The KS16x has issues, but I just bought it. WHY?

[stephen]

1 hour ago, Matthieu Thegrey said:

am even tempted to get my next wheels to him, just because of all the stories i saw here, despite i'm living in France...

As nice as it sounds i don't think Jason delivers to France I'm  in the UK and he couldn't ☹️ so speedyfeet it is😊👍

Edited October 10, 2019 by stephen

[photorph]

4 hours ago, Matthieu Thegrey said:

You guys in the US are really lucky to have @Jason McNeil. In Europe the resellers are so roguish. I think he deserves much respect, because he is dealing with the same guys that our ressellers do, and it must not be a piece of cake.

I am even tempted to get my next wheels to him, just because of all the stories i saw here, despite i'm living in France...

 

Shipping to Europe is a bit cost prohibitive.  You do have Ian from speedyfeet right?

[Unventor]

6 minutes ago, photorph said:

 

Shipping to Europe is a bit cost prohibitive.  You do have Ian from speedyfeet right?

I doubt that will attracting after Brexit, especially if it is a no-deal bad break up. 

[stephen]

10 minutes ago, photorph said:

 

Shipping to Europe is a bit cost prohibitive.  You do have Ian from speedyfeet right?

Yes speedyfeet is local even if you live in France 👍😊

[photorph]

4 minutes ago, stephen said:

Yes speedyfeet is local even if you live in France 👍😊

haha, well I meant it's a lot closer than shipping from california

Edited October 10, 2019 by photorph

[Shad0z]

On 10/3/2019 at 7:39 PM, photorph said:

 

Well hate is a strong word, I have not liked kingsong wheels historically as much as Gotway wheels.  But since the 16X is such a departure from the usual KS wheels...i'm hoping something is different, I want to like it because it LOOKS great.  And I'm really hoping I do.  Verdict next week. 

well. i wish you luck. i tried but failed to get my friend to get the nikola because the 16x was teeming with issues according to the forums and fb. but at last. he decided that nikola was too ugly. and went for the 16x. now 2 weeks after he got it. it is sitting in a corner. wont turn on because of a short trip in mild rain.

before that he bought a z10 because it looked cool aswell.

be wary of the coolest looking wheels, maybe they are a trap 

 

[Shad0z]

On 10/8/2019 at 3:13 PM, Mimolette said:

I’m getting tired of Gotway fanboys flamebait, thank you forum for the ignore user function.

one of the best ways to learn and understand the world is to start being cool with being wrong. not implying anything. i do this myself. just a little tip

did you try the 16x and the nikola?

[Unventor]

@Shad0z there are/might be 1st batch issues. But normally these get solved. 

Most of the things posted here is due to not understanding the intended target group and trying to please too many wants than stick with what it do really great.

Yes my wheel is shipped for service, but I knew this can happen buying 1st batch. I love my KS16X, and I can't see why I should get a Nikola over the KS16X.

If you are to use what the Nikola do better than KS16X whick is speed, then you will get into trouble riding in Denmark where law say max 20kmh construction speed. Not only app limited. 

[null]

33 minutes ago, Shad0z said:

one of the best ways to learn and understand the world is to start being cool with being wrong. not implying anything. i do this myself. just a little tip

did you try the 16x and the nikola?

I’m cool with being wrong, if anything I have no stakes in either Gotway or Kingsong.  It’s been several times lately though that we get flamebait from Gotway people, and seing how every other hobby forum are riddled with pre-teen level flame wars, it makes me sad to see it appear here.

I have no problem with people having different opinions, I dislike arrogant and taunting attitudes.

I haven’t tried either (budget went to 18XL) but am curious and follow the feedback. I’m not giving much credit to people calling the 16x a « toy » though.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Mimolette

[Shad0z]

8 hours ago, Mimolette said:

I’m cool with being wrong, if anything I have no stakes in either Gotway or Kingsong.  It’s been several times lately though that we get flamebait from Gotway people, and seing how every other hobby forum are riddled with pre-teen level flame wars, it makes me sad to see it appear here.

I have no problem with people having different opinions, I dislike arrogant and taunting attitudes.

