MSuper X vs. KS18L: Has Gotway become 'safe enough'?

[eddiemoy]

2 minutes ago, EUC GUY said:

I pushed it to the max. ofc it cut out, no more to give. not a fault of the wheel. 
 

Yes, I hear that from all of gotway fanboys.    To me it is the fault of the wheel.  Why even allow that to happen?  My guess is not that gotway is giving you the freedom to kill yourself, but they didn’t put in the effort to figure out the limits of the wheel and build firmware around the limits to prevent that from ever happening.  

That is just irresponsible as a manufacturer. Why is there a rev limit on engines?  Why don’t they just let you rev until the engine blows up?  They put rev limits into the engine control unit.  Because they don’t want their customers to die.  No such though in gotways mind.  

[joku]

I'm just going off of what I've seen from 2 dealers that sell gotway's and kingsong. Ecodrift and another in Australia have been very open and clear that gotway is not to be trusted. I think they have a better overall view of gotway issues than most, which is why they bash gotway even though they sell them. I also peeked around the gotway posts and see a lot more issues than in other forums, but that could just be that there are more gotway owners than anything else

[eddiemoy]

15 minutes ago, joku said:

I'm just going off of what I've seen from 2 dealers that sell gotway's and kingsong. Ecodrift and another in Australia have been very open and clear that gotway is not to be trusted. I think they have a better overall view of gotway issues than most, which is why they bash gotway even though they sell them. I also peeked around the gotway posts and see a lot more issues than in other forums, but that could just be that there are more gotway owners than anything else

Gotway doesn’t have the bulk of the market share.  I think it is Ninebot and inmotion.  Think the reason you see more issues because gotway riders tend to be more extreme so they get into trouble more.  Aside from the higher statistical failure rate. 

[yourtoys7]

Glidetoride in Canada, BC. removed/ stopped selling Gotway all together due safety issue. At this point I would choose KingSong (but waiting for more reviews on Z10).

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, eddiemoy said:

Gotway doesn’t have the bulk of the market share.  I think it is Ninebot and inmotion.  Think the reason you see more issues because gotway riders tend to be more extreme so they get into trouble more.  Aside from the higher statistical failure rate. 

Going by Paris last year, it is 70% Gotway, 25% KS, and some others thrown in. I'd guess it's a lot more KS now (16S released  for longer, 18L etc) and some more Inmotions, but I still wouldn't be surprised if Gotway is >50% and the rest are <50% market share atm (wheels in use, maybe not lifetime sales that count old Solowheels and whatnot). At least in "the West" (Europe + NA), Asians seem to like KS more (or they just all bought their KS16 at the same time).

1 hour ago, yourtoys7 said:

Glidetoride in Canada, BC. removed/ stopped selling Gotway all together due safety issue. At this point I would choose KingSong (but waiting for more reviews on Z10).

When? A year ago?

Gotway safety is fine. Gotway quality is... well, it could be better. My opinion on this is on the first page of this thread. There is no indication that GWs are less safe (more hardware-caused accidents) than others. All these complaints are (or maybe were, as it is now) quality issues (DOA wheels, wheels frying as soon as you step on them, other QC failures).

It just seems some people expect the wheels to do their safety precaution work for them, while others accept what is their fault and what is the wheel's.

 

[Lutalo]

12 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Going by Paris last year, it is 70% Gotway, 25% KS, and some others thrown in. I'd guess it's a lot more KS now (16S released  for longer, 18L etc) and some more Inmotions, but I still wouldn't be surprised if Gotway is >50% and the rest are <50% market share atm (wheels in use, maybe not lifetime sales that count old Solowheels and whatnot). At least in "the West" (Europe + NA), Asians seem to like KS more (or they just all bought their KS16 at the same time).

When? A year ago?

Gotway safety is fine. Gotway quality is... well, it could be better. My opinion on this is on the first page of this thread. There is no indication that GWs are less safe (more hardware-caused accidents) than others. All these complaints are (or maybe were, as it is now) quality issues (DOA wheels, wheels frying as soon as you step on them, other QC failures).

