King Song S18 Discussion

[Tawpie]

54 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Don't throw away good batteries...

Too bad there isn't some way to "trade in" an S18 battery set. It sure seems like the cases and BMS could be reused.

[enaon]

On 5/15/2022 at 7:32 PM, Tawpie said:

Maybe the SE will be better, but the S18 only has 3 batteries in parallel rather than 4 like your 16X.

the 16x is 6p 

1554 Wh (6p x 3500 mAh, 18650)

[enaon]

On 5/7/2022 at 9:28 PM, dycus said:

While doing a battery swap I noticed a design flaw that can dent the front battery cases when there's a hard side impact.

very true.

[5Cauac]

1 hour ago, RagingGrandpa said:

howabout resell your standard S18 for $1500 to a local beginner, and buy a new P42A S18 for $2200.

I thought about it but just can't bring myself to sell my first EUC nor spend an extra K for all new and shiny parts. Besides, I already own a spare CB and motor for the S18. Other than a broken tip on my CB holder (the ones @ the brake light assembly) there is nothing wrong with my wheel, so not worth getting a new one IMHO.

I've had bad luck with the stock packs and currently running on a bad pack (I know, I know....I shouldn't be riding it). I just want to be confident I wont be stranded on some gnarly trail having to wheel or carry it back several miles back to my car because I dropped it the wrong way or hit a pedal hanger while torqueing from very low speeds.

I've done that way too many times, not fun. 

[5Cauac]

1 hour ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Don't throw away good batteries...

I'm sure there are plenty of S18 owner that would love to have a spare front or back set on hand. I know I would.  

[Tawpie]

30 minutes ago, 5Cauac said:

Other than a broken tip on my CB holder (the ones @ the brake light assembly) there is nothing wrong with my wheel, so not worth getting a new one IMHO.

I've had bad luck with the stock packs and currently running on a bad pack

wow. That sounds familiar! Same broken tip, but otherwise everything works fantastic. My stock pack is only charging to 83.4V (1000 miles) so I'm eyeing it with suspicion but I don't believe it's "bad" yet... but it's why the Molicel replacement has my interest.

Problem is, I really should sell it if and when the S22 ever arrives. I should, but I don't want to... the guy I bought it from put the best (no longer in print) sticker on it, and it has the only set of Fish pedals on the planet. And I like riding it, I just need more range.

Edited May 17, 2022 by Tawpie

[Tawpie]

I mean, can't lose this sticker! I might have to get another top cover so I can keep this one...

[enaon]

I think ks should make an s18l, 4p. Even the weight gain suits it fine.

Edited May 17, 2022 by enaon

[dycus]

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Correct, they 'should'. That's making an assumption that the KS firmware will permit use of the additional current available in the battery pack. In other words, if the firmware is limiting the max current delivered to the motor, having a more capable battery might not help. However, if the firmware is basing its decisions on the battery voltage, the Molicels should be a very nice upgrade.

@dycus… have you noticed any difference? Do the new packs actually increase the thrust? How bad is the range penalty?

I too am on the please-notify list when the $1k Molicel packs are in stock at eWheels, but am also waiting to commit.

I'm unfortunately not in a good position to really review the difference between the stock packs and the Molicels. By the time I swapped the packs I was only just learning to push the S18 to the edge, so I never really saw the limitations of the stock battery. I feel like it's a little zippier than stock but like I said, I don't know the stock behavior well enough to really compare.

If we meet at a group ride or something I'd be happy to let people hop on and give it a go.

I did do a range test yesterday actually. Probably 50/50 off-road and paved. Was going about 25mph on the pavement, slower off-road but I did go up a few hills, through some sandy areas, and off some jumps. I was not being gentle with the wheel, I was pushing it pretty good.

I got 24.8 miles, ending at 66.0V and a reported 16% battery. EUC World said I had an average consumption of 33.7 Wh/mi.
With street-only riding I usually get 30 miles. I want to try a range test under those conditions and see how it does. The range reduction so far seems slightly less than expected compared to the direct 18% reduction in battery capacity.

[Paul A]

Maybe take a picture of the sticker and print it.

Printable sticker paper available.

Or maybe email the picture to a print shop that will print and cut it onto sticker paper.

It is a great sticker.

 

[Tawpie]

haha, that would certainly work. But I have a personal thing about copyrights, so I can't go there. I did ask if the creator would make another run of them… nope. So at least for me, it's the only one.

[kiitick]

3 hours ago, enaon said:

the 16x is 6p 

1554 Wh (6p x 3500 mAh, 18650)

ok, 6p at 10 amps, 60 amp max continuous draw.  3p at 30 amps, 90 amp  max continuous draw.  It's still SIGNIFICANTLY higher.  Even if you use peak draw, which is 20 amps on the 18650's, you're peak is still 120, which will be the SAME as 3p at 40 amps.  The big difference is 50% more amperage just available.

Sorry to rant, but I think it's VERY important in high power electric motors.

 

@Tawpie

Just ask him for permission to make another one.  If you've got his contact info.  I understand him not wanting to do another run, but you could get written consent to make another as long as you don't resell it 

Edited May 18, 2022 by kiitick

[enaon]

2 hours ago, kiitick said:

Sorry to rant, but I think it's VERY important in high power electric motors.

