JonTheMad Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 @Henrik Olsen so the euc is only permitted if it is not constructed for a higher speed than 20 kmh? You said they don't have to clock your speed, they just have to look at the specs and if the specs is higher than 20 kmh = they take the wheel? If this is the case, wouldn't it help if you could claim that your wheel is set on the fabric speed and that you haven't downloaded the necessary app or apk file to unlock a higher speed than the legal 20 kmh? I mean you can trim a moped as well to illegal speeds, but as long as you don't do that you are still driving a legal vehicle, right? Just a thought. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 (edited) @JonTheMad one thing is law texts, another this if it makes sense or is reasonable. It is still a law made by people that do not share our passion or interest att all. Look at from the other side of the table, they are making easy to enforce, less options to fight or argue a dismissal. All in the effort of saying: we don't like these on the roads or public traffic. At this stage government hold the winning hand, and EUC manufacturers do address this with the effort needed. 😞 IMHO they should start lobbying at EU. Get an EU acceptance this is a modern transport assisting combat co2 emission and traffic and parking. If lobby succeed then country rules will not matter much anymore. One way I see this happening is to bring mandatory helmet and some sort of license. Again this might not be some in this community cub of tea, but a ban will hurt more than country and the EU region. 🤔 The sooner we accept this the sooner we can push to some level of practical use. I rather not go back to using my car as I did before. Time will tell if I am right in the above. Personally the it is going right now I see more restrictions coming even a full ban. 😔 Note: I am not fully aware of how it is in Holland but I like the idea to register an EUC and mandatory insurance. That way you have a market for companies to offer insurance and you don't end up broke if someone gets hurt and sue you. Same as if you ride a moped in my view. Edited June 3, 2019 by Unventor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 Just to put above in context. I saw a news flash in Sweden that transport authority recommend some level of ban and further control of escootors due to a fatality accident last week. In Denmark, the capital city Council is pushing a top limit of how many units they allow rental companies to have in the streets at any given point. Again something that hit the news in Denmark today. Looking how we have seen wheels sieged in Ireland, U K and Germany too. It is beginning to form a groom picture of EUCs in Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonTheMad Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 This is a very disturbing development indeed and most is based out of ignorance. Very sad. As of this very moment euc is not banned in sweden but it got this 20 kmh restriction just like in denmark. As far as I know the authorities are not targeting euc riders (yet) but the bad publicity the escooter rentals issue has been having for the last few weeks might for sure make matters worse for euc riders as well... Still, if someone would have his wheel seized by the authorities it would be very interesting to see how the ruling would be in a court of law if the defendant claims that the speed has been limited to 20 kmh through the app and the authorities fail to prove differently. After all the fate of the Segway got decided in a court if law back in 2009 when a rider got charged for riding drunk, he claimed the segway was equal to a bike and got right. He did not get convicted for driving drunk. 2010 the legislation cought up and confirmed that the Segway and other self balancing vehicles going max 20 kmh are to be considered equal to bikes. If you got a euc that does 40 kmh but you can prove that you have limited the speed to 20 kmh, how would the ruling be after a trial in a court of law? I am very interested to know but probably the best would be if the authorities didn't target euc drivers at all... but it will happen sooner or later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 2 hours ago, JonTheMad said: If you got a euc that does 40 kmh but you can prove that you have limited the speed to 20 kmh, how would the ruling be after a trial in a court of law? The wording of the law (atleast in most countries that limit the speed) is that the vehicle must not be capable of exceeding the mentioned limit. A 40km/h EUC is, so it is clearly illegal. This is exactly what is unfair towards small electric vehicles. A bicycle that goes 100km/h is as legal as any. In my understanding in Finland it is even legal to ride a bicycle that fast if there is a dedicated bicycle lane next to a highway. The motor on an electric bicycle must switch off at 25km/h, yet the vehicle itself is again legal up to whatever. Enter EUCs, and if the vehicle can go 26km/h, it is illegal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Seized EUCs have been reported not only recently. Yet seizures are quite rare. Most encounters with police in Europe have been to this point in time completely uneventful. Yet, if more and more people ride fully geared up at speeds of >35km/h without insurance and legal permissions, I would expect more seizures to come. How could they not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 28 minutes ago, mrelwood said: The motor on an electric bicycle must switch off at 25km/h, yet the vehicle itself is again legal up to whatever. Enter EUCs, and if the vehicle can go 26km/h, it is illegal. The motor does not need to switch off at the limit speed, and I am sure there is a tolerance as to speed measurements etc. etc. If the firmware implements tiltback and cannot be changed by the user or the service, I except that there will be a way to get technical approval of legality on this side of the equation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 @Henrik Olsen did you Facebook group manage to do any lobbying in Denmark up on the proposed laws? If so how and expected results? