Veteran Patton 16" 126v 2220wh

[Rollin-on-1]

Just now, techyiam said:

Suspension and motor are most likely safe.

But the 126 V system, battery packs and BMS's is a first for Leaper Kim.

Agreed, I'm not too worried about the packs themselves, but the 126v mobo and BMS are the higher risk areas that I'll be watching closely over the next month or so.  

[Rollin-on-1]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

I am in agreement with Electric Dreams youtube review on this wheel's performance. It's solidly built. Quiet and smooth motor like my Master. Nimble and torquey like my T4. T4 feels like a toy in comparison. You cannot feel the weight when riding. It's effortless to accelerate and brake. Perfectly balanced. Suspension is buttery smooth as expected, just like my Sherman-S so this will be amazing for urban street riding and commuting.

Picking it up by the two handles, weight wasn't too much of an issue, as opposed to picking up say the lighter V12 by the handle, the V12 just subjectively felt heavier.

No real complaints, other than the front handle could be higher up, and servicing the wheel down the road (all those screws). My only complaint is I'd probably replace the wingnut on the foot jump pad with something like a locking lever knob like you'll find on manfrotto tripods. The trolley handle is robust and I had no issues walking the wheel.

It's quite gorgeous in person as opposed to in pictures. You will not need to spend more money on gimmicky and ugly third-party 3d printed bumpers and protection.

I think many will be pleased by its looks and performance. I am in agreement possibly 2023 wheel of the year, so far.

Thanks for the great write up!  Sounds fantastic!  Were you able to get it up to speed where you were demoing it?  If so, how fast and what was the stability like at speed?  What about braking - did you find that it wanted to brake wobble?  

[stephen]

 

 

[techyiam]

5 hours ago, Mango said:

It's solidly built. Quiet and smooth motor like my Master. Nimble and torquey like my T4. T4 feels like a toy in comparison. You cannot feel the weight when riding. It's effortless to accelerate and brake. Perfectly balanced. Suspension is buttery smooth as expected, just like my Sherman-S so this will be amazing for urban street riding and commuting.

If range is taken out of the equation, which wheel would be your pick for street riding and commuting within city confines: Sherman-S or Patton? What compelling  features that are on the Sherman-S that you can't get on the Patton?

[Mango]

7 hours ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

Thanks for the great write up!  Sounds fantastic!  Were you able to get it up to speed where you were demoing it?  If so, how fast and what was the stability like at speed?  What about braking - did you find that it wanted to brake wobble?  

I didn't get any wobbles when I did a power brake from 35km/hr. No opportunity to test top speed as I would only attempt after getting familiar with the wheel and proper gear. Wobbles mostly occur because of inexperience, fatigue or some alignment issue with the the tire.

4 hours ago, techyiam said:

If range is taken out of the equation, which wheel would be your pick for street riding and commuting within city confines: Sherman-S or Patton? What compelling  features that are on the Sherman-S that you can't get on the Patton?

Patton for sure. Sherman-S takes more effort to accelerate and the trolley handle is cumbersome. Other than battery capacity, there is no compelling reason to get S over Patton.

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

Patton for sure. Sherman-S takes more effort to accelerate and the trolley handle is cumbersome. Other than battery capacity, there is no compelling reason to get S over Patton.

That is high praise for the Patton, since the Sherman-S is a highly regarded wheel with a 20" wheel, not 16". Yet you would choose the Patton.

Thanks. I will have to test one out when they are out. If 16" wheels can be this good, I may not have to buy a 20"+ suspension wheel.

That would be exciting if big tires and suspension can help transform 16" wheels into performance wheels that can compete against the bigger wheels.

The ease of riding is a boon to many, especially for the smaller riders, or the less advanced riders.

Edited April 3, 2023 by techyiam

[stephen]

here's a little test ride I did on the Patton , what a lovely ride

 

 

 

[Rollin-on-1]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

Wobbles mostly occur because of inexperience, fatigue or some alignment issue with the the tire.

I find that foot placement and pad placement can also cause braking wobbles.  Since the pads seem to be indexed to the edges of the shell and the jump pads seem like they could limit a staggered stance, I was curious if the default positioning caused any problems.  Good to know that it doesn't seem to be too naturally prone to wobbles with the pads in their positions.

[mrelwood]

 

7 hours ago, techyiam said:

That would be exciting if big tires and suspension can help transform 16" wheels into performance wheels that can compete against the bigger wheels.

Why though? No matter how well made and stable a 16” wheel is, it’s still just a 16 incher. 18/20” wheels will always be inherently more stable at speed. Why do we need 16” wheels that go 70km/h when 18/20” ones are better for that purpose anyway?