 

sure, but don't expect to draw 90 amps from the s18 I think

Mine has 4p, yes it holds power for more, less voltage sag, but unless the firmware is also different you wont see a huge difference. 

 

Also, keep in mind that some  of s18's come with the Samsung 50g, not the lg 50t you used on your calculations. 

Edited May 18, 2022 by enaon

[Eucner]

8 hours ago, Tawpie said:

But I have a personal thing about copyrights, so I can't go there.

The copyright laws are for commercial use. You can make as many copies as you wish for your own use.

[toe]

11 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Problem is, I really should sell it if and when the S22 ever arrives. I should, but I don't want to... the guy I bought it from put the best (no longer in print) sticker on it, and it has the only set of Fish pedals on the planet. And I like riding it, I just need more range.

Does he no longer make these pedals? I've tried contacting him a few times for MCM5v2 inserts, but he's never responded.

I have a set of S18 Fish pedals btw, so you're not the only one. 

[Paul A]

Not just on a sticker.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Paul A

[Ksmack]

I just got a new Molicel version of the S18 from ewheels. The good news is that I have yet to experience any voltage sag. That includes going up steep mountain bike paths and accelerating hard with less than 10% battery left. I have t done a range test, but based on the riding I’ve done I expect to be between 30-40 miles of range (190 lbs with gear). The acceleration is smooth and feels similar to the 16X, and the torquiness is similar (but less). However the torque feels the same at low battery as at high battery levels. On a full charge the battery voltage reaches 83.4V. Not sure if this is the correct full voltage. Darkness bit and the Kingsong app give wildest different battery percentages remaking, and I’m not sure which one is correct (I adjusted the pack size in Darkness Bot to 905WH).

Setting up the suspension is annoying. To get the sag right I ended up just following MTB shock procedures. Using the Kingsong block method I kept getting the upper chamber pressure wrong. I’m using an extender valve at 90 degrees to pump the upper chamber as a temporary fix. I’ve ordered a shock pump with a swivel valve so I can directly pump the upper chamber without needing the extension. My sag is still at about 15 mm (I measure the full deflated travel length to be about 43mm), and I’m not bottoming out anymore. I’m using 200-210 in the upper chamber and about 100-120 in the lower chamber (not sure the actual values because of the pressure loss while disconnecting. 
 

The linkage action isn’t smooth, so I’m going to try some of the simple fixes to try and improve that. 

[Tawpie]

15 hours ago, toe said:

Does he no longer make these pedals? I've tried contacting him a few times for MCM5v2 inserts, but he's never responded.

I don't know if he's gotten out of the pedal business or not. Murland is sort of a local, and the guy I bought the S18 from had asked him to make a set. But they were so difficult to make that Murland swore "never again"—obviously changed his mind!

You might check with Chris Chaput abec11@gmail.com for your mcm5, he makes spiked inserts for most wheels.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Tawpie

[kiitick]

Just a quick 2 miles on the s18...it's still locked down until I travel farther.  I was able to pull 28 amps slightly accelerating up a hill. That was my peak current today.  I can understand how folks could overpower this wheel.  With the standard battery setup, that's really hitting the top end of the discharge.  With the molicel, there was no detectable voltage dip even drawing 28 amps.  Can't wait to get it charged and dialed in.  I can say that it for sure feels much more zippy than an OG s18, and I was running at 27% battery, no charge put into it yet.

[enaon]

30 minutes ago, kiitick said:

With the molicel, there was no detectable voltage dip even drawing 28 amps.

Some s18's that I have opened up had the  samsung 50G inside, if using 30 amps the difference in voltage shag between SE and OG should be small, almost none if under 50%.

if you are using EUC World and the battery meter to observe battery drop, keep in mind that there is some buffering done by the app. When you get confident and if you get some time, please upload a usage log under stress. 

Edited May 19, 2022 by enaon

[kiitick]

For sure. Today was mostly about spiking my pedals, and fiddling with suspension. I won't have any hard data for a few days, stupid lock on king song wheels. Anyone know how many miles it takes to unlock? 

[Paul A]

https://support.mykingsong.com/article/179-king-song-s18-user-manual

King Song S18 Electric Unicycle User Manual

Model: KS-S18

Top Speed: Can reach up to 50kmph (31mph)

• Top speed is limited for the first 10 kilo miles, but faster speeds can be unlocked in the mobile app once this mileage is reached. 

[Tawpie]

9 hours ago, Paul A said:

Top speed is limited for the first 10 kilo miles

Evidently, I still have quite some distance to cover before I unlock top speed. I hope there's a badge.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Tawpie

[Paul A]

Mmmm, yes, 10k miles seems a bit excessive.

KS might need a better translation service.

[dycus]

Did a street-only range test with the Moicels today.

28.3mi, ending at 5% battery and 64.0V. 28.7 Wh/mi, average speed 18.9mph. When I hit 24.8mi I had 32% battery instead of 16% like with the previous test.

The range hit is definitely noticeable, but not too drastic, I'd say. I've never run the wheel this low on battery.