King Song S18 Discussion

[enaon]

1 minute ago, Paul g said:

OK, Thanks!  Is it a step-by-step description on the fabrication process on the internet so someone interested could make one similar?

it is a bit complicated for a how to. The code is here: https://enaon.github.io/eucWatch/dsd6
but the hardware part is not so easy, one has to find a board that fits inside the light. I had some ~20 dsd6 smartbands, that are just prefect for this so I used those. I will have my eyes open for cheap small nrf boards though, having a brake light on the helmet that works good is maybe the most important accessory for the EUC I think.

[Paul g]

I found this for the helmet, but would hunt for something more affordable : https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/brakefree-the-smart-brake-light-for-motorcyclists#/ 

[enaon]

6 minutes ago, Paul g said:

I found this for the helmet, but would hunt for something more affordable : https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/brakefree-the-smart-brake-light-for-motorcyclists#/ 

this looks nice, yet mine is more advanced, and the total cost was ~20euro(excluding labor ) 
If I ever find some boards I will make some more.

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by enaon

[Paul g]

I’m actually looking for a brake light that can light up only when braking. Couldn’t find one until now. It is very important to be a dedicated light otherwise it doesn’t stand out from the normal light. The braking signalling is more visible when the normal light and the braking light are separate, similar to cars. I would put this one on the back of the helmet or backpack.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Paul g

[enaon]

21 minutes ago, Paul g said:

I’m actually looking for a brake light that can light up only when braking. Couldn’t find one until now. It is very important to be a dedicated light otherwise it doesn’t stand out from the normal light. The braking signalling is more visible when the normal light and the braking light are separate, similar to cars. I would put this one on the back of the helmet or backpack.

Yes a break-only light sounds good. My eucLight does something similar, if the euc lights are off, so is the light, it only acts as a break light.
 
I also "stole" this pattern, I found it to be very nice indeed. 

 

the reason I have them flashing is because I have one mounted on the s18, and one that is usually at the neck level, since I do not wear a helmet.  
I think they add something to the picture, from the car's perspective they both look integrated to the euc, it is not like I have some bicycle lights on, they act and feel like a part of the vehicle. 

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by enaon

[Paul g]

11 minutes ago, enaon said:

My eucLight does something similar, if the euc lights are off, so is the light, it only acts as a break light.

That is cool! What I also like at the light you showed in your video is the large surface- it makes it more visible than usual small bicycle lights. But must say, needs more battery. I like one that easily can do 8 h or more. 2h is very limiting.

[Tawpie]

7 hours ago, Fahrtwind said:

The new Board came with V2.16, I coulnd´t find any differences/improvements

With 2.09 if your trolly handle was in the first detent when you turned it on, it would say the handle was broken. They seem to have fixed that in 2.16! Other than that, I haven't noticed any other differences either.

Thanks!

[enaon]

20 minutes ago, Paul g said:

That is cool! What I also like at the light you showed in your video is the large surface- it makes it more visible than usual small bicycle lights. But must say, needs more battery. I like one that easily can do 8 h or more. 2h is very limiting.

 

yes this light has a very nice cob led inside, one of the best I have seen, very efficient too. It can do more that 4 hours with the flashing pattern on, more that 8h as a break light only, and can also charge on the go. It real usage , it last all day, maybe two, because it auto stops when the euc stops etc. This week that I used the euc only for small runs, I have not charged the light yet, it is still on 54%. 

I have also went to the extent to change the charging port on them, I have made them compatible with the watches charger cable, magnetic waterproof and very easy to add the cable when still mounted on. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by enaon

[Paul g]

2 minutes ago, enaon said:

 

yes this light has a very nice cob led inside, one of the best I have seen, very efficient too. It can do more that 4 hours with the flashing pattern on, more that 8h as a break light only, and can also change on the go. 

I have also went to the extent to change the charging port on them, I have made them compatible with the watches charger cable, magnetic waterproof and very easy to add the cable when still mounted on. 

Well, that is quite a feat!  In that small case as well. I would use whatever space inside for more battery though.

[enaon]

11 minutes ago, Paul g said:

Well, that is quite a feat!  In that small case as well. I would use whatever space inside for more battery though.

the battery is quite ok, 380mAh, it is way better with the NRF that it was with the original board, but I agree, for an on the helmet solution, double or triple the size is fine. It is just a matter of finding a good light on alliexpress I think, if it is bigger, an NRF board that fits will be easier to find.  

