The KS16x has issues, but I just bought it. WHY?

[photorph]

Have ridden MANY EUCs so far.  I'm not a fan of kingsong, specially due to their software and firmware limitation...speed throttling, and under powered wheels.  I've stuck to Gotway and have been very happy.  My current favorite two I own being the msx 100v and nikola+ that I have no issues with.  I've had kingsongs before and they were not as good as gotways for some of the reasons I mentioned.

 

I have a KS16x incoming next week.  Why??? I don't know, somewhere deep down I want to like it but I know I won't.  I know it has many issues and problems, so WHY do you all continue to buy it when competition (i.e. Gotway nikola) is the much better wheel?  In a way I bought it to find out WHY is this wheel still selling so much.  I know the trolley is way better, the build quality and looks are way better, but the ride is what I'm wanting to find out more about.  Historically I have not liked the way the 18L or the 16s or the 14s rode vs the gotway equivalents (msx, tesla, mcm5, mten3).

 

Anything else I need to know about this wheel, fill me in.  Do I need to calibrate this upon arrival?  etc etc.   @Mike Sacristan 

 

I'll be making tutorial videos for other future buyers as well.  But yea, incoming next week... I'll be doing a Nik+ vs KS16x comparison soon also.

 

Edited October 9, 2019 by photorph

[meepmeepmayer]

You do like your flame war bait thread titles, don't you? 

3 minutes ago, photorph said:

so WHY do you all continue to buy it when competition (i.e. Gotway nikola) is the much better wheel?  In a way I bought it to find out WHY is this wheel still selling so much.

Looking forward to what you find out.

[photorph]

3 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

You do like your flame war bait thread titles, don't you? 

Looking forward to what you find out.

Improved the title a bit   But yea really curious to see why it's selling so much.  It is outpacing nikola+ sales and Jason from ewheels is swamped with emails about it post purchase.  

Edited October 3, 2019 by photorph

[Mrd777]

Come back to this thread later and let us know. I only have a 100 miles on it and I've always been a Gotway fan.. however gave it a chance and love it,  it's a solid wheel that is nimble and quick. It's my wheel of choice at the moment.

[photorph]

2 minutes ago, Mrd777 said:

Come back to this thread later and let us know. I only have a 100 miles on it and I've always been a Gotway fan.. however gave it a chance and love it,  it's a solid wheel that is nimble and quick. It's my wheel of choice at the moment.

Thanks!  Good to hear someone who has used a nik+ prefers the 16X.  Now I have hope.

[Nic]

 

[photorph]

8 minutes ago, Nic said:

 

I'll watch that video later (at work), but that title is NOT very reassuring haha.  

[eucinsea]

2 hours ago, photorph said:

Have ridden 7 EUCs so far.  I'm not a fan of kingsong, terrible software and firmware limitation...speed throttling, and under powered wheels.  I've stuck to Gotway and have been very happy.  My current favorite two I own being the msx 100v and nikola+ that I have no issues with.  I've had kingsongs before and they were not as good as gotways for some of the reasons I mentioned. 

I do not understand why OP wasted $2000 on an euc he hates to then just complain about it on the forums. 
 

OP maybe you should just sell it when you get it and go on with your life without an 16x. 

[Mike Sacristan]

2 hours ago, photorph said:

Anything else I need to know about this wheel, fill me in.  Do I need to calibrate this upon arrival?  etc etc.   @Mike Sacristan 

 

Congrats! Do you know if it will come with the CX tyre?
First or second batch?
It is a different kind of floating and I know how much you like to float.

You do not need to calibrate it on arrival just ride it as it is.
It is a very free feeling wheel with a nice mind reading feel to it.

Very interested in reading your impressions when you get it!

[Slashebeest]

I'm now at 900km after 1 month, so far: not one single issue, apart from the 50km with 1.06 it has been an amazing wheel 

But I'm looking forward to your comparison video.

 

 

[Unventor]

3 hours ago, photorph said:

competition (i.e. Gotway nikola) is the much better wheel?

That might seem to be cut out of context, but still...

What you or any other rider define as better is down to the rider. I will any time at any point argue there is no such thing as" best wheel" at this point in time nor any time soon. Same there is no such thing as best car....it depends....

