Mten3 First Impressions / Review - BUY ONE NOW!!!

[brianle]

It's great to get so much feedback, so quickly.

Ninebot One S2: bigger overall, and but in particular a good bit heavier at 11.4 kg (i5 is 7.5 or maybe 7.7 kg, depending on where I read about it).  
I'll sleep in this for a day or two (more) but still inclined to the i5.

[novazeus]

haha. i just weighed my batman 9bot one s2. 30 pounds. i must have 5 pounds of tape and rubatex on it.

[novazeus]

ipaid $700 for mine. guess batman ain’t selling well.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ninebot-One-S2-black-Batman-edition-with-big-battery-only-for-limited-time-/253094243406

[litewave]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Just to make your choice more difficult , the KS14D is a fantastic wheel. If I can avoid carrying any of my wheels I do, and the KS14D trolley is perfect for moving the wheel when you aren't riding it.

I haven't had the chance to ride the 14D but have tried the 14" Ninebot. I also have roughly 3500km on my 16" E+. I am sure @electricpen will sell his S2 as it is a great deal.

But if I were purchasing my first wheel, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the 14D over the S2 for just a few hundred more, or the other two wheels for that matter.

Edited November 13, 2017 by litewave

[novazeus]

yeah if i had it to do over, just based on other peoples opinions, not mine i’m clueless, i’d done jason’s promo at $740. built in trolley handle. ewheels support etc. and the way remy abuses one and it keeps going.

https://www.ewheels.com/product/new-king-song-14d-420wh-battery800w-motor/

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

Maybe @Tilmann can comment on what he thinks about the IPS i5?

[Marty Backe]

 

[trya]

so sorry to watch this, @Marty Backe

[steve454]

The design and packaging look high quality.  Amazingly compact inside.

[Tilmann]

13 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Maybe @Tilmann can comment on what he thinks about the IPS i5?

Hi @brianle, as there was a lot of excellent feedback already, there's rather little I can add:

• Still love my i5 for exactly your "last mile" runs. The thin profile and the weight sold me and still does. And yes, the 245Wh model weighs in at exactly 7.7 Kg (17 pounds).
• Not only can you jump curbs with the i5, you have to! I neglected that once and just rolled down a curb and the shell hit hard on the curb stone, breaking a little chunk out of it. The sound of that is a real head twister, btw.
• I'm a bit heavier than you (85 Kg). On flat ground I get 10 miles range easily. Despite the very modest motor wattage, it carries me up and down 20° ramps (36%) easily.
• Even with it's thin form factor, it sometimes gets in the way with restaurant visits. It's an obstruction under my seat and it just waits to fall over when leaning on a wall.
• Beeping isn't that bad. Yes, it does not like downhill runs when fully charged, so I just avoid that. With the speed alarm (which cannot and should not be turned off) starting shortly above 20km/h, I look for a cruising speed just slightly below (same logic as yours: I don't put on any protection for last mile runs, so I'd rather not ride faster than I can run).
• Switching the light on and off by leaning the wheel sideways works sometimes - that's a bit annoying. 
• Personally, I never experienced it, but other i5 owners reported unwanted activation of the exposed power button when carrying the i5 in bags or a backpack.
• While it lets you feel it wasn't really meant for it, riding the i5 on gravel paths or wood chips covered ways is well possible. Look out for muddy and sandy spots: the thin tire will dig in instantly.

Side note: I have seen the ninebot S2 offered as low as 299 Euro (US$ 350) at German electronics stores (Media Markt, Berlin) just 2 weeks ago. Not that buying in Germany may be a practical option for you, but searching for bargains on that model may score elsewhere, too.

While I do own a mten2, I never had a chance to try a mten3. Both are significantly different, so I can't really help with a comparison.

My 5-cents-worth-prophetic-wisdom: You'll buy an i5 or mten3, happily ride your last miles, get hooked, and we meet back here in a couple of months discussing performance models ... 

Edited November 13, 2017 by Tilmann

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, steve454 said:

The design and packaging look high quality.  Amazingly compact inside.

I agree 

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

@Tilmann When you getting your Mten3?  

[Tilmann]

17 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

@Tilmann When you getting your Mten3?  

Hihi, nice try! What makes you so keen on seeing me single again, huh? 

[brianle]

@Tilmann , thanks very much !!   Very helpful, I appreciate the details.

