Mten3 First Impressions / Review - BUY ONE NOW!!!

[meepmeepmayer]

Wow, cool, an i5 as a first wheel is new here, I believe. Looking forward to see what you think going the extreme choice (weight > anything else). The good thing about this is, should you get another EUC later, it will be quite a different ride and type of wheel, so you have good variety. (To be fair, the same would have applied to the mten3 I guess, though even more it does apply to the i5.)

Also, the i5's shell is easily scratched and chipped, so I recommend padding it up more or less completely (this includes the underside of the pedals) so you don't scratch it up too much on the first few outside rides (where realistically 99% of any damage happens when learning). It's too pretty and nice for just bumping it to smithereens. Even if you just use cardboard+duct tape for the dangerous first few hours on pavement.

Edited November 14, 2017 by meepmeepmayer

[brianle]

14 hours ago, houseofjob said:

It's soldered in, so no.

This would be difficult to do, as different manufacturers use different pin configurations, usually utilizing only 2 pins, even though EUC charging connections are often 3 or 4 pin.

Thanks @houseofjob.    I'm puzzled though, seems like it wouldn't be difficult to have replaceable/swapable end connectors with a universal connector to the cable in lieu of soldering it on.  Well, of course unless you hope to sell more units by making each one connector-specific!    This might succeed in my case, that is if I find that having one of these is worth while.

[brianle]

9 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Also, the i5's shell is easily scratched and chipped, so I recommend padding it up more or less completely (this includes the underside of the pedals) so you don't scratch it up too much on the first few outside rides (where realistically 99% of any damage happens when learning). It's too pretty and nice for just bumping it to smithereens. Even if you just use cardboard+duct tape for the dangerous first few hours on pavement.

@meepmeepmayer, that's a very good idea.  I remember some decades ago that I and multiple friends all learned to ride a (non-electric) unicycle borrowed from a friend.  After a few weeks of this, his bike ('ike' ?) was beat to hell from being dropped so often, sometimes rolling or tumbling a little afterwards if on any sort of hill.   

I recall reading somewhere the idea of learning to ride an EUC with a luggage strap through the carry handle to hopefully keep hold of the unit when I have to step off (or worse), but a crude cardboard shell might be a good idea as well.   Especially since I'm sure my wife will be trying it out too. 

The i5 is supposed to have an aluminum body, and the color is basic black, so some repainting is not out of the question either.

Thank you.

[Keith]

26 minutes ago, brianle said:

I recall reading somewhere the idea of learning to ride an EUC with a luggage strap through the carry handle to hopefully keep hold of the unit when I have to step off (or worse),

There is some disagreement in the forum on the use of a strap, but I am very much in favour of it. I think the detractors pull hard on the strap ( like  a rein) and it really screws up your balance. Held loosely so you don’t try to balance with it and it doesn’t restrict your arm movements it allows you to pull the wheel off the ground if it goes out of control and prevent it bouncing off and doing damage. This will be particularly easy with the I5.

To my way of thinking it is vital the first few times (at least!) you go out in public, particularly if loss of control might possibly result in the wheel hitting a car or a person. 

If you can Unicycle already you are very likely to take to an EUC like a duck to water but if you do drop a Unicycle it isn’t going to start powering itself around in violent circles like an EUC might - I learned the hard way just what a clout that can give your ankle bone ?

[houseofjob]

1 hour ago, brianle said:

Thanks @houseofjob.    I'm puzzled though, seems like it wouldn't be difficult to have replaceable/swapable end connectors with a universal connector to the cable in lieu of soldering it on.  Well, of course unless you hope to sell more units by making each one connector-specific!    This might succeed in my case, that is if I find that having one of these is worth while.

Don't think you exactly get me.

So, let's take the 4-pin GX16-4 standard for example. Out of the 4 pinout locations, one company can route the power to pins 1 & 3, while another routes the power to pins 2 & 4, while another routes to pins 1&4, ..... so on & so forth. 

