First Impressions & Photos of the KS18XL

[Mono]

2 hours ago, Lutalo said:

My mild concern is location of the suspension on the pedals instead of the wheel system.

Other than the knowledge that most suspensions on moving vehicles today are systems that control wheel motion

The rather simple distinction to be made is unsprung (moving) mass versus sprung mass. These are the two masses which are separated but flexibly connected by the suspension. The less unsprung mass we have the better, which suggests to keep the wheel shell, batteries, control board etc as part of the sprung mass. In the shown vid the whole wheel minus the pedals are part of the unsprung mass, which is the simplest but least preferable way. (In comparison, the tire makes almost everything sprung mass).

[Jens Ronnedal]

The first reaction to so called clipless pedals is "what happens when you fall"?

Well, it's like the safety you get when you attach your alpine skiing boots to your skis. As long as the force comes from a correct angle you remain locked on to your skis. But if the force comes from an incorrect angle you're released. When you fall off a bike with clipless pedals or fall off your skis it usually detach you. At least if you do so in higher than walking speed. Most accidents with clipless pedals happens at slower than walking speed since riders forget about being attached and rather than twisting your shoe out your trying to lift it off the pedal. In which way there's no chance off detaching.

But in cycling it's more about the power in your pedaling that's the reason you want to be attached. In skiing it's more the same as in EUC'riding, but not quite. But if EUC pedal manufacturers are gonna steel ideas from another market I still think that the technology from bike pedals are more similar to what's needed. But I think we're gonna see someone make their own shoe to pedal attachment before we see any big manufacturers doing it. But when we do see it, we're gonna see some crazy off-road madness. =)

[Mono]

I don't think it is likely we will ever see pedal clips for EUCs to be in regular use. There are simpler ways to prevent the wheel escaping under the feet if necessary. In particular bulges on the shell which can prevent vertical and horizontal movements if the rider "grabs" them, but leave the option to also freely escape.

[Jens Ronnedal]

If we get a professional EUC-racing league driving development instead of common riders I'm sure everything will change. "If", big "if".

 

Another thing I'm waiting for is the first big hollywood EUC-product placement.

[Lutalo]

Racing certainly drives development in the automobile and motorcycle industries. It would certainly do the same for EUCs if the sponsorship existed. ?

[LanghamP]

On 11/5/2018 at 8:35 AM, Seba said:

Unfortunately, even gimbal won't help. This is because of EUC principle, I've made simple graphics to show this effect. In short - EUC only follow local gravity that is sensed by its heart, inertial measurement unit (combination of gyroscopes and accelerometers). It certainly doesn't follow and doesn't even know terrain slope.

What would happen if you rode an EUC around a bowl? Like inside a Wall of Death?

I have no idea what would happen. Do gyros know where the center of Earth is upon start up, and keep that position? Or perhaps they can be fooled by going around and around.

[Unventor]

6 hours ago, LanghamP said:

What would happen if you rode an EUC around a bowl? Like inside a Wall of Death?

I have no idea what would happen. Do gyros know where the center of Earth is upon start up, and keep that position? Or perhaps they can be fooled by going around and around.

As I understand it most wheels have a cut off of the motor once the side tilt sensor is over a certain degree. 

But I have seen videos made by people riding on skateboard tracks similar to a half dome. Personally I wouldn't do it but then again I am just an EUC rookie, but due the above I rather not risk a cut off while learning sideways on a halfpipe turn.

[Chriull]

2 minutes ago, Unventor said:

As I understand it most wheels have a cut off of the motor once the side tilt sensor is over a certain degree. 

But I have seen videos made by people riding on skateboard tracks similar to a half dome. Personally I wouldn't do it but then again I am just an EUC rookie, but due the above I rather not risk a cut off while learning sideways on a halfpipe turn.

I just remember that  @EUC Extreme had once a special GW Firmware version, which ignored the sideways tilt. Imho all other "normal" wheel have this shut-off behaviour (so the wheel won't go crazy after an accident)?

[Jason McNeil]

The first production XL pedals have been made, KS are shipping out the pedals & the first 20x 18XLs by air-freight early next week. 

 

[Marty Backe]

3 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

The first production XL pedals have been made, KS are shipping out the pedals & the first 20x 18XLs by air-freight early next week. 

 

Beautiful. And nice full coverage with the grip tape.

[Lutalo]

4 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

The first production XL pedals have been made, KS are shipping out the pedals & the first 20x 18XLs by air-freight early next week. 

 

Looking forward to receiving those puppies 

[hal2000]

7 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

The first production XL pedals have been made, KS are shipping out the pedals & the first 20x 18XLs by air-freight early next week. 

 

Look superb.

[hal2000]

@Jason McNeil Since you've managed such a great initiative with pedals maybe you could follow up with an (auto)adjustable headlight project ; )

[radial]

2 hours ago, Lutalo said:

Looking forward to receiving those puppies 

Same here!

[Unventor]

7 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

The first production XL pedals have been made, KS are shipping out the pedals & the first 20x 18XLs by air-freight early next week. 

 

But but they are Black...they should have made 1st batch gold for collectors..then 2nd batch silver and then bronze then go for black that would have been fun pr gimmick.

[Jens Ronnedal]

Black works just fine. But to pay an extra €100 to get the pedals that was suppose to be standard feels more and more irritating the more I think about it.

