Veteran Patton 16" 126v 2220wh

[Pablocavern]

I suppose if the design of the Sherman S allows it to be nimble despite its weight and wheel size, the Patton should maintain those design advantages and be quite nimble. 

On the other hand, people who have a V12ht say it's a pretty stable wheel for being 16", which I now understand from previous explanations of rim and tire sizes (3.00-12 scooter tire). And the Patton should have the same stability as the v12ht.

It seems like a wheel meant more for off-road than city but it seems inescapable is that it will feel heavy on low speed sideways leaning right? 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Pablocavern

[UniVehje]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

No, it doesn't. 

The 16X has the 16 x 3.00 stock tire. Generally speaking, the equivalent scooter tire sizing is 2.75-12.

The Patton has a 3.00-12 stock tire. Sizing-wise, this tire is a bigger.

The 16 x 3.00 is a bicycle tire.

The 3.00-12 is a scooter tire.

The scooter has a much stiffer sidewall and tread.

I personally prefer the "right" scooter tire over a bicycle tire for electric wheels. 

Stock tire is different on almost all whees. But you can put a 16x3" stock tire from 16X on the Patton. Or 2.75-12. Or you can even put a 3.00-12 tire on the 16X if it fits in the wheel well (I think it should fit on the rim). Therefore these are not IMO different size classes. It's really a matter of semantics but the point is that the Patton cannot take any 18" tire or x.xx-14 tire and therefore cannot be called an 18" wheel. I really don't think we need a new size class for V12HT and Patton although they come with a bit fatter tire. I know the rim is a bit wider as well but as far as I know, you can still interchange the tires in the same class. The wheel doesn't change size class by changing from knobby to street tire. 

[Pablocavern]

Apart from the designations, what interests us most is the behavior. I suppose there is a well-studied reason for deciding to make 12" wheels with larger tires whose diameter is close to that of a conventional 18" (v12ht and Patton). They could have made the Patton with a 14" rim and didn't do it. 

There are quite a few people criticizing that it is not a real 18" wheel and that it is absurd that it is 16", but I don't think the Leaperkim engineers are fools and I think that in the reviews they will tell the advantages of its behavior. The v12ht seems to be liked by a lot of people for its balance between agility and stability and in part I guess it will be because of the rim and tire it has.

[Funky]

11 hours ago, Clem604 said:

It does I'm currently at 770km's on mine.

8 hours ago, Paul D said:

Almost 900 miles on mine. Still great. 

8 hours ago, KiwiMark said:

I'm just over 1,300km on my Sherman S. No maintenance or repairs done. No weird noises or vibrations, everything still seems as good as new. Based on how good my Sherman S is, I would have no hesitation in recommending the Patton for someone that is happy with the 2,200Wh battery and wants a tough & powerful wheel with a 12" rim size and too much weight.

Quick question: How hard have you ridden your S-S? Mostly on smooth roads/pavement? Or have you gone more than 50% times off-road? Where the suspensions is used quit more.

Those numbers are kinda low.. I would start talking after 5000km or so. Because the wheel itself is new and you just have started to ride it.  

5000km mark because it's bigger wheel - you ride more.. (More use than smaller wheels.)

Edited March 23, 2023 by Funky

[meepmeepmayer]

Guys, this is simply Veteran's first "16 inch" wheel, after their "18/20 inchers" (Sherman and Sherman Max, 14 inch rim) and "22 inch" (Abrams, 17 inch rim) wheels. They are just more honest about the tire size, which has always been nearly 18 inches for a 3 inch wide tire on a 12 inch rim ("16 inch wheel").

[Paul D]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

Quick question: How hard have you ridden your S-S? Mostly on smooth roads/pavement? Or have you gone more than 50% times off-road? Where the suspensions is used quit more.

Those numbers are kinda low.. I would start talking after 5000km or so. Because the wheel itself is new and you just have started to ride it.  

5000km mark because it's bigger wheel - you ride more.. (More use than smaller wheels.)

I ride roads for now because it’s winter still. I have gone to warmer climates to ride off road. So maybe 150 miles of off road. 

I agree with you that these aren’t tested yet and need more abusive miles. 

I fully expect to have to service/repair the suspension at some point. I would have to do that on a mtb bike as well. 

