My 84-volt Nikola Triumphs, Tribulations, and Failures

[Unventor]

9 minutes ago, stephen said:

Where you buy it 😊

https://eunicycles.eu/en/16-inch/134-king-song-ks-16x-1554wh.html

Since I live in Sweden, this is one of the closest dealers near me. And within EU. I bought spareparts from this store before. When my first EUC misused my trust in them. 

This is the daunting part. Finding a dealer to trust, and you expect to be in business in the future too. 

Main reason for not going to www.speedyfeet.co.uk is brexit... 

Edited June 14, 2019 by Unventor

[Marty Backe]

Overheat Hill Smokes My Nikola

I just returned from my mountain stress testing of the Nikola and it utterly failed (nothing like the smell of burnt MOSFETs in the morning).

So I owe all you guys an apology for defending Gotway's decision to revert back to the smaller MOSFETs. What can I say?

It's still a beautiful wheel, and as you'll see, it does have amazing low-end torque and was running cooler than any other wheel other than the MCM5. But it looks like the electronics aren't up to the task. So if you have a Nikola or are thinking of getting one, don't ride it in tough high-ampere conditions. Note that my 5100-ft climb to 10,500-feet was a non-issue. So I think most riding conditions will be fine. But if you live in San Francisco, etc., be cautious and monitor your power consumption. 

Video at 10 

Edited June 14, 2019 by Marty Backe

[Peter Q]

4 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Overheat Hill Smokes My Nikola

I just returned from my mountain stress testing of the Nikola and it utterly failed (nothing like the smell of burnt MOSFETs in the morning).

So I owe all you guys an apology for defending Gotway's decision to revert back to the smaller MOSFETs. What can I say?

It's still a beautiful wheel, and as you'll see, it does have amazing low-end torque and was running cooler than any other wheel other than the MCM5. But it looks like the electronics aren't up to the task. So if you have a Nikola or are thinking getting one, don't ride it in tough high-ampere conditions. Note that my 5100-ft climb to 10,500-feet was a non-issue. So I think most riding conditions will be fine. But if you live in San Francisco, etc., be cautious and monitor your power consumption. 

Video at 10 

So sorry to hear that, hope you ok. Is the Nikola need new board? standing by for the video.

Thanks for all your testing on the new wheels.

Peter Q

[Marty Backe]

4 hours ago, Unventor said:

Thank you.

Today I bought it.... the KS16X of awesomeness

So right now I am just waiting for the KS16X order to arrive at my doorstep. I hope I like it better than @Marty Backe  his NIkola. 

So if you get by Gotenburg this sommer. Please let me know, we might meet up and you get to expirearance KS wheels 😉

 

Congrat's   Was there any doubt that you were buying a 16X. I would be shocked if it's not a fantastic wheel. Hope you get it before winter starts 

[Yunicycle]

10 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Overheat Hill Smokes My Nikola

I just returned from my mountain stress testing of the Nikola and it utterly failed (nothing like the smell of burnt MOSFETs in the morning).

So I owe all you guys an apology for defending Gotway's decision to revert back to the smaller MOSFETs. What can I say?

It's still a beautiful wheel, and as you'll see, it does have amazing low-end torque and was running cooler than any other wheel other than the MCM5. But it looks like the electronics aren't up to the task. So if you have a Nikola or are thinking getting one, don't ride it in tough high-ampere conditions. Note that my 5100-ft climb to 10,500-feet was a non-issue. So I think most riding conditions will be fine. But if you live in San Francisco, etc., be cautious and monitor your power consumption. 

Video at 10 

Disappointed to hear the Nikola was having trouble with overheat hill, especially given the relatively cool and overcast weather we are having here in southern California.

[Marty Backe]

7 minutes ago, Peter Q said:

So sorry to hear that, hope you ok. Is the Nikola need new board? standing by for the video.

Thanks for all your testing on the new wheels.

Peter Q

I'm literally resting and recovering from the experience of dragging a huge dead wheel down a mountain. The Nikola is still on, blinking some mysterious code (it's  probably laughing at me). After I've gained my energy back I'll open it up and see the state of affairs.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Marty Backe

[Nils]

5 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Overheat Hill Smokes My Nikola

I just returned from my mountain stress testing of the Nikola and it utterly failed (nothing like the smell of burnt MOSFETs in the morning).

So I owe all you guys an apology for defending Gotway's decision to revert back to the smaller MOSFETs. What can I say?