Yes, I acknowledge the possibility that I will be back in a while looking for another unit.  The one thing that might hold me back there is the desire to get some exercise when I'm out.  I adore my fairly lightweight eBike, as I get quite a bit of exercise when using it --- mostly turning on the electric assist only for hills.  I now look forward to doing errands on the bike rather than by car.

The other thing is maybe a last-mile EUC will also get me back on my conventional unicycle.  I used to ride that on occasion until my daughter (who also rides) went off to college, ahem, some years ago now.  On the whole I have a bias towards muscle-powered stuff, and am seeing an EUC as just a better alternative (to a folding bike) for replacing car trips.

I'm really impressed at the idea of an EUC for this use, it wasn't something I seriously considered before, and I had been looking, hoping for new smaller/lighter folding bike innovations. 

[Marty Backe]

8 minutes ago, brianle said:

@Tilmann , thanks very much !!   Very helpful, I appreciate the details.

Yes, I acknowledge the possibility that I will be back in a while looking for another unit.  The one thing that might hold me back there is the desire to get some exercise when I'm out.  I adore my fairly lightweight eBike, as I get quite a bit of exercise when using it --- mostly turning on the electric assist only for hills.  I now look forward to doing errands on the bike rather than by car.

The other thing is maybe a last-mile EUC will also get me back on my conventional unicycle.  I used to ride that on occasion until my daughter (who also rides) went off to college, ahem, some years ago now.  On the whole I have a bias towards muscle-powered stuff, and am seeing an EUC as just a better alternative (to a folding bike) for replacing car trips.

I'm really impressed at the idea of an EUC for this use, it wasn't something I seriously considered before, and I had been looking, hoping for new smaller/lighter folding bike innovations. 

After watching some videos this fact might not be apparent; you can get some good exercise while riding an EUC.

Quite often you are in a semi-squat position as you are riding because your legs act as shock absorbers. Plus you get a lot of movement in your core muscles. I can be exhausted after doing a couple of hours riding in mountain trails (any mountain bike trail actually).

So if you use EUCs in non-last-mile situations there is a great opportunity for full body exercise.

[novazeus]

55 minutes ago, Tilmann said:

Side note: I have seen the ninebot S2 offered as low as 299 Euro (US$ 350) at German electronics stores (Media Markt, Berlin) just 2 weeks ago.

dayum! i’d would have bought another one as a spare but i just checked and online aren’t showing any in germany. gotta try to get media markt to the USA, i’ve got a prime location for them.

[Tilmann]

@novazeus: jepp, that offer seems to be over. Here's the presently cheapest one: https://www.amazon.de/dp/B01KOGX3WQ (399 Euro /US$465). Keep in mind: those German prices even include 19% VAT.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Tilmann

[houseofjob]

@brianle Let me offer another opinion, some additional thoughts, having owned all the wheels you mentioned: Gotway Luffy 200WH, iPS i5 245WH & Gotway MTen3 512WH (still own).

• IMHO (at my rider weight of 170lbs) both Luffy & i5 are extremely underpowered, requiring ideal street conditions.
• Even small bumps and grooves (ones that you would not think twice on for regular EUCs) require (for me at least) slight jumping off the pedals because both Luffy & i5 again are very underpowered. I had a fall on a small sidewalk curb dropoff because the EUC could not sustain my weight plus the rebalancing on the minor drop
• The Luffy had the most trouble over minor bumps & grooves. The i5 did better largely due to the bigger diameter of the wheel, as they are both the same motor power.
• AFAIK I was unable to disable any of the beeps on the i5.
• I concur that the i5 power button is way too easy press and power on while carrying or just slightly brushing up on. Eventually you learn to avoid this, but annoying nonetheless.
• i5 range is very impressive, but FWIW you won't be going very fast.
• The i5 power cap is not very well secured (just a thin piece of rubber). On my only fall, this piece got ripped off.
• Storing the i5 under some seats (say under your typical restaurant chair) is still a tad cumbersome simply due to it's height
• While disassembling the i5 is one of the easiest and best on a wheel I've seen, getting air into the tire can be difficult and require deshelling, as there is not a lot of space allowance for a pump cable .