I haven’t tried either (budget went to 18XL) but am curious and follow the feedback. I’m not giving much credit to people calling the 16x a « toy » though.

the reason for calling it a toy is not because they hate ks. i tried both with a day in between. i see what they mean by that it felt like i toy in how it rides. it does not feel as polished and powerful. but the thing itself does not feel like a toy. its built fairly well. the nikola was too which i was surprised about actually

[Shad0z]

8 hours ago, Unventor said:

@Shad0z there are/might be 1st batch issues. But normally these get solved. 

Most of the things posted here is due to not understanding the intended target group and trying to please too many wants than stick with what it do really great.

Yes my wheel is shipped for service, but I knew this can happen buying 1st batch. I love my KS16X, and I can't see why I should get a Nikola over the KS16X.

If you are to use what the Nikola do better than KS16X whick is speed, then you will get into trouble riding in Denmark where law say max 20kmh construction speed. Not only app limited. 

i get your point. but what i like about the nikola is not speed. its just the feel. the firmware. the way i would describe it (completely subjective of course) is that it is like buying an expensive monitor or pair of headphones. once you go back from being used to them the monitor looks choppy and laggy. and the headphones sound empty somehow. thats how i would desribe the 16x vs the nikola or even my msx. the 16x is up there. but once you go back you feel like you are suddenly floating on a nice pillow once again, 

[null]

I don’t doubt that gotway has a nice ride feeling (hard mode mainly I believe), aren’t a safety issue any more, and are faster. I almost bought a MS3 the other day. Been considering the Nikola.

Other priorities exist though, like range, weight, ergonomics and design.

I make my living working on MacOS, I can’t count the number of times my tool have been called a toy by buffoons who can’t grasp the concept of different priorities. So I’m a bit sensitive to the term toy as an insult. (Same for mirror less cameras, etc etc)

Anyway, enough of derailing OPs thread

Edited October 11, 2019 by Mimolette

[evX_Mick]

On 10/9/2019 at 3:04 AM, Unventor said:

I just can't help thinking how can a guy like this claim that max speed is the most important factor over all other things in that kind of traffic. How he is going between cars ....

He is really making sure that others can see him coming in that black cloths and look too. I wounder if he ever drive a car and understand how a car driver see the outside world from his/hers car. 

@WenInPhilly @uventor 

So i'm not in the forums all that much so forgive me for my late reply. I'm writing the coments below in the most positive way.  

 

Here goes:

 

1) You don't live in NYC so you don't know what works and what doesn't work here in traffic.

2) You saw me riding in traffic right? So there can't be only one way to make that work... Every city and rider is different.

3) Back in my 20s I drove 20ft trucks in Manhattan for a living. Out of anyone I proabbly have the MOST experience knowing how drivers think and how they act and how little they see when driving. I also don't lane split all that often if you watch my videos you'll see me behind/ in front of cars most of the time. I often dip intot he bike lane when needed as well.

4) I didn't claim max speed is the most important factor in traffic. I said that I think the 16x beats the Nikola on every front except for speed, but I think the high speed outweighs all that in regards to the overall appeal of the EUC. So I am talking about as far as would I buy this wheel and enjoy it. I would buy the Nikola+ for times when I want more speed than KS offers. I started the video by saying here is a list of things I use to evaluate if I would buy a wheel. How you maneuaver in traffic is totally up to you and your style. Some guys think speed helps them get ahead of cars, some think more torque lets them maneuver around them better. it's TOTALLY subjective.

5) Here in NYC ther skill of the rider matters way more than the wheel for the most part. So I am very good at stopping quickly for pedestrians, maneuvering around cars, avoiding pot holes etc. It's a lot like pod-racing and less like riding a bike. You gotta have the mind of a pilot. Not everyone has that, in which case I wouldn't advise going over 30mph.

6) We live in the USA and stuff works different over here and especially in NYC. I can't help it if the lawmakers in Scandanvia decide to make this illegal in your country. Here we don't have that problem.

7) Am I bad ambassador for EUC community? COMPELTELY! I'm just a guy that loves riding and happened to start making videos since I have the skillset. If you're not a fan, you don't have to watch. But I'm here to uplift the community and continue to show new-comers just how awesome this sport really is!! 

