Laws for EUC in European countries

[ElectriQ User]

Hello!
Can you help me with some info?
In what countries from EU the EUC is legal and what are the rules for these?

Thank you!

[Chriull]

12 minutes ago, ElectriQ User said:

Hello!
Can you help me with some info?
In what countries from EU the EUC is legal and what are the rules for these?

Thank you!

Hi. Afaik in none really. Some like france allow it with some maximum design speed, but such EUCs are not available at the market. Beside some not recommendable airwheel clones...

But fortunately, as it seems this regulations are not enforced - so it seems safe to ride in france. In austria they are imho illegal, but accepted/ignored - did not hear of/experience any problems with the executive forces.

Germany and UK seem to enforce their laws and fine and confiscate EUCs.

No idea of practices in other countries.

[atdlzpae]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xgCTmNf7e2NzRWzMMsX19YQW9pGEMtPJM3KXfz19DZg

If you have some new info, please contribute. :-)

Edited January 16, 2020 by atdlzpae

[DjPanJan]

Here is Czech republic simplified law:

https://www.cspsd.cz/storage/files/osobni_prepravnik.pdf

use translator language is Czech

I make post about this : 

Personal container with self-balancing device /Osobní přepravník se samovyvažovacím zařízením
 

And the super simplified rules are:

1. Ride primarily on the sidewalk, maximum walking speed because you are a pedestrian in the Czech law (on EUC).
2. on the EUC bike path = bicycle
3. You have to/can drive on the left side of the road because you are a pedestrian.
4. You can enter the one-way street because you are a pedestrian.
max speed is "walking speed (not defined by number)" on footpath

25km/h bike path 

50km/h road in city 

When you pass a pedestrian you must not exceed the speed of his walking, not as I see it in a video from some people here passing pedestrians at close range and high speeds. It is against the law and moreover, there is enough aggressive people in the east of Europe who will fight with you also because of trifles and special sort of people are the owners of dogs.
That's why I ride with a 21-inch cast iron telescopic baton. In the last 2 months I have used it three times 2x hit people(both drunk and agresive) 1x hit dog (always self protection). And X times to calm the situation or negotiate respect. Here is not the USA people are not armed with pistols but fists and knives.

[null]

Interesting question for a long distance trip.

France legalised PEVs recently, but as @Chriull said: speed limite excludes all, but never enforced. (just behave reasonably)
The most important IMO is having an insurance that doesn't exclude your wheel (you are legally obliged), or not having a people accident (countryside?)

I have considered traveling upward Europe, but AFAIK Netherland is verboten and Germany will enforce their 20Km/h limit and stupid rules so there is that. @meepmeepmayer havent been bothered it seems but he's countryside. Denmark is limited to 20/25 we'd need to confirm whether it is enforced. ( @Henrik Olsen ?)

edit: nice sheet @atdlzpae added some details.

Edited January 16, 2020 by null

[Meulebeest]

2 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xgCTmNf7e2NzRWzMMsX19YQW9pGEMtPJM3KXfz19DZg

If you have some new info, please contribute. :-)

Added Belgian Law.

[Mono]

On 1/16/2020 at 10:57 AM, Chriull said:

Some like france allow it with some maximum design speed, but such EUCs are not available at the market.

That doesn't sound right. For example, the InMotion V5 (and V5F, V5F+) has a maximum speed of 25km/h and AFAICS it should be perfectly legal in France and Belgium. Same for KS-14 M and I am almost sure this is not an exhaustive list.

Edited January 17, 2020 by Mono

[Grumly]

In France the recent law additions have integrated EUC among other personal transportation vehicles.

A short abstract of what I understood, if you spot any error feel free to quote and correct.

Speed

EUCs are authorized provided they are limited "by design" to 25km/h.

There is a subtelty here :

• riding a vehicle not limited by design is chargeable of a 5th class traffic ticket, up to 1500€ fine and seizure & destruction of the vehicle. If you get 2 5th class tickets within 3 years, it becomes an offense.
• riding a vehicle limited by design to 25kph is chargeable of a 4th class ticket, 135€

Enforcement seems to be pretty light right now, but it could depend of locations. I would not be surprised if EUC users in large cities such as Paris, Lyon, Marseille had more risk of actual enforcement controls. Those large cities have had bad buzz due to misbehavior of rental electric scooter users.

Yet the technical methods to verify in the field seem to raise quite a challenge...

Insurance

As a motor vehicule, you are bound to a mandatory insurance of any damage you may cause to goods and persons (exact term in english ?).

