denmark The Government SCREWED US - Electric Unicycles Legal Situation

[Rama Douglas]

11 minutes ago, Dave U said:

Are these 2 locations we should stay away from? Are we talking about the Santa Monica Pier and Venice Boardwalk?

Just 2 weeks ago my son and I went for a ride off the Santa Fe Dam/Bike Trail, while riding to the location on the city streets of  Irwindale a patrol officer voiced on his patrol car speaker to "get off the side walk", no pedestrians around.

Yes I was referring to those busy areas with all the new anti anything electric signs and lots of policing going on in crowded areas. My guess is the cop Probably thought you guys were on "motorcycles" of some sort if you were wearing full face helmets. People have described me that way while complaining about me on the phone to their friend while I go past them. There really is a lot of ignorance out there, so hopefully we can put just as much (or more) positive and informative info out there so the public can stop seeing us as bandits from the future hell bent on going Grand Theft Auto on their asses!!! 😜

[Dave U]

4 minutes ago, Rama Douglas said:

My guess is the cop Probably thought you guys were on "motorcycles" of some sort if you were wearing full face helmets.

We were wearing full face helmets.You're probably right.

[Issah]

8 minutes ago, Rama Douglas said:

Yes I was referring to those busy areas with all the new anti anything electric signs and lots of policing going on in crowded areas. My guess is the cop Probably thought you guys were on "motorcycles" of some sort if you were wearing full face helmets. People have described me that way while complaining about me on the phone to their friend while I go past them. There really is a lot of ignorance out there, so hopefully we can put just as much (or more) positive and informative info out there so the public can stop seeing us as bandits from the future hell bent on going Grand Theft Auto on their asses!!! 😜

People are scared of what they don't understand. Kids are basically universally excited or fascinated by my wheel when I ride past. Adults are more of a mixed bag, though the reactions around here are more of fascination and curiosity than dislike. It's up to us "early adopters" to create and maintain a good reputation for ourselves and not encourage uptight and bitter people to make complaints that could lead to trouble.

[Peter Q]

Few months ago, I got stopped by a LA county sheriff officer in patrol car on the bike path near the Santa Fe Dam and told me I cannot ride my KS18AY on the bike path because it is a motorized vehicle, I just say thank you and move on, that was first time happened to me after over 7000+ miles riding EUC.

[Marty Backe]

28 minutes ago, Peter Q said:

Few months ago, I got stopped by a LA county sheriff officer in patrol car on the bike path near the Santa Fe Dam and told me I cannot ride my KS18AY on the bike path because it is a motorized vehicle, I just say thank you and move on, that was first time happened to me after over 7000+ miles riding EUC.

I would have done what he said (while he was looking), but first I would try and politely inform the officer that per AB604, passed into law in 2016, that our wheels are not considered motorized vehicles in the state of California.

When are we going to ride again? You know we are doing a river ride through the Santa Fe Dam area this Saturday morning?

Edited May 16, 2019 by Marty Backe

[Dave U]

6 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I would have done what he said (while he was looking), but first I would try and politely inform the officer that per AB604, passed into law in 2016, that our wheels are not considered motorized vehicles in the state of California.

EUC are not registered.

"Motor vehicle" means a self-propelled device designed for transporting persons or property on a public highway that is required to be registered under Chapter 502, Transportation Code.

[Kens]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

I would have done what he said (while he was looking), but first I would try and politely inform the officer that per AB604, passed into law in 2016, that our wheels are not considered motorized vehicles in the state of California.

Ok I just finished reading this California's law (good read while at work ). Three things that I just learned:

1. We (16yrs and older) can legally ride on highway (that have speed limit of 35mph or less), bikeway, or any other public bicycle path, sidewalk, and trail as long as we wearing fastened bicycle helmet & ride at speed in less than 15 mph.

2. We cannot ride in public school, state university, state college, county park, municipal airport, rapid transit district, transit development board, transit district, public transportation agency, county transportation commission, joint powers agency operating or managing a commuter rail system, or state, county, or hospital district institution or building, or educational institution, or harbor district.

3. We are classified as 'Electrically motorized board' and lawfully different than electric skateboard (They cannot ride on any sidewalk, roadway, or any other part of a highway or on any bikeway, bicycle path or trail, equestrian trail, or hiking or recreational trail).

 

I'm gonna start calling my EUC an EMoB from now..

Edited May 16, 2019 by Kens

[Flying W]

1 hour ago, Kens said:

Ok I just finished reading this California's law (good read while at work ). Three things that I just learned:

1. We (16yrs and older) can legally ride on highway (that have speed limit of 35mph or less), bikeway, or any other public bicycle path, sidewalk, and trail as long as we wearing fastened bicycle helmet & ride at speed in less than 15 mph.

