KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[Marty Backe]

7 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Save it for the KS16X! Those tests are killer! 

I hope I get a chance to ride the 16X

[Unventor]

5 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I hope I get a chance to ride the 16X

So do I however it has to be before 1st of August 😉

You recall my bet in @Rehab1betting odds log 

Should you decide to take on this mission I will double my bet

[Mike Sacristan]

12 minutes ago, stephen said:

I did a full range test  yesterday i was going to do a post with all the details and videos and screenshots but here's a quick run down lol

I weigh 90kg naked but i didnt ride naked so add another few lol

I pumped tyre up to 40psi ,,i quite liked it actually, a little more on the legs but doesn't bounce up as much when you hit something,,, i was going about 20-27 mph mostly and only stopped a few times so battery drained more at these speeds,

It started beeping at about 25% and was still doing over 20mph when it got to about 15% then it was constant beep 3 times but i did inbetween 15-20 mph and i did that until the pedals kicked back at 0% battery  ,

I don't know what limit it supposed to do below 15% ?

Anyway 35miles at no limit speed (for me ) then 5 miles at around 20mph then 5 miles at 15mph-20mph , 

I have all the videos and screenshots if anyone's interested ,, they are only of wheel log and me riding on low percentage sometimes 0%

Here's some screens not in order but I'm sure you'll work it out lol .

I did like how you can go 15-20mph right until tiltback

They see me scrollin'... they hatin'. 

Awesome test man! I've read that the MSX is supposed to do 45km/h which is almost 28mph. I don't know if I want to find out though.
I think the speeds you were doing at the end were good enough especially at your weight. I weigh 63kg naked. Get ripped or die trying.

45 miles is 72km. At that speed and that weight there isn't much to complain about.
Also after having spent half the day wanking around here on the forum we have come to the conclusion that the expected range difference between a MSX and 18XL would be 10-15% so you would have maybe gotten another 5 miles with lower speeds during the last 2 or 3 miles.

The biggest factor that comes into play besides cold is the wind factor or wind resistance. It increases quite a fair bit at higher speeds so if you would ever NEEEEEED to get more than 72km on a single charge then all you have to do is slow down.

So what we did learn today is that the voltage charts and speed charts for the MSX and 18XL say one thing but real life says another because they don't take voltage drop into account. The world isn't perfectly linear. Which once again puts the Nikola 2100WH in it's own territory for a 16" wheel. And also puts the 100v version with the 1800 battery on equal terms with the expected range of the 16X provided it goes down to 3.0V.

And aaaaaaall of this contributes to the thread, and the members, and the community.

Now my only question is how are we going to find all of this information later on when we need it?
If anybody asks us a question about voltage discharge we can tell them off and bark at them for not using the search function and checking out the 16x rumours thread. 

 

[Unventor]

2 hours ago, Chriull said:

Ks18(x)l where the first. Imo every other wheel before stopped at 3.3.

I am not 100% sure on this, but... 

KS18L starts throttling down at 50% battery. On KS18XL starts throttling around 30%.

But since I rarely ride above 40kmh I never felt this until I pushed acceleration hard to catch balance from standstill waiting for a car completing its turn to a side road crossing my cycle lane. It was never a problem before. I just forgot to take into account the hills slope and that it was uphill. 

So in my daily use I don't push my battery lower than 20% so if it is 3.0v or 3.3v to be stop matters less (to me). 

Putting stress on a battery should only mean you don't get as much effencity over time, meaning lower max charge and/or less recharge cycles. Since battery pack is status tested on power on it shouldn't be risk involved, but you might have to exchange a battery pack sooner = $. 

Or did I get this totally wrong? 

Edited June 11, 2019 by Unventor

[Mike Sacristan]

And if we have to change a battery pack sooner? After 300 charges?
And if every charge was only 50km but still 100% of the battery discharged.
That would be 15000km.

Which brings us to the next question.
What is the maximum mileage anyone has every gotten on one of their wheels?

Do you think you will do more than 10000km on yours?

[Marty Backe]

22 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

They see me scrollin'... they hatin'. 

Awesome test man! I've read that the MSX is supposed to do 45km/h which is almost 28mph. I don't know if I want to find out though.
I think the speeds you were doing at the end were good enough especially at your weight. I weigh 63kg naked. Get ripped or die trying.

