King Song S18 Discussion

[Tawpie]

7 minutes ago, dycus said:

Still, I think we could safely squeeze more current through the S18 in most conditions.

This seems to be true for most KS wheels—they have been very conservative, 'overly conservative' in my opinion!

Downside of allowing more current: less range. And the S18 is already at the very edge of tolerable!

[dycus]

Well it's up to you to keep your power usage down! This would just allow higher currents at the top end, it wouldn't use more power in normal riding.

[enaon]

5 hours ago, dycus said:

though I wish manufacturers would put probes right on top of the MOSFETs. I wonder where on the heatsink it actually probes.

is is between the mosfet rows, to one side. I think the spot is nice, the s18 has one of the best, if not the best cooling system. 

Edited June 13, 2022 by enaon

[OldFartRides]

On 6/12/2022 at 9:02 PM, RJohn said:

hello,

my first post on here after lurking on here for a bit.

my s18 came without the metal block between the pedals. I am changing my tire so when it comes time to reassemble the pedals how do I ensure that I am not over tightening them ? over doing it causes the shocks to bind right ?(the block for the setting the shocks is not the same block is it ?)

Hi, and welcome to the forum Rj. You are correct.
This is a bit of a conundrum, however. The easy answer is slam it back together like KS did on the initial assembly. 
Another option is to put it together carefully and painstakingly, tweaking the alignment of the axle, maybe having to shape those blocks as well in order to have those sliders slide easily the whole way up and down ( with everything tight and ready to go riding) without the shock in place.

Or, some compromise between those two extremes. There’s a lot of reading here on the subject. 
But if you get that thing sliding well, it’s a pretty nice suspension even w the stock shock.

Best,

On 6/12/2022 at 9:02 PM, RJohn said:

Edited June 14, 2022 by OldFartRides

[dycus]

On 6/12/2022 at 6:02 PM, RJohn said:

hello,

my first post on here after lurking on here for a bit.

my s18 came without the metal block between the pedals. I am changing my tire so when it comes time to reassemble the pedals how do I ensure that I am not over tightening them ? over doing it causes the shocks to bind right ?(the block for the setting the shocks is not the same block is it ?)

Later models didn't come with a block and instead modified the pedal hangers to have material there. Is there a space where a block would have gone, or is there a "bridge" of aluminum on both sides?

Pictured: The later-model pedal hangers

[Fahrtwind]

9 hours ago, enaon said:

is is between the mosfet rows, to one side. I think the spot is nice, the s18 has one of the best, if not the best cooling system. 

Hmm, I think I have seen this pic already somewhere 

 

[The Brahan Seer]

On 6/13/2022 at 2:02 AM, RJohn said:

over doing it causes the shocks to bind right ?

When I tightened the block I would tighten each bolt slightly, and then move to the diagonal opposite tighten it slightly, then move to top bolt slightly tighten it, and then the diagonal opposite from it (Similar to what we do when putting a wheel back on a car). Tightening each more as we go round. This will help eliminate any torsion issues. I hope this makes sense. As to how much to tighten I went with hand tight plus a little more. Say 1/4 turn. Seems to be ok. I know thats very vague sorry.

[OldFartRides]

After reading Brahman Seer’s post I realize my answer avoided the question…so let me add this :

If you haven’t tightened thousands of bolts, screws and nuts and stripped a few threads out or broken a few bolt or screw heads off, it probably seems like a mystery, this mecha-knicking. And even if you have, sometimes cheap Chinese fasteners break if you look at them sideways, especially the little ones. So you have to ask yourself, is this going to work itself loose and fall out ? Is it going to break off if I give it just a little more ? Steel is stronger than aluminum, so steel will strip out aluminum threads and dissimilar metals are prone to corrosion so steel fasteners get stuck in aluminum.  Steel is way stronger than plastic, so consider that too. Allen, or hex wrenches are harder than these cheap barrel bolts on the suspension and will ruin them before the thread lock gives up. 
 

Best,

[RJohn]

On 6/13/2022 at 10:43 PM, dycus said:

Later models didn't come with a block and instead modified the pedal hangers to have material there. Is there a space where a block would have gone, or is there a "bridge" of aluminum on both sides?