I will also argue at any time that speed of fastest is anything as best wheel for 95% of the riders using an EUC. Our brain adapts very fast to speed. So once you go 25kmh you start to look for faster ride if you focus is set on speed, then 30..35..60...90...200kmh  (if it is a car) the same thing will happen with an EUC. there is just one major catch with an EUC compared to a car or mc. The risk you take increases so much faster with increased speed.

Going fast in a straight line become boring very fast no matter the speed. But a twisted mountain road going up and down left and right with limited view range around bends will give you more thrills. I can let you into secret that most fail to identify, when people enjoy any ride it is not the speed that triggers the pleasure, but the forces the body feel. Like acceleration, turning, braking, or  change in forces.

So the KS16X is not a speed wheel. But what it does do really well is how it reacts to demand of the rider, combined with the being very agile at low speed, yet easy to balance, and characteristic change (some call it gyro effect) at higher speed, that mean a change in ride style, hanging over the side, and giving the rider as taste of having to fight to make the wheel do what the rider wants in a "high" speed turn in a controlled manner. You can see @Mike Sacristan doing that in several of his YouTube clips. 

Yes you might be able to do that on a GW wheel too....but that does not make either one better.

I love my KS16X, best purchase I ever done, despite 1st batch issues, and it just been shipped of for service/investigation (properly just pure unlucky incident, until I know result or more details, this is as much I share here for now).

But the 350km I had on it has been the best 350 km I have ever done so far in my short life on EUC experience yet. My most fun on the wheel is actually sub 20kmh even at slower that walking speed. I do not do tricks , but slow rides with "extreme" carving/navigation pedestrian area can be very fun and to people not seen an EUC before, right out jaw dropping, and that reaction give me huge pleasure.

I hope you find you KS16X fun to ride too. Since you have different wheels, you will likely find too some wheels you ride more than others, but that is still not the same as all can bring you joy under the right circumstance.

So back to you statement I cut out to quote, I look forward to see why you decide pro vs cons and yet hope you like the wheel too since you bought it. 

Right now I just wish for my baby to return asap.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Unventor
Note: I found the wheel grew on me, for evey 100kmh I got more synced with the wheel as I got 1 more level of joy.

[photorph]

1 hour ago, prasket said:

I do not understand why OP wasted $2000 on an euc he hates to then just complain about it on the forums. 
 

OP maybe you should just sell it when you get it and go on with your life without an 16x. 

 

Well hate is a strong word, I have not liked kingsong wheels historically as much as Gotway wheels.  But since the 16X is such a departure from the usual KS wheels...i'm hoping something is different, I want to like it because it LOOKS great.  And I'm really hoping I do.  Verdict next week. 

[lioku]

Also looking forward to a direct comparison. I was also looking at the Nik+, and eventually decided to go with the 16X.

I live in San Francisco, so I do a lot of city riding up steep hills, and take my wheel on transit constantly. Hill climbing torque, nimbleness, compactness, and great trolley were the selling points that got me to go for the 16X. The high-speed ability of the Nik+ was less important to me. I'm rarely in an open-road situation where I can get up to speeds above 25mph. I recently had a chance to ride the 84v Nikola. It felt harder to turn at low speed, and the wideness felt a little awkward ergonomically. So far I'm really happy that I went with the 16X, despite the supposed issues.

[LanghamP]

3 minutes ago, Unventor said:

My most fun on the wheel is actually sub 20kmh even at slower that walking speed. I do not do tricks , but slow rides with "extreme" carving/navigation pedestrian area can be very fun and to people not seen an EUC before, right out jaw dropping, and that reaction give me huge pleasure

Although do my best to entirely avoid pedestrians, this is a hugely overlooked point of EUC riding. I find the best places are actually pedestrian friendly areas, while the worst are car friendly areas.

Pedestrian areas feel just right for EUC, everything is close by, you can gawk, take pictures, and not go much above 10 mph.

Car friendly areas feel ridiculously huge, nothing is to our scale, and there's not much fun going fast because it's the same slab of concrete.

[erk1024]

How would you guys compare the 16X and 18XL in terms of speed wobbles and general stability? Are speed wobbles directly related to the diameter of the wheel? What about tire width?

I've been assuming that:

• more weight = more wobbles
• smaller wheel = more wobbles
• less experience = more wobbles

But I could be totally wrong (wouldn't be the first time). And I'm wondering if pedal placement, firmware and other factors affect stability.

[Unventor]

51 minutes ago, photorph said:

Verdict next week. 

