I think it's great, it feels plush and takes the hits well. Though, I didn't spend a ton of time tuning the air shock before switching to a coil. Also, I switched to the coil right after taking the wheel apart to fix the suspension (I removed a LOT of friction), so I really don't have a valid comparison. Maybe I'll switch back some day to evaluate it.

For context, this is at least a 2nd-batch wheel (bought it about 1.5 months ago). Before I fixed the suspension, I could barely slide the wheel up and down even with the shock off. I had to pull the wheel to get it to slide. Now, it very easily falls under its own weight, just picking the wheel up. It was a bit smoother before I tightened the axle bolts, but given it's so much better than before, I'm happy with it.

I didn't change any of the bearings, none of them looked damaged. I took everything apart and checked every linkage and pivot point for resistance, and fixed it where possible. Added more spacers where one of the arms was scraping the frame. Cut out slots in both sides of the fender so the linkage bolts don't rub. Cut down the spacers on the ends of the shock, because it was binding when I tightened the shock bolts. Added just a little grease on the shock spacers/bolts. Took a couple days but it was definitely worth it. I was changing to the TR1 as well so I really had the whole wheel apart.

I'm 130lbs, about 145 geared up. I had a 750lb shock (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D497BM1) before, it was way too stiff for my weight. I was barely using 60% of the travel even on big drops. The 550 seems just about perfect, most I've ever compressed it was ~37mm (the bump stop contacts at 40mm compression). The wheel also only has 80mm travel before it hits its bump stops too.

It's super important to find the right spring rate for your weight and riding style, it's why coil shocks are more finnicky than air shocks. If your spring is too stiff you won't be able to use your full suspension travel (and it'll feel harsh), too soft and you'll be bottoming out. Air is easy because you can just pump it up or let some air out.

I want to get a Sprindex adjustable spring, but I'm going to ride the 550lb coil for a long time to make sure I pick the right range. As I get better I'll probably start getting near full suspension travel more often.

Edited March 28, 2022 by dycus

[Tawpie]

3 hours ago, dycus said:

The shock is DNM RCP2S, 550lbs, 200mmx56mm.

That's the shock on the S20... hmmmmmmmm I want a 550 lb spring.

[dycus]

Well... whoops!

 

Decided to go to the skatepark today, was having fun until I decided to try going up stairs for the first time. I preloaded the suspension to jump up the first stair but mistimed it and hit it loaded. It was a metal edge too. Expensive mistake... thankfully the rest of the wheel is fine besides some dents in the front plastic frame where it fell and hit the second stair (you can see it out of focus in the 2nd picture). I hope I didn't break the belts in the TR1, they're not that easy to get.

You can also see in the second picture that the outside isn't just dented, but sheared off the rest of the rim. It's nearly still rideable except the tire is bulging out and rubbing the fender.

[MetricUSA]

They reason why you should not reenact scenes you seen on YouTube, they are nothing more than wheel abusers...stair climbing is a stupid stunt...

Edited April 1, 2022 by MetricUSA

[5Cauac]

20 minutes ago, dycus said:

Well... whoops!

Man, you must have been going pretty fast to cause that break going "UP" the stairs. Either that or your PSI was way too low for the skate park. How far down SoCal are you? I have a used motor with less than 1k miles if interested. Swapped it out a while back when I thought I had a bad hall sensor. It ended up being pinched sensor wires. 

[NErider]

38 minutes ago, dycus said:

Well... whoops!

 

Decided to go to the skatepark today, was having fun until I decided to try going up stairs for the first time. I preloaded the suspension to jump up the first stair but mistimed it and hit it loaded. It was a metal edge too. Expensive mistake... thankfully the rest of the wheel is fine besides some dents in the front plastic frame where it fell and hit the second stair (you can see it out of focus in the 2nd picture). I hope I didn't break the belts in the TR1, they're not that easy to get.

You can also see in the second picture that the outside isn't just dented, but sheared off the rest of the rim. It's nearly still rideable except the tire is bulging out and rubbing the fender.

I have a spare rim assembly that I pulled a failed motor out of if you are interested. PM sent. 

[dycus]

59 minutes ago, MetricUSA said:

They reason why you should not reenact scenes you seen on YouTube, they are nothing more than wheel abusers...stair climbing is a stupid stunt...

Heh, yeah, lesson learned! Definitely need more practice, at least.

 

39 minutes ago, 5Cauac said:

Man, you must have been going pretty fast to cause that break going "UP" the stairs. Either that or your PSI was way too low for the skate park. How far down SoCal are you? I have a used motor with less than 1k miles if interested. Swapped it out a while back when I thought I had a bad hall sensor. It ended up being pinched sensor wires. 

Probably a combo of both... about 30psi and going somewhat quickly. I'm near San Bernardino. I really appreciate the motor offer! I'm going to look at NErider's rim, I was actually just wishing EUC parts sellers had only rims, so I'm happy to replace just that. If it doesn't work out I'll let you know.

 

31 minutes ago, NErider said:

I have a spare rim assembly that I pulled a failed motor out of if you are interested. PM sent. 

Thank you!

[enaon]

anybody knows this chip the new s18's bms has?

[Tawpie]

candidate http://www.neotec.com.tw/upload/products/112/NT166xA_DS_V1.04_1.pdf

Does overcharge protection, this is likely it... it's very static sensitive, don't touch unless you're wearing a (tested) static strap

Edited April 1, 2022 by Tawpie

[enaon]

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

candidate http://www.neotec.com.tw/upload/products/112/NT166xA_DS_V1.04_1.pdf

Does overcharge protection, this is likely it... it's very static sensitive, don't touch unless you're wearing a (tested) static strap

thanks, it replaces the health check part on the old bms. 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by enaon

[Vurtigo]

Ordered an S18 last night for my commute, I'm stoked coming from a Onewheel. 