 

• The MTen3 is night and day different in performance than the Luffy or i5; really can stand on it's own as a full-blown wheel due to the wide 3" tire (albeit you need to be careful just on big divots). The Luffy and i5 are really more specialty wheels, whereas the MTen3 is a legit, full EUC.
• IMHO, the ~6.5 lb tradeoff in weight between the i5 and MTen3 is not worth it, especially if you're open to attaching the external trolley. I wasn't in love with having to worry about every single crack riding on the crappy streets of NYC, whereas the MTen3 I ride amongst stop-and-go car traffic at times.
• Though I have not had the parts to try it yet, the MTen3's ability to go tubeless furthers it's value IMHO, as having a wide tire that can be pumped at a lower tire pressure but retain all the shock absorbing properties of a higher PSI is invaluable. AFAIK the thinner Luffy & i5 tire sizes have no tubeless options. Tubeless also means no annoying pinch flats.

 

You can probably see which wheel I favor here, seeing as I've sold all but the MTen3.

Out of my almost 2, going on 3 years of EUC-ing, owning 11, going on 12 wheels of all major manufacturers and sizes, the MTen3 is currently in my top 5 all-time; the others are not anywhere close. (to show I'm not biased towards Gotway or just performance EUCs, the V5F+ is also up there on my list still)

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

[edit] This is all largely based on swapping out the stock MTen3 tire (Ninebot Mini Pro tire where the tread was meant to be used as 2 in tandem) with a much better alternative Mini Pro tire (will be doing a writeup soon)

[edit2] The EUC you seek does not exist because it's the same thing I was searching for! (hence why I owned all these wheels)

Even with the lightest i5, I still did not want to carry this wheel around for more than 5 minutes. The key is to limit the amount of time you have to carry the wheel by trolleying, which neither Luffy nor i5 seem to have a custom option for.

[edit3] I wouldn't touch the lower, ~300WH version of the MTen3 with a ten-foot pole, let alone purchase.

Battery is not just about range, it's about amount of cells that bear the power load. Fitting such a small, low cell count battery pack on an 800W nominal motor is a recipe for disaster IMHO, the same that doomed the now defunct 800W nominal Ninebot One P Pro.

Edited November 13, 2017 by houseofjob

[Marty Backe]

25 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

@brianle Let me offer another opinion, some additional thoughts, having owned all the wheels you mentioned: Gotway Luffy 200WH, iPS i5 245WH & Gotway MTen3 512WH (still own).

• IMHO (at my rider weight of 170lbs) both Luffy & i5 are extremely underpowered, requiring ideal street conditions.
• Even small bumps and grooves (ones that you would not think twice on for regular EUCs) require (for me at least) slight jumping off the pedals because both Luffy & i5 again are very underpowered. I had a fall on a small sidewalk curb dropoff because the EUC could not sustain my weight plus the rebalancing on the minor drop
• The Luffy had the most trouble over minor bumps & grooves. The i5 did better largely due to the bigger diameter of the wheel, as they are both the same motor power.
• AFAIK I was unable to disable any of the beeps on the i5.
• I concur that the i5 power button is way too easy press and power on while carrying or just slightly brushing up on. Eventually you learn to avoid this, but annoying nonetheless.
• i5 range is very impressive, but FWIW you won't be going very fast.
• The i5 power cap is not very well secured (just a thin piece of rubber). On my only fall, this piece got ripped off.
• Storing the i5 under some seats (say under your typical restaurant chair) is still a tad cumbersome simply due to it's height
• While disassembling the i5 is one of the easiest and best on a wheel I've seen, getting air into the tire can be difficult and require deshelling, as there is not a lot of space allowance for a pump cable .

 

• The MTen3 is night and day different in performance than the Luffy or i5; really can stand on it's own as a full-blown wheel due to the wide 3" tire (albeit you need to be careful just on big divots). The Luffy and i5 are really more specialty wheels, whereas the MTen3 is a legit, full EUC.
• IMHO, the ~6.5 lb tradeoff in weight between the i5 and MTen3 is not worth it, especially if you're open to attaching the external trolley. I wasn't in love with having to worry about every single crack riding on the crappy streets of NYC, whereas the MTen3 I ride amongst stop-and-go car traffic at times.
• Though I have not had the parts to try it yet, the MTen3's ability to go tubeless furthers it's value IMHO, as having a wide tire that can be pumped at a lower tire pressure but retain all the shock absorbing properties of a higher PSI is invaluable. AFAIK the thinner Luffy & i5 tire sizes have no tubeless options. Tubeless also means no annoying pinch flats.

 

You can probably see which wheel I favor here, seeing as I've sold all but the MTen3.