[Tawpie]

Does the S18 underreport the MOSFET temperature?

This started in the S20/22 thread...

I laid the wheel on its side so the motor drive was for sure disabled, powered it up and watched the temp for 10 minutes... didn't move at all so it's (probably) not a data smoothing thing. Outside temperature was 81F, EUCWorld "Temperature" (MOSFET) 70F, "Motor Temperature" 66F. So while it doesn't really mean anything to my riding, it does appear that my S18 is reporting lower temperatures than they should be, at least if you look before riding. I'm guessing this is also true for my 16XS.

As side info, my 67V MTen started out +6F over ambient and rose rapidly to +10F over ambient in under 2 minutes. The temp sensor on the MTen must be closer to the CPU, and it appears to be reporting high.

 

[Kommienezuspadt]

Anyone other than myself pick up a kickstand from AliExpress? I saw these in 2020 on some random YouTube video or Facebook page. $70 shipped, and took a chance. 
 

Just installed it on my Molicel pack S18. Materials are quality, missing one of the six screws in the package unfortunately. It technically works, but pretty much only on level, hard surfaces. On carpet at my house, it was precarious and kept wanted to tip to the left or right.
 

Would be helpful in a coffee shop with hardwood floors or concrete, as that’s always awkward to find a place to balance it on a wall near an outlet.

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Kommienezuspadt

[Tawpie]

A few days ago @5Cauac posted a video where he was able to resuscitate his S18 after he struck his slider on a rock which effectively locked the wheel… power but no balancing. He carries a power bank with a built in AC inverter along with his charger, because this lockout can be released by connecting to a charger.

I remember some time ago there was a thread where knocking on the sliders with a hammer would make the motor jump, that kind of thing smells like an electrical grounding problem but it's also consistent with something that might make the control board throw its toys out of bed and shut the wheel down. I thought... wow, I'm lucky that hasn't happened to me, my downfall (literally) is usually a pedal strike. So of course, I'm now trying to figure out how to pad up a 3 lb power bank and charger so they don't smash my kidney or break my back in a fall.

And then I thought... if the blow can be softened, might it reduce the chance the wheel will lockout?

So I cut up a scrap of "kids play floor" padding and wouldn't you know... zip tying one of the interlock keys to the holes in the slider post will provide some padding! It probably won't work and it's certainly not durable but it's cheap and easy.

A better solution would be to 3D print a ramp, but I don't have a printer and don't need another hobby. But I'm going to see how long it takes to fall off, and carry the wheel 'defib'.

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Tawpie

[NErider]

On 8/4/2022 at 5:21 PM, Kommienezuspadt said:

Anyone other than myself pick up a kickstand from AliExpress? I saw these in 2020 on some random YouTube video or Facebook page. $70 shipped, and took a chance. 
 

Just installed it on my Molicel pack S18. Materials are quality, missing one of the six screws in the package unfortunately. It technically works, but pretty much only on level, hard surfaces. On carpet at my house, it was precarious and kept wanted to tip to the left or right.
 

Would be helpful in a coffee shop with hardwood floors or concrete, as that’s always awkward to find a place to balance it on a wall near an outlet.

 

I was interested to get that stand also, but once I was past the "keep my wheel shiny" phase, I just park it on its face. It's only as good as your stand. Flat even surfaces only. 

Since you are good with ordering stuff from AliExpress,  check out the OEM looking power pads for the S18. They aren't the best solution, but they look the best, and are way more effective for braking than stock. I glued mine on with E6000 glue since the provided tape only held a short time. 

[fbhb]

On 8/21/2022 at 5:28 PM, Tawpie said:

@5Cauac posted a video where he was able to resuscitate his S18 after he struck his slider on a rock which effectively locked the wheel… power but no balancing. He carries a power bank with a built in AC inverter along with his charger, because this lockout can be released by connecting to a charger.

At the time of the above video, I replied to @5Cauac's post stating that I would have to look into cutting my S18 slider tubes down, to prevent the risk of finding myself in the same predicament (but in my case, with No Way to jump start my S18)

I Also stated, that I had to first find a way to re-attach the loops of my EUC Bodyguard, as it is designed to loop around each of the 4 protruding section's of slider tube! 

