winterwheel Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) I'm scheduled to do an interview with TV news folk tomorrow about winter commuting on EUC. I'd love to have any kind of ballpark numbers for how many people are riding these things in North America and/or worldwide (not just winter, but all in). If anyone has any ideas or knows of any resources to work this out before tomorrow at lunch time that would be much appreciated. I'd like to present this as a rapidly growing sport and having a number or two to back it up would be really helpful. Edited January 15, 2020 by winterwheel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Counting (running number): 1 Sorry, couldn’t resist. I would hope that @Jason McNeil could share some thoughts of a ballpark of a number. That might be closest to reality you can get. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterwheel Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) So far I have a ballpark number of 100,000 globally. That seems like a lot, but there are many places that have vastly more riders than Edmonton or even Canada. Counting China it's easy to image that number being reasonable. For North America my gut tells me there would be around 3-5k of us, but I have no way to support that number. Edited January 15, 2020 by winterwheel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Han Vo Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 God I miss edmonton. Spent my 20s there and had a blast. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterwheel Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 It's still here if you ever want to come up for a visit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aneta Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 100K?! No way. Sports/hobbies with 100K participants have extensive infrastructure, with professional organizations, rules, many manufacturers, service centers, big events, etc. If we estimate the cost of each hoverwheel $1000, 100K would mean a $100M industry. No way these garage shops (KS, GW, IM - ok, large garage shops, but garage by virtue nevertheless) with neanderthal level of engineering represent a $100M industry. With just one distributor in each huge region. (ewheels, speedyfeet, somethingwerks, ecodrift). I'd say, 5-10K worldwide tops. Also, the sport might be shrinking, not "rapidly growing". Just read the forum from ca. 2015 - there was a lot of participants and a lot of enthusiasm those days; where are they now? Lost interest? Got injured? Who knows. Only a handful remain active since then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterwheel Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 Boy you sure are negative. Anywho, you are just throwing numbers around, which I can do equally well. The 100K number comes from the wheel manufacturers, and if anyone is going to have a handle on it its them. Also, it may not be growing rapidly in your neighborhood, but it is definitely growing rapidly in mine. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post UniVehje Posted January 15, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) On 1/15/2020 at 6:25 AM, Aneta said: there was a lot of participants and a lot of enthusiasm those days; where are they now? Lost interest? Got injured? Who knows. Only a handful remain active since then. I think most of them got bored when the forum started to turn into brand vs. brand wars. Happened when more and more people came to ask what wheel they should buy. We even had an idiot some time ago jumping into controversial conclusions and then praising himself with fake accounts. Can you imagine? Anyway, the forum membership is already about 11 000. 100 000 riders would be maybe 30M / year industry as not everyone buys a new wheel yearly. This forum doesn’t represent an average EUC rider. Edited January 16, 2020 by UniVehje 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meulebeest Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Would EUC.World ( @Seba ) be representative for the geographical dispersion (not the number / amount of riders) ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atdlzpae Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) @Meulebeest It should be fairly representative for the West. But I doubt that many people use it in China, especially since it's only available through Google Play (which is banned in China). Also, there are some bastards like me who don't bother setting an EUC.World account... And I think that's a majority. Edited January 15, 2020 by atdlzpae 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Seba Posted January 15, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 15, 2020 51 minutes ago, Meulebeest said: Would EUC.World ( @Seba ) be representative for the geographical dispersion (not the number / amount of riders) ? First - EUC World database isn't in any way a representative source of information. Many users simply doesn't use tour tracking feature. I also doesn't collect any address information for users. So I can only make a simple statistics about count of tours we're started in which country and sum of kilometers of tours started in particular country. And here it is: By number of tours By number of kilometers Country Tours # Country Kilometers United States of America 3134 1 France 50514.892 France 2793 2 USA 35214.443 Poland 1819 3 Poland 24555.111 Great Britain 814 4 Great Britain 20013.308 Czech Republic 713 5 Austria 8407.026 Austria 634 6 Spain 7202.104 Sweden 634 7 Sweden 6894.324 Brasil 594 8 