Out of my almost 2, going on 3 years of EUC-ing, owning 11, going on 12 wheels of all major manufacturers and sizes, the MTen3 is currently in my top 5 all-time; the others are not anywhere close.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

[edit] this is all largely based on swapping out the stock MTen3 tire (Ninebot Mini Pro tire where the tread was meant to be used as 2 in tandem) with a much better alternative Mini Pro tire (will be doing a writeup soon)

Very nice summary and interesting perspective. Of course I agree with you 

[brianle]

@houseofjob, thanks very much for all of that feedback that goes so very directly to what I was wrestling with!   I ordered the i5 last night, however --- so I might indeed find myself feeling just the same as you do after some experience, but at this point I'll soon see for myself how well I like the "minimal weight, compromises elsewhere" option.  Since it will be my first EUC, I won't have anything to compare it to, but I will post something (on a different thread) after I get a little experience with it.  FedEx says it's arriving on Thursday !

A side comment in praise of my interactions thus far with Jason of eWheels.com --- I ordered the EUC and their "Charge Doctor", trying my best to sleuth out the right connector for the latter unit.  Turns out that there IS no right connector for the i5, and Jason contacted me before the order went through to see what I wanted to do.  Excellent.   And free shipping often means slow shipping, but not this time, so ... cudos to them.

@Marty Backe, you mentioned that a person does get exercise riding an EUC, and from a couple of limited experiences riding the original version of the Segway I get that; I should distinguish between aerobic exercise vs. that which works the fine and large muscles in a more static way.   What the EUC will provide isn't to be spurned (!), just that I'm looking for some sustained aerobic effort when I get out, all things being equal.  
Of course they're not always at all equal, hence I hope that a lightweight EUC will serve well in a last-mile role ... TBD !   I'm definitely looking forward to trying one out now, after having spent a fair bit of time on research.

Not all theme-specific online communities are pleasant to interact with, but I'm really liking this one so far.

 

[Marty Backe]

11 minutes ago, brianle said:

@houseofjob, thanks very much for all of that feedback that goes so very directly to what I was wrestling with!   I ordered the i5 last night, however --- so I might indeed find myself feeling just the same as you do after some experience, but at this point I'll soon see for myself how well I like the "minimal weight, compromises elsewhere" option.  Since it will be my first EUC, I won't have anything to compare it to, but I will post something (on a different thread) after I get a little experience with it.  FedEx says it's arriving on Thursday !

A side comment in praise of my interactions thus far with Jason of eWheels.com --- I ordered the EUC and their "Charge Doctor", trying my best to sleuth out the right connector for the latter unit.  Turns out that there IS no right connector for the i5, and Jason contacted me before the order went through to see what I wanted to do.  Excellent.   And free shipping often means slow shipping, but not this time, so ... cudos to them.

@Marty Backe, you mentioned that a person does get exercise riding an EUC, and from a couple of limited experiences riding the original version of the Segway I get that; I should distinguish between aerobic exercise vs. that which works the fine and large muscles in a more static way.   What the EUC will provide isn't to be spurned (!), just that I'm looking for some sustained aerobic effort when I get out, all things being equal.  
Of course they're not always at all equal, hence I hope that a lightweight EUC will serve well in a last-mile role ... TBD !   I'm definitely looking forward to trying one out now, after having spent a fair bit of time on research.

Not all theme-specific online communities are pleasant to interact with, but I'm really liking this one so far.

 

Congrat's on the purchase. I know the excitement that is to follow. Good times ahead.

You should join some of our group rides where we have to climb and carry our wheels over obstacles, or if you're really unlucky, get stuck in the mountains and have to walk for miles. That'll get you breathing heavy   Somewhat of an inside joke, as I've had my (un)fair share of EUC adventures which resulted in a lot of walking  

[brianle]

Quote

 

Congrat's on the purchase. I know the excitement that is to follow. Good times ahead.

You should join some of our group rides where we have to climb and carry our wheels over obstacles, or if you're really unlucky, get stuck in the mountains and have to walk for miles. That'll get you breathing heavy   Somewhat of an inside joke, as I've had my (un)fair share of EUC adventures which resulted in a lot of walking

 

Thanks, @Marty Backe.  In fact, my major 'hobby' is long distance backpacking, so I'm not averse to some walking in the mountains.  With the i5, however, I don't anticipate long range nor mountainous adventures.