As far as french insurance companies are concerned, they are not allowed to cover offenses nor crimes, but they can still insure a driver getting traffic tickets.

Most insurance companies covering EUCs explicitly exclude any vehicule capable of over 45kph, as this is already the speed limit between light motorcycles and motorcycles.

Roads

 

EUCs are allowed in cycle lanes when present, city streets provided there is no cycle lane and the speed limit is not more than 50kph. So far, seems reasonable.

This is where the french law gets goofy : out of city boundaries, they are only allowed on cycle lanes/cycle roads when they are present. Other than that, they are forbidden out of cities.

They probably did this to avoid some mind deranged who would ride on roads with 90/80 heavy car/truck traffic (yet it is still legal to ride a bike there...).

But in doing so, they also excluded a huge mileage of small country roads where it's safe to ride.

Other

There are some other regulations, but they are mostly common sense : have lights and a reflecting jacket by night, only one person by vehicle...

 

[atdlzpae]

@Grumly

 

So when visiting France:
- I have to first go by foot (like plebs) to an insurer
- Learn French to be able to read the contract (so that I don't accidentally sell my kidney)
- Then and only then I'd be able to legally ride on the streets/bicycle lanes
Much hassle for a few days visit...

But it doesn't matter anyway, since MSX is capable of more than 45km/h if someone feels suicidal... And so no insurer would insure it...
How do you French people do it? Do you follow this absurdity or just ignore it?

35 minutes ago, Grumly said:

They probably did this to avoid some mind deranged who would ride on roads with 90/80 heavy car/truck traffic (yet it is still legal to ride a bike there...).

And I'd wager that walking on that same road is both more dangerous and legal...

Edited January 17, 2020 by atdlzpae

[null]

@atdlzpae

Just a few points of consideration: 

You could maybe find an insured EUC locally, borrow or rent.
My EUC insurance says "valid in these countries" (long list) like car insurances does. Maybe you could have a Russian insurance valid for France?

As for going over 25Km/h: The insurers can insure whatever they like as long as you pay for it, some do not require to be street legal. Wheither they would pull that up later on to weasel out of reimbursment have not been tested yet. Some insurers clearly state they accept vehicles up to 45Km/h, some (mine) don't mention speed..

[Grumly]

46 minutes ago, atdlzpae said:

So when visiting France:

Depends, if you have an insurance from home that covers you in other countries. Here most vehicle insurances cover for all EU countries, unless specified otherwise. You might have the same with a national insurer from where you live.

But as a matter of fact, EUC legislation is far to be as mature as it is for cars.

49 minutes ago, atdlzpae said:

But it doesn't matter anyway, since MSX is capable of more than 45km/h if someone feels suicidal... And so no insurer would insure it...
How do you French people do it? Do you follow this absurdity or just ignore it?

French owners of MSX have that issue insuring it here. French documentation states the wheel is limited to 45kph, which makes it acceptable. Yet everyone knows it is over it... a fuzzy matter.

50 minutes ago, atdlzpae said:

And I'd wager that walking on that same road is both more dangerous and legal...

Same as I pointed out, you can bike on the very same roads.

[Daley1]

Wow @DjPanJan,what a world u r living in.Fighting off dogs,people and for respect from aggressive people whilst trying to have fun on your EUC. You r the Mad Max of Europe and extreme to say the least.Invest in good body armour with a full face helmet and give em hell.Oh and be careful out there.Safe riding

[lirva]

 

In Finland walking lanes max 15km/h, bike paths have bicycle rules, max 25km/h. You should have insurance on bicycles with throttle.

One time police followed me on bikepath for a while after going away, didn't asked any questions. Havent heard any negative comments on fellow commuters.

No need to carry any weapons 

Edited January 18, 2020 by lirva

[atdlzpae]

So basically everyone riding an EUC in Finland is breaking the law.

[DjPanJan]

7 hours ago, Daley1 said:

Wow @DjPanJan,what a world u r living in.Fighting off dogs,people and for respect from aggressive people whilst trying to have fun on your EUC. You r the Mad Max of Europe and extreme to say the least.Invest in good body armour with a full face helmet and give em hell.Oh and be careful out there.Safe riding

You need to know the context to understand it.
I live in one of the poorest regions of our country.
30% of citizens have total distraint on all property.
Socially weak and drug and alcohol addicts.
I am in the region with the highest unemployment.
A healthy man who works here (in a good job, for example, por hyundai) has a salary of around € 650 a month.
You will never understand the working poverty when you work and you are just as poor, you pay housing food fees and you have about 150 Euros a month for hobbies and interests.

