King Song S18 Discussion

[Flying W]

I haven't tried a suspension wheel yet but I get more knee pain if I can't ride at least 3 times a week. 

I have a messed up right knee and it's felt so much better since I started riding wheels. 

[Ro.man]

For me it's not that much for knees, as for back, suspension helps a lot for example if you don't notice a bump.

[Tawpie]

On 9/11/2021 at 8:39 PM, WillCO said:

Trying to figure out why honeycomb/aftermarket pedals are so scarce for this wheel....

I just took possession of an S18 that is fitted with one-of-a-kind pedal inserts made by Murland Fish. He makes inserts for most wheels, but I'm told the S18 was so difficult to make he swore he'd never make another set. They are flat out amazing, and it's too bad I have the only set but perhaps there's a reason we don't see many choices.

On my 16X (also basically impossible to get hex pedals for), I use studded grip tape meant for snowy/icy stairs. It works extremely well and if my S18 didn't already have the problem solved, I would have been very happy to put it on. Snow and mud don't pack onto the pedal, something about the material they use makes it just slide off.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Tawpie

[Asphalt]

On 10/16/2021 at 10:37 AM, Paulo Mesquita said:

Yep. Not my cup of tea. 18"wheels and suspensions just don't cut it for me. I still liked the S18 better than the V11, though. 

The suspension, in no way improved my knee and foot pain when riding a lot. Not worth the hassle. Actually the 16x, being a harder wheel... causes less pain. Go figure it... 

Here's a theory that might help your knee pain.

I was developing knee and foot pain when I switched to a wheel with a more aggressive pedal angle, causing my feet to be in an over-pronated position. Switching to a third-party pedal with adjustable angle, allowed me to flatten the angle to a more neutral position. Kingsong tends to have a less aggressive pedal angle than other manufacturers, so perhaps that's the reason you prefer the 16X and S18?

Changing footwear from an elevated heel to a zero-lift heel also helped a lot.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Asphalt
Removed duplicate content.

[Paulo Mesquita]

1 hour ago, Asphalt said:

Here's a theory that might help your knee pain.

I was developing knee and foot pain when I switched to a wheel with a more aggressive pedal angle, causing my feet to be in an over-pronated position. Switching to a third-party pedal with adjustable angle, allowed me to flatten the angle to a more neutral position. Kingsong tends to have a less aggressive pedal angle than other manufacturers, so perhaps that's the reason you prefer the 16X and S18?

Changing footwear from an elevated heel to a zero-lift heel also helped a lot.

Here's a theory that might help your knee pain.

I was developing knee and foot pain when I switched to a wheel with a more aggressive pedal angle, causing my feet to be in an over-pronated position. Switching to a third-party pedal with adjustable angle, allowed me to flatten the angle to a more neutral position. Kingsong tends to have a less aggressive pedal angle than other manufacturers, so perhaps that's the reason you prefer the 16X and S18?

Changing footwear from an elevated heel to a zero-lift heel also helped a lot.

Thanks for the tips. My foot pain has to do with Palmar Fascitis and I solved it with gel insoles and a very good and cushioned pair of trekker tennis shoes (didn't know the brand). The knee pain has only to do with my weight that I have to cut down 😁😁😁

[Paulo Mesquita]

10 hours ago, Tawpie said:

I just took possession of an S18 that is fitted with one-of-a-kind pedal inserts made by Murland Fish. He makes inserts for most wheels, but I'm told the S18 was so difficult to make he swore he'd never make another set. They are flat out amazing, and it's too bad I have the only set but perhaps there's a reason we don't see many choices.

On my 16X (also basically impossible to get hex pedals for), I use studded grip tape meant for snowy/icy stairs. It works extremely well and if my S18 didn't already have the problem solved, I would have been very happy to put it on. Snow and mud don't pack onto the pedal, something about the material they use makes it just slide off.

Why is it so difficult to get hex pedals for the 16x? Can you show me the ones that do fit with the 16x?

[Tawpie]

@Paulo Mesquita every now and then Hextech pedals are available for the 16X. I waited for 4 months before I was told they were in stock, but then waited another month for an order to be acknowledged. It was never acknowledged, and I decided I was going to go for the S20 so I cancelled my order. I still use my ugly but highly effective studded grip tape. To order, you must message them on Telegram (I think I used @Val9ri). they were 220USD with shipping extra.

One last thing on the Hextech pedals, they are oh so sexy, but I think you have to drill a hole in each side of the shell somewhere. I'm not certain about that, but did read it somewhere.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Tawpie

[AtlasP]

On 10/17/2021 at 6:07 AM, Asphalt said:

I was developing knee and foot pain when I switched to a wheel with a more aggressive pedal angle, causing my feet to be in an over-pronated position. Switching to a third-party pedal with adjustable angle, allowed me to flatten the angle to a more neutral position. Kingsong tends to have a less aggressive pedal angle than other manufacturers, so perhaps that's the reason you prefer the 16X and S18?