It just seems some people expect the wheels to do their safety precaution work for them, while others accept what is their fault and what is the wheel's.

 

Since you provided a working definition I can accept what you mean; from a very technical standpoint. However, what I, and perhaps others, tend to judge as safe is: when we step on a wheel how likely is it to have a QC issue while I am riding that is going to cause a mechanical failure that in turn causes a catastrophic event. If the likelihood is too high based on our subjective assessment of risk vs reward then we might view the item as unsafe in real/non-technical terms.

[Marcglider]

3 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

I’m not a fanboy.  I just know what I like and what fits me.  If gotway turns their reputation around and design something I like, I’ll be the first one to praise them.  I like their Tesla, but I didn’t like the flimsy case.  It’s not bashing when it’s true.  I’m not making shit up to bash them.  I’m just pointing out the good and the bad.  Some people see it as just bashing.  Maybe it is that I don’t see much good that resonates with me on gotway.

So this is kind of what I am talking about... you say you Like the Tesla but the case is Flimsy... OK  If that is your only issue as it pertains to this particular wheel(your words not mine), then let's separate the past safety/quality issues and deal with the CURRENT... 

The Quality of a new Mercedes far exceeds a new Ford, but I am not going to pull articles about the old Ford Pinto's and their exploding gas tanks and use that in a current decision, each "New Vehicle" should stand on its own...

One more observation @eddiemoy and I will bow out of future comments on this thread... I watched your video on V10F and the problems you were having... I found it a bit disturbing from a couple of stand points, mostly that they would release the firmware and new wheel before working out some major issues. If you were to get thrown off which looks like it could have been the case if you pushed harder, and got hurt, and posted negatively, it would have been bad and the wrong thing to do...,  I actually think that the future results from your video will be great, I think Bob's reaction and the fact he said he will have you ck the update before release speaks volume's for them. 

I am a "FANBOY" of riding EUC's, that's it!!  We need to understand people are making decisions in this relatively new, up and coming and evolving "Hobby" on information from this Forum... I think we need to responsibly focus on the current and future items, and use the past issues as a gauge of how well the individual companies and the hobby in general are evolving... 

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, Lutalo said:

Since you provided a working definition I can accept what you mean; from a very technical standpoint. However, what I, and perhaps others, tend to judge as safe is: when we step on a wheel how likely is it to have a QC issue while I am riding that is going to cause a mechanical failure that in turn causes a catastrophic event. If the likelihood is too high based on our subjective assessment of risk vs reward then we might view the item as unsafe in real/non-technical terms.

What you say is exactly what I mean by safety. Accidents that are not rider fault (e.g. because the rider disabled tiltback/warnings or so and overleaned the wheel, that's not a safety issue)

Nobody wants surprise cut-outs (that pretty much is the definition of safety, no surprise falls), and I see no indication that the current Gotways are better or worse than other brand's current wheels in this regard.

Maybe a list can make it clearer.

• Safety issues: mosfets blowing while riding, cables melting while riding, wheel falling apart while riding, wheel randomly switches off while riding, sudden oscillation/bucking while riding, fuse blows without warning, criminally undersized components (like thin cables) even if they work (I would blamethe manufacturer on any issues with that), ...
• You can argue about it: falling with a weak motor or small battery, tiltback to abrupt so it throws you off, riding up a 250% incline and the wheel breaks with no warning, slippery pedals, pedals too low - safety issues with the wheel, or not? I guess it depends how well you can expect the problem to happen.
• Not safety issues: tiltback can be disabled, warnings can be disabled, overleaning the wheel and falling because warnings are disabled or were ignored, going too fast and crashing, shitty build quality, shitty QC, side panels fall off because the screw holes are worn out, ...

So, if it's overwhelmingly the manufacturers fault and leads (or can likely lead) to a crash, that's a safety issue. Everything else is not. That's how I would make the distinction. In the end, I just want to know "If I don't do something wrong, I won't crash" about my wheel. If it does that, it's "safe". I just don't want the manufacturer to crash me. Only I am allowed to do that

Maybe some people see some rider behaviors and "optional" features (warnings can be disabled) as safety relevant in a wider sense.