Hope the laws in your country don't make it hard to ride, as that would be sad.

REPLY soon, as I won't be back here for another week or two.

-Mickey

[Unventor]

@MickeyMicklos

You might think traffic work different and you know how drivers think. 

So you are saying the a traffic cop and traffic laws says it is okay to weave back and forth in between lanes and cars, and at high speed too? And that someone stepping out of a car/opening a door will not happen unless you already foreseen it? 

To navigate safely in traffic/City people around you need to be able to see you and anticipate and react accordingly. It might just be I am too narrow sighted that I doubt that is possible with someone dressed all up in black, going 40kmh+ and weaving between car lanes (as you do in your videos, only I can see at what speed). To some it might look cool, but to me that is the kind of behaviour in traffic that pisses off all other around you. This is why I find this to be a bad ambassador for EUC community. 

You might not have laws against this yet, but when serious accidents happens and annoyed people speak up then laws change fast soon. 

I am not saying that it is impossible to ride at high speed, but there are time and places for that. Not between 2 car lanes. 

So if you lower the speed of riding a fraction, then I will argue that some find one wheel more appealing than the other. It is not as all have to pick the same option. The way I use my wheel, the KS16X suit that purpose fantastic. 

When I ride my wheel, I have to think of I just do what I decided to do just because I think it is fun or I have the "skill" to do that.

We are back to my actions can have a huge impact to others around me. I don’t want to have same bad reputation as rental e-scooters do. I am sure you seen this in NYC too. 

[erk1024]

On 10/5/2019 at 5:42 PM, erk1024 said:

So I'm thinking it would be fun (and a good workout) to do some offroad riding, and the Monster is not exactly a climbing wheel. So then I should get one of these wheels with a fat tire and gobs of torque, like the Nikola or 16X.

@Marty Backe

I sold my Kingsong 18XL today and ordered a 100V Nikola+ instead of the 16X. It was a tough choice. I certainly enjoyed the heck out of the 18XL, but once I got the Monster, I didn't find myself riding it. 

The Nikola has the same motor, pedals and similar control board electronics as the 100V Monster V3 that I have. I'm having a blast on the Monster, so this should be more of the same with a little more torque, and a little less roadability. The Nikola seems to have made it through the initial teething issues and is a known quantity, whereas the 16X has a lot of open issues still. There are concerns about high speed current, units being returned to be fixed, electrical crossover from the bluetooth system maybe, ride quirks that Marty mentioned, app/firmware issues, etc.

I plan to use the Nikola+ for off-road, for variety, and when I really need a trolley handle. The 100V electronics should do a good job of handling my weight at speed, and the 1845wh battery is nice to have. Shell durability is a question, but I can pad it up with some neoprene. Even if I do bang up the shell, the side panels can be replaced, or even the entire shell. It would be a big job to replace the shell, but I think I could do it.

Edited October 12, 2019 by erk1024

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, erk1024 said:

@Marty Backe

I sold my Kingsong 18XL today and ordered a 100V Nikola+ instead of the 16X. It was a tough choice. I certainly enjoyed the heck out of the 18XL, but once I got the Monster, I didn't find myself riding it. 

The Nikola has the same motor, pedals and similar control board electronics as the 100V Monster V3 that I have. I'm having a blast on the Monster, so this should be more of the same with a little more torque, and a little less roadability. The Nikola seems to have made it through the initial teething issues and is a known quantity, whereas the 16X has a lot of open issues still. There are concerns about high speed current, units being returned to be fixed, electrical crossover from the bluetooth system maybe, ride quirks that Marty mentioned, app/firmware issues, etc.

I plan to use the Nikola+ for off-road, for variety, and when I really need a trolley handle. The 100V electronics should do a good job of handling my weight at speed, and the 1845wh battery is nice to have. Shell durability is a question, but I can pad it up with some neoprene. Even if I do bang up the shell, the side panels can be replaced, or even the entire shell. It would be a big job to replace the shell, but I think I could do it.

Fantastic  I have a hard time believing that you won't love it. And I like your reasoning that it shares so many of the same components as your Monster. Hard to go wrong.

Look forward to hearing what you think after you get your hands on it.