 How about making a 18/20” wheel instead that would challenge 16” wheels in weight, practicality and speed? Patton does the exact opposite.

 

7 hours ago, stephen said:

here's a little test ride I did on the Patton , what a lovely ride

The riding posture looks a good bit wider than I thought it would. How would you compare the feeling of width to other wheels?

[Rollin-on-1]

20 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

How about making a 18/20” wheel instead that would challenge 16” wheels in weight, practicality and speed? Patton does the exact opposite.

No matter how light and practical an 18/20" wheel is, it will never be as nimble and agile as a 16" wheel.  

I am happy to see a 16" option in a performance category already saturated in 18/20" wheels. It is nice to have variety.  But I do agree that this isn't the direction that all 16" wheels should go. 

[mrelwood]

8 minutes ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

No matter how light and practical an 18/20" wheel is, it will never be as nimble and agile as a 16" wheel.

Exactly! We need both. But I still don’t see those as good traits at the speeds the Patton is capable of. On the other hand, the stability of the V11 for example is just fine all the way down to 0. So I don’t see the 18/20” downsides to be as severe as the downsides of a 16” 70km/h wheel.

8 minutes ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

I am happy to see a 16" option in a performance category already saturated in 18/20" wheels. It is nice to have variety.  But I do agree that this isn't the direction that all 16" wheels should go. 

Now we only need an 18/20” wheel for the other end of the spectrum: light, compact, and not that fast. That’s the variety we don’t currently have in modern wheels, with a rather great margin.

[Funky]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

 How about making a 18/20” wheel instead that would challenge 16” wheels in weight, practicality and speed? Patton does the exact opposite.

Well said.

All those YouTube vides and ride videos are pointless. Ofc wheels like Fatton will perform amazingly. It has the power behind it - no surprise there. Also while riding the weight is meaningless. The problems start when you're not riding and need to man handle it.

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

Now we only need an 18/20” wheel for the other end of the spectrum: light, compact, and not that fast. That’s the variety we don’t currently have in modern wheels, with a rather great margin.

I'm waiting for that wheel also..

If wheels like S18, 18XL, V11, RS, MSP. weight is under 30kg. A very solidly built updated 18", whit same amount "Wh" should not be more than 35kg heavy. Better would be if it's around ~30kg.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Funky

[Rollin-on-1]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

But I still don’t see those as good traits at the speeds the Patton is capable of.

My truck isn't stable at the speeds it is capable of either, but it is quite safe and stable at the speeds I drive it.  Just because Patton can do 50+mph doesn't mean that many will be doing it.  But it is nice to have that capability in reserve when you need to accellerate to get out of a dicey situation.  The performance of Patton will provide a very safe margin for overhead at the speeds most people will be riding them.  Unlike the other 16" wheels that have much less safety margin at the speeds they are ridden.

People aren't buying 16" wheels because they are more stable than 18/20" wheels.  There is something different driving that decision.  The trouble is people continually try to compare the two when there really is no comparison 😁😁😁

 

 

[bpong]

9 minutes ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

People aren't buying 16" wheels because they are more stable than 18/20" wheels.  There is something different driving that decision.  The trouble is people continually try to compare the two when there really is no comparison 😁😁😁

 

 

if you are into or used to be into performance motorcycles,  look at the never ending comparison and debate between 600cc and 1000cc sportbikes.  the performance difference between these 2 classes is not all that great,  with the 600 class being lighter and just as fast.

[techyiam]

3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

How about making a 18/20” wheel instead that would challenge 16” wheels in weight, practicality and speed? Patton does the exact opposite.

No worries. If the Patton turns out to be a flop, Leaper Kim won't be making many more of those.

The market will speak for itself.

Edited April 3, 2023 by techyiam

[M1thr4ndr]

2 minutes ago, techyiam said:

No worries. If the Patton turns out to be a flop, Leaper Kim won't be making many more of those.

The market will speak for itself.

Buying for my first wheel. I might be like Kitty, struggling with its weight for a few weeks

[bpong]

on the topic of 'flop',  what will the Patton have to fail at to be a 'flop' ?

catch on fire like the kingsong S20 ?  riders still buy kingsong ...

be grossly over weight ?  damn,  all the performance wheels are not twiggy by any means, neither will the Patton or any other future wheel... i wait for the day when a manufacturer releases an euc with lightweight magnesium alloy motor, chassis and suspension bits...

have a tire size that is wrong for its performance ambitions ?  just look at the crazy posts about tire sizing,  wrong or right debate...

use the wrong lithium batteries,  badly designed BMS,  flakey firmware, etc,...

lets see what happens after its may release... this Patton forum (haters and lovers, aside from the skeptics...) will grow exponentially before its consumer release.