@Marcglider has a good point, maybe we should compare the safety of individual wheels or wheel generations, not of manufacturers overall. Then I would say, all the current wheels (KS S series, GW Tesla and later, all Inmotions, IPS i5) are more or less equally safe.

[Lutalo]

2 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

What you say is exactly what I mean by safety. Accidents that are not rider fault (e.g. because the rider disabled tiltback/warnings or so and overleaned the wheel, that's not a safety issue)

Nobody wants surprise cut-outs (that pretty much is the definition of safety, no surprise falls), and I see no indication that the current Gotways are better or worse than other brand's current wheels in this regard.

Maybe a list can make it clearer.

• Safety issues: mosfets blowing while riding, cables melting while riding, wheel falling apart while riding, wheel randomly switches off while riding, sudden oscillation/bucking while riding, fuse blows without warning, criminally undersized components (like thin cables) even if they work (I would blamethe manufacturer on any issues with that), ...
• You can argue about it: falling with a weak motor or small battery, tiltback to abrupt so it throws you off, riding up a 250% incline and the wheel breaks with no warning, slippery pedals, pedals too low - safety issues with the wheel, or not? I guess it depends how well you can expect the problem to happen.
• Not safety issues: tiltback can be disabled, warnings can be disabled, overleaning the wheel and falling because warnings are disabled or were ignored, going too fast and crashing, shitty build quality, shitty QC, side panels fall off because the screw holes are worn out, ...

So, if it's overwhelmingly the manufacturers fault and leads (or can likely lead) to a crash, that's a safety issue. Everything else is not. That's how I would make the distinction. In the end, I just want to know "If I don't do something wrong, I won't crash" about my wheel. If it does that, it's "safe". I just don't want the manufacturer to crash me. Only I am allowed to do that

Maybe some people see some rider behaviors and "optional" features (warnings can be disabled) as safety relevant in a wider sense.

Ok, cool. I get what you mean more clearly. Thanks for the clarification. 

[Marcglider]

4 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

What you say is exactly what I mean by safety. Accidents that are not rider fault (e.g. because the rider disabled tiltback/warnings or so and overleaned the wheel, that's not a safety issue)

Nobody wants surprise cut-outs (that pretty much is the definition of safety, no surprise falls), and I see no indication that the current Gotways are better or worse than other brand's current wheels in this regard.

Maybe a list can make it clearer.

• Safety issues: mosfets blowing while riding, cables melting while riding, wheel falling apart while riding, wheel randomly switches off while riding, sudden oscillation/bucking while riding, fuse blows without warning, criminally undersized components (like thin cables) even if they work (I would blamethe manufacturer on any issues with that), ...
• You can argue about it: falling with a weak motor or small battery, tiltback to abrupt so it throws you off, riding up a 250% incline and the wheel breaks with no warning, slippery pedals, pedals too low - safety issues with the wheel, or not? I guess it depends how well you can expect the problem to happen.
• Not safety issues: tiltback can be disabled, warnings can be disabled, overleaning the wheel and falling because warnings are disabled or were ignored, going too fast and crashing, shitty build quality, shitty QC, side panels fall off because the screw holes are worn out, ...

So, if it's overwhelmingly the manufacturers fault and leads (or can likely lead) to a crash, that's a safety issue. Everything else is not. That's how I would make the distinction. In the end, I just want to know "If I don't do something wrong, I won't crash" about my wheel. If it does that, it's "safe". I just don't want the manufacturer to crash me. Only I am allowed to do that

Maybe some people see some rider behaviors and "optional" features (warnings can be disabled) as safety relevant in a wider sense.

@Marcglider has a good point, maybe we should compare the safety of wheels, not of manufacturers. Then I would say, all the current wheels (KS S series, GW Tesla and later, all Inmotions, IPS i5) are more or less equally safe.

WOW!!!!  Perfectly Stated and explained   

[meepmeepmayer]

@Lutalo Didn't mean to argue with you It just seems a big part of the discussion is "What is safety?" in the first place, and maybe some people will just disagree how "safe" GW is in general?