It's still a beautiful wheel, and as you'll see, it does have amazing low-end torque and was running cooler than any other wheel other than the MCM5. But it looks like the electronics aren't up to the task. So if you have a Nikola or are thinking getting one, don't ride it in tough high-ampere conditions. Note that my 5100-ft climb to 10,500-feet was a non-issue. So I think most riding conditions will be fine. But if you live in San Francisco, etc., be cautious and monitor your power consumption. 

Video at 10 

No! What?? Ah man..

This just gets me down.. While I don't see this being a problem for me in my environment since it's cooler than yours, I'm left just feeling tired of it all. I'm reminded of another recent post I read complaining of the manufacturers not learning stuff and basically repeating the same mistakes (sorry, can't remember whose post it was, link me up if you know). Inmotion screwed up the V10F by cheapening out on both electronics and ingress protection, Gotway now regresses on the MOSFETs (smarter firmware compensating for it obviously just a blatant lie). How much could they actually save by this in their books?? In Inmotion's case I'd say it was a very costly miscalculation at any rate, but for Gotway to regress in this way following the MSX just says stupid cheap skates as well.

I can't say KS regressed in the same way, but they apparently seem hellbent to make new mistakes by adding geo-based speed restrictions or stupid binding things instead. Anyway, even given that the KS16X got a good boost now provided it holds up.

Anyway, very sorry for your wheel and the discomforts suffered, hope @Jason McNeil can assist in sorting you out. Now screw this, I'm going to sleep, perhaps that will help

 

[Dzlchef]

27 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Overheat Hill Smokes My Nikola

I just returned from my mountain stress testing of the Nikola and it utterly failed (nothing like the smell of burnt MOSFETs in the morning).

So I owe all you guys an apology for defending Gotway's decision to revert back to the smaller MOSFETs. What can I say?

It's still a beautiful wheel, and as you'll see, it does have amazing low-end torque and was running cooler than any other wheel other than the MCM5. But it looks like the electronics aren't up to the task. So if you have a Nikola or are thinking getting one, don't ride it in tough high-ampere conditions. Note that my 5100-ft climb to 10,500-feet was a non-issue. So I think most riding conditions will be fine. But if you live in San Francisco, etc., be cautious and monitor your power consumption. 

Video at 10 

That’s sad to hear, especially having to tote that heavy wheel down that grade and distance.  Hope the fix includes larger MOSFETs. 

[Marty Backe]

4 minutes ago, Nils said:

No! What?? Ah man..

This just gets me down.. While I don't see this being a problem for me in my environment since it's cooler than yours, I'm left just feeling tired of it all. I'm reminded of another recent post I read complaining of the manufacturers not learning stuff and basically repeating the same mistakes (sorry, can't remember whose post it was, link me up if you know). Inmotion screwed up the V10F by cheapening out on both electronics and ingress protection, Gotway now regresses on the MOSFETs (smarter firmware compensating for it obviously just a blatant lie). How much could they actually save by this in their books?? In Inmotion's case I'd say it was a very costly miscalculation at any rate, but for Gotway to regress in this way following the MSX just says stupid cheap skates as well.

I can't say KS regressed in the same way, but they apparently seem hellbent to make new mistakes by adding geo-based speed restrictions or stupid binding things instead. Anyway, even given that the KS16X got a good boost now provided it holds up.

Anyway, very sorry for your wheel and the discomforts suffered, hope @Jason McNeil can assist in sorting you out. Now screw this, I'm going to sleep, perhaps that will help

 

Thanks 

I'll get over it. This isn't my first disappointment. Given that it's 2019 it does seem like Gotway is regressing a bit.

I have plenty of wheels to keep me entertained until I can get a new control board.

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, Dzlchef said:

That’s sad to hear, especially having to tote that heavy wheel down that grade and distance.  Hope the fix includes larger MOSFETs. 

I am going to see if by chance a Plus board (with the bigger MOSFETs) will work in my Nikola. We'll see what Jason/Gotway says.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Marty Backe

[eddiemoy]

34 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Overheat Hill Smokes My Nikola

I just returned from my mountain stress testing of the Nikola and it utterly failed (nothing like the smell of burnt MOSFETs in the morning).

So I owe all you guys an apology for defending Gotway's decision to revert back to the smaller MOSFETs. What can I say?