I am admittedly not an EE, but how would you make swappable connectors that don't require DIY soldering back and forth?

[brianle]

1 minute ago, houseofjob said:

Don't think you exactly get me.

So, let's take the 4-pin GX16-4 standard for example. Out of the 4 pinout locations, one company can route the power to pins 1 & 3, while another routes the power to pins 2 & 4, while another routes to pins 1&4, ..... so on & so forth. 

I am admittedly not an EE, but how would you make swappable connectors that don't require DIY soldering back and forth?

Yup, I didn't think it through --- that's obvious now, thanks!

With a fairly new electric bike and now an EUC, I think it will behoove me to read up some (more) on battery technology in general.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

Maybe a simple port adapter would work.  You would need to buy the female port and from that rewire the pins to go where you want them in the male connector on the other end.  That way you just add in the adapter when needed to work with the IPS i5 and unplug it for other wheels.

If you've ever bought one of those crappy Acer computers with the special power connector to the motherboard, you realize that you can't swap in a more powerful power supply without doing something.  You can buy special adapters that reroute the wiring to where it's supposed to go, or you can make a pin removal tool and rewire things.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

[Smoother]

14 hours ago, Keith said:

There is some disagreement in the forum on the use of a strap, but I am very much in favour of it. I think the detractors pull hard on the strap ( like  a rein) and it really screws up your balance. Held loosely so you don’t try to balance with it and it doesn’t restrict your arm movements it allows you to pull the wheel off the ground if it goes out of control and prevent it bouncing off and doing damage. This will be particularly easy with the I5.

To my way of thinking it is vital the first few times (at least!) you go out in public, particularly if loss of control might possibly result in the wheel hitting a car or a person. 

If you can Unicycle already you are very likely to take to an EUC like a duck to water but if you do drop a Unicycle it isn’t going to start powering itself around in violent circles like an EUC might - I learned the hard way just what a clout that can give your ankle bone ?

In addition to this, and what I have written previously, here, I would also like to add this:

when I started training, I spent a lot of time bent double, wheeling my wheel back to a launch aid ( wall, fence, railing, post, etc). You can't just do the one legged start right from un boxing.  This stoop and roll was KILLING my back.  I learned to walk the wheel back to the launch aid by pulling the leash taught, and keeping it upright as I rolled it along.

up until I traded up to a 16s I used the leash on all rides (over 800 miles).  It helps prevent a run away, and more scratches.  The leash is still on my 14c.  I don't use it on the 16s.  Maybe it's the greater stability of the 16 that I'm reacting to.

[radial]

17 hours ago, Smoother said:

I used the leash on all rides (over 800 miles).  

 

What about the shorter rides?  

[Marty Backe]

So at the urging of @Jrkline "Wheel Whisperer" I measure the output from the battery and read 0 volts. After about an hour of prying and swearing, I opened the black plastic box that holds the blue wrapped battery pack. Ripped open the blue wrapping to expose part of the bms boards. Now sometimes I'm reading ~80 volts, and anywhere in between down to 0 volts. I haven't figure out yet what might be the problem.

Does anyone know how BMS boards fail. Does what I describe fit a failure mode seen in the past?

I'm going to keep disassembling the battery pack until I can demonstrate that it's not a wiring problem. Then I assume it's time to buy a new battery pack. Might be cheaper to buy a new Mten3???

[US69]

33 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

So at the urging of @Jrkline "Wheel Whisperer" I measure the output from the battery and read 0 volts. After about an hour of prying and swearing, I opened the black plastic box that holds the blue wrapped battery pack. Ripped open the blue wrapping to expose part of the bms boards. Now sometimes I'm reading ~80 volts, and anywhere in between down to 0 volts. I haven't figure out yet what might be the problem.

Does anyone know how BMS boards fail. Does what I describe fit a failure mode seen in the past?