@Marcglider Thx

[Lutalo]

2 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

@Lutalo Didn't mean to argue with you It just seems a big part of the discussion is "What is safety?" in the first place, and maybe some people will just disagree how "safe" GW is in general?

@Marcglider Thx

Perfectly alright. Knowledge is discussion's reward, and informed decisions reward knowledge. So again, thank you for the clarification.

[Lutalo]

3 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

Because they don’t want their customers to die.

Hopefully, that is the true underlying motivation, and not incidental to fear of liability; hey, but that's another discussion. ??

[Lutalo]

3 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

Yes, I hear that from all of gotway fanboys.    To me it is the fault of the wheel.  Why even allow that to happen?  My guess is not that gotway is giving you the freedom to kill yourself, but they didn’t put in the effort to figure out the limits of the wheel and build firmware around the limits to prevent that from ever happening.  

That is just irresponsible as a manufacturer. Why is there a rev limit on engines?  Why don’t they just let you rev until the engine blows up?  They put rev limits into the engine control unit.  Because they don’t want their customers to die.  No such though in gotways mind.  

Good and interesting point.

[eddiemoy]

1 hour ago, Marcglider said:

So this is kind of what I am talking about... you say you Like the Tesla but the case is Flimsy... OK  If that is your only issue as it pertains to this particular wheel(your words not mine), then let's separate the past safety/quality issues and deal with the CURRENT... 

The Quality of a new Mercedes far exceeds a new Ford, but I am not going to pull articles about the old Ford Pinto's and their exploding gas tanks and use that in a current decision, each "New Vehicle" should stand on its own...

One more observation @eddiemoy and I will bow out of future comments on this thread... I watched your video on V10F and the problems you were having... I found it a bit disturbing from a couple of stand points, mostly that they would release the firmware and new wheel before working out some major issues. If you were to get thrown off which looks like it could have been the case if you pushed harder, and got hurt, and posted negatively, it would have been bad and the wrong thing to do...,  I actually think that the future results from your video will be great, I think Bob's reaction and the fact he said he will have you ck the update before release speaks volume's for them. 

I am a "FANBOY" of riding EUC's, that's it!!  We need to understand people are making decisions in this relatively new, up and coming and evolving "Hobby" on information from this Forum... I think we need to responsibly focus on the current and future items, and use the past issues as a gauge of how well the individual companies and the hobby in general are evolving... 

You cannot have safety without the past.  It requires time to prove that they are safer now then they were.  That is why I kept on saying gotway has some work to do to dig themselves out of the bad reputation they have created.  You see incremental improvements they have made.  But how that affects their safety don’t know until months down the road.  

There is no one wheel that is perfect.  There are pros and cons of all wheels.  To only talk about the good without bringing out the bad is just being a fanboy.  

What inmotion did was a total surprise.  Looks like they rushed out the firmware.  They made improvements and setbacks in the update.  Yes I’m sure they will fix it.  It isn’t as bad as the gotway firmware mistake.  At least this could be fixed by the user over the air so to speak.  There is no such thing on gotway.  They still haven’t figured it how to join the 21st century.  

[mrelwood]

One problem with us as humans - fanboy or not - is that we have an unsuppressable subconcious urge to defend our purchase (and other) decisions. Even abstract things we have had nothing to do with. For example, most citizen will surely say their country is the best in the world despite never even being abroad, and not knowing anything about a single other country. The phenomenon goes far back, to defending one’s pack.

Belonging to a group has the same effect, and a purchase decision puts you in an abstract group as well. We are all way more vocal in defending our own than being able to have an actual objective look on the matter. Marty has heard a lot of GW bashing, and every now and then politely brings up points that GW has better. Eddiemoy seems to feel that the manufacturer is irresponsible, and that if people knew what he knows, they would make the same decision and not buy GW.

It seems I’m still wondering wether there could be an outcome or even a path to take in this discussion that would be worth very much. It’s a bit of a group fight to read, and I’m not sure how a new reader can pick the actual meaningful facts from the haystack.