It is not possible to live a "normal" European life here.
Therefore, there is such an atmosphere full of envy of stress and hatred against anyone who has more property.

I am lucky that my parents raised me not to take drugs and drink no alcohol or smoke cigarettes, I work in a family business I can limit and save money so my wage and social situation is on the level of the capital where the situation is very good.

I stay in the region for my parents to look after them in old age. When you live in such conditions, the incidents are logically more frequent and the "rich" at the EUC for X thousand euros simply annoys people here.

Everybody owns his happiness. For example, it is common for someone to scratch a new car with a metal coin of envy and awkwardness.
I think every country in the world has better and worse regions and places of a city or part of cities that could be called "NOGO ZONE" for tourists and mothers with children.
I do not want to discourage you from visiting the Czech Republic in tourism it is a beautiful country with cheap drugs and prostitutes and services.Where is legal alcohol from 18 years.

In addition, people do not understand that I have to ride the sidewalk that they bothers really do not know the legislation that tells me that I have to ride the sidewalk. They'd rather kick me.

Back to the topic:

I got an answer from the headquarters of the traffic police of the Czech Republic where I asked. Since it is not determined how much you can drive on the EUC on the sidewalk and is it so here is a vague legal provision "maximum speed of walking" and I asked what speed of walking? child? adult? athletes? If I can run on the pavement and sprint, can I go at the speed of "running" on the EUC along the pavement?
Answer: "maximum speed of walking" so the police do not know, it is said to assess a particular policeman in a specific situation. If there was a collision with a pedestrian, I would automatically be taken as the perpetrator, even if it was his intention and done it on purpose.

Edited January 18, 2020 by DjPanJan
edit

[Eko]

Hi, it's a lot of time since the last time I've been here,I mean in the Euc forum, in the meantime in my country's arrived a new street-code banning the Eucs that can be 'driven' only in pedestrian space at the MAX SPEED OF 6 KMH (3,7 Mph).  Simply Ridiculous.   Obviously nobody will ride eucs at those unacceptable conditions.  

In Italy lately only e-scooters has been .."equalized" to bicycles and they can run at the max speed of 20Kmh on cycle-paths. 

In the last year I travelled abroad for several months, mainly in Austria (Wien), Salzburg, Praha, Amsterdam, Rotterdham and I saw only 3 EUCS in all those months around the streets:  2 inmotion, a V8 in Salzburg a v10f in Wien and one (unidentified, maybe a Gotway) in Amsterdam.   On the contrary, in the austrian capital city there was A LOT of e-scooters, whole families riding them and many parked outside even in the sidewalks. In Amsterdam thousands of bikes everywhere.

Now I will write something about it in the interesting topic related to the active Eucists, here in the general section of the forum. 

[mrelwood]

 

18 hours ago, lirva said:

In Finland walking lanes max 15km/h, bike paths have bicycle rules, max 25km/h.

 

15 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

So basically everyone riding an EUC in Finland is breaking the law.

Yes. I’ve had several encounters where the police could’ve stopped me. But I think most officers are not familiar with the fairly recent PEV/PLEV law. And I of course rode with consideration and care, so I could not be seen as obviously dangering anything, and I hope that I seem as I’d know the legistlation myself. And I do keep it under 25km/h when police are around.

But since the law doesn’t seem to be enforced strictly, I’d say that the situation for riders in Finland is fair. Quite a lot of bike paths even downtown, and cyclists or others don’t seem to get angry or annoyed at me. Besides, the best places to ride are secluded off-road paths anyway... 

[travsformation]

On 1/16/2020 at 11:05 AM, atdlzpae said:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xgCTmNf7e2NzRWzMMsX19YQW9pGEMtPJM3KXfz19DZg

If you have some new info, please contribute. :-)

Added Spain:

Pending national legislation, there's currently only a directive informing law enforcement how to proceed, but fines wouldn't hold up in a court of law since there's no legislation to back them. When approved, though, PEVs limited to 25 km/h will be deemed vehicles and allowed to ride only on roads--not on sidewalk or bike lanes. What will happen with wheel's whose max. speed exceed 25 km/h is uncertain: either illegality or will be treated as a small scooter requiring a license plate and driving license. But for now, not strictly enforced, only in large cities. Municipalities can pass their own local laws that contradict country-wide ones, so in short, a mess.