[evX_Mick]

On 10/11/2019 at 5:37 PM, Unventor said:

@MickeyMicklos

You might think traffic work different and you know how drivers think. 

So you are saying the a traffic cop and traffic laws says it is okay to weave back and forth in between lanes and cars, and at high speed too? And that someone stepping out of a car/opening a door will not happen unless you already foreseen it? 

To navigate safely in traffic/City people around you need to be able to see you and anticipate and react accordingly. It might just be I am too narrow sighted that I doubt that is possible with someone dressed all up in black, going 40kmh+ and weaving between car lanes (as you do in your videos, only I can see at what speed). To some it might look cool, but to me that is the kind of behaviour in traffic that pisses off all other around you. This is why I find this to be a bad ambassador for EUC community. 

You might not have laws against this yet, but when serious accidents happens and annoyed people speak up then laws change fast soon. 

I am not saying that it is impossible to ride at high speed, but there are time and places for that. Not between 2 car lanes. 

So if you lower the speed of riding a fraction, then I will argue that some find one wheel more appealing than the other. It is not as all have to pick the same option. The way I use my wheel, the KS16X suit that purpose fantastic. 

When I ride my wheel, I have to think of I just do what I decided to do just because I think it is fun or I have the "skill" to do that.

We are back to my actions can have a huge impact to others around me. I don’t want to have same bad reputation as rental e-scooters do. I am sure you seen this in NYC too. 

You said: "I am not saying that it is impossible to ride at high speed, but there are time and places for that. Not between 2 car lanes." I disagree. That might be how it works in Sweden but we live in NYC! Scandinavia has a lot more laws & restrictions than we do here in the USA. Your culture is completely different than us here in NYC and your mindset is also different when it comes to proper etiquette. You're just repeating your opion which is totally valid. But know that it's just your opinon. That doesn't make it true for another city across the world. 

Constantly Europeans and Scandinavians are having issue with what we do in NYC and it's kinda funny. We can't help that your countries are swift at making stuff illegal. We have had serious accidents here, but that doesn't stop people from riding freely. This sport is all about freedom, and I'm surprised you haven't experienced that while riding. I hope you come to NYC and ride in traffic with us to see just how fast you need to ride. Please come visit soon!

-M

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

Such discussions are boring and superfluous. 

@MickeyMicklos

Your driving style is dangerous and your arguments are absolutely nonsense. You are not a role model for road safety, no matter where you are in the world. Your videos should therefore be banned. 

But I don't think you want to be a role model for road safety, do you? 

So stand by the fact that you prefer fun and adrenaline instead of sneaking from A to B as safely as possible and stop justifying yourself. 

Do what you like, you only live once, but at least leave uninvolved ones alive. 

What I agree with @Unventor is that you might piss yourself on your leg with all these YT videos. So enjoy your freedom as long as you have it. 

 

[Unventor]

On 10/13/2019 at 2:29 AM, MickeyMicklos said:

You said: "I am not saying that it is impossible to ride at high speed, but there are time and places for that. Not between 2 car lanes." I disagree. That might be how it works in Sweden but we live in NYC! Scandinavia has a lot more laws & restrictions than we do here in the USA. Your culture is completely different than us here in NYC and your mindset is also different when it comes to proper etiquette. You're just repeating your opion which is totally valid. But know that it's just your opinon. That doesn't make it true for another city across the world. 

Constantly Europeans and Scandinavians are having issue with what we do in NYC and it's kinda funny. We can't help that your countries are swift at making stuff illegal. We have had serious accidents here, but that doesn't stop people from riding freely. This sport is all about freedom, and I'm surprised you haven't experienced that while riding. I hope you come to NYC and ride in traffic with us to see just how fast you need to ride. Please come visit soon!

-M

I can only hope if you get into an accident that those affected in the damage you cause with you ride style will sue you to the maximum extent they can. From the impression (I don’t live there so it is impression only) I have that can be a pretty expensive affair. And only hope some kid doesn't get hurt in the process. 

Argument about how traffic is different, do not take away how physics work. 

I rarely say I hope for someone to get hurt but some people are just outside reach of common sense. 

