denmark The Government SCREWED US - Electric Unicycles Legal Situation

[Henrik Olsen]

 

This is a very sad time for Electric Unicycles in Denmark. The Electric Unicycles Legal Situation 2019 is such that they are becoming illegal again after May 3rd, 2019 because of the recent changes to this pilot scheme, that allowed them from the beginning of 2019.  

 

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by RagingGrandpa
(clarified title)

[Siriussak]

Stupid scum socialists, keep voting them in.

[Henrik Olsen]

1 minute ago, Siriussak said:

Stupid scum socialists, keep voting them in.

The problem with this is people actually invested a lot of money because of this, and now they risk getting it taken away because it is written in the law. Before it was a grey zone, and the police left us alone. 

[Rehab1]

Henrik I’m sure a verbal warning would be issued before a ticket was presented. I hate maladroit laws and myself I would test the law.

Do you expect the officers would use radar guns to clock your speed? Why not try riding behind a fast paced bicycle. That would make it very difficult for them to isolate your EUC for exceding their newly adopted, reprehensible speed limit. 

Edited April 27, 2019 by Rehab1

[LanghamP]

To be fair the banning of electric vehicles, cars excepted, is occuring everywhere with very few exceptions. It's not just Denmark that's entirely eliminating anything that's not a car. Even the venerable bicycle is being caught up in this ban; as consigning bicycles to a bike lane that's being used as a parking lane, then ticketing the bicyclist for moving around the parked cars is a virtual bike ban.

Car ownership, car usage, and miles driven, all by per person (per capital) is increasing worldwide. You'd think governments would be worried about this trend, but no, they are 100% committed to getting everyone in a car and paving every square foot of land with cement.

[Hatchet]

There will never come a day when I believe government is anything other than an evil parasite on the people. I have no person in less regard or respect than a politician - except their liberal media stenographers. 

[tata]

Euc is still such a small community. And it is indeed the hardest to learn among all the electric scooters I can think of and thus people think it is the most dangerous one I guess.

[Henrik Olsen]

42 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Henrik I’m sure a verbal warning will be issued before a ticket is issued. I hate maladroit laws and myself I would test the law.

Do you expect the officers will use radar guns to clock your speed? Why not try riding behind a fast paced bicycle. That would make it very difficult for them to isolate your EUC for exceding their newly adopted, reprehensible speed limit. 

That is the whole problem, they don’t needs to measure us riding as the max speed of wheel is now limited to 20kph, they can just look at spec sheet or measure the max speed of the wheel.

I’m not sure what will happen but now the have the power to take the wheels away  from us. This could end up really expensive :-(

[Hatchet]

The gov't doesn't like to grant liberties to the people unless they are paying heavily for it through licences, insurance, gas taxes, parking, fines and so on.

They force people into cars, then  they tax people to 'stop pollution' 🤡 Clown World indeed. Taxing a problem always is the only solution with gov't ever notice that?

We can get to work everyday with zero emissions, but no, pushing us into gas guzzlers then taxing CO2 to 'make it go away' is the ing government's solution.

For governments there is no power n saying 'yes', you have to force the people to come beg you for their liberty so you can charge them for it.

/rant

 

[Henrik Olsen]

42 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Henrik I’m sure a verbal warning will be issued before a ticket is issued. I hate maladroit laws and myself I would test the law.

Do you expect the officers will use radar guns to clock your speed? Why not try riding behind a fast paced bicycle. That would make it very difficult for them to isolate your EUC for exceding their newly adopted, reprehensible speed limit. 

That is the whole problem, they don’t needs to measure us riding as the max speed of wheel is now limited to 20kph, they can just look at spec sheet or measure the max speed of the wheel.

I’m not sure what will happen but now the have the power to take the wheels away  from us. This could end up really expensive :-(

[Coffee guy]

2 hours ago, tata said:

Euc is still such a small community. And it is indeed the hardest to learn among all the electric scooters I can think of and thus people think it is the most dangerous one I guess.

It may also be because it has a relatively weak lobby to target (of the e-vehicles).. certainly at the behest of the auto industry lobby.

[Rehab1]

1 hour ago, Henrik Olsen said:

That is the whole problem, they don’t needs to measure us riding as the max speed of wheel is now limited to 20kph, they can just look at spec sheet or measure the max speed of the wheel.

Wow....Denmark’s police force must be highly sophisticated where they can easily pull up specifications for every EUC manufactured. Thank god officers in the US are preoccupied fighting real criminals. 

[Marty Backe]

So sad Henrik. I hope maybe the police won't enforce the new rules.

