MSuper X vs. KS18L: Has Gotway become 'safe enough'?

[EUCGUY]

5 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Well, my complaint from the start about the X was that they should just have built a new shell design for it. Everything is new but the core shell. And now they run into the space problem with 100V vs 84V batteries. Why not a design that can be fully utilized by both (or just go for 100V right away)? Maybe that will be a next step.

And pretty sure the 100V rides snappier than the 84V, so the 84V is worse, isn't it?

To be fair, the msuper shell is smashing! 

[Marty Backe]

13 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Well, my complaint from the start about the X was that they should just have built a new shell design for it. Everything is new but the core shell. And now they run into the space problem with 100V vs 84V batteries. Why not a design that can be fully utilized by both (or just go for 100V right away)? Maybe that will be a next step.

And pretty sure the 100V rides snappier than the 84V, so the 84V is worse, isn't it?

It is frustrating. A whole bunch of us order MSuper X's from @Jason McNeil and before they even ship we find out that Gotway is shipping 100-volt versions, and nobody (including Jason?) knew that a 100-volt version was coming   

Since I already have a 1600wh version of the MSuper (for my very long rides) I probably would have opted for the 100-volt version if I had known.

This is the problem with Gotway. They make too many new wheels and don't tell anybody that they are making them. So it's always a gamble when you buy their latest wheel. Yet if I had waited a few more months and bought the 100-volt version, a month later they probably would have announced the MSuper Y. It's a losing battle 

[stephen]

so where are the 100v advertised.

where did you purchase it from @EUC GUY

[Nick McCutcheon]

11 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

It is frustrating. A whole bunch of us order MSuper X's from @Jason McNeil and before they even ship we find out that Gotway is shipping 100-volt versions, and nobody (including Jason?) knew that a 100-volt version was coming   

Since I already have a 1600wh version of the MSuper (for my very long rides) I probably would have opted for the 100-volt version if I had known.

This is the problem with Gotway. They make too many new wheels and don't tell anybody that they are making them. So it's always a gamble when you buy their latest wheel. Yet if I had waited a few more months and bought the 100-volt version, a month later they probably would have announced the MSuper Y. It's a losing battle 

What would the main benefits be of a 100V vs 84V model with the same battery size? Would it just be increased acceleration/aggressiveness? I can’t imagine needing to go further than 55 miles or faster than 30mph, so I don’t know how much a voltage upgrade would benefit me (I don’t need crazy acceleration as long as I get up to speed/the range I need), but what are the main reasons for one? I’m curious to know since I’m not too knowledgeable on how much voltage matters.

[Roger Reece]

I wasn't considering an ACM2 for long trips, because it's smaller than my MSuper V3, and I like the stability of the bigger wheel.  Marty, I was thinking the same thing - the MSuper X would be a great upgrade, but if I'm going to buy a new wheel, the Monster would be a totally new experience.  I'm looking for max distance and right now I'm getting about 30 miles on my MSuper V3.  I like to explore, which means on and off pavement, and sometime some challenging dirt paths.  So how is the Monster at negotiating rocks, roots, and other obstacles including steep dirt hills? I'm always nervous about getting stuck with a low battery out in the boonies so should I go for the Monster 84v with the 2400Wh battery or the 100v with the 1845Wh battery?  I would think the 2400Wh battery would be the way to go, but what am I losing by not going with the 100v Monster?

[Roger Reece]

5 minutes ago, Roger Reece said:

I wasn't considering an ACM2 for long trips, because it's smaller than my MSuper V3, and I like the stability of the bigger wheel.  Marty, I was thinking the same thing - the MSuper X would be a great upgrade, but if I'm going to buy a new wheel, the Monster would be a totally new experience.  I'm looking for max distance and right now I'm getting about 30 miles on my MSuper V3.  I like to explore, which means on and off pavement, and sometime some challenging dirt paths.  So how is the Monster at negotiating rocks, roots, and other obstacles including steep dirt hills? I'm always nervous about getting stuck with a low battery out in the boonies so should I go for the Monster 84v with the 2400Wh battery or the 100v with the 1845Wh battery?  I would think the 2400Wh battery would be the way to go, but what am I losing by not going with the 100v Monster?

It sounds like I should wait for a 100v MSuper v3 with a 1600Wh battery.