And to state the obvious, I absolutely behave the exact same way, both consciously and subconsciously. I know better than average, my brand is the best, and the irresponsible GW should be slapped. There. Back to waiting for my Msuper X to arrive. 

[mezzanine]

3 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

You cannot have safety without the past.  It requires time to prove that they are safer now then they were.  That is why I kept on saying gotway has some work to do to dig themselves out of the bad reputation they have created.  You see incremental improvements they have made.  But how that affects their safety don’t know until months down the road.  

There is no one wheel that is perfect.  There are pros and cons of all wheels.  To only talk about the good without bringing out the bad is just being a fanboy.  

What inmotion did was a total surprise.  Looks like they rushed out the firmware.  They made improvements and setbacks in the update.  Yes I’m sure they will fix it.  It isn’t as bad as the gotway firmware mistake.  At least this could be fixed by the user over the air so to speak.  There is no such thing on gotway.  They still haven’t figured it how to join the 21st century.  

Yup, we hope that Gotway has improved and that their new wheels will represent a significant departure from their historical problems.  We can even try to evaluate the new wheels individually, and extrapolate that they shouldn't fall prey to old problems.  It's why I'm interested in the MSuper X and it's the leading contender for my next wheel purchase.  I won't be the canary in the coal mine, though, precisely because I'm aware of their past issues.  

FWIW, I've theorized that the new Inmotion isn't the same as the old Inmotion, the identical name not withstanding.  My theory is that the old Inmotion was a much more robust and well-financed company, more akin to Ninebot.  I figure they poured a tonne of R&D into the V5F and V8 when they thought the EUC market might take off and then realized that they'd mistaken the potential size of the market.  It's why I've been skeptical about the V10 being as high quality as their previous machines.  It looks to me like they just re-purposed a lot of previous parts inventory and slapped a bigger engine in there.  I could be wrong about that if they did a major overhaul of the electronics.    

If I was investor, I would have loved the possibility to invest in the "new" Inmotion, with all the brand association from the past, even though the actual company probably isn't similar in any way to the old one.  As a buyer, I feel the opposite, and would make an analogy to a product that was previously build in the USA and then had their factory moved to China without disclosing any change in the manufacturing.  

[Unventor]

2 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

One problem with us as humans - fanboy or not - is that we have an unsuppressable subconcious urge to defend our purchase (and other) decisions. Even abstract things we have had nothing to do with. For example, most citizen will surely say their country is the best in the world despite never even being abroad, and not knowing anything about a single other country. The phenomenon goes far back, to defending one’s pack.

Belonging to a group has the same effect, and a purchase decision puts you in an abstract group as well. We are all way more vocal in defending our own than being able to have an actual objective look on the matter. Marty has heard a lot of GW bashing, and every now and then politely brings up points that GW has better. Eddiemoy seems to feel that the manufacturer is irresponsible, and that if people knew what he knows, they would make the same decision and not buy GW.

It seems I’m still wondering wether there could be an outcome or even a path to take in this discussion that would be worth very much. It’s a bit of a group fight to read, and I’m not sure how a new reader can pick the actual meaningful facts from the haystack.

And to state the obvious, I absolutely behave the exact same way, both consciously and subconsciously. I know better than average, my brand is the best, and the irresponsible GW should be slapped. There. Back to waiting for my Msuper X to arrive. 

Sometimes people need to conclude that their reasons for decisionmake are different from one another. They can right both...this is why diversity is a good thing. It reminds us of this.

One great skill I learned (ok it is not something I can claim to master...yet?) when working as a teamleader, was to be able to take 2 steps back and 4 to the side and review a discussion or a situation but to review another's persons point of view to learn from. @mrelwood I like your referral to the works of human mind..or maybe say behaviour. 

[mezzanine]

10 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

One problem with us as humans - fanboy or not - is that we have an unsuppressable subconcious urge to defend our purchase (and other) decisions. Even abstract things we have had nothing to do with. For example, most citizen will surely say their country is the best in the world despite never even being abroad, and not knowing anything about a single other country. The phenomenon goes far back, to defending one’s pack.

