The KS16x has issues, but I just bought it. WHY?

[Mike Sacristan]

I would also choose a 16X over the Nikola+. Even though there are crazy new Nikola+ configurations coming out with 2000Wh+ 21700 batteries I would still choose the 16X unless I had a specific NEED for the speed and range. Having tried and ridden Tesla, Nikola, Nikola+, 18XL, MSX 84v, V10, V10F, V8, Ninebot One E+, MCM4 I can say without a doubt that the 16X has the best riding feel of all of them. It is also a great hill climber, great at skate parks and great off-road.

I got mine back from 1radwerkstatt today. They fixed the battery connector that had shorted/burned up.
I have been riding my MSX in the meantime and as I rode more and more I started to question why I even own the 16X.
After riding the 16X today I was reminded as to why. Pure fun. I hit 50.7 kmh and did a bit of riding at around 45-47 kmh. No problems at all and it has always worked well.
FW 1.05

[fourthewin]

I want to get a 16x just because of the Kingsong bashing going on in here. 

[KAY GEE]

5 minutes ago, fourthewin said:

I want to get a 16x just because of the Kingsong bashing going on in here. 

The King song bashing is because people tend to associate King song wheels with safety and trouble free rides but the 16X has had so much issues. 

To be frank with everyone reading this post, the 16X has been a pleasure to ride. I take the 16X out more often than my other wheels, I wasn't pleased with the CX tyre but once I changed it to the CYT tyre, that was it, the 16X became my mini monster. I take it for night rides because it has the best lights. The tyre is fantastic for me at 30 psi, not too soft or hard just right. 

The only negative that I can say is the speed limit but we all know the philosophy of Kingsong as regards that. 

On the flip side, King song gave us firmware 1.05,  which is a riders delight as long as you don't misuse it, experienced riders would know what I'm talking about. 

[erk1024]

47 minutes ago, fourthewin said:

I want to get a 16x just because of the Kingsong bashing going on in here. 

I'm not seeing a lot of "bashing", just a frank discussion of the issues. There ARE issues. But people are loving it anyway.

3 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

I got mine back from 1radwerkstatt today. They fixed the battery connector that had shorted/burned up.

Case in point: It's Mike's favorite wheel, but he had to send it off because the battery connector failed. Shrug. Look through the forum and there are a lot of these little issues. So it's a mixed bag. 

Hopefully in a few months KS will get all these ironed out. 

Edited October 25, 2019 by erk1024

[photorph]

3 hours ago, fourthewin said:

I want to get a 16x just because of the Kingsong bashing going on in here. 

No bashing, just discussion of all the facts.  I have mentioned that the KS16x is my wheel of choice under 25 mph many times. 

[stephen]

I'd just like to say i also love my ks16x , it's probably the most enjoyable wheel i have , it's just a pure pleasure to ride 😁

To me also was the easiest wheel to learn to go backwards as I've tried on my others without success,, this is me on my second day having learnt the backwards technique 😁😁. Its just a joy to ride backwards on this wheel 😁

I love this wheel ❤️

 

Edited October 25, 2019 by stephen

[UniVehje]

6 hours ago, erk1024 said:

Case in point: It's Mike's favorite wheel, but he had to send it off because the battery connector failed. Shrug. Look through the forum and there are a lot of these little issues. So it's a mixed bag. 

Hopefully in a few months KS will get all these ironed out. 

Yep, still not a finished product but very promising indeed. 

KS has a history in perfecting their wheels over time. If you think about the 18L in the beginning it's the same story. It had small battery, weird mud flap, small pedals, wonky cut-off switch, weak trolley handle, a lot of problems.

Over time they have they have now the 18XL with

• big battery,
• bigger pedals,
• new mud flap,
• stronger trolley,
• light repositioned not to blind people, 
• just lately strengthened the inner body
• New mechanical cut-off with (same as in 16X)
• all the small problems solved
• And updated the firmware to a much better version, faster acceleration etc. 

It's now a very reliable and good wheel, only a bit boring option with newer wheels on the market. Expect the same treatment for the 16X, next spring it will likely be better and one of the more reliable wheels out there. (of course it will also have a few new competitors from Gotway by then )

[fourthewin]

9 hours ago, photorph said:

No bashing, just discussion of all the facts.  I have mentioned that the KS16x is my wheel of choice under 25 mph many times. 

Not really. You have a clearly stated bias that started off in the original thread title that you have since modified. 