[Freeforester]

13 hours ago, techyiam said:

It sounded more to me like that he wasn't quite sure how well the FastAce suspension will turn out since he only had ridden 200 km's on the Sherman-S.

But he did say the Sherman-S suspension worked tremendously well.

Time-stamped. 

 

To my mind, he was either doubtful of, or hedging his bets on the quality of the Fastace suspension, from 1:43 and on he talks about the positive and negative aspects, the latter suggesting that if you wanted to ‘upgrade’ the suspension (presumably like many felt they were obliged to do with their Begode Master shock, it would not (then currently) be possible to do; fast forward to today, and the reasons to even consider to do this on the Sherman/Fastace enabled wheels have fallen away. I’ve not heard of anyone wishing to ‘upgrade’ the stock suspension on the ‘S’, whereas it was almost a requirement with the Master when it came out originally, and still presents issues for some I understand.

Is there a ‘better’ suspension enabled wheel than the Sherman ‘S’ currently available from stock? Subjective I know, but I also know there are already a small but growing army of delighted ‘S’ owners, and I’ve little doubt that this will grow over time as more and more people try it for themselves. 
 

This was my interpretation of what he said prior to your time stamp.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Freeforester

[Clem604]

3 hours ago, Funky said:

Quick question: How hard have you ridden your S-S? Mostly on smooth roads/pavement? Or have you gone more than 50% times off-road? Where the suspensions is used quit more.

Those numbers are kinda low.. I would start talking after 5000km or so. Because the wheel itself is new and you just have started to ride it.  

5000km mark because it's bigger wheel - you ride more.. (More use than smaller wheels.)

I'm mainly a street cruiser so I do probably 95% on road. The roads I ride aren't the best so the suspension it great for all the potholes, huge cracks, and uneven pavement. My goal is to hit 5000km's by summer time so we will see how it holds up but so far so good. I have a year warranty with EEVEES so if the suspension/wheel has issues I hope it happens within the warranty period.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Clem604

[UniVehje]

3 hours ago, Pablocavern said:

I suppose there is a well-studied reason for deciding to make 12" wheels with larger tires whose diameter is close to that of a conventional 18" (v12ht and Patton).

The difference between 16x3", 2.75-12 and 3.00-12 tires is not that big. Patton's stock tire is much closer to the smallest version of 16x3" tire than any 14" rim tire. None of the 18x3" class tires are 18" either, that's why they have been marketed with bigger numbers. You can fit V12HT or Patton with any 16x3" or 2.75-12 tires. What matters is that there is a 2" difference to the bigger class with the same tire version. This difference is muddied by marketing non-standard sizes. If you just go by the marketing size, you can assume the same size wheel to be either the same size as an 18" wheel or 4" smaller depending what nomenclature you use. V12 (16" spec) vs. Sherman (20" spec)  or Patton (18" spec) vs. S18 (also 18" spec), although in both cases the difference is the same 2" difference. That's how it gets confusing if we don't care about standard sizing. 

3 hours ago, Pablocavern said:

They could have made the Patton with a 14" rim and didn't do it.

They did and it's called Sherman-S. 

[CrabChampion]

5 hours ago, Freeforester said:

from 1:43 and on he talks about the positive and negative aspects, the latter suggesting that if you wanted to ‘upgrade’ the suspension (presumably like many felt they were obliged to do with their Begode Master shock, it would not (then currently) be possible to do; fast forward to today, and the reasons to even consider to do this on the Sherman/Fastace enabled wheels have fallen away. I’ve not heard of anyone wishing to ‘upgrade’ the stock suspension on the ‘S’, whereas it was almost a requirement with the Master when it came out originally, and still presents issues for some I understand.

