Veteran Patton 16" 126v 2220wh

[Rollin-on-1]

27 minutes ago, techyiam said:

The size of the QR-Code images was big enough so everyone who was watching the video would have spotted them.

The 3rd QR code was tricky because it was low on the screen. If the video was paused, the video progress bar obscured the code and it wouldn't scan. I had to rewind and use a cell phone to take a pic, then use another phone to scan the QR code. It took several tries before I got it to work.  

 

27 minutes ago, techyiam said:

wouldn't be surprised if there were a bunch of people missing out by fraction of a second.

I expect you are correct.  I had caught up to the live video and got the final QR code entered pretty quickly.  I actually thought I had a chance at it.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Rollin-on-1

[bpong]

3 minutes ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

"Smart" BMS allows you to see the cell group voltages.  You can tell by looking whether your pack is well balanced and whether or not you have any cells that are beginning to fail. 

The KS S20 fire was due to a BMS firmware bug.  A similar fire on an S22 is unlikely now that rhe bug has been fixed.

It would have been great if Patton had a smart BMS, but since there have only been a few wheels with a smart BMS, I wouldn't hinge my decision on whether it has a smart BMS or not.  Leaperkim has a good tract record so I'm not too concerned.  Definatly a nice to have though.

i used to fly rc helis and we balanced our packs religiously to extract as much performance out of the batteries as possible.  the balancing was done manually with a balance board and the batteries balance cable.  its too bad the designers of the battery packs couldn't incorporate some kind of output port which would output the packs battery cell info and a special reader would give the owner easy access to the same data.  i guess the eucs lcd display would and could display the same info,  but i dont know if any rider has confirmed that their lcd readout of their ride provides the same output...

rollin-on-1 thanx for the clarification...

[Freeforester]

06:10 and on: gonna need a bigger QR code to cover all that, Lucas 🤣

[Rawnei]

5 hours ago, bpong said:

just finished watching the latest eevees review vid on the Patton.  the only question i really want to ask is about the comment they made on the BMS on the Patton.

they said that the Pattons BMS is not a 'smart' BMS which is what is the direction that inmotion and kingsong are taking.  does not having the 'smart' version of a BMS make the Patton's BMS system less reliable or less informative ?  i question the advantage of a 'smart' BMS, since i saw this vid posted by Hsiang of a kingsong wheel engulfed in flames and basically behaving like an amazing fireball..., did that euc that was on fire have a 'smart' BMS ???  on a lighter note,  would a 'smart' BMS make ownership of the Patton more reliable and charging the battery pack more safer ?  please excuse my emphasis on this 'smart' BMS stuff but my impression of most eucs is that there is a battery charging circuit,  but i didnt think that these charging circuits could be that sophisticated...nor do i know enuf on the 'smart' BMS to decide whether or not it is necessary in my next purchase of an euc...

Smart BMS would give us much needed insight into the health of the cells so that we can sleep better at night knowing they are balanced within a certain tolerance and not worry about imbalance problem leading to fire, think of it as more advanced software BMS where you can see a bunch of details about your batteries over a bluetooth connection. So in short it makes the wheels safer because it gives us the riders more insight into how the batteries are doing.

Also depending on what the manufacturer chooses to expose to the end user you could potentially allow the user to tweak some values related to balancing for more advanced customization for those inclined.

IMO all manufacturers should strive Smart BMS in all the wheels but we're not quite there yet.

[Kekafuch]

12 hours ago, Clem604 said:

Did anyone on here win the Patton? I certainty did not.

I was active and participating right at the 6:30pm premier in the eevees Patton giveaway. Goods odds of potentially winning $4000 and 4x $100 gift cards. I was wondering if someone claiming the $100 early could also still claim the Patton? 
 

Anyways, I had to watch the video 2.75 times with a friend to find all 4. 