[Marty Backe]

27 minutes ago, Roger Reece said:

I wasn't considering an ACM2 for long trips, because it's smaller than my MSuper V3, and I like the stability of the bigger wheel.  Marty, I was thinking the same thing - the MSuper X would be a great upgrade, but if I'm going to buy a new wheel, the Monster would be a totally new experience.  I'm looking for max distance and right now I'm getting about 30 miles on my MSuper V3.  I like to explore, which means on and off pavement, and sometime some challenging dirt paths.  So how is the Monster at negotiating rocks, roots, and other obstacles including steep dirt hills? I'm always nervous about getting stuck with a low battery out in the boonies so should I go for the Monster 84v with the 2400Wh battery or the 100v with the 1845Wh battery?  I would think the 2400Wh battery would be the way to go, but what am I losing by not going with the 100v Monster?

The difference between the 100-volt Monster and 84-volt Monster is not night and day. A bit more low end power but I think primarily the gains are in the top-end speed.

Either version of the Monster is not a fun wheel to ride up steep hills. However, I had seen first hand that the Monster flies up steep hills when seated. I still intend on modifying my Monster by adding supports in front of my shins so that I can lean into the hills much easier for climbing. It's all about leverage. If you can apply enough forward force on the shell the Monster has amazing power. This is accomplished either by sitting or squeezing the side pads to force the shell forward.

As far as general rocky and rut infested trails go, the Monster laughs at it all. If you want to explore on and off road and never worry about the battery, go for the 2400wh version. I can get a reliable 65-miles from mine. When riding slow (~15-mph) I've achieved 95-miles 

[Lutalo]

1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

Older riders, however, are more vulnerable to falls.

This is an interesting point of view. Please, clarify what you mean by "more vulnerable."

Do you mean to say that older riders are more likely to fall while riding; or is it possible you mean to say that older people are more likely to endure longer recovery periods after sustaining an injury resulting from a fall?  

If you mean the latter I can readily agree as there is plenty of data to show that healing rates/capabilities change with age.

If you mean the former I would be interested to see how the data was collected for this conclusion.

Given that due significantly to the relatively high cost entry barrier, most wheel buyers are probably squarely established adults in the first place.

It is a bit challenging for me to imagine that there are too many Moms & Dads out there willing to spend a grand+ to increase the chances that they have enabled their adrenaline junkie teens to increase their chances of killing themselves (I don't believe the safety concerns of most non-riders are as yet reasonably diminished. I fully expect that non-rider concerns will change with, time, proliferation/availability, rider advocacy).

In my experience (admittedly a perception shaped mostly by subjective observations; not market data or analysis), a large number of the children who ride EUCs tend to have close affiliations with adults who also ride them; this is certainly true in my case and other adult riders with whom I am acquainted.

Of course, I fully expect the current rider profile phenomenon to change as the wheels proliferate in popularity and availability, parental safety concerns have been reasonably allayed, and entry costs have decreased to within "christmas gift for my kid territory"; but for now most of the non-adult riders that I come across (and I have come across relatively few to include my own children) are introduced to EUCs via close affiliation with an adult that rides them.

Without having established what "older" means within a generally adult EUC niche, it seems that a higher number of "older" riders falling (assuming this is what you actually meant by "more vulnerable") could simply be the result of a high proportion of older buyers, thus learners, thus riders, thus fallers, and fallers reporting their falls, as opposed to being comparatively " more vulnerable to falls" than presumably a younger demographic.

Without data of my own regarding the niche, I cannot refute the " more vulnerable" claim outright. However, until I see reasonable support for the claim I will have place it in the "needs more data category."??.

[Keith]

8 minutes ago, Lutalo said:

Please, clarify what you mean by "more vulnerable."

I probably shouldn’t appear to be speaking on @LanghamP‘s behalf, but I’m pretty sure he means more prone to injury, not more likely to be doddering old sods who cannot keep their balance on two legs - let alone one wheel ?.

And, at 62 I would absolutely agree, not only did my one and only bad faceplant leave me with seriously weakened wrists for something like a horrifying 6 months but an unrelated injury with a 2KW motored electric helicopter (where I discovered that tablets that say: “Do not operate machinery whilst taking these” actually DO mean don’t operate machinery whilst taking them!) taught me an even more worrying lesson. The accident didn't  do me that much harm but put me into shock so badly that I would have sat their and bleed to death whilst watching it had my wife and daughter (British Airways cabin crew so well trained in first aid) not been on hand to look after me. I.e. I was totally incapable of phoning for an ambulance or even speaking. The possibility of having an accident with nobody else around is not a risk I will be taking again anytime soon! I did much worst things to myself on motorbikes in my youth without going into shock.