Pictured: The later-model pedal hangers

sorry for the late response. I checked and mine is the newer style like the picture. One think I did do was take a set of calipers and get the spacing between the closest points on each side before disassembly and then try to replicate it when assembling it.

[RJohn]

On 6/14/2022 at 8:30 AM, OldFartRides said:

After reading Brahman Seer’s post I realize my answer avoided the question…so let me add this :

If you haven’t tightened thousands of bolts, screws and nuts and stripped a few threads out or broken a few bolt or screw heads off, it probably seems like a mystery, this mecha-knicking. And even if you have, sometimes cheap Chinese fasteners break if you look at them sideways, especially the little ones. So you have to ask yourself, is this going to work itself loose and fall out ? Is it going to break off if I give it just a little more ? Steel is stronger than aluminum, so steel will strip out aluminum threads and dissimilar metals are prone to corrosion so steel fasteners get stuck in aluminum.  Steel is way stronger than plastic, so consider that too. Allen, or hex wrenches are harder than these cheap barrel bolts on the suspension and will ruin them before the thread lock gives up. 
 

Best,

having assembled numerous rc helicopters and then countless racing drones I am all to familiar unfortunately with stripping out screws. That was where first learnt about doing the whole "star or cross" pattern when bolting stuff down. One thing I did here was use my dewalt drill that has torque settings. I set it at the lowest setting and tightened each bolt in the cross pattern. Then I bumped it up one setting and repeated. Did this till I was satisfied. Seemed more reliable than trusting my hands. 

[RJohn]

ok. so looks like I have a problem.

After my recent tire swap I rode my 18 two times for a couple of miles for test rides. Great ..no problems.

Then this morning I decided to charge it up and take it on a trail ride. As soon as I plug in the charger to the s18 I get a continuous solid tone from the beeper. The charge brick does turn red but  the tone stays solid. Then while its doing this if I fire up the EUC world app it connects, beeps and then the tone stops. AND an examination of the screen shows that while the battery is charging (voltage and percentage going up) the amp draw shows a positive 0.1 to 0.2 amps ! (normally -2.6 amps or thereabouts ). During this time the rear brake light charge indicator does not come on.

I can replicate this. Its not a one time thing.

THEN I unplug the charger. I turn on the s18 and it comes alive normally. I plug in the charger again and this time no tone! Brick is red showing charging and when I fire up the EUC app and it connects it NOW SHOWS NORMAL CHARGE negative amp draws (-2.6a) !!  with the battery voltage and percent rising the same as above.

I can replicate this too.

Someone on FB suggested using the KS app to pull up a diagnostics as they had experienced the same with a bad hall sensor wire. When I check it with the ks app I dont see any issues. Everything reports normal.

 

[enaon]

a continuous solid tone from the beeper is strange, the rest are maybe unrelated, I have a similar bug on version 2.06.  

You have to turn the s18 on before putting to the charger. If the s18 was off when you pugged the charger in, the BT will turn on, but charger port amp reading will be broken. 

Edited June 19, 2022 by enaon

[ijeff]

On 6/9/2022 at 8:00 PM, enaon said:

I wasn't jocking, they are Crocs (noname 10usd ones), so the material is industrial grade EVA. 

I tested them today, I can jump the s18 no problem, they are soft to the touch but firm, like one would expect from this material. I really like the way I found to mount them, no glue or holes on the s18 are needed, easy to adjust power pad angle, plus they look nice on the s18.  If anyone is interested I can show it in more detail.

 

Wow! I'd be interested to see more about how you attached them. I also see you've referred to it as a 4p setup. Where's the extra pack hidden?

Edited June 21, 2022 by ijeff

[enaon]

 

5 hours ago, ijeff said:

Wow! I'd be interested to see more about how you attached them. I also see you've referred to it as a 4p setup. Where's the extra pack hidden?

the extra p is build in the plastic frame of the s18, half on each side, they connect though plugs on the back cover. The width is extended by ~2 cm at the bottom (-0.5cm at top)side to accommodate for this, It is time consuming and I do not really want to be responsible about people doing diy batteries, other that this it is very doable, here are some photos. I will take some of the pads attaching method too. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by enaon

[Tawpie]

@enaon I know spiked pedals are a thing, but I'm not certain the kitty's claws will do much to keep your feet on the pedal.

