Veteran Patton 16" 126v 2220wh

[Hellkitten]

11 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Plus the V13 has better brakes according to Eevees. 

Better than the Patton? While I enjoyed my time on the v13 I found it’s braking lacking for congested st riding. 🤔

Edited April 10, 2023 by Hellkitten

[techyiam]

41 minutes ago, Hellkitten said:

Better than the Patton? While I enjoyed my time on the v13 I found it’s braking lacking for congested st riding. 🤔

Apparently so. Not sure about congested street riding, though. Time-stamped. 

(As a side note, I can brake better on my Abrams than on my V12. But there was a steep learning curve for me to go from my V12 to the 22" Abrams. The steeper parts of the learning curve have to with many little things. For example, going down a really steep slope to a Stop Sign, but there is quite a bumpy section just before the Stop Sign. The Abrams doesn't have suspension, so it is more difficult to use the brake pads. On my T3, or V12, I don't need brake pads to stop. So it is more straightforward.)

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by techyiam

[jmsjms]

If the 62 lbs suspension is for 175-240 lbs riders, would it feel too stiff for me at 140-150 lbs?

[bpong]

4 hours ago, techyiam said:

If you can already do this on a T2 in Toronto traffic unscathed, i would venture a guess that you will start riding your next wheel like a motorcycle. You may also want to consider the V13. I find it too nerve wracking to ride on the side of the road at higher speeds. Plus the V13 has better brakes according to Eevees. 

i used to ride my old 10speed in downtown traffic in montreal during my teen years... now that was risky business.  i regularly ride my ebike on pedal assist in downtown and in the boroughs - the majority of streets do not have bike lanes.  i found while euc riding in traffic that does not have bike lanes, i must slow down and let traffic slowly pass me so i have time enough to read the road ahead of me.  the T2 is not a suspended wheel, and i dont use pads,  so i have to be abit cautious.  as for getting any big euc (and the V13 is big for my 5ft 3.5in height)  im pretty sure it will take awhile and quite a few minor spills before i get accustomed to its power and size.  thats why im leaning towards the Patton.  its abit bigger wheel than my old T2, but not big like an EX30 or V13.  its still twice the weight of the T2,  but im pretty sure i can adapt quicker to a Patton or similarly sized machine compared to the massive V13 or similar EX30... dimensionally, they are BIG eucs to me.  besides, im more of a commuter euc rider with a few long rides to malls in the boroughs every now and then... i dont do those "hey who wants to ride 40 kms today eh ?!" types - if i want to go a long distance, i just jump into my old 99' 5spd manual 4runner and grab a few friends for the ride.  thats funny you mention braking on an euc cause i think eucs dont brake;  they just decelerate moderately.

take care riding this season techyiam !

[Freeforester]

6 hours ago, techyiam said:

Plus the V13 has better brakes according to Eevees. 

Surely the ‘brake’ force (supplied by oneself, the rider) is ultimately the same on any wheel, it’s just a matter of adjusting one’s technique in order to get the wheel to stop? I may be misunderstanding the function of the wheel,  but it seems to me that a ‘torquier’ wheel (presumably with wider magnets than a ‘higher speed’ wheel) should also be potentially better at decelerating because of those wider magnets applying proportionally greater force against the momentum sought to be negated?

In the video, Bradley says (at the time stamp) that the Patton is “just as confident” at braking as both the EX30 and the V13 - do you mean because it is proportionally smaller than both these bigger wheels then it is proportionally less good at braking? Just trying to reconcile what you say about the V13’s brakes (I know, they aren’t brakes) being better than the Patton, when a) the braking mass in either case is the same (ie that of the rider, differing techniques applied notwithstanding),  and b) Bradley’s statement which you kindly timestamped, but which seems to contradict your conclusion?