Belonging to a group has the same effect, and a purchase decision puts you in an abstract group as well. We are all way more vocal in defending our own than being able to have an actual objective look on the matter. Marty has heard a lot of GW bashing, and every now and then politely brings up points that GW has better. Eddiemoy seems to feel that the manufacturer is irresponsible, and that if people knew what he knows, they would make the same decision and not buy GW.

It seems I’m still wondering wether there could be an outcome or even a path to take in this discussion that would be worth very much. It’s a bit of a group fight to read, and I’m not sure how a new reader can pick the actual meaningful facts from the haystack.

And to state the obvious, I absolutely behave the exact same way, both consciously and subconsciously. I know better than average, my brand is the best, and the irresponsible GW should be slapped. There. Back to waiting for my Msuper X to arrive. 

 

I'm absolutely convinced that this is what underlies most defenses of Gotway.  There was a thread recently where someone got upset that people were commenting about the historical failure rate of Gotways based on published data by two of the largest EUC sellers in the world.  If you want to observe folks exhibiting post purchase rationalization (the technical name of the phenomenon you're describing), go read that thread.  It's kinda embarrassing, the lack of self-awareness exhibited by those unconsciously invested in a brand.  They're really invested in the idea that they're "objective."  

Where I disagree with your post is that it assumes all sides are equal.  They are not.  One brand has an industry-leading reputation for safety and reliability, the other brand has caused major sellers to question dropping their product all together because of the rate at which they fail.  

[Marty Backe]

6 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

But Marty, realistically out of the 9 GWs, how many issues did you have?  Be honest.  Shims.  Melted wires.  List them all.  I know they’ve made improvements probably due to you having issues.  Don’t play it all off saying there were no issues other than firmware.  

I was responding to @ir_fuel's comment about failures within the first hour of ownership. By that definition I've only had one failure (defective firmware). Of course I agree with you regarding all the other issues that I've had.

[mrelwood]

3 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

Where I disagree with your post is that it assumes all sides are equal.  They are not.  One brand has an industry-leading reputation for safety and reliability, the other brand has caused major sellers to question dropping their product all together because of the rate at which they fail.

I didn’t mean to bring them up as equal. If one thing can be factual in the world it is that GW wheels have not been very safe, not technically, and not by user adjustable and removable functions.

But from that point onwards, it turns to a wahoo quite fast, and it’s up to defining the parameters. What is ”safe”, how much is ”enough”, and ”become” when?

[mezzanine]

7 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I didn’t mean to bring them up as equal. If one thing can be factual in the world it is that GW wheels have not been very safe, not technically, and not by user adjustable and removable functions.

But from that point onwards, it turns to a wahoo quite fast, and it’s up to defining the parameters. What is ”safe”, how much is ”enough”, and ”become” when?

You did kind of equivocate about both sides contributing to the tone of discussion.  Talking in generalities about how each person will defend their country, etc... 
Just sayin'.  

[novazeus]

personally, i am thrilled there are gotways and gotway riders out there.

i figure, as shoddy as their workmanship looks to me, and @Marty Backe and others still love them and they haven’t died, wheels or riders,  on torturous journeys  that i don’t think cordless electric motor wheels are even designed for makes me feel safer(not saying that i am) on quality looking builds like inmotion(V10F), ninebot(the Z10) and kingsong(especially the new matte black 18L).

it’s been so hot and humid at the ranch, i’ve barely ridden any lately, damn sure couldn’t wear protective gear.

since my profession isn’t building wheels, i can only judge a wheel’s quality by it’s workmanship. like looking inside a big desktop computer, hard to tell if it will even boot up just by looking at it, but it’s a start.

i’m not a professional mason, carpenter, painter, plumber, electrician, roofer, plasterer, glazer, trim carpenter, hvac tech, electronics engineer, etc etc etc but i have done them all, professionally. i am jack of all trades, master of none and i would never had hired me to do work on anyone of the hundreds of million dollar homes i built(i actually did some of the work on my low income award winning homes for the government and on the high end homes also when the tradesmen would tell me what i was asking for was impossible). 