[eddiemoy]

On 6/30/2018 at 8:27 PM, ndmcc said:

Like many others right now, I'm debating between possibly upgrading to King Song's KS18L or Gotway's MSuper X (I was looking at the Z10 as well, but narrowed it down to just the two after much consideration). I love my KS14D to death, and it has been a blast to learn on it and ride it around town, but its range and top speed are juuuust under what I need. I don't want to have to upgrade for a while due to how expensive (for me) these wheels can be, so I'm going all out if I end up upgrading. My choice has come down to these factors (I felt a table was the best way to show my thoughts):

I'm also a bit worried about Gotway's app and connectivity situation, but I know that with enough persistence and troubleshooting/app switching you can get done what you need to get done on either wheel despite each brand's app quirks. I would spring for the MSX right away, if it wasn't for the safety concerns over Gotway's products. I just recently joined the EUC community, but from what I can gather, Gotway has been improving on safety and shifting away from their history of high failure rates, seeing as to how most of the MSX's improvements over the MS V3S+ have to with durability, like improving the MOSFETs and implementing metal screw holds. However, after seeing the messy inside of an MSX versus the clean inside of an 18L we've come to love and expect from King Song, my doubts returned about Gotway's quality measures. I'm also a bit concerned about how there was a structural difference between the first and second batch of the MSX... What if there's an issue in the second batch that will be fixed in the third batch, that we haven't discovered yet? 

So, I wonder what your guys' opinion is on this matter. Should I go with the MSX, arguably the highest-performing wheel available right now despite Gotway's shaky track record with quality, or deal with the shortcomings of the (still very respectable) KS18L for the sake of historical reliability? Also, this is my first post on this forum, and I know this is a hot topic right now, so please let me know if I would be better suited to post somewhere else or delete the post entirely. Thanks! 

Hmm...  The table is missing something, but you wouldn't know the answer to it though.  What is it like to ride?  When you buy a car, you take it for a test drive.  Depending on how the weight is distributed, you have a different feeling.  Kind of like if you put a 500hp engine into a suv or a porsche.  When you drive them, they feel different.  I feel if the MSX is anything like the old Msuper, the weight is all the way at the top.  For some reason, it feels odd to me, like it was designed wrong.  Like a car with all the mass at the top like an SUV, easy to flip hard to corner, all the wrong dynamics.  If you drive a porsche, it corners differently than the SUV.  For me I prefer the riding dynamics of the 18L.  The batteries are on both sides of the unit, evenly distributed.

Quaility, all you need to do is look at the inside of both units.  The build quality of the Gotway is nothing to be proud of.  Take a look at the tear down photos.  The 18L is a clear winner that the insides were designed properly.  The Msuper looks like it's been thrown together.  They have come a long way and their users have paid the price with their skin and bruises.  Each failure being addressed, but not sure how the reputation is affected.  No one knows yet how all these little steps have made a difference until months down the road.

Not many people need anything over 1000wh.  You can count the number of folks on this forum that do long range riding on your hands.  Most other folk are more down to earth knowing you can charge these things.  You don't buy a electric car with 300 miles of range if you don't need it or if you have the ability to charge it at night.  For the all day rides I've done, we were able to charge them at a restaurant.  I understand some people who ride in the middle of no where and don't stop at a restaurant for lunch may need 1600 wh.  Most people dont.

The speed limit is for your safety.  If your battery cannot reliability put out the power you need I would want the extra safety of limiting my speed.  They don't do this for no reason.  GW on the other hand will just let the user fall, or they think the chances are less than they think.  But we've seen much more cut outs on Gotways.  All the cut out's i've seen are GW, only one is an old KS.

Everyone has a risk tolerance.  For me, I've seen too many failures even in our limited riding group to buy GW in the near future.  They have done this to their reputation, no one else to blame.  The last three crashes from our riding group in NYC, both guys wearing helmets and gear, one was riding a Msuper V3s+, face planted twice, in ER twice.  One more recently last month, ACM faceplanted, had gear on, concussion went to ER.  

Gotway fanboys will come in with their usual hey it is the riders fault, not gotway.

[Electroman]

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

It is frustrating. A whole bunch of us order MSuper X's from @Jason McNeil and before they even ship we find out that Gotway is shipping 100-volt versions, and nobody (including Jason?) knew that a 100-volt version was coming   

Since I already have a 1600wh version of the MSuper (for my very long rides) I probably would have opted for the 100-volt version if I had known.