It's still a beautiful wheel, and as you'll see, it does have amazing low-end torque and was running cooler than any other wheel other than the MCM5. But it looks like the electronics aren't up to the task. So if you have a Nikola or are thinking getting one, don't ride it in tough high-ampere conditions. Note that my 5100-ft climb to 10,500-feet was a non-issue. So I think most riding conditions will be fine. But if you live in San Francisco, etc., be cautious and monitor your power consumption. 

Video at 10 

Sorry to hear Marty and thanks for always doing these crazy tests.  Even though only maybe a handful of people would ever push their wheel to this point.  It is still good to know what the weak link is.  And as most of us know, there are no fuses in the GW's.  Before they moved to the bigger mosfets on the MSX, their wheels would self-destruct like this.  

I'm afraid that even if they did have the bigger mosfets, the motor wire insulation would melt and you would have a short circuit.  

I hope GW is listening...

[Unventor]

36 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Congrat's   Was there any doubt that you were buying a 16X. I would be shocked if it's not a fantastic wheel. Hope you get it before winter starts 

Uhhh that is harsh... Winter in California is the 14 and 15 month of 12 in a year right? 🤨😒

[meepmeepmayer]

45 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Overheat Hill Smokes My Nikola

FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU🤬

• I can't believe they regressed back to ACM/msuper V3 level electronics. Not even overheating, just the good old board fry. What's wrong with these people??!!
• Please make a video. Including both the fall and the autopsy. Public visibility of problems is one of the only things making manufacturers change things.
• I really, really hope your Nikola will just be the first batch, beta-version in a year. And both the 84V and 100V future versions will all have the TO-247 board that the 100V Nikola Plus alread has.

Thanks for your sacrifices, Marty, it is appreciated

Can't wait to see what unnecessary first batch problem the 16X is going to have (let's be realistic). So much for my new wheel dream this year. I should have bought an MSX a year ago.

[Rehab1]

54 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I'm literally resting and recovering from the experience of dragging a huge dead wheel down a mountain. The Nikola is still on, blinking some mysterious code (it's  probably laughing at me). After I've gained my energy back I'll open it up and see the state of affairs.

Bummer! The things you put yourself through to educate the community.

Being a cynic I think your other wheels got together last night and sabotaged the new kid on the block. 

[Marty Backe]

8 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Bummer! The things you put yourself through to educate the community.

Being a cynic I think your other wheels got together last night and sabotaged the new kid on the block. 

And thanks. I was really hoping it would do great.

[Peter Q]

9 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Bummer! The things you put yourself through to educate the community.

Being a cynic I think your other wheels got together last night and sabotaged the new kid on the block. 

Maybe not all his wheels did that, just the ACM2.

[stephen]

So Marty apart from the blown mosfets how was the wheel holding up against those hills and rough terrain etc you have there..

I feel for you humping the heavy weight back down the hill .. We do appreciate your tests or any video tbh . 

I know you have many wheels for trail rides would it put you off going into the mountains or just the extreme hills .

Thanks again looking forward to any video you managed to put together 👍

 

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Congrat's   Was there any doubt that you were buying a 16X. I would be shocked if it's not a fantastic wheel. Hope you get it before winter starts 

Ahh somehow I managed to miss your missfortune today. 😒

Honourestly I had hope it would had done better. (compatition between the few brands making this is important for diversity and pushing progress). 😕

Maybe you can get the KS16X tour scheduled around back to your place. (sorry not meant to be cheeky) 

I don't know what GW used, but KS should use TO-247 mosfets, but I didn't see if they are like 6 or 12 of them. 

I hope you can persuade GW for a free of charge fix. It is not like you are not promoting them. And with the number of wheels you have from them. 

Community comfort hug goes out to you @Marty Backe  (best smile I could find) 

Edited June 14, 2019 by Unventor

[Rama Douglas]

1 hour ago, Dzlchef said:

That’s sad to hear, especially having to tote that heavy wheel down that grade and distance.  Hope the fix includes larger MOSFETs. 

It looked like when Vano got his, before riding, he and Nevin opened it up and replaced some components...Maybe his would survive Overheat Hill?!? 

 

[Marty Backe]

28 minutes ago, stephen said:

So Marty apart from the blown mosfets how was the wheel holding up against those hills and rough terrain etc you have there..

I feel for you humping the heavy weight back down the hill .. We do appreciate your tests or any video tbh . 

I know you have many wheels for trail rides would it put you off going into the mountains or just the extreme hills .

Thanks again looking forward to any video you managed to put together 👍

 

The wheel was handling the hills beautifully. Lots of torque and it was running super cool (warmer than the MCM5 but maybe cooler than the MSX). It's just the tiny MOSFETs can't handle the current.