Fortunately, the solution for the EUC Bodyguard attachment points was quite an easy fix as I chose to simply swap out the bottom 4 pedal hanger screws to 5mm longer ones (20mm to 25mm) and attach the 4 loops to the 6mm of protruding excess thread.

Having sorted that out, I was all set to go ahead and cut the slider tubes close to flush with the underside of the pedal hangers, so I now have No risk of falling foul of this issue with the potential to leave me stranded out on a trail somewhere!

 

My thanks again to @5Cauac for pointing this out in his video and provoking me to go ahead with this mod.

 

Edited August 28, 2022 by fbhb

[fbhb]

Ecodrift has published King Song's S18 V2 Motor and Slider upgrade information on their site today 08/09/2022:

Ecodrift King Song S18 v2. Motor and Sliders

Looks to be a huge improvement to the infamous alignment/inaccuracy issues of the older cast iron sliders, with the added bonus of being the easiest tyre change/motor drop available on ANY wheel currently available and a 1Kg weight saving to boot!

Edited September 8, 2022 by fbhb

[yoos]

28 minutes ago, fbhb said:

Ecodrift has published King Song's S18 V2 Motor and Slider upgrade information on their site today 08/09/2022:

Note that this is all from July 2021. They received the updated motor and sliders but agreed not to publish anything so that sales of the v1 would not be hurt. Key takeaways (from the prototype, not the actual v2 being shipped now):

1. almost 1kg weight savings
2. good waterproofing of motor bearings -- this particular wheel survived the russian winter and 5500km.
3. much better slider alignment, should not require aftermarket tuning (and if such tuning is still done it will be easier)
4. Much easier tire change procedure.

I am very tempted by this new S18 incarnation, it's a very substantial upgrade!

[Ksmack]

1 hour ago, yoos said:

Note that this is all from July 2021. They received the updated motor and sliders but agreed not to publish anything so that sales of the v1 would not be hurt. Key takeaways (from the prototype, not the actual v2 being shipped now):

1. almost 1kg weight savings
2. good waterproofing of motor bearings -- this particular wheel survived the russian winter and 5500km.
3. much better slider alignment, should not require aftermarket tuning (and if such tuning is still done it will be easier)
4. Much easier tire change procedure.

I am very tempted by this new S18 incarnation, it's a very substantial upgrade!

This looks really nice!!! Are the motor specs the same, or is a 3300W motor like the S22?

[InnerBarrel]

So I received my S18 mid July and since day 1, the motor made a wouwou sound instead of a steady wouuuu sound.  I later understood that the motor was not turning straight as can be seen here.  Do you think the motor needs replacement?  I sent my wheel back on August 5th and the seller I bought it from is still waiting on KS.

In this video, at 0:11, you can see the rim (not the tire) move from side to side. And at 1:11, if you look at the ridges on the motor outer edges, you also see the wobble. Been like that since day 1 and I have tried 3 other S18 that don't have this. The place where I bought it says it's normal but it seems to me that the motor is out of round.

https://youtu.be/IAKA7u_sG4I

Another thing is that on August 12th, they charged my wheel to 95% (I shipped it to them at 55%) and it's been sitting at above 90% ever since.

Could someone link a good article that describes battery degradation when left near full charge?

Thanks in advance.

[InnerBarrel]

My S18 also suffered from leaning left.

To my surprise, I saw those 2 small washers between the motor axle and the suspension sliders and started researching why those were there.  Found that the manufacturing tolerances are so bad that KS thinks its a good idea.  I understand that removing those washers causes the suspension to bind because of the bad manufacturing.

I kind of solved the problem by slightly loosening the inner bolts of the axle clamp (I know, not a good fix but the washers are on the outside so most of the clamping force is now on the outside as well).

Question is, since these things are not perpendicular to one another, I thought it might be a good idea to

1- remove the 2 washers on each side

2- coat the bottom of the suspension sliders (grey side parts) with a thin coat of either JB Weld or casing repair putty or whatever.

3- put a thin layer of oil on the motor axis

4- Reassemble the wheel and just snug the bolts letting ooze out any excess and whipe

5- Once cured, tighten the bolts properly

Would this not be an alternative to re-machining everything straight?