This is the problem with Gotway. They make too many new wheels and don't tell anybody that they are making them. So it's always a gamble when you buy their latest wheel. Yet if I had waited a few more months and bought the 100-volt version, a month later they probably would have announced the MSuper Y. It's a losing battle 

Can't you see Marty, it IS for you and people like you they doing exactly this kind of squeezing out $ since you will pick up them up anyway, hence you will get 1 for 2! ?

Although on a serious note, I hear you if true this is not good. Is such a 100v also using the GA cell, if it is I have my old 820 ACM here begging to donate some "organs"?

[mrelwood]

41 minutes ago, Keith said:

The possibility of having an accident with nobody else around is not a risk I will be taking again anytime soon!

This is actually something I’ve started to worry about lately. I love riding secluded paths and trails in the woods the most, and often do it very early am when there’s no-one around. If I were to fall in a way that my phone would break and I couldn’t ride, I’d be majorly screwed. Even when it’s not actually that many km away from civilization. Yet, it is a drug-like total freedom that I don’t know how I could give up.

[novazeus]

10 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

This is actually something I’ve started to worry about lately. I love riding secluded paths and trails in the woods the most, and often do it very early am when there’s no-one around. If I were to fall in a way that my phone would break and I couldn’t ride, I’d be majorly screwed. Even when it’s not actually that many km away from civilization. Yet, it is a drug-like total freedom that I don’t know how I could give up.

ha ha, that’s my life everyday 24/7. 

[Marty Backe]

16 minutes ago, Electroman said:

Can't you see Marty, it IS for you and people like you they doing exactly this kind of squeezing out $ since you will pick up them up anyway, hence you will get 1 for 2! ?

Although on a serious note, I hear you if true this is not good. Is such a 100v also using the GA cell, if it is I have my old 820 ACM here begging to donate some "organs"?

I have no knowledge about this 100-volt wheel other then it exists.

[eddiemoy]

@ndmcc, one other thing that might help, I just recalled you are coming from KS. When I started learning, I came from 14” Airwheel X3.  It was a POS.  I quickly went to Ninebot because I didn’t know if I would take to this EUC activity.  After about a month on the Ninebot it wasn’t anything special.  Ninebot riding dynamics want all that great.  The pedals were too low and didn’t ride well.  Kind of like a KIA.  Then I decided to buy a KS16.  What a difference.  Felt like a BMW.  This thing was amazing. I was able to learn much quicker.  Then I got the KS18S, learned to ride seated.  Loved it. 

I like most kept watching videos.  Lots of videos on the MSuper V3s+.  I was sold.  Then that firmware fiasco came about.  I was nervous.  Jason fixed them then I bought one because of all the praise it got from all the youtubers.  When I got it I hated it.  Ride was so weird.  I couldn’t put my finger on it.  Like the wheel was designed wrong.  I was thinking how could anyone like this wheel.  Every time I rode it I hated it.  I was filming a video and it nearly took my leg off when I tried to put it down like all my other wheels.  Not knowing on the GW, it is a big mistake. I think they have since fixed it since I saw in a new MSX video the first thing they did was test that.  LOL.  

Anyway, you won’t know how you will like the wheel until you get it.  But if you are used to KS, you might hate the MSX and the way it rides. It isn’t much different than the Msuper V3s.  But again, you might be one of those that love it like the guy I sold mine to.  He love it.  But he had nothing else to compare his riding experimence to.  So it is kind of like the guy who’s only car is a KIA, he won’t know how shitty it is until he rides a BMW.  

Confusing?  It is. 

[novazeus]

59 minutes ago, Keith said:

2KW motored electric helicopter

was that a rc heli?

[Marty Backe]

23 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Hmm...  The table is missing something, but you wouldn't know the answer to it though.  What is it like to ride?  When you buy a car, you take it for a test drive.  Depending on how the weight is distributed, you have a different feeling.  Kind of like if you put a 500hp engine into a suv or a porsche.  When you drive them, they feel different.  I feel if the MSX is anything like the old Msuper, the weight is all the way at the top.  For some reason, it feels odd to me, like it was designed wrong.  Like a car with all the mass at the top like an SUV, easy to flip hard to corner, all the wrong dynamics.  If you drive a porsche, it corners differently than the SUV.  For me I prefer the riding dynamics of the 18L.  The batteries are on both sides of the unit, evenly distributed.

Quaility, all you need to do is look at the inside of both units.  The build quality of the Gotway is nothing to be proud of.  Take a look at the tear down photos.  The 18L is a clear winner that the insides were designed properly.  The Msuper looks like it's been thrown together.  They have come a long way and their users have paid the price with their skin and bruises.  Each failure being addressed, but not sure how the reputation is affected.  No one knows yet how all these little steps have made a difference until months down the road.