[techyiam]

 

 

2 hours ago, bpong said:

i used to ride my old 10speed in downtown traffic in montreal during my teen years... now that was risky business.  i regularly ride my ebike on pedal assist in downtown and in the boroughs - the majority of streets do not have bike lanes.  i found while euc riding in traffic that does not have bike lanes, i must slow down and let traffic slowly pass me so i have time enough to read the road ahead of me.  the T2 is not a suspended wheel, and i dont use pads,  so i have to be abit cautious. 

I don't know how you do it. But then you have been riding for a while. Now that you have explained your situation, I predict once you get a taste of the more capable wheels, learn to use spike pedals and pads, I can't see how you will continue to ride like how you have been riding. You will find a world of difference in capabilities. I have a T3, and I find it inadequate to ride in traffic. My V12 is so many times better in traffic. The Abrams is even better.

2 hours ago, bpong said:

as for getting any big euc (and the V13 is big for my 5ft 3.5in height)  im pretty sure it will take awhile and quite a few minor spills before i get accustomed to its power and size.  thats why im leaning towards the Patton.  its abit bigger wheel than my old T2, but not big like an EX30 or V13.  its still twice the weight of the T2,  but im pretty sure i can adapt quicker to a Patton or similarly sized machine compared to the massive V13 or similar EX30... dimensionally, they are BIG eucs to me. 

The Patton is basically 90 lbs. It will be a huge jump from your T2. I suspect something like the S19 would be easier to adapt to. But, since you have been riding for a while, I suspect you will be able learn to ride the Patton.

With regards to the V13, it is quite narrow. Even though the V13 is about 118 lbs and the Abrams is about 97 lbs, the V13 feels easier to manage. And the Sherman-S is easier still. If you haven't already done so, you should perhaps see the wheels in person. You may be surprised. 

3 hours ago, bpong said:

besides, im more of a commuter euc rider with a few long rides to malls in the boroughs every now and then... i dont do those "hey who wants to ride 40 kms today eh ?!" types - if i want to go a long distance, i just jump into my old 99' 5spd manual 4runner and grab a few friends for the ride.  thats funny you mention braking on an euc cause i think eucs dont brake;  they just decelerate moderately.

For those longer rides to the malls, you are going to like the bigger wheels once you have acclimated to them.

Once you have learnt to brake on the bigger wheels, you may think the brakes on your e-bike is inadequate, unless you ride a high-end e-bike.

If you think braking on electric wheels is merely a suggestion, you are brave to commute through downtown Toronto traffic on your wheel.

3 hours ago, bpong said:

take care riding this season techyiam !

You too.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Freeforester said:

Surely the ‘brake’ force (supplied by oneself, the rider) is ultimately the same on any wheel, it’s just a matter of adjusting one’s technique in order to get the wheel to stop? I may be misunderstanding the function of the wheel,  but it seems to me that a ‘torquier’ wheel (presumably with wider magnets than a ‘higher speed’ wheel) should also be potentially better at decelerating because of those wider magnets applying proportionally greater force against the momentum sought to be negated?

In the video, Bradley says (at the time stamp) that the Patton is “just as confident” at braking as both the EX30 and the V13 - do you mean because it is proportionally smaller than both these bigger wheels then it is proportionally less good at braking? Just trying to reconcile what you say about the V13’s brakes (I know, they aren’t brakes) being better than the Patton, when a) the braking mass in either case is the same (ie that of the rider, differing techniques applied notwithstanding),  and b) Bradley’s statement which you kindly timestamped, but which seems to contradict your conclusion?

I time-stamped the video to where the braking distances were tabulated. It so happened that Lukas was comfortable on the V13 to yank on the front grab handle during breaking, I believe. 

[stephen]

21 minutes ago, techyiam said:

The Patton is basically 90 lbs. It will be a huge jump from your T2. I suspect something like the S19 would be easier to adapt to. But, since you have been riding for a while, I suspect you will be able learn to ride the Patton

don't think anyone will have to adjust to ride a patton everyone in our group from beginners to pro just rode it, it's so well balanced 

[techyiam]

13 minutes ago, stephen said:

don't think anyone will have to adjust to ride a patton everyone in our group from beginners to pro just rode it, it's so well balanced 

That is Interesting, even from a T2? If that is generally applicable, that is fantastic. 