[FreeRide]

1 hour ago, Jens Ronnedal said:

Black works just fine. But to pay an extra €100 to get the pedals that was suppose to be standard feels more and more irritating the more I think about it.

The pedals 'should have' been standard a long time ago on the 18L if not before; hence why Jason had to step in to make it happen.  Unless I missed something (always possible), they were never "supposed to be" standard unless one was buying from eWheels.    Hopefully once the initial investment and agreed return are covered Kingsong will have the rights to make them standard if they wish.

[Lutalo]

1 hour ago, Jens Ronnedal said:

Black works just fine. But to pay an extra €100 to get the pedals that was suppose to be standard feels more and more irritating the more I think about it.

I am happy that the manufacturer is obviously committed to continuous improvement, and highly responsive to the demands of its dealers and their customers.  

[Lutalo]

3 hours ago, Unventor said:

But but they are Black...they should have made 1st batch gold for collectors..then 2nd batch silver and then bronze then go for black that would have been fun pr gimmick.

There's always this option 👍

[Daniel Clopton]

15 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

The first production XL pedals have been made, KS are shipping out the pedals & the first 20x 18XLs by air-freight early next week. 

 

Full grip tape right to the edge. I love it. 

[Jens Ronnedal]

7 hours ago, FreeRide said:

The pedals 'should have' been standard a long time ago on the 18L if not before; hence why Jason had to step in to make it happen.  Unless I missed something (always possible), they were never "supposed to be" standard unless one was buying from eWheels.    Hopefully once the initial investment and agreed return are covered Kingsong will have the rights to make them standard if they wish.

Big thanks to Jason then, for making the bigger pedals happen. And my disappointment goes out to those who import to the European market for not taking advantage of the oppertunity when the work has already been done.

[Unventor]

10 hours ago, Lutalo said:

There's always this option 👍

You are a star 😁😎

[Jason McNeil]

8 hours ago, Jens Ronnedal said:

Big thanks to Jason then, for making the bigger pedals happen. And my disappointment goes out to those who import to the European market for not taking advantage of the oppertunity when the work has already been done.

The development of these is a long complex history; I had been asking KS for years to make some larger pedals better suited to meet the needs of most Western Riders, basing the arguments on Customer feedback, my own personal experience with the 18L, excitement surrounding the V10F release on this feature, & finally having that air-borne wipe-out, where on reflection thought some decent sized pedals would have allowed me to recover. 

With the introduction of the 18XL, thought it would be the ideal timing to give it that extra special addition. However, we faced some pretty strong opposition from the KS owner, who was adamant that the 25cm spec wasn't necessary, that it would ruin the aesthetic, that I was the lone voice in the wilderness asking for something that wouldn't have any demand, blah, blah... The original agreement was that we would help co-fund the development of the larger type & be reimbursed from the proceeds of sales, but the KS owner refused to produce anything larger than 22cm. My opinion was that this half-hearted attempt would be pretty pointless & that if there were to be investment in a new type, then we might as well do it properly, producing a design of material increase in dimensions. Thanks to Tina's persistent intercessions, reached a deal where we would pay for the entire development & that other sales would help recoup the initial investment. 

 I don't know how KS marketed this upgrade to other regions/distributors, but the struck price on the 25cm pedals is not unreasonable, the same as what GW charge for their MSuper pedals. Everyone should have access to these if the request is made to their local distributor.  

 

[Lutalo]

4 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

the KS owner, who was adamant that the 25cm spec wasn't necessary, that it would ruin the aesthetic, that I was the lone voice in the wilderness asking for something that wouldn't have any demand, blah, blah.

This is a classic case of a business owner who can't see the forest because the trees block his view .

The wilderness didn't have access; You did. You were the lone voice of the wilderness; not in the wilderness. Thanks for the activism Jason. It will pay off.👍

[Adel]

1 hour ago, Jason McNeil said:

The development of these is a long complex history; I had been asking KS for years to make some larger pedals better suited to meet the needs of most Western Riders, basing the arguments on Customer feedback, my own personal experience with the 18L, excitement surrounding the V10F release on this feature, & finally having that air-borne wipe-out, where on reflection thought some decent sized pedals would have allowed me to recover. 

With the introduction of the 18XL, thought it would be the ideal timing to give it that extra special addition. However, we faced some pretty strong opposition from the KS owner, who was adamant that the 25cm spec wasn't necessary, that it would ruin the aesthetic, that I was the lone voice in the wilderness asking for something that wouldn't have any demand, blah, blah... The original agreement was that we would help co-fund the development of the larger type & be reimbursed from the proceeds of sales, but the KS owner refused to produce anything larger than 22cm. My opinion was that this half-hearted attempt would be pretty pointless & that if there were to be investment in a new type, then we might as well do it properly, producing a design of material increase in dimensions. Thanks to Tina's persistent intercessions, reached a deal where we would pay for the entire development & that other sales would help recoup the initial investment. 

 I don't know how KS marketed this upgrade to other regions/distributors, but the struck price on the 25cm pedals is not unreasonable, the same as what GW charge for their MSuper pedals. Everyone should have access to these if the request is made to their local distributor.  

 

Thanks Jason for your initiative. Maybe next thing you can push EUC manufacturers is for much stronger headlights and tail lights.