I ordered w/ upgraded molicel batteries, but don't quite understand the benefit.  

Salesperson stated going from LG 5mah to Molicel 4.2mah is better for torque, acceleration, longevity etc...

Can anyone ELI5?

[enaon]

4 minutes ago, Vurtigo said:

Ordered an S18 last night for my commute, I'm stoked coming from a Onewheel. 

I ordered w/ upgraded molicel batteries, but don't quite understand the benefit.  

Salesperson stated going from LG 5mah to Molicel 4.2mah is better for torque, acceleration, longevity etc...

Can anyone ELI5?

molicel on the s18 would be great, but are you sure it is available? Can you post a link?

Edited April 8, 2022 by enaon

[Vurtigo]

12 minutes ago, enaon said:

molicel on the s18 would be great, but are you sure it is available? Can you post a link?

It doesn't show up on the eWheels site, but I was sent a link to purchase from the salesperson.  

Edited April 8, 2022 by Vurtigo

[Tawpie]

42 minutes ago, Vurtigo said:

I ordered w/ upgraded molicel batteries, but don't quite understand the benefit.  

Salesperson stated going from LG 5mah to Molicel 4.2mah is better for torque, acceleration, longevity etc...

They told you this because the Molicel is capable of delivering more current to the motor, and more current at the motor translates to more get-up-and-go. One thing I don't know is if the S18's thrust (max current delivered to the motor) is limited by the cells or some other firmware control. At worst case, you won't be able to utilize the additional current that the Molicels can deliver because the controller won't allow it (thinking it has standard, lower current cells installed). If the controller allows it, you won't experience (as much) the "heavy-to-normal weight rider's" complaint that the batteries won't let it accelerate as quickly as they'd like. Light riders are more satisfied with the S18 performance (and all wheels in general... less mass to move benefits the off-the-line performance of all wheels).

You can probably? expect the pack to last longer because each cell is rated for higher current draw, so the cells might not suffer as much 'damage' from the current demands that acceleration puts on them. It makes sense that they shouldn't "wear out" as quickly because they're not being used near the limit of their capability... I say "shouldn't" because I don't know that it is actually true. Either way, charge to charger green+1 or 2 hours and you'll still get 20k miles before you need to replace the batteries.

The major downside is that the total capacity of your wheel will be lower, and the S18 already has a (relatively) small battery. If your commute is very long, reduced range isn't really what you want but if it's short and/or you can charge when you're at work, it won't be an issue.

Congratulations! Do take time to set the suspension up properly, it makes a big difference. MTB articles on setup abound... they provide a starting point from which you can customize to suit your taste and riding conditions.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Tawpie

[Vurtigo]

Thank you for that informative answer!  My total commute is 14 miles on 90% good flat road, so hopefully range isn't reduced too much, but I guess I'll find out.  I'm happy about the batteries adding a little pep to it, all the youtube reviews mention it being a bit slow off the start. 

[Tawpie]

Yay! You should be fine. Always remember with KS wheels that their listed top speed is optimistic, and while the wheel will go 31 mph, it's not a good idea. I have my tiltback set to 28. Headroom at speed might actually be a huge benefit of the Molicel pack though... again, it depends on if the controller will allow it but your Molicels will be able to keep up with motor current demands at high speed quite a bit better than the standard batteries. THAT'S IT! It's a safety upgrade!

Edited April 8, 2022 by Tawpie

[meepmeepmayer]

Yep, the Molicel cells have less capacity but far higher peak power output (the discharge current). The S18 has a 3p battery configuration , which meant that it could be overpowered more easily than a "real" performance wheel (they seem to start at 4p which seems to be very robust). Now with the Molicell cells, you get crazy high peak power despite the battery configuration, and this concern (calling it a problem would be too much, the S18 is just what it is) is beyond you. You pay for it with a little less battery capacity (about 15% less range).

Whether or not the wheel will actually ride differently is up for debate. In principle, you shouldn't notice any difference up the the point where the regular S18 would be overpowered and yours is not. But who knows about the intricacies that govern its behavior.

[Tawpie]

@Vurtigo Welcome to the nuthouse by the way! But. If your handle implies what I think it implies, you absolutely must wear a high quality brain bucket at all times 

[Vurtigo]

2 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

@Vurtigo Welcome to the nuthouse by the way! But. If your handle implies what I think it implies, you absolutely must wear a high quality brain bucket at all times 

HA!  Thank you, but no I don't get vertigo.  Vurt is a book I loved back in the day and vertigo is a cool word, so I just put 'em together punk rock style.

I ordered a downhill MTB full face last night...my old Thousand will stick w/ the OneWheel.

[enaon]

53 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

One thing I don't know is if the S18's thrust (max current delivered to the motor) is limited by the cells or some other firmware control

I have 4p on mine, alarms come later than on stock, I think it is voltage drop related too. 

Edited April 8, 2022 by enaon

[RetroThruster]

I ordered the Molicel version last night, of course before reading here about it, I'm going to stick with it though, I don't need range for it's intended purpose and the trails beside my house have some steep spots so maybe it'll help and I'm no lightweight.  Maybe I can talk RockyTop into riding it back to back with his standard version to get an idea of any performance advantage/disadvantages.

[Oshintao]

39 minutes ago, RetroThruster said:

I ordered the Molicel version last night, of course before reading here about it, I'm going to stick with it though, I don't need range for it's intended purpose and the trails beside my house have some steep spots so maybe it'll help and I'm no lightweight.  Maybe I can talk RockyTop into riding it back to back with his standard version to get an idea of any performance advantage/disadvantages.

I’m on ewheels webpage and reading here didn’t get the differences so clear there’s a version with Molicel and other with LG. Any “main” difference on the speed of the wheel?