2. We cannot ride in public school, state university, state college, county park, municipal airport, rapid transit district, transit development board, transit district, public transportation agency, county transportation commission, joint powers agency operating or managing a commuter rail system, or state, county, or hospital district institution or building, or educational institution, or harbor district.

3. We are classified as 'Electrically motorized board' and lawfully different than electric skateboard (They cannot ride on any sidewalk, roadway, or any other part of a highway or on any bikeway, bicycle path or trail, equestrian trail, or hiking or recreational trail).

 

I'm gonna start calling my EUC an EMoB from now..

I had no idea there was a ruling on these wonderful devices. Does the 15mph speed limit apply if on the road or bike lane? 

[Dave U]

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

When are we going to ride again?

Head for the hills , the Marshalls are coming to town! 

[Marty Backe]

43 minutes ago, Dave U said:

Head for the hills , the Marshalls are coming to town! 

You may be watching too much TV in your newfound retirement 

[Kens]

3 hours ago, Flying W said:

I had no idea there was a ruling on these wonderful devices. Does the 15mph speed limit apply if on the road or bike lane? 

Yes! 

"21294(b) A person shall not operate an electrically motorized board upon a highway [I assume this is regular road with speed limit below 35mph], bikeway, or any other public bicycle path, sidewalk, or trail, at a speed in excess of 15 miles per hour."

So just slow down if you see a police like what most people do on the freeway..

[Marty Backe]

21 minutes ago, Kens said:

Yes! 

"21294(b) A person shall not operate an electrically motorized board upon a highway [I assume this is regular road with speed limit below 35mph], bikeway, or any other public bicycle path, sidewalk, or trail, at a speed in excess of 15 miles per hour."

So just slow down if you see a police like what most people do on the freeway..

Just be prepared to still follow their direction to stop riding where you are riding. We've have more that one encounter with policing agencies and they aren't very interested in being educated as to why our EUC's are not motor vehicles. But you can feel good knowing that you are in the right and when push comes to shove, they'll lose.

[Dave U]

9 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Just be prepared to still follow their direction to stop riding where you are riding. We've have more that one encounter with policing agencies and they aren't very interested in being educated as to why our EUC's are not motor vehicles. But you can feel good knowing that you are in the right and when push comes to shove, they'll lose.

Best policy is always be polite and don't argue with the badge, If push comes to shove. Better to get off the EUC and trolley it away than risking a citation.

Its rare when a cop will say something, usually they want to now about these wheels and ask questions like any other person. I encountered  2 sheriffs on the river bike trails we ride on, both times they see me coming and see me whisk away past them without them telling me to stop.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Dave U

[Mono]

13 hours ago, LanghamP said:

The problem is that the rider, having hit tiltback many times, will then ignore tiltback because it's not scary enough. How, then, do we make wheels put the fear back into the rider?

We don't need fear. The more extreme the tiltback the more difficult it becomes to stay on the wheel and at some point the rider will just slide off. It seems also clear from the geometry that at some tiltback point it becomes impossible to ride the wheel at constant speed (consider the tiltback where the pedal is vertical, then one could in principle still stand on the pedal tip, but that would always accelerate the wheel). If a rider doesn't fear to slide off, so be it.

 

[Peter Q]

18 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I would have done what he said (while he was looking), but first I would try and politely inform the officer that per AB604, passed into law in 2016, that our wheels are not considered motorized vehicles in the state of California.

When are we going to ride again? You know we are doing a river ride through the Santa Fe Dam area this Saturday morning?

Hi Marty,

We will ride together again soon I'm sure, now saving money for my next wheel- 2400wh 84V Gotway Monster, need that to ride to Long Beach from Home over 60+ miles, long rides are Awesome.

 I ride that same Santa Fe Dam- river path route many times, it was a  40+ miles from my home and so much fun.

And I will be riding that route again early tomorrow too, but will start at 5am from home at San Gabriel, love to ride in the dark before sun rise with flashlight, also because need to be back home in the early AM.

Peter Q

[Smoother]

On 5/16/2019 at 9:53 PM, LanghamP said:

I think that near voltage or speed limits, whatever the hell the limit is (I don't know, it's all a sweet mystery), the wheel should shake and make distress noises so the rider unmistakenly knows the wheel is near its limit, and such cues are familiar to us because combustion engines behave that way.

I put something just like this on my wish list for future improvements. When the wheel starts shaking out of the blue , you REALLY notice it. I discovered this by accident when riding on a very smooth surface my wheel vibrated rapidly for maybe half a second.  As I had recently re-installed the board after it had been repaired for sudden cut out syndrome (I made that name up) I was hyper-vigilant. It turns out I had run over some crunchy vegetable material like a dry twig or something, and the disintegrating material spread out in front of the wheel, creating a crunchy vibration I could feel very clearly through the pedals.  That's when I though a motor stutter routine in the firmware would be infinitely superior to a stupid beeper that no one can hear at speed.   When your motor starts to shake like is about to giver out, it really gets your attention.