the buck stopped with me on everything i built from the custom golf clubs i built at age 16 til now.

my professional life has been about looking at other people’s work and many times, finding flaws or ways that their work could be improved. 

i don’t have the knowledge to look at the circuit boards or software computations, nor do i want that knowledge, i have bigger fish to fry, but if there are people on this forum that can, and determine why a wheel is better and safer, i’m all ears. 

all i can do is look at workmanship, scan the internet for failure reports and try to learn as much as possible. in the meanwhile, i’ll continue to putt back and forth on my flat, no strain driveway at 15 mph or less, maybe start my pasture riding again.

safety, ie the wheel not cutting off for no good reason, is the most important to me. i’m pretty adept at running off, but i haven’t, knock on wood, experienced a cut off.

so, i’m still looking for advice, should i not ride my 9bot1’s, e+,s1,s2 since they are smaller motors and smaller batteries(my e+ with it’s weird pedal sensation and recent speed increases to like 17mph before tiltback, makes me nervous) and just ride my other wheels?

[eddiemoy]

43 minutes ago, novazeus said:

personally, i am thrilled there are gotways and gotway riders out there.

i figure, as shoddy as their workmanship looks to me, and @Marty Backe and others still love them and they haven’t died, wheels or riders,  on torturous journeys  that i don’t think cordless electric motor wheels are even designed for makes me feel safer(not saying that i am) on quality looking builds like inmotion(V10F), ninebot(the Z10) and kingsong(especially the new matte black 18L).

it’s been so hot and humid at the ranch, i’ve barely ridden any lately, damn sure couldn’t wear protective gear.

since my profession isn’t building wheels, i can only judge a wheel’s quality by it’s workmanship. like looking inside a big desktop computer, hard to tell if it will even boot up just by looking at it, but it’s a start.

i’m not a professional mason, carpenter, painter, plumber, electrician, roofer, plasterer, glazer, trim carpenter, hvac tech, electronics engineer, etc etc etc but i have done them all, professionally. i am jack of all trades, master of none and i would never had hired me to do work on anyone of the hundreds of million dollar homes i built(i actually did some of the work on my low income award winning homes for the government and on the high end homes also when the tradesmen would tell me what i was asking for was impossible). 

the buck stopped with me on everything i built from the custom golf clubs i built at age 16 til now.

my professional life has been about looking at other people’s work and many times, finding flaws or ways that their work could be improved. 

i don’t have the knowledge to look at the circuit boards or software computations, nor do i want that knowledge, i have bigger fish to fry, but if there are people on this forum that can, and determine why a wheel is better and safer, i’m all ears. 

all i can do is look at workmanship, scan the internet for failure reports and try to learn as much as possible. in the meanwhile, i’ll continue to putt back and forth on my flat, no strain driveway at 15 mph or less, maybe start my pasture riding again.

safety, ie the wheel not cutting off for no good reason, is the most important to me. i’m pretty adept at running off, but i haven’t, knock on wood, experienced a cut off.

so, i’m still looking for advice, should i not ride my 9bot1’s, e+,s1,s2 since they are smaller motors and smaller batteries(my e+ with it’s weird pedal sensation and recent speed increases to like 17mph before tiltback, makes me nervous) and just ride my other wheels?

If I were you, I wouldn’t ride the ninebots anymore.  You have so many superior wheels to choose from.  I use the Ninebot to teach because they are going so slow.  Once they are good enough to hit the Ninebot tiltback, I switch them (my kids) over.  

[novazeus]

1 minute ago, eddiemoy said:

If I were you, I wouldn’t ride the ninebots anymore.  You have so many superior wheels to choose from.  I use the Ninebot to teach because they are going so slow.  Once they are good enough to hit the Ninebot tiltback, I switch them (my kids) over.  

yeah, that’s what i was thinking. save the little 9bots for my little gfs that probably weigh less than 110 pounds. i think they’d be safer on them than me.

figured i’d use the ks16s for learning new stuff on pavement. they are ruggedly built. the 18s is great for training too because it is the most physical wheel so far for me.