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MSuper X vs. KS18L: Has Gotway become 'safe enough'?


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Hi Marty, yep, range is a big factor for me. I frequently seem to max out my KS14D at 18ish mph, and I can see myself cruising at around 22-25 mph after I upgrade (or possibly above that in very rare cases after I spend a while getting used to the new wheel) when I make long trips which that likely will be longer than 15 miles. I've recently been riding alongside my friend who owns a Onewheel+ XR, which he's found to have about 20 or so miles of range and a safe cruising speed of ~20mph. I've had to stop and recharge my KS14D during our longest trips, and those trips aren't even as long as some we have planned, where even he will need to charge up! ? So yes, I'm afraid that if I choose the KS18L, I would encounter an unfavorable amount of throttling and possibly even run into buyer's regret down the road. The main thing (or I guess the only thing really) stopping me from choosing the MSX over the KS18L was safety concerns, but if an experienced rider like yourself believes that I shouldn't be too worried about it, then I think I've pretty much made my choice. Thanks for the advice!

 

That's good to hear, Rocky. I was initially worried about some posters' concern over too sudden of a tiltback on Gotway wheels, but I supposed it's been remedied in the MSX. Even more reason to favor it!

Edited by ndmcc
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55 minutes ago, ndmcc said:

Like many others right now, I'm debating between possibly upgrading to King Song's KS18L or Gotway's MSuper X (I was looking at the Z10 as well, but narrowed it down to just the two after much consideration). I love my KS14D to death, and it has been a blast to learn on it and ride it around town, but its range and top speed are juuuust under what I need. I don't want to have to upgrade for a while due to how expensive (for me) these wheels can be, so I'm going all out if I end up upgrading. My choice has come down to these factors (I felt a table was the best way to show my thoughts):

Comparison.png.e052ee2853235efac60977968865394a.png

I'm also a bit worried about Gotway's app and connectivity situation, but I know that with enough persistence and troubleshooting/app switching you can get done what you need to get done on either wheel despite each brand's app quirks. I would spring for the MSX right away, if it wasn't for the safety concerns over Gotway's products. I just recently joined the EUC community, but from what I can gather, Gotway has been improving on safety and shifting away from their history of high failure rates, seeing as to how most of the MSX's improvements over the MS V3S+ have to with durability, like improving the MOSFETs and implementing metal screw holds. However, after seeing the messy inside of an MSX versus the clean inside of an 18L we've come to love and expect from King Song, my doubts returned about Gotway's quality measures. I'm also a bit concerned about how there was a structural difference between the first and second batch of the MSX... What if there's an issue in the second batch that will be fixed in the third batch, that we haven't discovered yet? 

So, I wonder what your guys' opinion is on this matter. Should I go with the MSX, arguably the highest-performing wheel available right now despite Gotway's shaky track record with quality, or deal with the shortcomings of the (still very respectable) KS18L for the sake of historical reliability? Also, this is my first post on this forum, and I know this is a hot topic right now, so please let me know if I would be better suited to post somewhere else or delete the post entirely. Thanks! 

Seems to me that more range is a big issue for you. The MSX has the clear advantage here as your decision chart points out. It seems to me that based on your stated priorities, and the fact that you loved your last KS.

It comes down to how much of a range upgrade you realistically need. If you need just a bit more range then a KS 18L will be a substantial range upgrade. If you need "lost and trying to find your way back to civilization" range then the Gotway MSX is your wheel.

Since my son has ordered an 18L, I am considering an MSX. I am not sure yet how serious the consideration, as I have loved the KS wheels. The reason is that my son is an urban commuter and I am more of a recreational rider. I rather enjoy exploring the many miles of magnificent trail systems that connect the Washington DC area.

The extra miles on tap would provide more room for free exploration without needing to eventually hit the subway to conserve battery.

Unlike my son, I ride more leisurely and don't really ride with preset daily destinations. I suspect that I would actually ride more miles if I was properly equipped with the range capability.

The 18L is still my overall favorite, but because of the expense I want some years to pass before I need to seriously consider upgrading yet again and the higher range ceiling ensures that it won't be necessary. At the end of the day I think that you will enjoy either wheel as long as it meets your pragmatic needs.

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Hi Lutalo, thanks for the thoughts. I’ve been able to get around on my KS14D just barely leaving enough battery to get home, but I’ve had to avoid going down many interesting looking trails to do so. I use my EUC to commute as well as explore, and it would be nice to not have to worry about being throttled or running out of juice in the middle of nowhere. I likely would be OK in terms of not dying on the KS18L, but making the home stretch back to my starting spot at 12mph would definitely be a little bit annoying, and since I’m not likely to upgrade for a while, it’s good to have extra range. My only hesitation on the MSX was safety, but it seems like something I need not worry about, especially for the reasons Marty pointed out.

 

Meepmeep, thanks for pointing that out. I was mostly concerned about safety, and quality was still important to me but not as much as whether or not I could trust the wheel. If the MSX’s safety is on par with other wheels like the 18L, and quality is good enough to the point where it won’t affect safety and your shell has survived some beatings, then I don’t think I should be too concerned. Really, I just made this post to verify whether or not the safety of the MSX is able to compete with other high-end wheels, and it seems to me from the replies I’ve gotten so far (including yours) like it can.