[Henrik Olsen]

On 5/16/2019 at 7:49 PM, Unventor said:

@Henrik Olsen so do you have any update from EUC riding rules and laws in Denmark? 

We don’t hear what they have decided until  July 1st at latest, but no news so far. 

[Unventor]

3 hours ago, Henrik Olsen said:

We don’t hear what they have decided until  July 1st at latest, but no news so far. 

I were considering to visit that new spiral tower on Sjælland (Denmark) with a KS16X but I guess that is not happening this summer... 

[Henrik Olsen]

8 hours ago, Unventor said:

I were considering to visit that new spiral tower on Sjælland (Denmark) with a KS16X but I guess that is not happening this summer... 

I’m curious about that tower too

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, Henrik Olsen said:

I’m curious about that tower too

It would make an awesome option for an EUC video and with you skills with drones too. 

If you could get a permission to do it. Better to ask so you don't get into trouble. 

[Smoother]

On 5/19/2019 at 9:13 AM, Unventor said:

It would make an awesome option for an EUC video and with you skills with drones too. 

If you could get a permission to do it. Better to ask so you don't get into trouble. 

Nah! in a mild situation like this (no one is being killed) its easier to ask for forgiveness than permission

EDIT I was referring to the drone flying not the EUC riding.  Riding on private property is, of course, the decision of the property owner or their representative, (witness @Lutalo s son's problem at his Paris university)

Mind you, having said that, I rode many times on Eastbourne Pier, until one day a man (who I knew to be the owner, as he was a big local figure) flagged me down and asked me to stop, for the safety of others.  I politely complied, with no argument, and trolley'd off the pier.  At the average 4 mph I rode on the pier I was no danger to anyone, but,... his property, his rules.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Smoother

[philippe_kruse]

22 hours ago, Unventor said:

It would make an awesome option for an EUC video and with you skills with drones too. 

If you could get a permission to do it. Better to ask so you don't get into trouble. 

I was at the tower some weeks ago. It's definitely possible for you to ride up there, there is a very smooth wooden path going all the way - but I don't think you will be allowed - too many elderly people etc. Maybe if you call ahead and arrange it in advance at a time where the park is closed, you have a chance. Esp. if you combine it with giving them some free marketing maybe.

Also I would hope no one would try something like this without permission? That's exactly what would give EUC a bad name. You already have people being scared at the upper level, clinging on to the guard rail for dear life - if you zip by on a vehicle they've never seen before, you are sure to scare them. Scared people are unhappy people.

In any case you can't, there is a checkpoint at the bottom with an employee checking tickets.

Edited May 20, 2019 by philippe_kruse

[Lutalo]

On 5/17/2019 at 7:17 PM, Smoother said:

I put something just like this on my wish list for future improvements. When the wheel starts shaking out of the blue , you REALLY notice it. I discovered this by accident when riding on a very smooth surface my wheel vibrated rapidly for maybe half a second.  As I had recently re-installed the board after it had been repaired for sudden cut out syndrome (I made that name up) I was hyper-vigilant. It turns out I had run over some crunchy vegetable material like a dry twig or something, and the disintegrating material spread out in front of the wheel, creating a crunchy vibration I could feel very clearly through the pedals.  That's when I though a motor stutter routine in the firmware would be infinitely superior to a stupid beeper that no one can hear at speed.   When your motor starts to shake like is about to giver out, it really gets your attention.

Electric shocks that mildly tase the rider when they reach the limit would be cool. 😂😂😂😂

[LanghamP]

Swedish authorities were waiting for a fatality as per this article; once had they are moving forward with banning eScooters and, presumably (almost certainly) EUC.

Notice the fatality is that the rider struck a car, with a presumption of the rider being at fault, but often the dead rider cannot give his side of the story. 

Cassepierre said that the agency had delayed a ruling on the vehicles because of questions over how to define them. They are neither electric bicycles, which are allowed to travel a maximum of 20km/h and require special breaks, or mopeds. 

 

But he said he now believed they should be banned. 

 

Quite suddenly, over the past year or so, we have seen an almost universal ban on eScooters (EUC, skateboards, kick scooters).

 

The ban is coming.

 

I've always said that when a pedestrian is struck and killed by a driver, the cops immediately fan out and start giving tickets to other pedestrians.

[MetricUSA]

Euc should be in same class as ebikes, with same speed restrictions, period, not motor restrictions. Just like you said with speed limits of cars and motorcycles! Are the cops going to pull every euc over just to check motor size??? No...