This 1000%.

As a dance professional with some knowledge about knees/ankles/feet and the consequences of various stances, the extreme pedal angles are absolutely terrible for everyone. Even for those that say it's not a problem for them or that they like a more extreme pedal angle, there's still a likelihood of longer term consequences as a result of the types of stresses produced by such a stance.

I understand the benefit of some pedal angle but the Begode wheels take it too far, whereas both the King Song and InMotion wheels have a far more reasonable amount and are therefore likely much better for your knees/ankles/feet. (Unless one gets into aftermarket pedals and/or mod'ed pedals to mitigate.)

Edited October 23, 2021 by AtlasP

[WillCO]

Just for data points... 

https://euc.world/tour/603284842552022

Rode almost 40 miles today, started with 100% charge, ended around 6%

I'm 240# geared up, 6'2".

No wind, plenty of hills but no major climbs. 90% paved, 10% dirt/gravel trails.

Wheel worked perfect, and gave me my first ever tilt back around 30 miles into the ride. Caught me by surprise, but I'd read enough here to know what to expect, and it combo'd with a warning beep. Very gentle tilt, at which point I slowed slightly and it resumed normal ops, albeit slower... basically a good warning and a non-issue. 

I find myself rather surprised it went 40 miles! (and that I went 40 miles!) 

Just thought I'd share in case there's another sasquatch wondering how far these will go! 

Edited October 22, 2021 by WillCO

[WillCO]

Question regarding the 8 small plastic "wipers/dust covers" that go on top of and below the grey sliders...how does everyone keep those in place?  Silicone, loctite, chewing gum and bailing wire?
I took the wheel all the way apart, cleaned up the bearing pockets and installed new bearings/shims (added the additional 2 bearings at the top pivots), fixed a pivot issue in the lower shock (gently removed material from the pass-through shaft that the shock bushing rides on until it rotated freely), then re-installed everything (so nice to have @Rehab1, @Feynman, @fbhb and all the others' info here to work from!).  Replaced all the steel phillips screws w/ stainless allen-head screws (all the machine thread ones).

In my haste to get a test ride in, I left off the lower 4 dust covers, and forgot to figure out how to secure the upper ones.

On the plus side, it's a batch 3 (2021) wheel, so no nasty lock washers, just nice thin SS shims at the suspension pivot points.  The bearing pockets were painted before bearing install, took a bit to get them (carefully) shiny for the new bearings.  I think the hardest part was getting the suspension to stay silky smooth after tightening down the axle bolts.  Lots of trial-and-error until it worked smoothly.

Either way, what's the good stuff for those dust covers?

Thanks!

(Going to wait on the 4 covers I forgot 'till my TR1 gets here next week, then pull it partway down for the tire and re-install them).

[fbhb]

4 minutes ago, WillCO said:

Question regarding the 8 small plastic "wipers/dust covers" that go on top of and below the grey sliders...how does everyone keep those in place?  Silicone, loctite, chewing gum and bailing wire?

@WillCO, when I carried out my Full Strip down and suspension overhaul, I carefully removed the wipers/dust covers, removed and cleaned off the "token" amount of adhesive that King Song used, then applied isopropyl alcohol around All of the recesses before using Loctite 401 to re-glue back in place!

I have approx. 4,500kms on my S18 so far with absolutely No signs of the "wipers/dust covers" coming loose or moving in the slightest, since my overhaul/re-build 12 months ago.

  

[WillCO]

10 minutes ago, fbhb said:

@WillCO, when I carried out my Full Strip down and suspension overhaul, I carefully removed the wipers/dust covers, removed and cleaned off the "token" amount of adhesive that King Song used, then applied isopropyl alcohol around All of the recesses before using Loctite 401 to re-glue back in place!

I have approx. 4,500kms on my S18 so far with absolutely No signs of the "wipers/dust covers" coming loose or moving in the slightest, since my overhaul/re-build 12 months ago.

  

Very cool, glad they're staying put!  I'll pick up some 401 and stick them down (tho I'm going to cheat on the top 4, hoping not to pull it that far apart again in the near future).
Thank you sir!

[FinRider]

I 3D printed a couple of covers for the top sliders. Works like a charm!

 

[sbouju]

On 11/1/2021 at 10:48 AM, FinRider said:

I 3D printed a couple of covers for the top sliders. Works like a charm!

The role of these additional parts is simply to prevent the four original gaskets from going up along the tubes?

In my case, two of the four no longer stay in their normal places, but I don't know if that presents a real disadvantage ...