You reference the wheel as chock full of issues and the Gotway as a clean and holy perfect wheel but yet a simple perusal into the Gotway forum shows that their wheels are rife with issues and it's even standard best practice to dismantle the wheel on arrival and be sure everything is screwed down properly. I mean....WOW. It's almost hilarious the amount of quality control issues the Gotway's have. 

Honestly, I'm not sure your intent here....other than to shake the bush and get some reactions. Possibly you're getting a small cut of the sales because that's the way some of your posts read....but that is entirely assumptive. 

Regardless, no one really believes that you will give an authentic review of wheel and I'm not overly concerned with your motives or even care. Only that your bias is distasteful and I thought I would bring it up. 

Edited October 25, 2019 by fourthewin

[Shad0z]

On 10/25/2019 at 2:27 PM, fourthewin said:

Sorry, can remove your quote. Tried everything, though this is an answer to it anyways

Gotways have issues. Standard practise to open a gotway wheel on arrival??? Who said that? 

Statistics don't lie, the msx, nikola, and mcm5 have had small failure rates, to even no failiures reported by some resellers. Can't say the same about ks. 

Statistics don't lie. I just don't get why anyone would team up with one company and bash the other. Fanboisim is the last thing anyone would want in the euc industry. If onr company has the monopoly on these wheels, then iut the window goes development and good prices. 

We need healthy competition to fuel development. Both ks and gw have their place in this. My personal choice as of now is gotway. I wouldn't want to get into a mess like the 16x, it rides like magic. And is beautiful, but after what i have heard online. And from my friend who bought one. Ks is not the safe perfect shiny choice so many apologists try to tell me it is. Neither is gotway. I already chose my poison. So far it has worked very well. 

Edited October 27, 2019 by Shad0z

[stephen]

14 minutes ago, Shad0z said:

I wouldn't ever want to buy a mess like the 16x

I love my 16x it's far from a mess . It does everything i want I'm well impressed with it 😊

Edited October 25, 2019 by stephen

[Nic]

I love my V8 ... 

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, Shad0z said:

I wouldn't ever want to buy a mess like the 16x, it rides like magic. And is beautiful, but after what i have heard online

Any brand and model have units that fail. None is prefect. As for first batch the business as such also have issues. 

Most are ironed out over time. I am very very happy with my KS16X. Despite I had to send it off for service. 

From what I gather it is a fairly small number of wheels affected (so far). 

But calling it a mess is something I think is very hard to call it. How you would be able to buy any wheel with such a statement is very simply beyond me. I do this that part "after what I heard online" is a very interesting fact for news... I can't help . 

Edited October 25, 2019 by Unventor

[Shad0z]

14 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Any brand and model have units that fail. None is prefect. As for first batch the business as such also have issues. 

Most are ironed out over time. I am very very happy with my KS16X. Despite I had to send it off for service. 

From what I gather it is a fairly small number of wheels affected (so far). 

But calling it a mess is something I think is very hard to call it. How you would be able to buy any wheel with such a statement is very simply beyond me. I do this that part "after what I heard online" is a very interesting fact for news... I can't help . 

Would you please keep a good tone, it doesn't help anyone.. I tried a ks16x, i actually really like it. It is so easy to write off every "i heard this online"  statement too easily. I definetly get you point, don't trust everything online. But I'll  clarify "i gathered information on the matter online and applied logic to it" my friend who bought a ks16x has had 6 issues with it already, still unsure if he should keep counting. But i hope not. 

The reason for calling it a mess is the issues. It's not a complete fuckup. That  would be the z10, But for my needs those issues are a mess to me. Im not saying everyone finds it a mess. But again im just gonna clarify "for my needs" it is subjective

Edited October 25, 2019 by Shad0z

[erk1024]

2 hours ago, Shad0z said:

Fanboisim is the last thing anyone would want in the euc industry.

Agree! Hopefully this is not inevitable. We're all tired of tribalism, identity politics, what about'ism, and everything that goes with it. My advice is don't let a brand become part of your identity. Instead, evaluate products model by model in the most objective way possible. Fun and reliability are two different aspects of a wheel, and you have to take both into consideration.

Just because some people are having issues with a wheel, doesn't mean we should write it off. The forum is kind of "the sum of all fears" in that you hear about every problem that every member has. But the truth is there are people who buy wheel "A" and have no problems with it at all. (I was going to say "wheel X" but assume that others would assume I was talking about the 16X and that's too much assuming.)