It took me a while to move from my T3 to my V12. The T3 weighs about 50 lbs with no gyro effects, and the V12 weighs about 65 lbs and has gyro effects.

The free-mounting got to be more difficult, you would think. 

[stephen]

2 minutes ago, techyiam said:

That is Interesting, even from a T2? If that is generally applicable, that is fantastic. 

It took me a while to move from my T3 to my V12. The T3 weighs about 50 lbs with no gyro effects, and the V12 weighs about 65 lbs and has gyro effects.

The free-mounting got to be more difficult, you would think. 

honestly you done even think about mounting I've had other wheels that mounting seemed weird the patton is easy really easy

[mrelwood]

I’m sure the Patton is balanced, easy, astonishing and all… But if a rider has zero experience with 3” wide tires or 25+kg wheels, it’s no question at all, there will be absolutely be a notable adjustment period. 3” tires turn and accelerate so differently, that no matter how natural it feels to experienced riders, it won’t be that for large wheel beginners.

[M1thr4ndr]

29 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I’m sure the Patton is balanced, easy, astonishing and all… But if a rider has zero experience with 3” wide tires or 25+kg wheels, it’s no question at all, there will be absolutely be a notable adjustment period. 3” tires turn and accelerate so differently, that no matter how natural it feels to experienced riders, it won’t be that for large wheel beginners.

I volunteer as tribute

[stephen]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

I’m sure the Patton is balanced, easy, astonishing and all… But if a rider has zero experience with 3” wide tires or 25+kg wheels, it’s no question at all, there will be absolutely be a notable adjustment period. 3” tires turn and accelerate so differently, that no matter how natural it feels to experienced riders, it won’t be that for large wheel beginners.

I disagree I've seen people mount it who only had one small wheel and mounted it perfectly with no trouble, end of the day he's had a few wheels and v12 so it be perfect

[LeGiroquoi]

20 hours ago, bpong said:

 so im riding in the right most side of the traffic lane like a cyclist with no bike lane.  when i see the bike lane clear, i will redirect back to the bike lane when possible.  

Hey.

I totally get your point. Me too have sometimes to get into the streets, when there's no cyclist paths.

 And many many of the riders do pefer to ride in the streets. But not me. 

For me the argument to follow traffic speed will only translate for more and more speed and thus competition with motorcycle. This is not micromobility anymore.

Happy riding season !!

 

 

[Taras]

sorry, I've lost youtube subtitles..
and photo-verstion w/ some extra:
https://ecodrift-ru.translate.goog/2023/04/10/veteran-patton-razbiraem/?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ru&_x_tr_pto=wapp

[stephen]

so could you put the patton wheel on the Sherman-S and have a 3600wh 16" wheel😊

[bpong]

On 4/10/2023 at 10:15 AM, LeGiroquoi said:

Hey.

I totally get your point. Me too have sometimes to get into the streets, when there's no cyclist paths.

 And many many of the riders do pefer to ride in the streets. But not me. 

For me the argument to follow traffic speed will only translate for more and more speed and thus competition with motorcycle. This is not micromobility anymore.

Happy riding season !!

 

 

hmmmm, ..... is see in your list of eucs, you have some that can easily keep up with normal (40-50kph) city traffic speeds.  im sure you must unknowingly while riding with traffic, wander into that speed range occasionally...sometimes it cannot be controlled cause you are concentrating on riding and not minding your current speed...!!!

[Taras]

On 4/11/2023 at 12:23 PM, Kingsong Russia said:

sorry, I've lost youtube subtitles..

fixed

[DjPanJan]

What about this motor asembly porblems? Is this dangerous?