[OldFartRides]

They are dust/ dirt seals. Don’t want crap laying down in that recess scraping up the tubes.

[Tawpie]

On 11/1/2021 at 2:48 AM, FinRider said:

I 3D printed a couple of covers for the top sliders. Works like a charm!

Are these your own design? I'd like to be able to get a set if they are and you have shared the .stl!

[NErider]

I just super glued my dust seals. They have been fine for the last 10 months. 

[Flying W]

4 hours ago, NErider said:

I just super glued my dust seals. They have been fine for the last 10 months. 

I didn't even think of that haha, I did the Chooch method of packing the space with marine grease. It's messy but so far so good.

[OldFartRides]

Dunno bout that….grease attracts dirt like crazy.

 

[Flying W]

1 hour ago, OldFartRides said:

Dunno bout that….grease attracts dirt like crazy.

 

Yes it does! I've noticed that the putter layer is no longer able to hold any dust, it's as dusty as it can get now. There's so much grease under the dust layer that I doubt any dirt is working its way down there, far less than leaving the indentation where the bearing is pressed in (the place where people drill the holes). 

It will be a messy tire change 🤣

[enaon]

I recommend silicon spray for lubing, it helps keeps things clean, I use it to wash it

[OldFartRides]

Bought a used s18 recently off a forum member. Nice gently used wheel. Has spiked grip tape on the pedals. Little too much traction for my gentle street riding. Decided to swap them onto my “trail hardened” s18. 
Pins came out of all four pedals easily, which was nice, so I cleaned up all the bores with q-tips soaked with Fluid Film, cleaned and coated the pins with same, reassembled and feel confident I won’t be faced with stuck pins or set screws down the road.

Shared as a little reminder about preventative maintenance.

Best,

[OldFartRides]

I bought these awhile back and never installed. Decided I could use a little more grip on these, so I put in a row of five to start.

Its an 8-32 machine thread. Used an older bit just to get though the original grip tape, then switched to a sharp bit.

[NErider]

To update, since my wheel got repaired from the failed motor a few months ago, it has been working perfectly. I had to pump up my shock once. Probably since it has gotten so cold. 

The factory power pads from Ali Express have been a great mod also. I am just more careful laying it on its side. 

I really want a proper knobby tire like the TR1 but haven't ordered it from Japan Amazon yet. I wish there was a tire easier to get in the US. 

[OldFartRides]

Is it like this ?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/334027205360?epid=171190912&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item4dc592aaf0:g:ACUAAOSwZXdguZr8&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%2B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSprd4IgPv6LBzlteBBg9Pe1ZzY2LSIAbo8cfz5TZ%2FXANlBnL4IxlTqEeQ7RwGfd8p2FVU8LHwBHRqI0uCStXyjK1WYwWO8x4CFhsBWsVwm7CMDovlAzACjRgr0FzmrbmSByJLDPBzZjhLtyre9gkQE9WrMijckiepZ63%2B%2Fj8sUxaBUOBLuD9Jz7qOwPLuxrNEwNa5cz1xo%2BLQsd6QSnilow%2BG%2FIOnTUtUYaLBBY2lNUjd8XLk5UC%2B01mwYGpFCkjUqAt%2BDJgs2HA6ES3EpKlURBF%2By8j54%2FYvHMub17B%2BSjCUCfyjMK%2FIs4VlZhHDTPSyhSJmLIHVJSuMC%2FQcmUyWh2ywkeTxArX03cKrPUhqU4M8THNrhLK49sRMXY5oto8U%2B62uWNwxK9e%2FlNIar3hAF9kCWkGg7E2liC323dCqsL2oeM0%2B2JzNjb6SiZo0xXtPcz36nHnI2yTXgEZiXWbhdyGamAFVXB8dQo2CHhitsPs1duGmQMKo83YeALJxkz5RbYEYkN%2FnDGFar2rCZFdyP8kjPPUk4cviGYie2JyNs5ejmZHR62MpUYmG32oGQT%2BNGrXeIOUnFXqQT2SdiGn%2B%2BGc5AImH0BosQ8jduExEN2j2nh8ZJyzUErs9jIEk78NQSnmIavrl4gYf%2Fbf6yheCbmu1SKMd2uFCZpmKTl32w9jX7DYgUOLZbOFkYih77os8Cz%2B0WuAWHrNwqnG8Wu1zXbKz%2FYr8UiqMSUI83YQM9aC4V3b2RmtoZhPTdmLqcGl8Hz%2BFSa377coBPWLAwa7vya6KzljCUnC5094MG0papThHSlBe5IbwLag3Q94N5Tyv7lhR91Nm0zoRqw5Gc5vb0A%3D%3D|clp%3A2334524|tkp%3ABFBMpK2-2q9f