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Looking at your table (which is very calculated by the way), you have two HIGHs (and a low) against just the one HIGH. So your decision should be obvious. So the fact that you have asked the questions would suggest (to me) one of two things;

  1. The construction / historic safety is significantly more important to you than the speed limiting and range, or
  2. You really just want someone to tell you to buy the KS-18L.

Of course, only you can decide which way to go, but there are two things that may be worth pointing out...

  • With the KS-18L you will still get at least 2½ times the battery capacity of your KS-14D - and that is a big step up. And
  • There is talk of a larger battery version of the KS-18L in the works - and as that is more a matter of fitting the batteries (not designing a whole new wheel) it would most likely have a shorter development time than the "current" KS-18L.

Now if you have just read this and thought that 2½ times the capacity is not enough and that you also don't want to wait, then I think you have your answer... Alternatively, if you think 2½ times capacity is plenty (or that it would be worth waiting for the KS-18L+) then you may have come to a different conclusion...   :D

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It’s actually the opposite, TFU, I was really wanting someone to tell me that the MSX is just as safe as any other wheel! You’re right, I should have put a “very high” or something next to safety, because that’s really what initially kept me from going with the MSX. I wasn’t exactly sure how justified the concerns about Gotway’s safety on here actually were, and I wanted to make sure the wheel I would be likely to own for a long time before upgrading again wouldn’t start having reliability or safety issues that something like the 18L wouldn’t. My actions still need mod approval since I’m a newbie here on the forum, but as you’ll be able to see once my comments become approved, I’ve echoed this point to the other commenters here as well. Don’t get me wrong, the 18L is an awesome wheel, but you’re right. I should have seen from the beginning that the choice was obvious, but I wanted to check with people who know what they’re talking about on here before pulling the trigger. Thanks for your insight!

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First I would like to thank ndmcc for this thread and his thoroughness. 

Second I would like to also thank Marty for his  thoughts which were executed without negligence or omissions as well ?. You and the others are a true pillar of strength. I have learned much through you all. Marty most definitely knows much, much more than I do when it comes to EUC's. So I do look to him and others for their compendium of wisdom on such topics.

 I personally might dial in and get a 1300wh msuper X. Just had a bad track record from 2 gotway's in a row sadly. Which I might add; I never took either of them to extremes. However I must have just ended up with 2 from a bad batch.

I am also looking forward to see what esaj has to say about this perhaps? ?

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Aw thanks Vikas! I guess my overanalysis of every choice I make has come in handy for once! ? Yeah, I definitely think it’s cool how all EUC riders from newbies like me to those with a lot of experience like Marty can gather here and discuss our common ground. I’m sorry about your bad luck with batches! If I may ask, what issues have you had with your two Gotways? I preordered mine just now from ewheels, and I’ve had nothing but good experiences with their support, so hopefully they’ll be able to help me out if I do happen to run into any weird issues. 

 

Marty, it’s good to know that you trust the MSX, it definitely helps alleviate concerns about my choice. I can definitely respect the uniqueness itch, I just wish I had the dough to scratch mine! ? Thanks for your input on this, and thanks to everyone else in this thread as well, I appreciate it!

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I’ll be sure to! I’m not sure how long it will take for my MSX to arrive from ewheels, given I’m probably pretty far down the queue having just placed an order, but my KS14D is still good to go after a tire change (parts arriving soon)!

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1 hour ago, ndmcc said:

Hi Lutalo, thanks for the thoughts. I’ve been able to get around on my KS14D just barely leaving enough battery to get home, but I’ve had to avoid going down many interesting looking trails to do so. I use my EUC to commute as well as explore, and it would be nice to not have to worry about being throttled or running out of juice in the middle of nowhere. I likely would be OK in terms of not dying on the KS18L, but making the home stretch back to my starting spot at 12mph would definitely be a little bit annoying, and since I’m not likely to upgrade for a while, it’s good to have extra range. My only hesitation on the MSX was safety, but it seems like something I need not worry about, especially for the reasons Marty pointed out.

 

Meepmeep, thanks for pointing that out. I was mostly concerned about safety, and quality was still important to me but not as much as whether or not I could trust the wheel. If the MSX’s safety is on par with other wheels like the 18L, and quality is good enough to the point where it won’t affect safety and your shell has survived some beatings, then I don’t think I should be too concerned. Really, I just made this post to verify whether or not the safety of the MSX is able to compete with other high-end wheels, and it seems to me from the replies I’ve gotten so far (including yours) like it can.

No worries. My pleasure to share some thoughts. Seems like you have your answer. If I may make one last recommendation in case you are somewhat torn between the 1300wh and 1600wh versions; go for the gusto. Splurge for the 1600wh version for the best range on the market right now.

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31 minutes ago, Lutalo said:

No worries. My pleasure to share some thoughts. Seems like you have your answer. If I may make one last recommendation in case you are somewhat torn between the 1300wh and 1600wh versions; go for the gusto. Splurge for the 1600wh version for the best range on the market right now.