Edited January 19, 2020 by travsformation

[Eko]

6 hours ago, travsformation said:

Added Spain:

Pending national legislation, there's currently only a directive informing law enforcement how to proceed, but fines wouldn't hold up in a court of law since there's no legislation to back them. When approved, though, PEVs limited to 25 km/h will be deemed vehicles and allowed to ride only on roads--not on sidewalk or bike lanes. What will happen with wheel's whose max. speed exceed 25 km/h is uncertain: either illegality or will be treated as a small scooter requiring a license plate and driving license. But for now, not strictly enforced, only in large cities. Municipalities can pass their own local laws that contradict country-wide ones, so in short, a mess.

This would be more than ridiculous, at least in many european countries, where all cars do NOT have any max. speed limit even if the fastest one allowed (in freeways) is 150Kmh (for ex. here in Italy)

I think you should only have a limited selected ride-shape with an automatic block at the related max. speed allowed in definite areas. Otherwise it would be unfair discrimination between different motorized vehicles (electric or not), allowing only the MOST DANGEROUS to not have any limitation about it and forbidding the smallest "weakest" and super-ecofriendly ones.  

[travsformation]

3 hours ago, Eko said:

This would be more than ridiculous, at least in many european countries, where all cars do NOT have any max. speed limit even if the fastest one allowed (in freeways) is 150Kmh (for ex. here in Italy)

I think you should only have a limited selected ride-shape with an automatic block at the related max. speed allowed in definite areas. Otherwise it would be unfair discrimination between different motorized vehicles (electric or not), allowing only the MOST DANGEROUS to not have any limitation about it and forbidding the smallest "weakest" and super-ecofriendly ones.  

Ridiculous or not, fair or not, that's Spanish bureaucracy for you...

Towns and cities can put their own municipal regulations in place regarding riding on the sidewalk and bike lanes, but anywhere where there's no regulation, country-wide laws apply, so it'll soon be illegal to ride even on bike lanes in most of the country, regardless of the wheel's top speed. This also applies to escooters...so imagine, they're about to force all escooters to ride on the road...it's a disaster waiting to happen...

The good thing is that outside large cities, enforcement is either lax or non-existing...

[Scubadragonsan]

Come to San Francisco, we have some of the best trails and bicycle routes open to EUCs. Our governor in 2015 signed a bill AB604 allowing EUCs to be used on sidewalks. With or without the bill, our police never bother us. Interestingly, EUCs fall into the category of "Electrically motorized boards". I am a senior and I can exercise my ADA Title 3 to be on any trail. However, with these regulations on our side, where can one rent wheels??? Get in touch with Nevin at www.tec-toyz.com

AB604: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB604

ADA Title 3: https://www.ada.gov/ada_title_III.htm

 

 

 

 

[Grumly]

On 1/19/2020 at 11:40 AM, travsformation said:

Municipalities can pass their own local laws that contradict country-wide ones, so in short, a mess.

I forgot that one, too. Same in France. For example, a city might prohibit EUCs from its cycling lanes and force them (at 25km/h) into the general vehicle lanes, to the greater misunderstanding of car drivers (why the hell is that looney riding here while there is a cycle lane ???).

See, @atdlzpae, no need to be travelling to France from abroad to be in a mess if you want to be completely law abiding

Even while commuting, you can get a whole load of fun. Strictly speaking, if you ride through 4 different cities, you would have to check municipal bulletins from all 4. Which are in most cases not online, only displayed on paper in the town halls. Maybe they will answer to e-mails, if they understand your question (a electric what ???).

Legislators are far far away from everybody's daily life and concerns... after all, they spend a lot of time in the capital and have their travel expenses cared for by the tax payer...

Thankfully, police are ordinary people and they have some higher priorities than tracking a few weirdos on their strange vehicles, as long as they don't stir public order. Let our numbers increase, and the number of misbehaving people (polite term) statistically present in every population grow above detection threshold, and this might change. Let's hope law has evolved to a better understanding of our usages by then.

[atdlzpae]

3 minutes ago, Grumly said:

Which are in most cases not online, only displayed on paper in the town halls.

Oh, yeah. And they are in french.

[Grumly]

4 minutes ago, atdlzpae said:

Oh, yeah. And they are in french.

You are quibbling, this is not an actual issue since nobody is going come see them

[Tazarinho]

On 1/16/2020 at 11:05 AM, atdlzpae said:

If you have some new info, please contribute. :-)

Added Luxemburg