For me, its less about upgrading the suspension itself and more about the ease of maintenance when the shock inevitably fails. If I expect to keep my wheel for the next 3-4 years a standardized shock design is much easier to replace than the proprietary fastace system on the sherman-s and patton. If any of the begode linkage design suspension fails well after the wheel has been discontinued, you can easily drop in a new shock and linkages. This is proven by all the aftermarket suspension upgrades that people have been doing to their begode wheels. You can also replace the coil on the S22 with a different weight coil or hydraulic shock. There have been a couple cases of the sherman-s shocks leaking. There isnt as easy of a solution to that issue as you have to get your shocks from leaperkim themselves. Long after the sherman-s is discontinued, I dont know where you are going to get a replacement

[Funky]

1 hour ago, Cobaltsaber said:

For me, its less about upgrading the suspension itself and more about the ease of maintenance when the shock inevitably fails. If I expect to keep my wheel for the next 3-4 years a standardized shock design is much easier to replace than the proprietary fastace system on the sherman-s and patton. If any of the begode linkage design suspension fails well after the wheel has been discontinued, you can easily drop in a new shock and linkages. This is proven by all the aftermarket suspension upgrades that people have been doing to their begode wheels. You can also replace the coil on the S22 with a different weight coil or hydraulic shock. There have been a couple cases of the sherman-s shocks leaking. There isnt as easy of a solution to that issue as you have to get your shocks from leaperkim themselves. Long after the sherman-s is discontinued, I dont know where you are going to get a replacement

Sorry, but you are barking at wrong tree friend. Here most change wheels like socks.  Rarely anyone here keeps their wheel more than 2 years. So they don't really think about future and how long the wheel will last..

I personally will only change my 18xl, when they release something better in same weight class. -+5kg for more powerful, or lighter for same performance. My hope is that by the time, when i need to change my wheel. The solid state batteries will have become a thing in our wheels. Then i will get 2x times better wheel at same weight. Doh i don't see that happening in next 5 years..

Edited March 23, 2023 by Funky

[techyiam]

16 minutes ago, Funky said:

Doh i don't see that happening in next 5 years..

... or ever.

Your 18 XL is basically your last mile device. You seemed to be happy with your choice. And by all accounts, the 18 XL is a good wheel. 

So why would you divert money that you can spend on your next gaming machine instead. 😀

[CrabChampion]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

Sorry, but you are barking at wrong tree friend. Here most change wheels like socks.  Rarely anyone here keeps their wheel more than 2 years. So they don't really think about future and how long the wheel will last..

I personally will only change my 18xl, when they release something better in same weight class. -+5kg for more powerful, or lighter for same performance. My hope is that by the time, when i need to change my wheel. The solid state batteries will have become a thing in our wheels. Then i will get 2x times better wheel at same weight. Doh i don't see that happening in next 5 years..

Yea, most of the community buys EUCs like smartphones 5-10 years ago. Upgrade every year because the next best thing is way better. Im hoping the specs on the large wheels remain mostly stagnant and only get refined in quality and small features. I just dont see the performance to weight ratio getting any better. If we want more performance, the wheels just have to get heavier than 110lbs which is where I put my foot down

The smaller EUCs are where alot can change I feel. There is way more variability with weight to performance for those smaller wheels. Just look at the patton weight compared to other 12" rim wheels. We can get a T4, or patton and everything inbetween

[KiwiMark]

11 hours ago, Funky said:

Quick question: How hard have you ridden your S-S? Mostly on smooth roads/pavement? Or have you gone more than 50% times off-road? Where the suspensions is used quit more.

Those numbers are kinda low.. I would start talking after 5000km or so. Because the wheel itself is new and you just have started to ride it.  

5000km mark because it's bigger wheel - you ride more.. (More use than smaller wheels.)

Ah, smooth pavement,  I often wish that we had that here. Unfortunately our roads and paths are pretty shit, no close to smooth. Even the roads in decent condition are getting speed bumps added to them, like 30+ new speed bumps will be added over the next year and there are already plenty of them around this city.

New - my Sherman S was great.

After 1,000km - my Sherman S was great.

After 3,000km - 

After 5,000km - 

After 10,000km - 

OK, there are some blanks there. The news might be good, but we won't know until we get there. Early indications are pretty good IMO, hopefully the suspension will last for years - or at least won't need money spent on it too frequently. How well it works after say 2 years is something that I can't tell you until a couple of years time.

[Funky]

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

... or ever.

Your 18 XL is basically your last mile device. You seemed to be happy with your choice. And by all accounts, the 18 XL is a good wheel. 

So why would you divert money that you can spend on your next gaming machine instead. 😀

Whos diverting anything? I have already put aside 4k$ for my next PC.  Planning to build it this year. Waiting to see the new video cards performances.. After release i will choose if i buy completely new one or go with older model. (Performance to price..) Right now the RX 7900 and RTX 40** series aren't worth it.