 

[bpong]

djpanjan,

what the hell ???

image 1 shows what i think to be cracked magnets ?  image 2 shows some badly wound copper coils ?

i have hand wound copper induction coils for amateur radio builds, and i have to comment that those coils in image2 are wound very badly.  almost like the assembler didnt care at all about the quality of their workmanship.  and to top it off,  the 1 loose copper loop is partially ground down by some constant contact with some part of the euc.

if that is your wheel, you should have the service department do something about those loose wires....or you can simply forcefully push the loose copper loops away from the surface that is close to them... 

[Rawnei]

3 minutes ago, bpong said:

djpanjan,

what the hell ???

image 1 shows what i think to be cracked magnets ?  image 2 shows some badly wound copper coils ?

i have hand wound copper induction coils for amateur radio builds, and i have to comment that those coils in image2 are wound very badly.  almost like the assembler didnt care at all about the quality of their workmanship.  and to top it off,  the 1 loose copper loop is partially ground down by some constant contact with some part of the euc.

if that is your wheel, you should have the service department do something about those loose wires....or you can simply forcefully push the loose copper loops away from the surface that is close to them... 

It's from the ecodrift article few posts up.

[jimjam.nyc]

28 minutes ago, bpong said:

djpanjan,

what the hell ???

image 1 shows what i think to be cracked magnets ?  image 2 shows some badly wound copper coils ?

i have hand wound copper induction coils for amateur radio builds, and i have to comment that those coils in image2 are wound very badly.  almost like the assembler didnt care at all about the quality of their workmanship.  and to top it off,  the 1 loose copper loop is partially ground down by some constant contact with some part of the euc.

if that is your wheel, you should have the service department do something about those loose wires....or you can simply forcefully push the loose copper loops away from the surface that is close to them... 

It most certainly doesn't match up with all of the superior build quality claims that are being made about veteran. I am also seeing that some Sherman S's have bolts to the motor breaking off, etc. I really hope they fix this stuff before production of Patton actually go out since I have one on pre-order and I don't intend to switch or cancel it.  I am not too confident. I guess time will tell. I am still excited to get this wheel. 

I hope @eevees does their usual teardown vids of Patton so we can see if this stuff is consistent. 

 

[Rollin-on-1]

3 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

most certainly doesn't match up with all of the superior build quality claims that are being made about veteran

I'm not sure Leaperkim is building their own motors.  Most EUC manufacturers don't.  It is concerning to see the condition inside the motors though.

3 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

 

I hope @eevees does their usual teardown vids of Patton so we can see if this stuff is consistent. 

 

I am eagerly awaiting their tear down video as well.  I hope they open the motor and do a good inspection of the motor bolts, bearling seals, phase wire sealant, windings, and sensors.

There were a few QC issues raised in the EcoDrift tear down, but aside from the condition of the motor, most seemed fairly minor.  Fingers crossed!

[jimjam.nyc]

1 hour ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

I'm not sure Leaperkim is building their own motors.  Most EUC manufacturers don't.  It is concerning to see the condition inside the motors though.

I am eagerly awaiting their tear down video as well.  I hope they open the motor and do a good inspection of the motor bolts, bearling seals, phase wire sealant, windings, and sensors.

There were a few QC issues raised in the EcoDrift tear down, but aside from the condition of the motor, most seemed fairly minor.  Fingers crossed!

Good Point about the motors being built elsewhere. In the end Leaper Kim is responsible for what leaves their factories. So hopefully they catch the inconsistencies and correct them. 

I do agree these are all pretty minor, but its worth it to nit pick when it comes to EUCs because 1 failure point and it could mean a world of pain. 

 

[dredwheel]

8 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

Good Point about the motors being built elsewhere. In the end Leaper Kim is responsible for what leaves their factories. So hopefully they catch the inconsistencies and correct them. 

I do agree these are all pretty minor, but its worth it to nit pick when it comes to EUCs because 1 failure point and it could mean a world of pain. 

 

pre-ordered the patton too. i saw on ewheel's site that the motor is one of the QC points they're investigating before shipping them out. hopefully they'll open them up and check for shit like this.