Of course I'll still enjoy all my mountain trails. I'll even take the fixed Nikola into the hills, but I'll avoid any super-tough (steep) trails in the future.

Thanks 

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU🤬

• I can't believe they regressed back to ACM/msuper V3 level electronics. Not even overheating, just the good old board fry. What's wrong with these people??!!
• Please make a video. Including both the fall and the autopsy. Public visibility of problems is one of the only things making manufacturers change things.
• I really, really hope your Nikola will just be the first batch, beta-version in a year. And both the 84V and 100V future versions will all have the TO-247 board that the 100V Nikola Plus alread has.

Thanks for your sacrifices, Marty, it is appreciated

Can't wait to see what unnecessary first batch problem the 16X is going to have (let's be realistic). So much for my new wheel dream this year. I should have bought an MSX a year ago.

I thought you might be a little disappointed  But there's always the Plus model with the TO-247's.

The 90-amp alarm was triggering like crazy. So this wheel has great low-end torque, but it's sucking up the amps to deliver. Big mistake to save a couple of $$$ and go small.. Maybe Gotway will have learned their lesson, but I wouldn't put money on it 

Oh yeah, I have everything on video, including my faceplant   Going out to the workshop now to open it up...

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, Nils said:

No! What?? Ah man..

This just gets me down.. While I don't see this being a problem for me in my environment since it's cooler than yours, I'm left just feeling tired of it all. I'm reminded of another recent post I read complaining of the manufacturers not learning stuff and basically repeating the same mistakes (sorry, can't remember whose post it was, link me up if you know). Inmotion screwed up the V10F by cheapening out on both electronics and ingress protection, Gotway now regresses on the MOSFETs (smarter firmware compensating for it obviously just a blatant lie). How much could they actually save by this in their books?? In Inmotion's case I'd say it was a very costly miscalculation at any rate, but for Gotway to regress in this way following the MSX just says stupid cheap skates as well.

I can't say KS regressed in the same way, but they apparently seem hellbent to make new mistakes by adding geo-based speed restrictions or stupid binding things instead. Anyway, even given that the KS16X got a good boost now provided it holds up.

Anyway, very sorry for your wheel and the discomforts suffered, hope @Jason McNeil can assist in sorting you out. Now screw this, I'm going to sleep, perhaps that will help

 

Thanks. Please note that the board burned up because of excessive current and small MOSFETs. This was not a heat related problem (my weather vs yours). The Nikola was actually running super cool.

So you are at risk if riding in steep terrain. As long as you stop when the 90-amp alarm starts triggering continuously you'll be OK. But again, this had nothing to do with temperatures.

Yeah, Jason will get me up and running again. No worries there.

 

Edited June 14, 2019 by Marty Backe

[Sketch]

I’m sorry to hear about this Marty.  I can imaging how frustrating this must be.  It seemed like Gotway was on the right track with the MCM5 and MSX. I’m kind of surprised they went with the smaller MOSFETs on the Nikola.  Seems like a great wheel otherwise and an easy modification for Gotway to change.  Good to know the plus version has the larger MOSFETs.  I appreciate you doing these tests.  I’m sure there are much more enjoyable trails than overheat hill you could ride on. You choose to test these wheels to help the community and fully disclose the outcome to benefit us all.  Much appreciated.

[Marty Backe]

4 minutes ago, Sketch said:

I’m sorry to hear about this Marty.  I can imaging how frustrating this must be.  It seemed like Gotway was on the right track with the MCM5 and MSX. I’m kind of surprised they went with the smaller MOSFETs on the Nikola.  Seems like a great wheel otherwise and an easy modification for Gotway to change.  Good to know the plus version has the larger MOSFETs.  I appreciate you doing these tests.  I’m sure there are much more enjoyable trails than overheat hill you could ride on. You choose to test these wheels to help the community and fully disclose the outcome to benefit us all.  Much appreciated.

Thanks Matt!

Yeah, I certainly don't ride Overheat Hill for pleasure. If not for testing I would probably avoid it most days. I had a nice Nikola ride planned for Sunday. I'll have to make do with another wheel.

[Rama Douglas]

3 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Thanks Matt!

Yeah, I certainly don't ride Overheat Hill for pleasure. If not for testing I would probably avoid it most days. I had a nice Nikola ride planned for Sunday. I'll have to make do with another wheel.

Oooh! Sunday? Do tell ...