45 miles is 72km. At that speed and that weight there isn't much to complain about.
Also after having spent half the day wanking around here on the forum we have come to the conclusion that the expected range difference between a MSX and 18XL would be 10-15% so you would have maybe gotten another 5 miles with lower speeds during the last 2 or 3 miles.

The biggest factor that comes into play besides cold is the wind factor or wind resistance. It increases quite a fair bit at higher speeds so if you would ever NEEEEEED to get more than 72km on a single charge then all you have to do is slow down.

So what we did learn today is that the voltage charts and speed charts for the MSX and 18XL say one thing but real life says another because they don't take voltage drop into account. The world isn't perfectly linear. Which once again puts the Nikola 2100WH in it's own territory for a 16" wheel. And also puts the 100v version with the 1800 battery on equal terms with the expected range of the 16X provided it goes down to 3.0V.

And aaaaaaall of this contributes to the thread, and the members, and the community.

Now my only question is how are we going to find all of this information later on when we need it?
If anybody asks us a question about voltage discharge we can tell them off and bark at them for not using the search function and checking out the 16x rumours thread. 

 

Wait, surely the MSX can easily go faster than 45km/h?, right?

And didn't you just write somewhere that you briefly were riding at 31-mph?

[Marty Backe]

2 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

And if we have to change a battery pack sooner? After 300 charges?
And if every charge was only 50km but still 100% of the battery discharged.
That would be 15000km.

Which brings us to the next question.
What is the maximum mileage anyone has every gotten on one of their wheels?

Do you think you will do more than 10000km on yours?

I believe @who_the has about 10,000-miles on his MSX batteries (he transferred them from his MSuper V3s+).

[Unventor]

1 minute ago, Mike Sacristan said:

And if we have to change a battery pack sooner? After 300 charges?
And if every charge was only 50km but still 100% of the battery discharged.
That would be 15000km.

Which brings us to the next question.
What is the maximum mileage anyone has every gotten on one of their wheels?

Do you think you will do more than 10000km on yours?

My estimate is to reach 2500km within my first year. Second year... Who knows? 

I think it depends which I prefer most my KS18L or my upcoming KS16X. 

I thought to have a wheel dedicated mostly for winter (KS18L since it already got a taste of salts😕) and the other for summer (KS16X). 

When I get a 3rd wheel we will see what argument I have to use to justify that purchase... 

@Marty Backe any help and input here? 

[meepmeepmayer]

26 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Also after having spent half the day wanking around here on the forum we have come to the conclusion that the expected range difference between a MSX and 18XL would be 10-15%

Yep, that's a more realistic conclusion. I can support that

By the way, Gotways start battery beeping at "15%" which is 3.42V per cell. Make of this information what you will. But that's where the annoying beeps start.

@stephen Good test, thanks!

12 minutes ago, Unventor said:

KS18L starts throttling down at 50% battery. On KS18XL starts throttling around 30%.

According to this, it's 30% for the L and 25% for the XL. The voltage fluctuates a lot during riding so it might appear "earlier" in real life.

You're right about the rest, but apparently batteries are much harder to actually ruin than people say. So just ride and enjoy

[Mike Sacristan]

2 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I believe @who_the has about 10,000-miles on his MSX batteries (he transferred them from his MSuper V3s+).

That I can understand. And that is a totally legit strategy.
The way I see it our batteries will easily outlive our wheels.

I don't know how I would feel about my MSX after 15000 km.

6 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Wait, surely the MSX can easily go faster than 45km/h?, right?

And didn't you just write somewhere that you briefly were riding at 31-mph?

Sorry I meant at the battery percentage that was mentioned. Stephen asked what the expected speed at 15% battery is supposed to be.
Haha yes... I was briefly riding at 31mph for like one second. The greatest second of my liiiiiiife! Haha jk... it wasn't that great. I prefer 40ish. But I am just going faster and faster these days.

[Marty Backe]

10 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

That I can understand. And that is a totally legit strategy.
The way I see it our batteries will easily outlive our wheels.

I don't know how I would feel about my MSX after 15000 km.

Sorry I meant at the battery percentage that was mentioned. Stephen asked what the expected speed at 15% battery is supposed to be.
Haha yes... I was briefly riding at 31mph for like one second. The greatest second of my liiiiiiife! Haha jk... it wasn't that great. I prefer 40ish. But I am just going faster and faster these days.

[Mike Sacristan]

4 minutes ago, Unventor said:

My estimate is to reach 2500km within my first year. Second year... Who knows? 

I think it depends which I prefer most my KS18L or my upcoming KS16X. 