I'm going to keep disassembling the battery pack until I can demonstrate that it's not a wiring problem. Then I assume it's time to buy a new battery pack. Might be cheaper to buy a new Mten3???

So the output of the complete battery is 0 Volt, but when measuring „some points“ of the Bms you sometimes get 80volt?

Than the BMS has triggered.....means there should be a reason!

Perhaps one of the two 20s packs has failed, so that the BMS shut down because of too big difference.

You should be able to measure the voltage of all cells oln the BMS, you should find instructions on youtube/google.

Not that difficult.

Would be crazy to buy a new battery, when just a cell or the BMS is dead!

[stevedig]

Leash? I messed with them a little but don't like them. Tho I ride with hands in pockets a good bit of the time, there are times when I will throw an arm out to counter some irregularity in the road that skews my balance. I found the leash restricted my ability to compensate in this way. If I put enough length on the leash to allow free movement of the arm I wind up holding a hand full of leash all the time and/or I risking running it over. If I ever have to use that arm in a way that requires me to release the majority of the leash and then drop my arm I'm again at risk of running the leash over and throwing myself. It may be good for others but I have a strong feeling that the restriction of my movement in relation to the wheel threatens me more than not using it threatens those around me. The leash makes me very uncomfortable.

[mezzanine]

Paging @Hunka Hunka Burning Love

I don't have enough knowledge about the battery systems on these wheels, but my goal is to learn over the course of the next year. 

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

  Ah er ah, remember I might pretend to know everything, but it's just pretend!  

Well I've seen some battery BMS packs with a small burned SMD component that actually melted through the shrink wrap.  Unless one is good at SMD soldering, it might be tricky to repair if something is fried.  I've also seen people able to reset the BMS somehow (can't remember the specifics - I think maybe manually rotating the wheel one a treadmill?) while others have replaced just the board itself.  Maybe some photos and voltage readings would be a good place to  start.

 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, KingSong69 said:

So the output of the complete battery is 0 Volt, but when measuring „some points“ of the Bms you sometimes get 80volt?

Than the BMS has triggered.....means there should be a reason!

Perhaps one of the two 20s packs has failed, so that the BMS shut down because of too big difference.

You should be able to measure the voltage of all cells oln the BMS, you should find instructions on youtube/google.

Not that difficult.

Would be crazy to buy a new battery, when just a cell or the BMS is dead!

I found the immediate cause of the battery pack failure, and I'll post a video tomorrow. There is a metal 'bridge' that connect two parts of the battery pack together. It has been burned in half, and from what I can see, one of the cell ends is blackened. I can short the battery packs together and I get 80-volts out of the pack.

So it's looking like this battery pack is toast because I don't have the knowledge on how to replace individual cells.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

Can you also maybe post some photos up?  It would be interesting to see how the battery packs are set up like.  What's the voltage reading on the blackened cell?

Edited November 19, 2017 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

[Marty Backe]

5 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

So the output of the complete battery is 0 Volt, but when measuring „some points“ of the Bms you sometimes get 80volt?

Than the BMS has triggered.....means there should be a reason!

Perhaps one of the two 20s packs has failed, so that the BMS shut down because of too big difference.

You should be able to measure the voltage of all cells oln the BMS, you should find instructions on youtube/google.

Not that difficult.

Would be crazy to buy a new battery, when just a cell or the BMS is dead!

 

3 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Can you also maybe post some photos up?  It would be interesting to see how the battery packs are set up like.  What's the voltage reading on the blackened cell?

 

5 hours ago, mezzanine said:

Paging @Hunka Hunka Burning Love

I don't have enough knowledge about the battery systems on these wheels, but my goal is to learn over the course of the next year. 

Hey Guys. I screwed up and posted this to the wrong thread. So I'm continuing the discussion in this thread, including a new video and photographs which conclusively show how my Mten3 failed - it's not good news for Mten3 owners 

 

[outcast00096]

@Marty Backe. You might have answered this but what battery percentage does the mten3 activate limp mode? 