How could I not? ? I’m hoping to not have to upgrade for a long while, so the max range version is a must for me. In my preorder I forgot to specify this, but I sent ewheels an email clarifying which model I wanted to order, and I’m sure they will reach out to be sure when I reach the top of the queue.

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1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Many say that I'm a Gotway fanboy, which I'm probably guilty of. But I love my KS14S and I'm spending my hard earned money on a Z10. So I have no problems recommending different wheel manufacturers.

Frankly, in 2018 we have an abundance of quality wheels. I'm not overly concerned about any of them quitting on me as I'm riding. I'm buying the MSuper X, and believe me, I have no desire to have an accident riding it due to poor quality. So I'm literally putting my money where my mouth is.

I think the 18L is going to be a fantastic wheel but it's not a good match for people who want to take 5-hour rides (me). The only reason that I'm buying the battery limited Z10 is because it's such a unique wheel that it scratches my 'uniqueness itch'.

Thankyou, it would be a craven of surrenderance and an abdication of my very principle if I didn't mention any of the above. I hope if I'm in your neck of the woods you would perhaps extend an invitation for me to ride with you and company.

Edited by Vikas
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1 hour ago, ndmcc said:

Aw thanks Vikas! I guess my overanalysis of every choice I make has come in handy for once! ? Yeah, I definitely think it’s cool how all EUC riders from newbies like me to those with a lot of experience like Marty can gather here and discuss our common ground. I’m sorry about your bad luck with batches! If I may ask, what issues have you had with your two Gotways? I preordered mine just now from ewheels, and I’ve had nothing but good experiences with their support, so hopefully they’ll be able to help me out if I do happen to run into any weird issues. 

 

Marty, it’s good to know that you trust the MSX, it definitely helps alleviate concerns about my choice. I can definitely respect the uniqueness itch, I just wish I had the dough to scratch mine! ? Thanks for your input on this, and thanks to everyone else in this thread as well, I appreciate it!

I trust Marty as well and others on here too. The two gotways were and acm version 1 and an acm version 2. Both cut out while I was going about 25 km/hr. One had a circuit board changed and failed again. The other sadly is sitting in my closet. Proper warranty was not given to me from the person I got the machine from in the past. The acm 1300wh version 2 also did not have a 1300wh battery. It was only 820wh. I was short changed several ways. Anyways water under the bridge. I dont deal in dualistic absolutes. 

And you are very welcome indeed. ?

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5 hours ago, ndmcc said:

Should I go with the MSX, arguably the highest-performing wheel available right now

You are forgetting the 100V Monster.

Edited by Edddeus
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21 minutes ago, Edddeus said:

You are forgetting the 100V Monster.

Shoot, you’re right! I kind of glossed over the monster as it’s a bit out of my price range and lacks a bit of maneuverability, but it is indeed the best of the best in regards to specs. If I ever decide to go cross country on an EUC, I’ll know what to get ?

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30 minutes ago, ndmcc said:

lacks a bit of maneuverability

You can manoeuvre the Monster like it is an 18 inch wheel.

Edited by Edddeus
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1 hour ago, Vikas said:

I trust Marty as well and others on here too. The two gotways were and acm version 1 and an acm version 2. Both cut out while I was going about 25 km/hr. One had a circuit board changed and failed again. The other sadly is sitting in my closet. Proper warranty was not given to me from the person I got the machine from in the past. The acm 1300wh version 2 also did not have a 1300wh battery. It was only 820wh. I was short changed several ways. Anyways water under the bridge. I dont deal in dualistic absolutes. 

And you are very welcome indeed. ?

Please what???

Your Acm2 1300wh had only a 820wh battery? the 820wh battery is 67volt...while an Acm2 is 84volts...so you didnt receive an Acm2 but only a old Acm 67volt?! so if thats true thats a total scam of the seller! Has nothing todo with warranty than...thats just fraud.

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3 hours ago, US69 said:

Please what???

Your Acm2 1300wh had only a 820wh battery? the 820wh battery is 67volt...while an Acm2 is 84volts...so you didnt receive an Acm2 but only a old Acm 67volt?! so if thats true thats a total scam of the seller! Has nothing todo with warranty than...thats just fraud.

Fraud is absolutely correct. The acm2 84volts had the thicker shell casing and it was heavier than the acm 67 volt version. But that was about it.

Sadly everything else when down hill from there.

Edited by Vikas
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16 hours ago, ndmcc said:

How could I not? ? I’m hoping to not have to upgrade for a long while, so the max range version is a must for me. In my preorder I forgot to specify this, but I sent ewheels an email clarifying which model I wanted to order, and I’m sure they will reach out to be sure when I reach the top of the queue.

No doubt they will. Good luck.

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21 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

BTW, keep an eye on the local group rides section of this forum. Maybe you can join us during one of our rides.

Marty I have a quick question for you, if you don't mind. I was wondering what is the hottest temperature that you have taken a gotway for a spin in? Thanks.

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