I'm new to this hobby. I've only ridden three wheels, and I'm still experimenting with wheel sizes, and models, etc. Riding them is SUPER FUN. Loving it. I'm 265 lbs, so I have to factor that into my buying decisions. For example, the 16X doesn't seem to have as many top end amps available, so the 100V Nikola is a better choice for me specifically.

The three wheels I've had:

KS18XL:

• Operated flawlessly from day one, no problems with app

Monster V3:

I find this wheel more fun to ride than the 18XL. It's more comfortable, handles road hazards better, and it's a blast to go fast. Not as nimble though for sure. And it sux not having a trolley handle.

• Had to open the shell and fix the pedal magnet which was falling out
• Disabled the lift switch which could get stuck
• Fixed a slow leak in the tire (Not Gotway's fault, just a bad tube)

Nikola+:

This is probably going to be my new favorite wheel. Trolley handle is fine. It's almost as comfortable as the Monster, but more zippiness and maneuverability.

• I'm having an overheat issue after 6 miles, so next week I'm going to replace the fan and/or control board.

So I'm caught in this fun / reliability mix like everybody else. 

 

Edited October 25, 2019 by erk1024

[fourthewin]

2 hours ago, Shad0z said:

Gotways have issues. Standard practise to open a gotway wheel on arrival??? Who said that? 

Literally I saw 5 different examples in various posts on the first page. 

The overheating Nikola+ post says in the first reply. "My Nik+ fan turns on almost right away and stays on until I turn off the wheel. As with any new GotWay wheel, open it up and make sure wires are properly tied down, harness secured, etc. I wouldn't trust the QA on GotWay wheels."

From what I've seen, the issues with the 16x seem to be a small batch of isolated events and the Nikola+ has experienced similar QC issues. 

[Shad0z]

1 minute ago, fourthewin said:

Literally I saw 5 different examples in various posts on the first page. 

The overheating Nikola+ post says in the first reply. "My Nik+ fan turns on almost right away and stays on until I turn off the wheel. As with any new GotWay wheel, open it up and make sure wires are properly tied down, harness secured, etc. I wouldn't trust the QA on GotWay wheels."

From what I've seen, the issues with the 16x seem to be a small batch of isolated events and the Nikola+ has experienced similar QC issues. 

Gotway struggles with qc for sure. For the most part you don't need to worry. But check on it later on for sure. The thing about the 16x issues are that they are not isolated qc issues. The design of the Power button module that lets water in easily is a design issue, same goes for some of the firmware jank, until they fix it that is. Also the shell having little to no dust and water resistance and opening gaps for water after crashing in a certain spot isn't either. Otherwise great wheel. 

[greentung]

44 minutes ago, fourthewin said:

Literally I saw 5 different examples in various posts on the first page. 

The overheating Nikola+ post says in the first reply. "My Nik+ fan turns on almost right away and stays on until I turn off the wheel. As with any new GotWay wheel, open it up and make sure wires are properly tied down, harness secured, etc. I wouldn't trust the QA on GotWay wheels."

From what I've seen, the issues with the 16x seem to be a small batch of isolated events and the Nikola+ has experienced similar QC issues. 

I stand by my quote to inspect GotWay wheels. I should qualify it to also include KingSong. I don't own a KingSong so I mention only GotWay. But when I did get a future 16XL I will also inspect it upon arrival.  

[Unventor]

55 minutes ago, Shad0z said:

Would you please keep a good tone, it doesn't help anyone..

Calling a wheel a mess

.... vs it is not suited to you needs.... 

And then asking me to keep a good tone.

I clearly am defending a wheel I own and like. I am not just posting things I heard... And about the good tone I were quoting what you yourself wrote. 

When you write the way you do,... in your good tone.... , then it will cause a reaction. 

[Matthieu Thegrey]

What i can see for that GW/KS ups and cons from the few past years...

 

KS came to wheels later and not with the same "codes" as GW guys. I hear the story that they came from motherboards of money distributors. Huge reliability and complexity needed.

 

They made wonderful wheels. KS14D or KS16B-S were excellent: compact, waterresistant, tough (except for axis on 16B that were stille borderline), LIGHT, and so convenient with trolley/reversible lights. Perfect urban wheels so far...

KS has made mistakes like GW, but they didn't stop correcting those. Of course there are new ones. 