Yeah i love my 18xl, it does everything i want from it. Doh if i found a better performing wheel in same weight. I would definetly buy it someday. Heck if it had real 18x3" tire, that alone would make my sell 18xl and get that wheel. OFC after 3rd/4th batch..

Like i keep saying - something like RS.. But made better..

Edited March 24, 2023 by Funky

[drader]

Bicycle tire sizing has always been a dumb way to categorize, so I vote we move to motorcycle/scooter sizing, which accurately describes the rim: 12" or 14" in this case. The T4/Patton tire has an overall diameter of 18.15", which is almost identical to the MSX and 18XL, and steers much closer to those "18 inch" wheels than it does to a T2. The 12-3.0 tire is also much higher quality than a bicycle 16X3, and is quite a bit bigger in diameter. For my money adding pneumatic goodness absolutely transforms a wheel, while suspension is pretty gimmicky, at least if you are a size XL human. The T4, Patton and V12 are "special" in that they allow a tire as large as a 12 - 3.0. I'd love to try a 12 - 3.5 next.

[Freeforester]

13 hours ago, Cobaltsaber said:

For me, its less about upgrading the suspension itself and more about the ease of maintenance when the shock inevitably fails. If I expect to keep my wheel for the next 3-4 years a standardized shock design is much easier to replace than the proprietary fastace system on the sherman-s and patton. If any of the begode linkage design suspension fails well after the wheel has been discontinued, you can easily drop in a new shock and linkages. This is proven by all the aftermarket suspension upgrades that people have been doing to their begode wheels. You can also replace the coil on the S22 with a different weight coil or hydraulic shock. There have been a couple cases of the sherman-s shocks leaking. There isnt as easy of a solution to that issue as you have to get your shocks from leaperkim themselves. Long after the sherman-s is discontinued, I dont know where you are going to get a replacement

As you like, the two types of shock are quite different, but the (literally) drop-in design of the Fastace strut seems to me to be a less complicated part to replace; like yourself I’m intending keeping my suspension wheel of choice (the V. ‘S’ in my case) for  a good while, as I don’t personally see the benefit of uprating to 134v for my use case, or at any rate - as yet.    Given the timeline in the history of the ‘S’ and Patton, any Fastace strut that has failed in the meantime would I imagine be covered by the warranty, and has until now been the exception rather than the rule as far as I’m aware, an area where Begode suspension wheels history have been rather less stellar by comparison. 
 

Given the popularity of Leaperkim’s other wheels too,  and their broad availability of parts, I think it will be some time before the suspension system they’ve bet their business model and reputation for reliability on their latest and next wheel will be discontinued - again, an area where Begode may not be in pole position; my take on the Begode suspension system has been that plenty of riders have felt compelled to change their shocks and/or linkage because the stock item has been pi55 poor, but I do hope for the sake of unfortunate buyers that this is being addressed in the upcoming models. But again, to my mind, should the “worst” happen and a strut fail down the line, I don’t expect it will be too onerous or difficult to obtain a replacement for same, and again, given their confidence in the part to the extent that they are going with it in their next wheel, I don’t expect it to fail any time soon, one of the many variables which tipped my own choice away from a suspension Begode wheel, for the meantime. Lastly, being 60 years of age now, I suspect that I won’t be riding into my 90’s, but have little doubt which wheel will be regarded as a solid performer in stock guise in years to come, and won’t be holding my breath for the day that the Sherman ‘S’ is discontinued, but rest assured, should I ever get the feeling that they may do so, I’ll be sure to have a spare strut or two tucked away in the spare parts box, just in case.