I thought to have a wheel dedicated mostly for winter (KS18L since it already got a taste of salts😕) and the other for summer (KS16X). 

When I get a 3rd wheel we will see what argument I have to use to justify that purchase... 

@Marty Backe any help and input here? 

I have had my wheel since January 10. On May 10 I hit 2000km. Yesterday exactly one month later I hit 3000km.
I ran over a twig yesterday and the MSX swallowed it and chewed it up and spat it out. I didn't know it was a wood chipper. A small piece of plastic was sticking out of the rear. I popped it back. Good as new. 

Every day that I ride I accidentally ride around 30-60km.
First I meet a friend for skill practice, then I cruise, then I cruise with my wife, then I cruise with a friend. Then I cruise to an outdoor gym. Then maybe cruise to an outdoor restaurant. Some days I do no cruising and some days I do more. Some days I ride my electric longboard or onewheel.

Uh oh we're out of milk! Cruuuuuuise. A soda would be nice. Cruuuuuuuuise.

As long as I get a decent cost per km I am totally fine.

[stephen]

29 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Wait, surely the MSX can easily go faster than 45km/h?, right?

And didn't you just write somewhere that you briefly were riding at 31-mph

Yeah msx can do 37mph

[stephen]

22 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

By the way, Gotways start battery beeping at "15%" which is 3.42V per cell.

Yeah that's 15% when not riding otherwise it beeps when underload at 15% depending how much you push it

[Mike Sacristan]

14 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Yep, that's a more realistic conclusion. I can support that

By the way, Gotways start battery beeping at "15%" which is 3.42V per cell. Make of this information what you will. But that's where the annoying beeps start.

@stephen Good test, thanks!

According to this, it's 30% for the L and 25% for the XL. The voltage fluctuates a lot during riding so it might appear "earlier" in real life.

You're right about the rest, but apparently batteries are much harder to actually ruin than people say. So just ride and enjoy

Excellent! Then this data and analysis will make it easier for us to make good decisions when purchasing our wheels. As well as recommending wheels for others. 

I am aware of the 15% beeping as I did most of my calculations based on the excellent speed reduction over battery voltage graph that you made as well as other information in the Speed Reduction thread. I am still a bit unsure of the variables regarding MSX speed limit below 15% though and whether a compulsory tiltback is used despite disabling it or setting it at a value such as 48km/h.

I also remember reading that throttling in the 18L occurred at 50% but maybe I am mixing it up with another KS wheel.

[eddiemoy]

27 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Yep, that's a more realistic conclusion. I can support that

By the way, Gotways start battery beeping at "15%" which is 3.42V per cell. Make of this information what you will. But that's where the annoying beeps start.

@stephen Good test, thanks!

According to this, it's 30% for the L and 25% for the XL. The voltage fluctuates a lot during riding so it might appear "earlier" in real life.

You're right about the rest, but apparently batteries are much harder to actually ruin than people say. So just ride and enjoy

The 18L starts throttling the power at south of 50%.  Thought the top speed is still not reduced, it feels different for sure.  As for the XL, KS feel it is safer to push the throttling off until much lower with the 6 parallel packs, I would agree.

 

[stephen]

Just one more thing 😊 

Regarding the 80% power beeps (5 of them continuous) is that all the way through the battery so when i was at 15% if I'd of pushed it would i have for 5 beeps due to 80% power due to the limited speed?   

Or is that just top end speed?

I think I've just confused myself 😂

Edited June 11, 2019 by stephen

[stephen]

Oooh another last question please 

So if gotway has a safer cell management 3.3v would i be safe to go to 20+mph down to 0% battery...... Not that i would now i know what my wheel can do 😊

Edited June 11, 2019 by stephen

[meepmeepmayer]

9 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

I am still a bit unsure of the variables regarding MSX speed limit below 15% though and whether a compulsory tiltback is used despite disabling it or setting it at a value such as 48km/h.

There's no speed limit (ignoring the 3rd alarm which is much higher in comparison). Just beeps, more beeps, and even more beeps at 15%, 10%, 5% (voltages and percentages get really mushy there so it's just beeps and more beeps below 15%). If you ignore the battery beeps, you get a "get off" tiltback at 0% (which has nothing to do with the speed tiltback that can be disabled). It's mild, but maybe when going fast, it's not so mild. I have no intention to find out

3 minutes ago, stephen said:

Regarding the 80% power beeps (5 of them continuous) is that all the way through the battery so when i was at 15% if I'd of pushed it would i have for 5 beeps due to 80% power due to the limited speed? 