[Marty Backe]

15 minutes ago, outcast00096 said:

@Marty Backe. You might have answered this but what battery percentage does the mten3 activate limp mode? 

15 percent. Then it's progressive, making you go slower and slower as it drops down to ~5% (the lowest that I've taken it). That occurs at the 18-mile mark for me.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Marty Backe

[outcast00096]

@Marty Backe, thanks. I've been considering getting the 325 version because that makes the most sense financially at the moment. Wasn't sure if it would be worth it when you factor in limp mode

[Marty Backe]

6 minutes ago, outcast00096 said:

@Marty Backe, thanks. I've been considering getting the 325 version because that makes the most sense financially at the moment. Wasn't sure if it would be worth it when you factor in limp mode

You would probably have an effective 8 to 10-mile range (depending on your weight - I'm ~170 pounds). This is not a long range cruising wheel to begin with. To be honest, most of my rides with the Mten3 are under 10 miles.

So if you aren't considering this for long commutes or just want to have it for fun (), the 325wh version would probably be great.

If however you are on the heavier side, for safety and range I would go with the larger battery.

[outcast00096]

@Marty Backe, yeah I"m 182. I find I'm pretty happy riding between 7 to 8 miles. I did a 22 mile ride on my KS18 and other than the lack of proper planning by the cities to make bike lanes and sidewalks, it was pretty great. Although, most of my trips are under 10 miles. Thanks for your help, you are appreciated.

[Marty Backe]

4 minutes ago, outcast00096 said:

@Marty Backe, yeah I"m 182. I find I'm pretty happy riding between 7 to 8 miles. I did a 22 mile ride on my KS18 and other than the lack of proper planning by the cities to make bike lanes and sidewalks, it was pretty great. Although, most of my trips are under 10 miles. Thanks for your help, you are appreciated.

I wouldn't call you heavy. Given what you say, 325wh would probably work great for you.

[Smoother]

39 minutes ago, outcast00096 said:

@Marty Backe, thanks. I've been considering getting the 325 version because that makes the most sense financially at the moment. Wasn't sure if it would be worth it when you factor in limp mode

I haven't read all the posts about this wheel choice, but, having been thrown off a 340Wh wheel more times than I care to remember, I wouldn't recommend a battery that small. never mind the limp mode value.  You'll be the one in limp mode, if your power demand at or around 50% battery is temporarily higher than the BMS will allow.  "Dirt! let me introduce face"  Once my 340Wh is below about 70% I am my own Limp mode; evaluating every slope, every curb ramp, ever need for speed or braking, in order not to be thrown off by the BMS. "rider says yes, BMS says NO! NO! NO! GET OFF ME YOU BE-OTCH!

Just my 2cents

Edited November 21, 2017 by Smoother
ADDED "ME"

[US69]

1 hour ago, outcast00096 said:

@Marty Backe, thanks. I've been considering getting the 325 version because that makes the most sense financially at the moment. Wasn't sure if it would be worth it when you factor in limp mode

I understand financial decisions...but nonetheless:

Do yourself a favor and invest the -relative- bit more money to get the highest watthour versions. Yes, now it is more money, but if you ever thought about upgrading later, you will be screwed up, as then it is more than double the costs to do so!

The 325wh version is probably the same number of cells than the 520wh version...just that the cells dont have 3500mah, and instead only 2200 mah each cell....

That means when upgrading you must change all cells instead of throwing just some more cells in!

Also: The sanyo/pana 3500mah cells are -seeing from an max draw capability- the best cells in the 10Amp range. And for such a small wheel, with “only” 2 parallel systems installed, the max draw capability is very important! We have seen that om Martys pack failure, that the Mten needs a very high amount of amps!!!

 

So in summary, even it is hard to spent/safe some more money now....it would be the better decision....my 2 cents!