[Rollin-on-1]

Bradley having some good things to say about the Patton.

https://t.me/s_EUC/53188

[stephen]

11 hours ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

I find that foot placement and pad placement can also cause braking wobbles.  Since the pads seem to be indexed to the edges of the shell and the jump pads seem like they could limit a staggered stance, I was curious if the default positioning caused any problems.  Good to know that it doesn't seem to be too naturally prone to wobbles with the pads in their positions.

you also have to know how to handle wobbles it comes naturally after a while

[stephen]

6 hours ago, mrelwood said:

 

Why though? No matter how well made and stable a 16” wheel is, it’s still just a 16 incher. 18/20” wheels will always be inherently more stable at speed. Why do we need 16” wheels that go 70km/h when 18/20” ones are better for that purpose anyway?

 How about making a 18/20” wheel instead that would challenge 16” wheels in weight, practicality and speed? Patton does the exact opposite.

 

The riding posture looks a good bit wider than I thought it would. How would you compare the feeling of width to other wheels?

so natural,, honestly everyone who mounted it loved it , my og Sherman feels wider tbh , everything about the wheel is spot on I couldn't find a fault but I probably will with range as I'm spoilt with my 90 mile Sherman

[stephen]

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

No worries. If the Patton turns out to be a flop, Leaper Kim won't be making many more of those.

The market will speak for itself.

 

definitely won't be a flop I think 3 were sold after ridden for 5 minutes it's most likely going to be the wheel to best this year ,, you can even feel the weight it's so compact I think the weight keeps you planted better and you can still handle it 

[mrelwood]

3 hours ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

My truck isn't stable at the speeds it is capable of either, but it is quite safe and stable at the speeds I drive it.

I never intended to turn this into yet another speed debate. People ride as fast as they do. I was only comparing the traits of a 16” and a 18/20” wheel, and expressing my opinion on which kind of a product would’ve made more sense right now.

If your truck would’ve been designed for a 30% less top speed, there probably wouldn’t be much difference in handling, weight or other parameters. On EUCs though, every additional km/h and watt of power costs dearly in weight. Not sure how many are happy to carry around 25% of extra weight so that they would have the capability “to get out of a hairy situation”. 

 

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

No worries. If the Patton turns out to be a flop, Leaper Kim won't be making many more of those.

The market will speak for itself.

I don’t think it will be a flop. Just like the V13 wasn’t a flop, although it would’ve sold much much more as a 18/20” wheel.

I don’t have an issue with LeaperKim making the Patton. I just think they could’ve done much better.

My point was that we already have several ~40kg wheels that are great in getting out of them hairy situations. Making one that is just the same as others, except with less stability at those hairy speeds just doesn’t make nearly as much sense to me as a product that would serve a part of the markets that haven’t been touched in three years.

 

12 minutes ago, stephen said:

you can even feel the weight it's so compact

You probably meant to type that you can’t even feel the weight. I’m absolutely certain that I’d feel every kg of it’s weight the second I’d try to lift it to the trunk of my car. Until my back snaps and I collapse to the ground with it. That’s the hairy situation the extra weight won’t get me out of.

[techyiam]

4 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I don’t think it will be a flop. Just like the V13 wasn’t a flop, although it would’ve sold much much more as a 18/20” wheel.

I don’t have an issue with LeaperKim making the Patton. I just think they could’ve done much better.

OK.

What would you have done instead?

Remember, the Sherman-S is already out.

They wanted another wheel based on the Sherman-S in their product line.

Also, how many Master X have been sold? That is just a Master Pro with less battery and thus less weight too.

[bpong]

41 minutes ago, stephen said:

 

definitely won't be a flop I think 3 were sold after ridden for 5 minutes it's most likely going to be the wheel to best this year ,, you can even feel the weight it's so compact I think the weight keeps you planted better and you can still handle it 

just to be devils advocate stephan,  dont you think its still a gamble to purchase the 1st batch ?

[Funky]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

OK.

What would you have done instead?

Remember, the Sherman-S is already out.

They wanted another wheel based on the Sherman-S in their product line.

Also, how many Master X have been sold? That is just a Master Pro with less battery and thus less weight too.

Easy, just copy any smaller lightweight wheel and add S-S suspension... > ???? > Profit.

Closest performance like would be KS16X, V11.. Just added S-S suspension. (Doh then people would cry to small battery.. Too weak.. Not enough speed.. So on. Response to them - STFU You already got your heavy wheels, go buy them.) 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Funky