It might take a little longer to get used to. But that is part of the huge joy factor too. 

[Mike Sacristan]

 

I have been on a few wheels now.
18XL, Nikola, Nikola+, MSX, 16X, V10 and Tesla. Sadly no Monster but maybe one day.

Some wheels feel more natural to us than others and then experience will take a small back seat. Tyre pressure is a big factor when it comes to ride stability.

The 18XL is a very nice generic wheel. Even though the noise does get on my nerves it is a very nice feeling wheel with good acceleration, breaking, top speed, turning ability and battery life. My friend Simon can keep up with just about any local rider in most scenarios on his 18XL and he has been riding for 3 months. He is young and fearless though.

MSX requires more intent to get up to speed and resists in turns. Requiring more intent means more forward lean and then we have shifted weight to the balls of our feet compromising balance.

16X requires less intent to go forward and when riding it I rarely have to shift weight to the balls of my feet unless I am playing with a heavy head wind. I can get to high speed very easily where the 16X with CX tyre becomes more and more stable and thus ride faster more often than what I can on the other wheels. There have been a few times at around 40 kmh where I have been close to failing a turn though because I turned with my calves instead of turning with my feet and this is a no no with the CX. The CX also behaves like a nice springy bushing on a longboard and bounces back to center after you throw it to the side.

Nikola+ feels more massive and will cost me more to move side to side. Even more than the MSX. The MSX is lower and top heavy and can be flopped side to side. Nikola+ though is a bit zippier but a bit wobblier.

Of all the wheels the 16X has the best feel to it and is also the best hill climber.

There are more to wheels than just speed. We would be better off with motorcycles in that case.
The only thing the Nikola+ does better than the 16X is ride faster on straights and brake better (technique be damned).
The 16X turns better, carves better, is easier to get up to speed, better off road, better balanced, more nimble, better at climbing, more comfortable and more fun with an unconventional feel. It can be more exciting or less exciting with just the help of a tyre pump.

16X is the most ironic wheel out there! The faster you go the more stable it gets. It reaches top speed in the blink of an eye and then it tells you to slow down.
At least we get to do motorcycle turns on it! And with high PSI the CX tyre goes totally nuts and carves on it's own and you either flow with it or die. It's a blast.

Got my 16X on August 22nd. 1950km on it so far. Have to send it in for repairs though as it is behaving like a 800Wh wheel. Life happens.

Showing 16X stability at speed:

Cruising with my friend on his MSX. Check out his speed wobble lol.

Hill climbing on 18 inchers. Not a single hill was climbed that day.

Hill climbing on 16 inchers.

 

[Marty Backe]

Variety is the spice of life. That's why I bought the 16X. Although I still think the Nikola is a much better ride, we're really splitting hairs here. Circa late 2019, we are enjoying an embarrassment of EUC riches.

I really like my 16X.

[stephen]

11 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

16X requires less intent to go forward and when riding it I rarely have to shift weight to the balls of my feet unless I am playing with a heavy head wind. I can get to high speed very easily where the 16X with CX tyre becomes more and more stable and thus ride faster more often than what I can on the other wheels. There have been a few times at around 40 kmh where I have been close to failing a turn though because I turned with my calves instead of turning with my feet and this is a no no with the CX. The CX also behaves like a nice springy bushing on a longboard and bounces back to center after you throw it to the side.

Nikola+ feels more massive and will cost me more to move side to side. Even more than the MSX. The MSX is lower and top heavy and can be flopped side to side. Nikola+ though is a bit zippier but a bit wobblier.

Of all the wheels the 16X has the best feel to it and is also the best hill climber.

There are more to wheels than just speed. We would be better off with motorcycles in that case.
The only thing the Nikola+ does better than the 16X is ride faster on straights and brake better (technique be damned).
The 16X turns better, carves better, is easier to get up to speed, better off road, better balanced, more nimble, better at climbing, more comfortable and more fun with an unconventional feel. It can be more exciting or less exciting with just the help of a tyre pump.

As Mike says 👍.. No comment needed from me  , i think you can tell from my videos how much i love this wheel 👍❤️

[Themarsman]

Congrats on your new purchase!  Will be very curious how you like it as it will probably be my new wheel.

[Declan acoustic-unicyclist]

@photorph

You really have articulated how I feel about the KS vs Gotway debate over time, based on the wheels I've ridden.

