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First Impressions & Photos of the KS18XL


Jason McNeil

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On 11/22/2018 at 12:45 AM, FreeRide said:

We should not be too hard on KingSong, (...)

 

I am not trying to be hard or "too hard" on anybody. I believe that all of us here, apart from sharing information with each other, also provide invaluable feedback to manufacturers (doesn't matter whether positive or negative).

I also do not feel the need to start each post with "something positive" for the sake of being nice. I like my wheel, I share my reservations because I want the next release to be better.

 

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Our CG animator just completed this disassembly clip for the 18XL. Intention is to serve a couple different purposes, showing how it's put together, for ordering parts, also I think it looks rather cool :). The number next to the part descriptions will be the SKU/part number codes. 

 

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51 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

Our CG animator just completed this disassembly clip for the 18XL. Intention is to serve a couple different purposes, showing how it's put together, for ordering parts, also I think it looks rather cool :). The number next to the part descriptions will be the SKU/part number codes. 

 

Excellent! You have a very skilled employee!

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10 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

Our CG animator just completed this disassembly clip for the 18XL. Intention is to serve a couple different purposes, showing how it's put together, for ordering parts, also I think it looks rather cool :). The number next to the part descriptions will be the SKU/part number codes. 

 

Intense 

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9 hours ago, Lutalo said:

I currently have my lift sensor off; old love to start using it 😉👍

It is not the Lift sensor…...it is a General "static Electricity" Problem.

I am trying to find out where the tape must be added.

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2 hours ago, US69 said:

It is not the Lift sensor…...it is a General "static Electricity" Problem.

I am trying to find out where the tape must be added.

OK, cool. I know we will know when you know. Thanks. 

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14 minutes ago, Lutalo said:

Thanks bruh. Is that what they are doing in this video? I was wondering when I watched it last night. 

yes mate!

 

Not sure what the clear film is. 

 

However, those strips I’m sure are the anti static tape 

 

 

C5C0DABA-5855-4535-822D-C812857139DA.jpeg

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3 hours ago, Siggy said:

yes mate!

 

Not sure what the clear film is. 

 

However, those strips I’m sure are the anti static tape 

 

 

C5C0DABA-5855-4535-822D-C812857139DA.jpeg

Right. I saw polyimide anti-static on Amazon that looks as if it might be the same stuff they were using in the video. Not sure either what is the plastic film they are using. Perhaps something to enhance the effect of the anti-static properties of the tape.

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43 minutes ago, Siggy said:

Oh really,

how so?

By just spraying the inner side of the shell :) This creates uniform, electrically conductive layer preventing from static electricity buildup. I've used this spray to screen many plastic enclosures of various electronic devices and it works perfectly.

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4 hours ago, Seba said:

By just spraying the inner side of the shell :) This creates uniform, electrically conductive layer preventing from static electricity buildup. I've used this spray to screen many plastic enclosures of various electronic devices and it works perfectly.

Will it last as long as the tape,  or does it need to be periodically resprayed?

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Can someone knowledgable explain a bit about the EM interference on wheels and electronics in general?

It seems clear that the microelectronics on the board are not susceptible, otherwise we would have random unexplained faceplants everywhere.

But maybe a thin wire(?) in the lift sensor (or somewhere else?) will act like an antenna, have some induced current, and cause something unwanted? How does this work? How can the lift sensor thing lead to the wheel overheating, or which other electronic part would be affected? By what kind of signals? Cell phone? Specific signals/frequencies like Bluetooth (I guess if the length of the wire matches some wavelength)?

Glad they found it out, it may be a hard thing to find, but it still seems sketchy this happened...

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1 minute ago, Lutalo said:

Will it last as long as the tape,  or does it need to be periodically resprayed?

It's permanent and needs only one application. You can also use EMI 35 spray from the same manufacturer - Kontakt Chemie. It's based on copper particles, so it's even more effective than graphite, but also slightly more expensive:

http://www.kontaktchemie.com/KOC/KOCproductdetail.csp?product=EMI 35

GRAPHIT 33 is good for electrostatic shielding only, but EMI 35 will provide both electrostatic and radio interference shielding. However I have to say honestly that I only have experience with GRAPHIT 33.