Not many people need anything over 1000wh.  You can count the number of folks on this forum that do long range riding on your hands.  Most other folk are more down to earth knowing you can charge these things.  You don't buy a electric car with 300 miles of range if you don't need it or if you have the ability to charge it at night.  For the all day rides I've done, we were able to charge them at a restaurant.  I understand some people who ride in the middle of no where and don't stop at a restaurant for lunch may need 1600 wh.  Most people dont.

The speed limit is for your safety.  If your battery cannot reliability put out the power you need I would want the extra safety of limiting my speed.  They don't do this for no reason.  GW on the other hand will just let the user fall, or they think the chances are less than they think.  But we've seen much more cut outs on Gotways.  All the cut out's i've seen are GW, only one is an old KS.

Everyone has a risk tolerance.  For me, I've seen too many failures even in our limited riding group to buy GW in the near future.  They have done this to their reputation, no one else to blame.  The last three crashes from our riding group in NYC, both guys wearing helmets and gear, one was riding a Msuper V3s+, face planted twice, in ER twice.  One more recently last month, ACM faceplanted, had gear on, concussion went to ER.  

Gotway fanboys will come in with their usual hey it is the riders fault, not gotway.

I actually ride my wheels and enjoy them. How pretty they are inside has yet to detract from the fun that I have riding them.

[eddiemoy]

1 minute ago, Marty Backe said:

I actually ride my wheels and enjoy them. How pretty they are inside has yet to detract from the fun that I have riding them.

No, but I take it as a sign of quality.  How it was put together is a clear sign of how mature the company is in design and manufacturing.  For a wheel that has little redundancy, I wouldn’t put my health in the hands of a person sloppyly putting together my wheel.  I want someone skilled to put together my wheel and the wires to stay put when I ride. Not vibrate around and have a chance of failure down the road when it has vibrated enough to fail.  

[LanghamP]

The older you are, the more prone you are to injuries when falling (and not just EUC falls; any falls).

Saying that, I'm convinced that if you are older then you should still ride (and fall from) EUCs, at least the slower ones, because there are benefits from "dancing with the devil".

I say this because I saw a youtube videa of a 68 year old guy, who did not even walk or look all that healthy, buy a ninebot E. He documented himself learning it, and by the end of the series he was incomparably more sprightly. He didn't look different but he moved like a far younger man.

Probably one could derive the same benefits from, say, slacklining, or from a mechanical unicycle, perhaps dancing, or various other skills.

As for the KS18L versus MSX debate; whenever I require the range of 1600, I just take my bicycle instead. Healthier and safer anyway.

[WARPed1701D]

49 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

This is actually something I’ve started to worry about lately. I love riding secluded paths and trails in the woods the most, and often do it very early am when there’s no-one around. If I were to fall in a way that my phone would break and I couldn’t ride, I’d be majorly screwed. Even when it’s not actually that many km away from civilization. Yet, it is a drug-like total freedom that I don’t know how I could give up.

https://www.acrartex.com/products/outdoor/#1122

Rugged and will work anywhere with a clear view of the sky. I brought mine for sailing but carry it when walking trails. I've suggested it several times on here for people that ride remote locations.

[Vikas]

4 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

It is frustrating. A whole bunch of us order MSuper X's from @Jason McNeil and before they even ship we find out that Gotway is shipping 100-volt versions, and nobody (including Jason?) knew that a 100-volt version was coming   

Since I already have a 1600wh version of the MSuper (for my very long rides) I probably would have opted for the 100-volt version if I had known.

This is the problem with Gotway. They make too many new wheels and don't tell anybody that they are making them. So it's always a gamble when you buy their latest wheel. Yet if I had waited a few more months and bought the 100-volt version, a month later they probably would have announced the MSuper Y. It's a losing battle 

If it's any consolation to you Marty, that's what happened to me personally with the acm and then version 2 came out. And just to clarify I LOVE gotway. Just had a bad dealing with both machines that's all. My personal favorite obviously was the acm. A true workhorse of a machine without equal and without question. I thought It was a very well designed machine. Very easy on the eyes ? .I will continue to support them. I am not rich sadly; hence I pray I dont end up with a lemon. If I had more money I would personally buy 2 1600wh Acm v2 and 2 msuper x 100v in a heart beat. Gotway indeed is a heavy hitter in the ring.