[houseofjob]

46 minutes ago, brianle said:

A side comment in praise of my interactions thus far with Jason of eWheels.com --- I ordered the EUC and their "Charge Doctor", trying my best to sleuth out the right connector for the latter unit.  Turns out that there IS no right connector for the i5, and Jason contacted me before the order went through to see what I wanted to do.  Excellent.   And free shipping often means slow shipping, but not this time, so ... cudos to them.

No, there is a Charge RX that will work with the i5.

I know this because I still have the old one I was using with my former i5 before I sold it (don't fault @Jason McNeil on that though, it's not noted anywhere, even on @hobby16's (the french maker) site).

Soooooo,.... the i5 sports a GX12-3 power connector, the same connector that is used by the infamous "hoverboard".

Although "hoverboards" are typically lower voltage (like 36V or 42V), the Charge RX, in it's most basic form, is just a simple current/volt meter, so Hobbyist's GX12-3 Charge RX will still work with the 67V i5 (see here on hobbyist's site, 2nd to last from the bottom, listed at 28€).

 

I ordered this on a whim at the same time I ordered my former i5 based on seeing the GX12-3 power connector (also, I knew that my GX16-3 Charge RX worked on my higher voltage 84V GT16v1, even though it's listed as just working for the lower 67V KingSong and Gotway, etc. wheels).

Edited November 14, 2017 by houseofjob

[brianle]

Quote

No, there is a Charge RX that will work with the i5.

I know this because I still have the old one I was using with my former i5 before I sold it (don't fault @Jason McNeil on that though, it's not noted anywhere, even on @hobby16's (the french maker) site).

Soooooo,.... the i5 sports a GX12-3 power connector, the same connector that is used by the infamous "hoverboard".

Although "hoverboards" are typically lower voltage (like 36V or 42V), the Charge RX, in it's most basic form, is just a simple current/volt meter, so Hobbyist's GX12-3 Charge RX will still work with the 67V i5 (see here on hobbyist's site, 2nd to last from the bottom, listed at 28€).

I ordered this on a whim at the same time I ordered my former i5 based on seeing the GX12-3 power connector (also, I knew that my GX16-3 Charge RX worked on my higher voltage 84V GT16v1, even though it's listed as just working for the lower 67V KingSong and Gotway, etc. wheels).

Thanks, @houseofjob!  In fact, the GX12-3 connector is what I ordered.  Re-looking at the email I got, he said "...IPS uses a different connector than the GX16-3, at the moment we don't have this as an option for the ChargeDoctor".   So that's kind of puzzling.  It's a little awkward, as you don't specify the connector by name, but by some sort of summary, in this case "V8 (3-pin)".

I told them to send it anyway as I'm hoping that I can get it to work with my electric bike as well --- which takes a 3-pin connector too.  Hopefully it will work for at least one of the devices!  I like the idea of charging to 80% when I don't really really need to start off with a maximal charge.

So maybe you can answer this, it wasn't clear from the illustration: is it possible to buy just a second output connector and swap one for another on the charge doctor --- so I can use the same unit for different devices?  The picture wasn't clear, but it almost looked like the output connector might have been hardwired in.

 

[houseofjob]

8 minutes ago, brianle said:

Thanks, @houseofjob!  In fact, the GX12-3 connector is what I ordered.  Re-looking at the email I got, he said "...IPS uses a different connector than the GX16-3, at the moment we don't have this as an option for the ChargeDoctor".   So that's kind of puzzling.  It's a little awkward, as you don't specify the connector by name, but by some sort of summary, in this case "V8 (3-pin)".

Ah, then Jason does have the correct one. (The V8 3-pin is in fact a GX12-3 connector). GX16-3 is larger, 16 indicating diameter (in mm I believe(?)).

 

8 minutes ago, brianle said:

I told them to send it anyway as I'm hoping that I can get it to work with my electric bike as well --- which takes a 3-pin connector too.  Hopefully it will work for at least one of the devices!  I like the idea of charging to 80% when I don't really really need to start off with a maximal charge.

Just make sure the diameter matches.

 

8 minutes ago, brianle said:

So maybe you can answer this, it wasn't clear from the illustration: is it possible to buy just a second output connector and swap one for another on the charge doctor --- so I can use the same unit for different devices?  The picture wasn't clear, but it almost looked like the output connector might have been hardwired in.

It's soldered in, so no.

This would be difficult to do, as different manufacturers use different pin configurations, usually utilizing only 2 pins, even though EUC charging connections are often 3 or 4 pin.