Good luck with your efforts in changing the new rules 

P.s. The sound is great. That's what I do with all my videos. FYI, I bought some Dog Training Clickers that I use to facilitate synchronizing the sound in post.

https://amzn.to/2ZDKApb

Edited April 27, 2019 by Marty Backe

[Sidewalk Enforcer]

Not sure I understand the angst. Is a 20km/h cap  really the end of EUCs? Sure it seems a bit daft to cap some vehicles in shared paths and not others - it would be safer if all vehicles on a shared path travelled at similar speeds. From my experience I rarely exceed 20, my average is more like 12km/h on a typical commute. Cyclists regularly go cruising past me (them on the road, me on the footpaths). Here in NZ the transport authority is mulling over a 10km/h cap!

To clarify, yes I agree that the legislation is poorly drafted, but I don't understand how that correlates with the end of EUCs in Denmark.

Edited April 27, 2019 by Sidewalk Enforcer
Fixed units

[Marty Backe]

33 minutes ago, Sidewalk Enforcer said:

Not sure I understand the angst. Is a 20km/h cap  really the end of EUCs? Sure it seems a bit daft to cap some vehicles in shared paths and not others - it would be safer if all vehicles on a shared path travelled at similar speeds. From my experience I rarely exceed 20, my average is more like 12km/h on a typical commute. Cyclists regularly go cruising past me (them on the road, me on the footpaths). Here in NZ the transport authority is mulling over a 10km/h cap!

To clarify, yes I agree that the legislation is poorly drafted, but I don't understand how that correlates with the end of EUCs in Denmark.

It's all in the eye of the beholder, isn't it? You would have no angst. Great. But clearly many if not most people are and would be greatly concerned with such a limit.

All the people buying KingSong and Gotway wheels are not doing so because they enjoy being limited to 20km/h

I can understand why some would not be concerned with this. In return, I would hope those people would have empathy for the those who are affected.

[Sidewalk Enforcer]

29 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

It's all in the eye of the beholder, isn't it? You would have no angst. Great. But clearly many if not most people are and would be greatly concerned with such a limit.

All the people buying KingSong and Gotway wheels are not doing so because they enjoy being limited to 20km/h

I can understand why some would not be concerned with this. In return, I would hope those people would have empathy for the those who are affected.

A lack a empathy was not what I was going for, sorry if that's how it came across. I think, in my bleary-eyed Sunday morning state, it was the hyperbole irked me.

My personal advocacy position is that EUCs should be at parity with cyclists under the law, but all these countries seem to be pursuing them as "foreign" and "other" and "think of the children"  etc. Legislation invariably informed by/ influenced by people who have had no exposure to these wonderful creations - PEVs. 

Edited April 27, 2019 by Sidewalk Enforcer

[Daniel-Son]

It seems to me the problem isn’t with the speed limit, its with how much speed your EUC produces. Forcing you to buy a underpowered EUC in order to be legal. That would make any EUC rider very upset. Underpowered = Face-plant...not good. 

[Mono]

Let's face reality. AFAICS, there is nothing particularly wrong with a law that limits by design the speed (and weight) of those EUCs that can be driven without requiring a drivers license. To think otherwise is, to all I can see, frankly, self-centered non-sense (sorry for the frank language). Sure, the specific limit that may be the best compromise (for all people involved with pretty different stakes) is up to debate and such laws are not relevant or necessary in areas where one single human lives in every other square mile. But the other half of humanity lives in quite densely populated areas and there is no realistic or even reasonable alternative to design limitations of EUCs used in public spaces, AFAICS (always happy to learn).

On a side note, claiming that EUCs don't have build-in speed limits because it "needs extra power" to sustain those limits doesn't work in favor of the credibility of the messenger. Neither is it true nor is it the reason. The reason why EUCs generally don't have more restrictive speed limits is because users don't won't them, it's not because speed limits are not technically feasible or unreasonably power demanding or even unsafe.

AFAICS, the only way how to win an argument here is to understand and accept that either EUCing remains a fringe phenomenon below the radar or there is no way around a speed limit --- and consequently the only argument to win would be an argument about the specific speed number. Otherwise, only EUC users will be able to take the arguments seriously.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Mono said:

Let's face reality. AFAICS, there is nothing particularly wrong with a law that limits by design the speed (and weight) of those EUCs that can be driven without requiring a drivers license. To think otherwise is, to all I can see, frankly, self-centered non-sense (sorry for the frank language). Sure, the specific limit that may be the best compromise (for all people involved with pretty different stakes) is up to debate and such laws are not relevant or necessary in areas where one single human lives in every other square mile. But the other half of humanity lives in quite densely populated areas and there is no realistic or even reasonable alternative to design limitations of EUCs used in public spaces, AFAICS (always happy to learn).

On a side note, claiming that EUCs don't have build-in speed limits because it "needs extra power" to sustain those limits doesn't work in favor of the credibility of the messenger. Neither is it true nor is it the reason. The reason why EUCs generally don't have more restrictive speed limits is because users don't won't them, it's not because speed limits are not technically feasible or unreasonably power demanding or even unsafe.