[novazeus]

53 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

https://www.acrartex.com/products/outdoor/#1122

Rugged and will work anywhere with a clear view of the sky. I brought mine for sailing but carry it when walking trails. I've suggested it several times on here for people that ride remote locations.

yeah, i have one of these in my boat stuff. subscription service required.

https://www.findmespot.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5&products_id=29

[Kens]

4 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Well, my complaint from the start about the X was that they should just have built a new shell design for it. Everything is new but the core shell. And now they run into the space problem with 100V vs 84V batteries. Why not a design that can be fully utilized by both (or just go for 100V right away)? Maybe that will be a next step.

And pretty sure the 100V rides snappier than the 84V, so the 84V is worse, isn't it?

Gotway still experimenting on 100V wheels. They probably want to know how many people eat the pavement before building the proper 100V wheel from the ground up.

If there are not too many pavement eater then they will announce Tesla V2 100V this year ?(please be real.. please be real!)

[Lutalo]

2 hours ago, Keith said:

I probably shouldn’t appear to be speaking on @LanghamP‘s behalf, but I’m pretty sure he means more prone to injury, not more likely to be doddering old sods who cannot keep their balance on two legs - let alone one wheel ?.

And, at 62 I would absolutely agree, not only did my one and only bad faceplant leave me with seriously weakened wrists for something like a horrifying 6 months but an unrelated injury with a 2KW motored electric helicopter (where I discovered that tablets that say: “Do not operate machinery whilst taking these” actually DO mean don’t operate machinery whilst taking them!) taught me an even more worrying lesson. The accident didn't  do me that much harm but put me into shock so badly that I would have sat their and bleed to death whilst watching it had my wife and daughter (British Airways cabin crew so well trained in first aid) not been on hand to look after me. I.e. I was totally incapable of phoning for an ambulance or even speaking. The possibility of having an accident with nobody else around is not a risk I will be taking again anytime soon! I did much worst things to myself on motorbikes in my youth without going into shock.

 

1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

The older you are, the more prone you are to injuries when falling (and not just EUC falls; any falls).

Saying that, I'm convinced that if you are older then you should still ride (and fall from) EUCs, at least the slower ones, because there are benefits from "dancing with the devil".

I say this because I saw a youtube videa of a 68 year old guy, who did not even walk or look all that healthy, buy a ninebot E. He documented himself learning it, and by the end of the series he was incomparably more sprightly. He didn't look different but he moved like a far younger man.

Probably one could derive the same benefits from, say, slacklining, or from a mechanical unicycle, perhaps dancing, or various other skills.

As for the KS18L versus MSX debate; whenever I require the range of 1600, I just take my bicycle instead. Healthier and safer anyway.

Thanks for the clarification. As I said in my post, if by "vulnerable" you mean longer recovery times from falls as opposed to "more susceptible" to falling in the first place then I agree and we are on the same page.

And Keith, I am 51, I have received a similar wrist injury to the one you described sustaining. I can attest to long recovery times. I fell over a year ago on my right wrist and still I have trouble applying pressure. I have trained Capoeira for years, I have sustained several martial arts related injuries over the years; broken fingers, toes, torn hip abductors, strained abductors, mild and severe sprains, I broke my leg in 2012, I recovered just fine from all of those injuries. However this last one I received at age, 50 and learning to ride a wheel has remained with me, and because capoeira training incorporates acrobatic ground and aerial movements, I have to completely adapt training around this injury because it has stayed with me for so long. So yeah. Getting old sucks.

[Nick McCutcheon]

Thanks for the replies and explanations everyone, including @eddiemoy. I’ve decided to try out the MSX because I feel like I’m going to be part of the small group that goes on long explorations. As I mentioned earlier, I’ve had to avoid explorations because of my current range, and while I feel like I would be ok with the 18L’s range, the throttling at lower battery percentages of KS wheels is a big reason as to why I was hesitant to go with it. Jason from ewheels sent over some complementary padding with my 14D shortly after I got it, and I’m hoping I’ll be able to use it to counteract any top heavy feelings I may get from the MSX. I also haven’t tried any wheel above 14” yet, so hopefully since it’s my first 18” experience I won’t have any expectations ahead of time. I’m also planning to put in a bit lower speed alarms/tiltback initially to hopefully prevent bad crashes. If I many ask, how did your friends’ crashes happen? Was it due to high speeds, or were they just out of the blue? I’m also hoping that ewheels would be able to help me out if any problems did arise, as their service is notoriously great (at least it has been for me).