Czech Republic 5721.368 Spain 468 9 Italy 4551.090 Norway 458 10 Brasil 4216.332 Russia 434 11 Russia 3599.558 Singapore 352 12 Germany 3543.211 Canada 342 13 Norway 3321.939 Italy 331 14 Singapore 2652.244 Uruguay 287 15 Urugay 2648.617 Germany 233 16 Canada 2404.687 Ukraine 231 17 Portugal 1790.223 Belarus 149 18 Ukraine 1518.118 Portugal 145 19 Belgium 1512.623 Australia 126 20 Belarus 1314.026 Belgium 117 21 Australia 1177.220 Luxembourg 80 22 Netherlands 998.553 Japan 77 23 Luxembourg 835.086 Romania 55 24 New Zealand 673.372 Netherlands 52 25 Ireland 463.935 Hungary 42 26 Denmark 406.009 Thailand 41 27 Romania 400.263 Denmark 34 28 Japan 396.285 Estonia 34 29 Lithuania 393.598 Ireland 33 30 Hungary 332.774 Latvia 31 31 Greece 260.816 Greece 26 32 Estonia 250.954 New Zealand 24 33 Thailand 230.363 Finland 21 34 Chile 204.720 Chile 21 35 China 127.634 Lithuania 21 36 Finland 108.998 China 15 37 Switzerland 87.488 Slovakia 14 38 Latvia 84.244 Switzerland 11 39 Slovakia 72.482 Malaysia 7 40 Bosnia and Herzegovina 52.452 Bulgaria 6 41 Croatia 32.302 Cambodia 5 42 Malaysia 24.908 Croatia 4 43 Slovenia 22.096 Bosnia and Herzegovina 3 44 Cambodia 19.452 United Arab Emirates 2 45 Bulgaria 18.151 Kazakhstan 2 46 United Arab Emirates 13.692 Indonesia 1 47 Kazakhstan 11.953 Viet Nam 1 48 Vatican 11.583 Vatican 1 49 Andorra 1.206 Andorra 1 50 Indonesia 0.024 Slovenia 1 51 Viet Nam 0.004 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Wow GB is No4. I'm really surprised but also very pleased with that. Much more than I thought especially given eucs are illegal here. We might have enough interest to help with legal pressure, unless the majority of those km's are by one rider lol. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..... Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) Hell, 100k sounds possible. I would word any statements i made about that, carefully. I'd cite what the wheel people say. Of course they dont really know either, but at least youll have a scapegoat. At the very least, you can count me as #2 in USA for sure, in print, right here, along with mrelwood who also claims to ride... Kinda late to spring that one on us for an answer tomorrow. Of course, even the guys who are in the 'know', seem to be unsure. Man i love doing things that have no REAL registration and tracking! The amount of riders in my hood, just went up by 1000%, from none to one! Talk about an increase! Edited January 15, 2020 by ShanesPlanet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seba Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 59 minutes ago, Planemo said: Wow GB is No4. I'm really surprised but also very pleased with that. Much more than I thought especially given eucs are illegal here. We might have enough interest to help with legal pressure, unless the majority of those km's are by one rider lol. Certailny @KAY GEE is a major contributor to UK result I can say that because he doesn't bother to hide his tours and almost everyday you can notice a red EUC rider symbol on the euc.world map 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazarinho Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 If 100K is the number of wheels sold, the actual number of users will be less, since many of us have more than wheel. Other riders might have stopped altogether. Belgium wheelers has 787 members on facebook, but includes a number of other electric rideables, and we are a small country. I actually sometimes suspect we might have the highest percentage of wheelers per population. Wheelers ; The Wheelers/ EUC international has 4643 members. Those are just people that have a facebook page and were interested enough to join a group. My guess would be around 70K worldwide, if we assume that a quarter of the wheelers have two or more wheels. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RockyTop Posted January 15, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 15, 2020 I own four wheels. We have five people that ride them. Four of them will not show up in your search net because they did not buy them they don’t use apps or post in forums. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mono Posted January 15, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, Aneta said: 100K?! No way. Sports/hobbies with 100K participants have extensive infrastructure, with professional organizations, rules, many manufacturers, service centers, big events, etc. There is no EUCing competitive sports and for many EUCers the sportive aspect is not even relevant. Cycling is a sport, but a large part of the cycling industry has nothing to do with it, for example building electric bicycles. I know, that's not how North Americans understand cycling... The electric bicycle market has a volume of $20 billion per year without a sports behind. 