I wounder if the freedom you speak of feels as great in jail too if you severely hurt some one. 

For clarification.  I do not want people to get hurt. But as I tried to get across you might not care for other people around you and that is not showing respect of others too. The huge difference here is how this impact the rider, but also how a lost wheel will keep running  (just thinking of the resent event in LA games ending up in water). That said you can do thinks in one country and you are free to choose. But Laws are made out to avoid things in other countries and this point seems to disregarded also. 

I do apologize for reacting, as moderator I should know better. But in the end I stand by how traffic safety rule are applied, the ride style would not be allowed in any country I know of here in Europe. I don't want to hurt anymore. I merely refer to the actions of the ride style is going to do that on the rider himself( his choice). . On the other hand I will call the famous US statement too: freedom of speech and right to my opinion.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Unventor
As this was reported

[phatmike]

On 10/8/2019 at 10:18 PM, photorph said:

We are doing over a 1000 shipments a month

Can you please tell us (if you can) the percentage of the different brands? How many Gotway,kingsong etc.etc.? Thanks

[photorph]

6 hours ago, phatmike said:

Can you please tell us (if you can) the percentage of the different brands? How many Gotway,kingsong etc.etc.? Thanks

Cannot, and even Jason would have to do a bit of work to get this info together.  There's a lot going on besides just sales.  I'm also not sure if the manufacturers would appreciate this info going out. 

 

I can tell you that scooter sales have surpassed EUCs to be 70% of the sales.  

[erk1024]

On 10/12/2019 at 6:20 PM, erk1024 said:

I sold my Kingsong 18XL today and ordered a 100V Nikola+ instead of the 16X. It was a tough choice. I certainly enjoyed the heck out of the 18XL, but once I got the Monster, I didn't find myself riding it. 

Just to follow up, I figured I'd give you guys my first impressions of the Nikola+.

It's a great wheel. I think I see what @Marty Backe likes about it. The fat 3" width and the pliable tire compound makes for a comfortable ride. Much better than my 18XL, and almost as comfortable as the Monster V3. But at the same time, it has more torque and zippiness. Getting up to 50kph is effortless and it feels stable as well. I don't get acceleration or speed wobbles, but I have gotten some brake wobbles. Probably just need to adjust my foot position back a smidge. It's also nice to have a trolley handle! And it's more portable than the Monster. I don't mind the wide handle at all. 

This could become my primary wheel! (Just have to sort out an issue with the fan...)

[photorph]

2 hours ago, erk1024 said:

Just to follow up, I figured I'd give you guys my first impressions of the Nikola+.

It's a great wheel. I think I see what @Marty Backe likes about it. The fat 3" width and the pliable tire compound makes for a comfortable ride. Much better than my 18XL, and almost as comfortable as the Monster V3. But at the same time, it has more torque and zippiness. Getting up to 50kph is effortless and it feels stable as well. I don't get acceleration or speed wobbles, but I have gotten some brake wobbles. Probably just need to adjust my foot position back a smidge. It's also nice to have a trolley handle! And it's more portable than the Monster. I don't mind the wide handle at all. 

This could become my primary wheel! (Just have to sort out an issue with the fan...)

It's pretty evident that gotway is far ahead in the race currently, specially when you consider KS16x vs nikola.  I like the KS16x as my <25 mph wheel when going in/out of places.  But if you only could pick one, hard to imagine many picking the KS16x over the nikola given all the issues.  

[Nic]

10 hours ago, photorph said:

It's pretty evident that gotway is far ahead in the race currently, specially when you consider KS16x vs nikola.  I like the KS16x as my <25 mph wheel when going in/out of places.  But if you only could pick one, hard to imagine many picking the KS16x over the nikola given all the issues.  

Not that hard ... I would pick the KS16x over the Nikola.

But I would be very happy with either wheel.

 

Edited October 24, 2019 by Nic

[EvoKnvl]

2 hours ago, Nic said:

Not that hard ... I would pick the KS16x over the Nikola.

But I would be very happy with either wheel.

 

I actually looked and tested a Nikola 84V initially.  A 16x popped up for sale, which I immediately grabbed.  So I guess I picked a 16x over a Nikola...