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mono said: The motor does not need to switch off at the limit speed, and I am sure there is a tolerance as to speed measurements etc. etc. If the firmware implements tiltback and cannot be changed by the user or the service, I except that there will be a way to get technical approval of legality on this side of the equation. Yes, it would make absolute sense, but since a seized S2 was measured capable of going 27km/h, and the rider heavily fined, I’m not at all sure that the mechanism of a tiltback makes any difference to the police or lawmakers: Thinking about it, unless the other party is familiar with self-balancing vehicles, explaining how tiltback must be faster than the vehicle top speed, will probably sound like a poor excuse trying to get out of trouble. Even here at our dedicated forum, the mechanism of a tiltback is a bit of a mystery to many people. Edited June 4, 2019 by mrelwood 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 6 hours ago, mrelwood said: Yes, it would make absolute sense, but since a seized S2 was measured capable of going 27km/h, and the rider heavily fined, I’m not at all sure that the mechanism of a tiltback makes any difference to the police or lawmakers I am pretty sure the fine was because it was capable of going 27km/h instead of 6km/h (in which case it would be legal in Germany), not because it was capable of 27km/h instead of the specified 24km/h (which is both illegal). I think the poster just wanted to make the point that his wheel is now certified to be faster than specified by the manufacturer. If they would have measured 7km/h they most likely would have let it go without any fine. I wonder whether they measured load free cut off speed, is it that low on the S2? In any case, the usual procedure would be certification before usage, in which case it is much less likely to be confiscated and the certification process can be better adjusted to the working principle of the device. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 I suggested, over a year ago that it would not be much trouble for manufacturers to write country specific firmware, that met with the rules in that country or region if the rule applied over more than one country. I just don't know how to stop people modding their wheel to run some other firmware, Unless the country specific wheels had non up gradable or changeable firmware. Even then, I don't know how to differentiate between country specific wheels and grey-market imports, or even wheels from one country over (both my wheels were bought from different EU countries). Even a unique shell color could be worked around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 It seems to me that this is true for any goods with regulations that change from country to country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Interestingly, while many states now ban distracted walking with a cell phone, Tennessee is now onboard with the most strict cell phone usage for drivers. https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/local/2019/06/26/tennessee-hands-free-law-what-know-cellphone-driving-ban/1440405001/ There were over 24,600 crashes involving distracted drivers, roughly 67 crashes a day, in 2018, according to the Hands Free Tennessee website, and the state had the highest rate of distracting driving deaths, according to a recent study. If you'll remember, Nashville recently banned all eScooters, both shared and private. Now will these cell phone laws...the most strict in the nation... stop people from using them while driving? My guess is that the law will directly result in more drivers crashing, because drivers will now hide their cell phone usage well below their sight lines (ie below the steering wheel instead of on top). May I propose, instead, an alternate method? Simply look at the past usage history of a user (I'm sure Apple and Google have where you are 100% of the time), and assign that user a speed limit. Always on your phone? You get a 15 mph speed limit so that when you ram into something, the damage won't be too bad. Usually on your phone, but not on the highway? 25 mph, with exceptions on the highway. And so on. For eScooters, perhaps simply setting the handlebars one inch apart will make all cell phone usage difficult. Now we could simply have cell phones lock users out via GPS speed detection, but I'm more in favor of doing something somewhat risky so long as we make the result (a crash) expensive but not particularly deadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Olsen Posted July 15, 2019 Author Share Posted July 15, 2019 Pr. July 2019 the situation for Electric Unicycles does not look good in Denmark with the latest update legal situation. This is an update on the latest change in legislation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HippoPig Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 I started learning because were moving to CPH. MSX arrived last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Olsen Posted July 15, 2019 Author Share Posted July 15, 2019 41 minutes ago, HippoPig said: I started learning because were moving to CPH. MSX arrived last week. The question is how hard they are going strike us, but now they forced to do something because it regulated by law Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HippoPig Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Henrik Olsen said: The question is how hard they are going strike us, but now they forced to do something because it regulated by law My thoughts exactly. I currently ride in the U.K. where they are 100% illegal I may put one of these on the wheel when I move https://www.safety-label.co.uk/collections/speed-limit-stickers/products/custom-european-kmh-speed-limit-sticker Edited July 15, 2019 by HippoPig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 This sucks ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Olsen Posted July 15, 2019 Author Share Posted July 15, 2019 1 hour ago, ir_fuel said: This sucks ... That’s mild .. it’s a sad day for our community Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakeParagon Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 I was riding my Gotway Nikola in a little town in the Faroe Islands today when a police officer stopped me and told me that Segways and EUCs are illegal in Denmark and thus Faroe as well. She said that if she saw me riding again then she would give me a fine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterwheel Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) Maybe this has been said, but governments should regulate the behaviour, not the device. Primarily, it should be illegal to travel faster than X/kmh on a sidewalk. Simple change that would apply to everything including bicycles and save police from having to analyze every strange new device to try identify its category and/or capabilities. Edited October 23, 2019 by winterwheel 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigurd Kristensen Posted April 23, 2023 Share Posted April 23, 2023 EN Is it legal to ride on euc's on public roads in denmark DK Er det lovligt at bruge euc's på offentlige veje? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigurd Kristensen Posted April 24, 2023 Share Posted April 24, 2023 Hi! Has anyone had any police incidents where they have caught you on a too high speed euc in denmark? or know anyone that have been? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossi Posted April 24, 2023 Share Posted April 24, 2023 I read a post from someone who had problems with the police in Copenhagen with a Sherman. Sadly I can't find it anymore. I can only find the later offered wheel: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetricUSA Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 Sadly Denmark government were watching YouTube videos of New York City euc riders... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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