I'm envious of your 4th p… I wouldn't need an S22. But you got me thinking...

1000USD for 3p of brand new molicel from my favorite retailer. I could spend 500USD, maybe more, for another p from a qualified battery builder and get the S18XL that I actually want. I have an S18 with a great suspension already... 🤔

Edited June 21, 2022 by Tawpie

[enaon]

8 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

I wouldn't need an S22.

It really puzzles me that KS has not released an s18l, I was sure they would by now. The space and the ability to accept 10p packs is there already, they only need to make a new plastic skeleton part. 


this is small video of the pads attaching method, a bit ugly because I was still playing to find the best angle, but it shows the idea well, they hold in place by distributing force.

 

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by enaon

[ijeff]

@enaon Incredible stuff all around. Thanks for sharing! Those hidden packs are brilliant. I'm sure there'd be interest if you ever decided to sell kits.

 

Do you have close up photos of how you mounted the rear lights?

[enaon]

2 hours ago, ijeff said:

Do you have close up photos of how you mounted the rear lights?

thank you for the kind words

it is this light from aliexpress* , the logic board is swapped for one with an NRF, it auto connects to the wheel and proxies the connection, so it is stand alone, but can work with more than one, The one on the bottom is somewhat special, it has it's charging port connected to the usb port of the s18 internally, so it can detect power on and auto connect first inline, it is also responsible for the alarm. The one on the top I wear on me when riding(the lights detect regen and act as brake lights, this is mostly why I wanted them), I use this place on the shock as a placeholder for when I do not want it on me. 

 

*the smart version has an accelerometer and acts as a brake light, but for euc usage it is a fail

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by enaon

[enaon]

Renault clio, transformers edition.

[Funky]

9 hours ago, enaon said:

Renault clio, transformers edition.
 

Dam - expensive bonfire logs. When will sacrifice commence?

 

Do i see K66 on one of the bad girls? Narly!

[Tawpie]

Has anyone tried firmware 2.16 that's available in the iOS KS app?

"handup stop test
ADC sample just"

Edited July 13, 2022 by Tawpie

[Fahrtwind]

As you know: I had to change my motherboard, last MB was on 2.09. The new Board came with V2.16, I coulnd´t find any differences/improvements

[Paul g]

On 6/22/2022 at 6:34 AM, enaon said:

thank you for the kind words

it is this light from aliexpress* , the logic board is swapped for one with an NRF, it auto connects to the wheel and proxies the connection, so it is stand alone, but can work with more than one, The one on the bottom is somewhat special, it has it's charging port connected to the usb port of the s18 internally, so it can detect power on and auto connect first inline, it is also responsible for the alarm. The one on the top I wear on me when riding(the lights detect regen and act as brake lights, this is mostly why I wanted them), I use this place on the shock as a placeholder for when I do not want it on me. 

 

*the smart version has an accelerometer and acts as a brake light, but for euc usage it is a fail

 

What is NRF board? You mean Near Field Communication?
That is wicked! I bought one with accelerometer and behaves poorly when braking, I mean it doesn’t detect it unless hard braking. It looks like you connect it to your smartwatch and the smartwatch to the EUC. Did you do that by yourself?

 

[enaon]

57 minutes ago, Paul g said:

What is NRF board? You mean Near Field Communication?

NRF is the nordic BLE chipset, the one that is used on appletags etc. So the light is actually more than smart, it auto connects to the wheel, reads amperage and speed and acts on those. It does not need the watch, it has the EUC client inside the light so it is fully standalone, but can also proxy the connection so more lights/ watches can connect. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by enaon

[Paul g]

13 minutes ago, enaon said:

NRF is the nordic BLE chipset, the one that is used on appletags etc. So the light is actually more than smart, it auto connects to the wheel, reads amperage and speed and acts on those. It does not need the watch, it has the EUC client inside the light so it is fully standalone, but can also proxy the connection so more lights/ watches can connect. 

OK, Thanks!  Is it a step-by-step description on the fabrication process on the internet so someone interested could make one similar?

Edited July 27, 2022 by Paul g