100M over 5 years would be 0.1% share of this market. That seems somewhat in the right ballpark. Quote If we estimate the cost of each hoverwheel $1000, 100K would mean a $100M industry. No way these garage shops (KS, GW, IM - ok, large garage shops, but garage by virtue nevertheless) with neanderthal level of engineering represent a $100M industry. With just one distributor in each huge region. (ewheels, speedyfeet, somethingwerks, ecodrift). By end of 2017, InMotion had sold more than 10,000 units of the V8 alone. That alone makes 10% of a 100M sales volume you believe is impossible. Quote I'd say, 5-10K worldwide tops. By end of 2017, two years ago and within two years, InMotion had sold more than 10,000 units of the V8 alone. By now, beginning of 2020, the number of sold V8 units has most likely passed 20K. No way there are tops 10K EUCers around the world. There are probably about 5-10K EUCers in Paris alone. There are at least three shops in Paris having made their living on selling EUCs for years (and Aliexpress exists in France too). That makes at the very least a few thousand locally sold units, possibly a few ten thousands. My traffic counts combined with the number of >250K cycling trips per day would estimated the number of daily EUCing trips in Paris to around 5000. Yes, I agree, it's hard to believe, but there are almost certainly more than a thousand EUCing trips made every day in Paris alone. That means a conservative estimate is 1 million EUC km / year in Paris alone. A tiny percentage of these trips would show up in EUC.World (50K km for France). Edited January 15, 2020 by Mono 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterwheel Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said: Kinda late to spring that one on us for an answer tomorrow. They only contacted me yesterday and they want to do the interview outside so they can show me riding around in -35c temps and get the story on the news when winter conditions are newsworthy. So there's a time sensitive element as the the deep freeze will gradually start lifting tomorrow and be gone by Monday. That said, these numbers would be super useful to know for all of us who are promoting the sport so you're right, I should have researched this earlier. Edited January 15, 2020 by winterwheel 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterwheel Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Mono said: ... By end of 2017, two years ago, InMotion had sold more than 10,000 units of the V8 alone. No way there are tops 10K EUCers around the world. ... 4 hours ago, Seba said: First - EUC World database isn't in any way a representative source of information. Many users simply doesn't use tour tracking feature. I also doesn't collect any address information for users. So I can only make a simple statistics about count of tours we're started in which country and sum of kilometers of tours started in particular country. And here it is: ... This discussion has been super helpful, I feel a lot closer to knowing my s*** going into this than I did yesterday. Many thanks. Edited January 15, 2020 by winterwheel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterwheel Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Mono said: a conservative estimate is 1 million EUC km / year in Paris alone. I'm definitely going to be using this number a lot, not just today, but when communicating with city political and planning folk. The city vs city thing will be great. Edited January 15, 2020 by winterwheel 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tazarinho Posted January 15, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 15, 2020 35 minutes ago, winterwheel said: This discussion has been super helpful, I feel a lot closer to knowing my s*** going into this than I did yesterday. Many thanks. And more social media stats: just checked and Mr. Flex (by my knowing the rider with the most subscribers) has 17.6 K youtube subscribers. Sure, there might be friends, family and non-riding fans, but I bet almost all of them are riders. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 See also 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee guy Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Direct the momentum of the news piece to not just filling time/space, and maybe promote our activity more by referring their attention to other extremists (ie: the World Tour of Monsieur Flex), as well as other places and/or outlets of information. Also don’t be shy about trying to get another interview! By using the Mr Flex World Tour will also show examples of other riders in extreme conditions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post FlyboyEUC Posted January 15, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, Aneta said: where are they now? Lost interest? Got injured? Who knows. A lot has happened as far as the legality goes. Many countries have banned these and I've seen a lot of people leave from fear of having traceable history of breaking the law that government agents could dig up to throw you in jail. I miss some of those guys, they had great input and knowledge. The culture of this forum sure has changed since then. I've often asked myself, "When will I stop checking this forum 5 times a day?" For some, it's easy to stay off "social media." For me, this forum is the closest thing I have to friends with similar interest. I have noticed a lot of older members are commenting less. Maybe they are tired of saying the same thing over and over (there is a search function... but I understand that it isn't very good). Or they figure that there are enough people now that someone else will comment. They can just enjoy riding without any stress or drama from this forum. Edited January 15, 2020 by Flyboy10 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIZARD Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Not worth mentioning but anything promoting the growth, awareness and safety of our sport is worth supporting. I can confirm 2 regular riders, 1 occasional rider and 1 rumored sighting in Des Moines, Iowa, USA, Earth, Solar System, Milkyway Galaxy. 3 in Des Moines, Iowa. WEAR A HELMET!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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