 

The 16X does have higher pedals, which make it easier to avoid scraping. It is comparable to the MSX, so this is a clear advantage. 

Please update with your feelings in comparison to the Gotway wheels you enjoy (I'm an mten3 fanboy)

[Dangeruss]

On 10/3/2019 at 7:01 AM, photorph said:

Have ridden 7 EUCs so far.  I'm not a fan of kingsong, terrible software and firmware limitation...speed throttling, and under powered wheels.  I've stuck to Gotway and have been very happy.  My current favorite two I own being the msx 100v and nikola+ that I have no issues with.  I've had kingsongs before and they were not as good as gotways for some of the reasons I mentioned.

 

I have a KS16x incoming next week.  Why??? I don't know, somewhere deep down I want to like it but I know I won't.  I know it has many issues and problems, so WHY do you all continue to buy it when competition (i.e. Gotway nikola) is the much better wheel?  In a way I bought it to find out WHY is this wheel still selling so much.  I know the trolley is way better, the build quality and looks are way better, but the ride is what I'm wanting to find out more about.  Historically I have not liked the way the 18L or the 16s or the 14s rode vs the gotway equivalents (msx, tesla, mcm5, mten3).

 

Anything else I need to know about this wheel, fill me in.  Do I need to calibrate this upon arrival?  etc etc.   @Mike Sacristan 

 

I'll be making tutorial videos for other future buyers as well.  But yea, incoming next week... I'll be doing a Nik+ vs KS16x comparison soon also.

 

Make sure to update to 1.07. 

Soft mode is king!

You will like this wheel, and the tire once you get on it for a bit. 

[erk1024]

On 10/3/2019 at 10:21 AM, Mrd777 said:

Come back to this thread later and let us know. I only have a 100 miles on it and I've always been a Gotway fan.. however gave it a chance and love it,  it's a solid wheel that is nimble and quick. It's my wheel of choice at the moment.

 

On 10/3/2019 at 10:08 AM, photorph said:

Improved the title a bit   But yea really curious to see why it's selling so much.  It is outpacing nikola+ sales and Jason from ewheels is swamped with emails about it post purchase. 

This is my dilemma. When I want to go for a ride, I always seem to choose the Monster V3 lately because it's crazy fun--so freaking fast and roadworthy.

So l decided to sell my 18XL and also there is a guy at work who want's to buy it--another EUC convert hopefully. That free's up some cash for another wheel, but the problem is: why would I ride the NEW wheel when I don't ride the 18XL? In other words, why spend money on a wheel just to ignore it and ride the Monster? The new wheel would have to open up a new set of riding possibilities, or be *different enough* that I would choose to ride it half the time.

So I'm thinking it would be fun (and a good workout) to do some offroad riding, and the Monster is not exactly a climbing wheel. So then I should get one of these wheels with a fat tire and gobs of torque, like the Nikola or 16X.

• Nikola: The shell is going to show a lot of scratches or could crack because of the plastic that was used if I dump it doing offroad.
• 16X: Seems like a better choice in terms of shell durability, and also there will soon be excellent Roll.nz covers for it.
• MSX: Nice big tire for soaking up bumps, but smaller pedals and less torque than the other two.

Great! I should get a 16X. But reading this thread is kind of a horror show. People are reporting cut-outs (maybe that guy just overleaned it), they have to send their wheels back because of problems, the firmware situation is "evolving" shall we say. I'm also a heavy 265lb rider, so I'm going to put more stress on the wheel than your average rider. 

... so what to do? ...

 

Edited October 5, 2019 by erk1024

[Mike Sacristan]

41 minutes ago, erk1024 said:

Great! I should get a 16X. But reading this thread is kind of a horror show. People are reporting cut-outs (maybe that guy just overleaned it), they have to send their wheels back because of problems, the firmware situation is "evolving" shall we say. I'm also a heavy 265lb rider, so I'm going to put more stress on the wheel than your average rider. 

I trust the 16X at my 136 but I sure wouldn't trust it at almost twice that. You can scratch the 16X right off your list.
Nikola+ it is.
 

[Marty Backe]

10 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

I trust the 16X at my 136 but I sure wouldn't trust it at almost twice that. You can scratch the 16X right off your list.
Nikola+ it is.
 

  Really? Why wouldn't you trust it? Remember, @erk1024 is talking about off-road riding.