[CrabChampion]

7 hours ago, Freeforester said:

Given the timeline in the history of the ‘S’ and Patton, any Fastace strut that has failed in the meantime would I imagine be covered by the warranty

8 hours ago, Freeforester said:

I don’t expect it will be too onerous or difficult to obtain a replacement for same, and again, given their confidence in the part to the extent that they are going with it in their next wheel, I don’t expect it to fail any time soon

For the sherman-s, the suspension is warrantied for 6 months while the rest of the wheel such as batteries, motor, controller, shell and parts are warrantied 2 years. Why would they warranty the suspension 1/4 less than the other components? Especially the suspension which is a moving part that usually requires more maintenance than the rest of the wheel? My issues lies here combined with the proprietary suspension. Its almost like they werent confident with the suspension system and knew there would be more premature failures in a shorter span of time

[Rollin-on-1]

Some Veteran Patton porn for your viewing pleasure.  Credit to Franco for posting to Telegram.

https://t.me/veteranUS/70921

It looks like Linnea posted it to FB here:

https://www.facebook.com/100008019013231/posts/3548948005382465/

Edited March 24, 2023 by Rollin-on-1
Added the link to the same video on FB

[meepmeepmayer]

This wheel with 3330Wh or more would be perfect!

[CrabChampion]

11 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

This wheel with 3330Wh or more would be perfect!

so.. the sherman-s?

[BKW]

19 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

This wheel with 3330Wh or more would be perfect!

Sarcasm? 🤔

I ask because a few people here think we are reaching an EUC apocalypse because we are getting larger wheels and "everyone wants bigger, faster and more range". I personally don't agree with that, but that's just my opinion.

However, if you're not being sarcastic, I agree with you. If this wheel had more battery it would literally be perfect for what I'm looking for (this ISN'T to say it's not perfect for someone else's needs/wants). I really like how they addressed the pedals with better spikes and the trolley handle. I feel like these were a lacking point on the sherman-s. The toe jump pad is an additional bit of awesomeness. I think LK's overall quality, including the durability, is of top-notch in the EUC world right now. I'm impressed with the Patton!

Edited March 24, 2023 by BKW

[Freeforester]

1 hour ago, Cobaltsaber said:

Why would they warranty the suspension 1/4 less than the other components?

As Lenin was wont to tell: “Trust us good, control is better”.     Swarovski and Leica offer long service guarantees on their optical products, but where any range finding electronics are fitted, these are similarly warranted for a much shorter duration - simply because they don’t make them in house.    Time will surely tell whether Leaperkim have backed the wrong horse, and doubled down on a grevious error with regard to the Patton, but I don’t buy that notion; Fastace aren’t exactly a Johnny-come-lately outfit, having been concerned with their speciality suspension units for a number of years.  If they were as poor as you suggest they may be, one would tend to think we would have learned more by now, albeit the six months warranty time has not yet expired for any of their units.
 

Personally, I have placed my faith in their abilities and their own rigorous testing prior to launch, and having watched the travails of Begode in respect of suspension wheels and their build quality more generally, which of course led to the formation of rival firm Leaperkim, for the reasons already outlined and well understood, I’ve gone with the engineers. One wonders how much testing was done with the EB mini pro, given it’s almost miraculous arrival in to the scene so quickly behind the news of the Patton, but that is another matter.

[Funky]

56 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

This wheel with 3330Wh or more would be perfect!

Do you want 16" V13 wheel? Whit that pack it easily would be 45kg.  At that weight it would make no sense. Why would people wanna buy 16", if they can get 18" or 20" wheel. 40kg and having 2220Wh already makes no sense.

I personally would be very happy, if it had 1000Wh battery. Making this euc perfect for mine needs.

[The Brahan Seer]

50 minutes ago, Freeforester said:

Fastace aren’t exactly a Johnny-come-lately outfit, having been concerned with their speciality suspension units for a number of years.

Could you clarify this? I get the impression they are a low budget outfit that outsources its products just going from the website? They themselves say..

ABOUT US

www.fastace.com is an online store. We are committed to providing our customers with A unique, superior and thoughtful online shopping experience. We have high quality manufacturers and suppliers; At the same time, we are constantly optimizing our purchasing and production processes to ensure that our products are of high quality. Please feel free to buy our products on the website.

Email：fastaceofficial@hotmail.com

Business contact: fastaceofficial@hotmail.com

Address:Shop 05 and 06, Building 1, No. 18, Longzhu Road, Huadu District, Guangzhou

contact number:0086-13922158380

 

I find it hard to think they are a big well established company when they use a hotmail email address.

But maybe the manufacturer of the suspension units are but who are they?

 

But maybe I am looking at the wrong site..

https://www.fastace.com