AFAICS, the only way how to win an argument here is to understand and accept that either EUCing remains a fringe phenomenon below the radar or there is no way around a speed limit --- and consequently the only argument to win would be an argument about the specific speed number. Otherwise, only EUC users will be able to take the arguments seriously.

I do agree that, requiring a high speed capable wheel, for safety is not valid. A wheel can have the power to go 50kph but a hard-code tilt-back speed of 20kph would certainly be doable and would not sacrifice the safety of the rider.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Sidewalk Enforcer said:

A lack a empathy was not what I was going for, sorry if that's how it came across. I think, in my bleary-eyed Sunday morning state, it was the hyperbole irked me.

My personal advocacy position is that EUCs should be at parity with cyclists under the law, but all these countries seem to be pursuing them as "foreign" and "other" and "think of the children"  etc. Legislation invariably informed by/ influenced by people who have had no exposure to these wonderful creations - PEVs. 

Understood.

From my perspective, Henrik's comments were not hyperbole. If I just discovered that California was passing such a law, I would literally be panicking because of how I was going to be affected. Henrik looked calm by comparison 

[Unventor]

12 hours ago, Henrik Olsen said:

That is the whole problem, they don’t needs to measure us riding as the max speed of wheel is now limited to 20kph, they can just look at spec sheet or measure the max speed of the wheel.

I’m not sure what will happen but now the have the power to take the wheels away  from us. This could end up really expensive :-(

Good thing is you got your stolen wheel back.

If it had turned up 2 months later...they could have kept it.

I guess this is my last wheel trip to Denmark now for some time. Acutely sitting on the ferry to Denmark as I write this.

[Unventor]

I hope the solution to the situation with the law in Denmark and somewhat Sweden, that they go down the licence need to go above 20kmh. That they set a bikelave speedlimit that apply to all in that lane so everyone move along at same speed, nof having people blasting past at double speed in a congested lane.

And that the make licence plate similar to how they have in Holland.

I understand that people in US have different opinions. But to allow the EUC to be part of traffic it makes sense there are laws to regulate EUCs too.

I bought my EUC for 3 reasons.

A)  To have an alternative to my car due to traffic is getting rediculous in Gothenburg. Parking is expensive and getting more impossible too.

I use my wheel as a form of training. Yes I could go to a gym, but the EUC riding works a lot better for me. And I get out more now. 

C) After using my EUC wheel more I actually have become more environment aware. It even influence my shopping. As I only buy what I need as I  can only carry so much in a backpack. And since I buy more locally also I don't take up space in traffic with the car. Doing my part to avoid traffic jams expelling exhaust gasses into the city and air.

As a bonus I 95% of the time meet people that are happy and bring a smile to them as people don't know of EUC in general. In the world we live in these days, I can only say it makes my day if I can make someone smile if only for 30min. Peopel are far too stressed, angry and living in their own mind, not taking considerations to others. It is not at all like when I grew up in 1970s and 1980s.

Btw @Henrik Olsen feel free to use my above arguments if you like in your appeal to DK government.

[mrelwood]

The legal situation is similiar in Finland, vehicles above 1000W or capable of over 25km/h are not PLEVs. However, I have not once been stopped by a police during the 2 years and 17000kms, even when slaloming between traffic signs right next to the car lane that a police van drove by.

Also, I’m sure that both features are totally unfamiliar to a police officer, and they wouldn’t know how to check the specs. I could just tell that my MSX is a KS-16B (800W, 25km/h) with a replacement shell, and I’m sure they would be none the wiser. If they’d ask me to ride top speed (they wouldn’t), I would say that I don’t have the guts.

Ride safe and considerate, and slow down if you see one, and the police really shouldn’t be a problem.

Regarding the legal status being unfair, unsafe, stupid etc, of course it is! We’ll just have to make the senseful decisions ourselves.

Edited April 28, 2019 by mrelwood

[Unventor]

So I went to Denmark today and bsck to Sweden again.

Comming bsck at nightfall around 23:40. I hot lost as I really don't ride much in central Gothenburg. It eventually ended up with me riding the the main party street.....

Right into the arms of 1 unmarked police car, 1 mc officer and 2 police vans and some normal police cars I think I counted like 3-4. And I immediately think ohh crap I am now double f...either something bad is going on and I am in the middel of it all or some officer will find time to entertain himself investigating what I am riding.

Luckely I were getting some direction from google maps in my helmet so I slowly crawled out of it all. You inspired me @PogArt Artur 😉

I really dislike riding nights afterajor rainfall, as you get water pools every where and you can't ser through the surface if there isud or a huge pot hole underneath.

I did manage to come home unscaved, with a fully loaded backpack and a sportbag over the side.

[Siriussak]

The people defending the govt make me sick.you people are metnailly ill. The govt can say jumping off cliffs is good for you and you morons would defend it.