 

Thanks,

[OldFartRides]

Wow, there’s a lot to unpack there….

First, welcome to the forum. 
Second, what a horrible intro to the wild world of EUC’s.

A(nother) dodgy s18 and an s22. 
 

I think the problem with your shortcut is going to be alignment. There’s a whole lot going on with this suspension, and there’s really no easy answers to putting it right IMHO. 
You can have all your linkages working smoothly and then when it gets to the part where you tighten the axle clamps, hello, it binds.

 It all makes a good case for non- suspension wheels. Except that having suspension is nice.

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, InnerBarrel said:

The place where I bought it says it's normal but it seems to me that the motor is out of round.

If this is their attitude, I'd strongly consider demanding a refund and finding a different seller. The motor likely isn't "out of round", but it may be mounted out of alignment... either way, it ain't acceptable.

Yes, the S18 suspension is finicky and if everything isn't just so it won't work as well as it was designed to. But steps like having things not quite tight or adding glue (JB Weld is glue, not really structural) are not normal and you as the end consumer shouldn't even consider them. When it's all aligned, it's a very very nice and robust suspension but when it's not working, it's dead weight. KS can and does make these that work out of the box, but they also make some that don't. Those that don't should be returned IMO, it's the only way to encourage the supply chain to solve the problem.

[InnerBarrel]

3 hours ago, Tawpie said:

If this is their attitude, I'd strongly consider demanding a refund and finding a different seller. The motor likely isn't "out of round", but it may be mounted out of alignment... either way, it ain't acceptable.

Yes, the S18 suspension is finicky and if everything isn't just so it won't work as well as it was designed to. But steps like having things not quite tight or adding glue (JB Weld is glue, not really structural) are not normal and you as the end consumer shouldn't even consider them. When it's all aligned, it's a very very nice and robust suspension but when it's not working, it's dead weight. KS can and does make these that work out of the box, but they also make some that don't. Those that don't should be returned IMO, it's the only way to encourage the supply chain to solve the problem.

Please look at the video and notice the rim at 0.11 and the whole motor at 1:11.  I bought it from a reputable reseller who I will keep anonymous for the time being in case they decide to do the right thing.  Thanks

[mrelwood]

22 hours ago, InnerBarrel said:

So I received my S18 mid July and since day 1, the motor made a wouwou sound instead of a steady wouuuu sound.

That is normal, and many or even most especially larger wheels do "wouwou". It doesn't take much in the tolerances to change the sound.

22 hours ago, InnerBarrel said:

I later understood that the motor was not turning straight as can be seen here.  Do you think the motor needs replacement?

Your motor and rim do wobble more than usual, but it's not at showstopper levels imo. That much should still be able to compensate for with a proper tire alignment. And if one wanted to have the rim more straight, one could realign the rotator (rim) and the motor covers to decrease the side to side movement.

Unfortunately your case is not enough for most sellers to provide a replacement wheel or a motor. I think they should for a wheel with a top speed of 50km/h, but that's just how it seems to be.

22 hours ago, InnerBarrel said:

Another thing is that on August 12th, they charged my wheel to 95% (I shipped it to them at 55%) and it's been sitting at above 90% ever since.

It would if course be better to have the wheel at a lower voltage, but in the grand scheme of things I don't think it will noticeably decrease the life you get out of the battery. Even if it would decrease the lifecycles, the battery should still be good for 10000-20000km, or even more.

22 hours ago, InnerBarrel said:

Could someone link a good article that describes battery degradation when left near full charge?

Like with most things battery related, head to battery university. By this article, a li-ion cell will degrade to 80% capacity if stored at 100% for a full year. Storage at 40% would degrade only to 96%:

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-702-how-to-store-batteries

And here's more info about storing batteries:

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries

[euc.alyptus]

Hi all. I currently have issue charging my S18. The charger is stay green when plugged and the app showing error 223 : Charging over voltage or overcurrent.

I measured the voltage using voltmeter and the 3 packs showing the same voltage around 74Volt. 

Measured the output of the charger and it reads 84 Volt.

Any suggestion what could be the problem here? Controller? charger? or the BMS?

Also I noticed in the battery connector there were other small cables alongside with the discharge cable (red and black). What those cables are used for? is it the charging cable or just sensor cable?