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45 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

But maybe a thin wire(?) in the lift sensor (or somewhere else?) will act like an antenna, have some induced current, and cause something unwanted? How does this work? How can the lift sensor thing lead to the wheel overheating, or which other electronic part would be affected? By what kind of signals? Cell phone? Specific signals/frequencies like Bluetooth (I guess if the length of the wire matches some wavelength)?

Glad they found it out, it may be a hard thing to find, but it still seems sketchy this happened...

To put it in some context: the motor freezing bug occurred on about 2% of the 18Ls, & only while using the trolley from a static position. The firmware update that was rolled out two months ago, detects if the controller enters this lockup state & performs a reset—only if the motor is static, which has never been reported while riding. 

I don't fully understand how static discharge comes into play here, & if it does, then isolation (covering in a resin) of the specific vulnerable circuit would seem to be a more logical way of going about it. I'm going to discuss with Tina on Monday... 

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8 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Can someone knowledgable explain a bit about the EM interference on wheels and electronics in general?

It seems clear that the microelectronics on the board are not susceptible, otherwise we would have random unexplained faceplants everywhere.

But maybe a thin wire(?) in the lift sensor (or somewhere else?) will act like an antenna, have some induced current, and cause something unwanted? How does this work? How can the lift sensor thing lead to the wheel overheating, or which other electronic part would be affected? By what kind of signals? Cell phone? Specific signals/frequencies like Bluetooth (I guess if the length of the wire matches some wavelength)?

Glad they found it out, it may be a hard thing to find, but it still seems sketchy this happened...

To be fair - I don't believe that ESD/EMI interferences caused wheel lockups. Microcontroller oscillator failure fits best for the symptoms of some early wheels, because effects of lockup clearly showed that MCU and its peripherials (especially PWM generator) lost clock. However it is possible that during further tests they found that KS-18L doesn't conform to EN 61000 or something similar. So wheel lockups and additional shielding may be unrelated. I would normally expect to shield the control board first, not the sides of the wheel still leaving control board exposed. So for me it's at least strange.

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1 hour ago, Seba said:

GRAPHIT 33 is good for electrostatic shielding only, but EMI 35 will provide both electrostatic and radio interference shielding. However I have to say honestly that I only have experience with GRAPHIT 33.

Cool. Thanks for the info. I will look into EMI 35.

I am far from the engineer type, but what @Jason McNeil said about targeting only the specific circuit with anti-static protection once identified makes a lot of sense to me. So, your point about some other regulation compelling compliance might be what we are seeing in the video shared by @Siggy with the workers who appear to be applying tape and plastic shielding to the outer shell. 

@Jason McNeil and @US69 are on it so we will know for certain soon enough. I do appreciate your apparent expertise though. You offered what I think are some very insightful points. 

Thanks again for the info on the EMI 35. I may buy it and hold it until I know for sure exactly where to point the sprayer.

 

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On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 7:49 PM, Lutalo said:

Cool. Thanks for the info. I will look into EMI 35.

I am far from the engineer type, but what @Jason McNeil said about targeting only the specific circuit with anti-static protection once identified makes a lot of sense to me. So, your point about some other regulation compelling compliance might be what we are seeing in the video shared by @Siggy with the workers who appear to be applying tape and plastic shielding to the outer shell. 

@Jason McNeil and @US69 are on it so we will know for certain soon enough. I do appreciate your apparent expertise though. You offered what I think are some very insightful points. 

Thanks again for the info on the EMI 35. I may buy it and hold it until I know for sure exactly where to point the sprayer.

 

As far as i know NOW....Kingsong is producing a Video of how to use and install the produced "giant" sticker.

I doubt that ALL 18L will have to receive the update with the sticker, as @Jason McNeil said...only a very, very few early 18L have had this "Freeze issue".

To my Knowledge mostly in Russia it happens, for example in Germany we did not have even one failure at all. I am also now at 400km with my 18L, works like a charm.

 

Please...give us some more time to update on the Situation. 

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34 minutes ago, US69 said:

To my Knowledge mostly in Russia it happens, for example in Germany we did not have even one failure at all. I am now on 400km with my 18L, works like a charm.

My commute to work, take out lunch and then supermarket shopping on my way home today took me to 900km in the Kingsong app for Android. They might be optimistic but I am still amazed by how much my EUCs have helped me with my back and knee pains. And having fun too while saving on parking and fuel for my car.

Big fat smile on my face 😁.

So @Hunka Hunka Burning Love you are not feeling you miss you EUC rides yet?

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