The 3rd alarm ("80% alarm") linearly reduces the speed at which the 5 beeps appear while going from 100% to 10%. You'll get battery beeps before you ever hit the 3rd alarm at low battery, because it is crazy high even then, but I guess in theory it's the same speed limit below 10% as it is at 10%.

I'm sure you'll get 0% battery tiltback before you hit the 3rd alarm at low battery. E.g. the 84V MSX has the 3rd alarm at 45kph at 10%. Speed beeps have slowed you to walking speed long before.

If it beeps, slow down. Doesn't matter what beep it is in the end

14 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

The 18L starts throttling the power at south of 50%.  Thought the top speed is still not reduced, it feels different for sure.  As for the XL, KS feel it is safer to push the throttling off until much lower with the 6 parallel packs, I would agree.

How does it work? The wheel gets softer with lower battery? Didn't know that.

[meepmeepmayer]

3 minutes ago, stephen said:

So if gotway has a safer cell management 3.3v would i be safe to go to 20+mph down to 0% battery...... Not that i would now i know what my wheel can do 😊

Only one way to find out

I'd be less worried about an overlean, as the 18XL still goes full speed at 3.3V. But the 0% battery tiltback might throw you off.

[Mike Sacristan]

2 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

If it beeps, slow down. Doesn't matter what beep it is in the end

The answer to the universe. Excellent advice.

Just now, meepmeepmayer said:

Only one way to find out

I'd be less worried about an overlean, as the 18XL still goes full speed at 3.3V. But the 0% battery tiltback might throw you off.

Good reminder. As voltage drops while riding and recovers while resting it can hit 0 multiple times and recover. Which brings us back to the beeping. 

[Marty Backe]

45 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

I have had my wheel since January 10. On May 10 I hit 2000km. Yesterday exactly one month later I hit 3000km.
I ran over a twig yesterday and the MSX swallowed it and chewed it up and spat it out. I didn't know it was a wood chipper. A small piece of plastic was sticking out of the rear. I popped it back. Good as new. 

Every day that I ride I accidentally ride around 30-60km.
First I meet a friend for skill practice, then I cruise, then I cruise with my wife, then I cruise with a friend. Then I cruise to an outdoor gym. Then maybe cruise to an outdoor restaurant. Some days I do no cruising and some days I do more. Some days I ride my electric longboard or onewheel.

Uh oh we're out of milk! Cruuuuuuise. A soda would be nice. Cruuuuuuuuise.

As long as I get a decent cost per km I am totally fine.

We are all afflicted with the same disease. Any opportunity to go on an errand, we take it. Even if sometimes it would be faster with the car 

[eddiemoy]

35 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

How does it work? The wheel gets softer with lower battery? Didn't know that.

You just feel less power from the wheel.  It is noticeable.  Meaning takes longer to get up to speed.  If you are not aware, could possibly do an over lean.

Yes, KS is not perfect either.  

[stephen]

29 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

There's no speed limit (ignoring the 3rd alarm which is much higher in comparison). Just beeps, more beeps, and even more beeps at 15%, 10%, 5% (voltages and percentages get really mushy there so it's just beeps and more beeps below 15%). If you ignore the battery beeps, you get a "get off" tiltback at 0% (which has nothing to do with the speed tiltback that can be disabled). It's mild, but maybe when going fast, it's not so mild. I have no intention to find out

 

29 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

The 3rd alarm ("80% alarm") linearly reduces the speed at which the 5 beeps appear while going from 100% to 10%. You'll get battery beeps before you ever hit the 3rd alarm at low battery, because it is crazy high even then, but I guess in theory it's the same speed limit below 10% as it is at 10%.

I'm sure you'll get 0% battery tiltback before you hit the 3rd alarm at low battery. E.g. the 84V MSX has the 3rd alarm at 45kph at 10%. Speed beeps have slowed you to walking speed long before.

 

 The beeps scare me when I'm riding

Thx for the info guys at least i now know i can go upto 28mph when it first starts beeping but obviously I'll probably do 20mph to be safe but at least I've got a guide line now .. Cheers guys

 

Love this forum😊😊

[mkygod]

Do you guys think there will be a lighter version of the 16x with the same motor? I would love something like a Tesla in terms of power to weight ratio w/ a 40-50 mile range. 

Edited June 11, 2019 by mkygod