Ok, for 18L there were annoying non-finition issues, but nothing critical (trolley, mudguard, overheating light...).

KS was not top performance wheel (due to complex process time) but was close top it, while bringing a lot of qualities.

And now for 16X, I must say I am very surprised of thos huge design mistakes KS has made, at leat about water/dust proofing. They had an excellent design with previous models. But still I see that they learned from the past with everything else. That wheel still is lovely, many little flaws deleted (magnetic pedals, trolley cut sensor is perfect).

I must add that KS has invested a lot of money in building modern chain factory. The assembling process is more complex, more refined, more effective, less source of mistake.

 

GW had many flaws these past years. Burning wires, the huge cutout bug with a generation of MS3, less waterproofing, less refined design, less effective handles and lights.

They have never invested money in modern process, they quite build on demand. So less complex process, more prone tu human mistakes. Bigger garage than RockWheel, but still not modern stuff.

But they have the experience, and i think the test and retry way of doing. And they use top notch components ( just compare KS18L and MSX connectors/wires/whatever...).

And GW's performances have always stood at the top.

And that strategy  to quickly and frequently release a new wheel has provec to serve their business model.

 

I think both have pros and cons, and have been surprised of how GW has successed to maintain his reputation despite it's rustic process. And I must admit my favorite wheel (I have 6) must be my MSX.

But I love my 18L...

But I love my MCM5...

But I love my RW,

...

 

[Nic]

V8 is the BEST wheel ever !!! 

On a more serious note ... some people will drive around in old classic cars because they find something special that makes them feel good ... even though those old cars cannot match what we have today. Its not just about performance, but how it makes you feel and all the little details that you value. Which one is better in some way or another doesn't matter.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Nic

[Shad0z]

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

Calling a wheel a mess

.... vs it is not suited to you needs.... 

And then asking me to keep a good tone.

I clearly am defending a wheel I own and like. I am not just posting things I heard... And about the good tone I were quoting what you yourself wrote. 

When you write the way you do,... in your good tone.... , then it will cause a reaction. 

It being a mess a mess when factoring jn my needs is not a bad tone, it's an opinion. A face palm is... Not so much. 

You have the right to do it of course. It's just a bad vibe. 

[evX_Mick]

On 10/13/2019 at 4:33 AM, Unventor said:

I can only hope if you get into an accident that those affected in the damage you cause with you ride style will sue you to the maximum extent they can. From the impression (I don’t live there so it is impression only) I have that can be a pretty expensive affair. And only hope some kid doesn't get hurt in the process. 

Argument about how traffic is different, do not take away how physics work. 

I rarely say I hope for someone to get hurt but some people are just outside reach of common sense. 

I wounder if the freedom you speak of feels as great in jain too if you severely hurt some one. 

How you're a moderator in this forum with that evil mindset is actually astonishing. This forum has more freedom than the streets of NYC lol. I wish noting but the best for you.

[evX_Mick]

On 10/13/2019 at 2:58 AM, buell47 said:

Such discussions are boring and superfluous. 

@MickeyMicklos

Your driving style is dangerous and your arguments are absolutely nonsense. You are not a role model for road safety, no matter where you are in the world. Your videos should therefore be banned. 

But I don't think you want to be a role model for road safety, do you? 

So stand by the fact that you prefer fun and adrenaline instead of sneaking from A to B as safely as possible and stop justifying yourself. 

Do what you like, you only live once, but at least leave uninvolved ones alive. 

What I agree with @Unventor is that you might piss yourself on your leg with all these YT videos. So enjoy your freedom as long as you have it. 

 

BANNED! Someone ban this guy hahaha. ya'll love the word ban. I'm sooo NOT a role model for anyone. You are correct about that. You're free to hate on America but we have fun here. ok, now back ot banning people. hahaha. 

[Unventor]

4 hours ago, MickeyMicklos said:

How you're a moderator in this forum with that evil mindset is actually astonishing. This forum has more freedom than the streets of NYC lol. I wish noting but the best for you.

Since you chose to report me, I have made my opinion clear in the original post. 

[Nic]

7 hours ago, MickeyMicklos said:

BANNED! Someone ban this guy hahaha. ya'll love the word ban. I'm sooo NOT a role model for anyone. You are correct about that. You're free to hate on America but we have fun here. ok, now back ot banning people. hahaha. 

Can you post some links to your videos so people can judge for themselves?