 

[Milordas]

When i saw whats inside controller box, im just terrified how they could make such piece of shit. Now imagine you need to change tire or smth else and every time you'll need to silicone the whole deck? No, thank you, but its not for me

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, Milordas said:

When i saw whats inside controller box, im just terrified how they could make such piece of shit. Now imagine you need to change tire or smth else and every time you'll need to silicone the whole deck? No, thank you, but its not for me

I'm confident you can swap tire without opening the controller, similar to the S22 where controller can still be attached to motor when you pull it out, just that nobody explored and/or recorded a video how to do that yet. That's one downside of the first tear-down videos is that their goal is to tear it down and they don't explore how to be smart about it.

[Freeforester]

ISTR one of the early teardown videos (I can’t quite recall which, but possibly EUC Upgrades Kevin’s) where it was indeed suggested that there was no need to open up the controller module/box in order to change the tyre. I’m sure soon enough we willl be shown how. 
 

I hear another moan about how ‘hard’ it will be to disassemble the wheel more generally, but I think they mistake ‘difficulty’ and possibly ‘tedium’, it may well be a bit boring to unscrew the hardware, but it’s hardly rocket science.

[Rollin-on-1]

I watched the EUC upgrades teardown closely to see what it would take to change a tire.  I am quite confident that the controller seal doen't need to be broken for a tire change.  There are a lot of screws that will need to come out, but nothing particularly difficult.  Working the tire on and off the rim while half the EUC is still attached and the controller is still connected to the phase wires could be cumbersome though.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Rollin-on-1
Typos

[Rawnei]

Here is what I imagine you have to do, this is pure speculation but not unrealistic speculation from watching tear down:

1. Unscrew all the bumpers/kickstand/etc i.e. anything extra that bridges the two battery boxes together
2. Open the top of the battery boxes so you can unplug the batteries from the controller
3. Unscrew controller construction, don't open controller leave it sealed
4. Unscrew only one battery box from suspension pillar and lift it off (possibly something else needs to be loosened here like mudguard mounts difficult to say at this point)
5. Unscrew suspension pillar from motor
6. You now have access to motor for tire swap
7. If not enough space to work with would have to do the same thing with battery box and pillar on other side so that motor comes completely free but people are swapping tires this way on other wheels

[dredwheel]

38 minutes ago, Freeforester said:

ISTR one of the early teardown videos (I can’t quite recall which, but possibly EUC Upgrades Kevin’s) where it was indeed suggested that there was no need to open up the controller module/box in order to change the tyre. I’m sure soon enough we willl be shown how. 
 

I hear another moan about how ‘hard’ it will be to disassemble the wheel more generally, but I think they mistake ‘difficulty’ and possibly ‘tedium’, it may well be a bit boring to unscrew the hardware, but it’s hardly rocket science.

You know how it is with new wheels. People that aren't planning to get them have to shit on them in order to reassure themselves.

 

I AM NOT GETTING THIS WHEEL FOR X REASON!

 

as if they'd get one anyway.

 

[Rollin-on-1]

37 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Here is what I imagine you have to do, this is pure speculation but not unrealistic speculation from watching tear down:

1. Unscrew all the bumpers/kickstand/etc i.e. anything extra that bridges the two battery boxes together
2. Open the top of the battery boxes so you can unplug the batteries from the controller
3. Unscrew controller construction, don't open controller leave it sealed
4. Unscrew only one battery box from suspension pillar and lift it off (possibly something else needs to be loosened here like mudguard mounts difficult to say at this point)
5. Unscrew suspension pillar from motor
6. You now have access to motor for tire swap
7. If not enough space to work with would have to do the same thing with battery box and pillar on other side so that motor comes completely free but people are swapping tires this way on other wheels

I had started typing all that out myself but decided it would take too long.  I agree with you.  Although, I don't think the front bumpers HAVE to come off. But it may be easier to take them off anyway so the wheel will be more stable on its side while working on it.  Same for the kickstand.  I believe it is possible to only take off 1 side of the kickstand if someone wanted to.  Despite there being a lot of screws, it looks like the wheel should be fairly easy to work on as long as you don't need to access the control board itself.

[Funky]

2 hours ago, Rawnei said:

I'm confident you can swap tire without opening the controller, similar to the S22 where controller can still be attached to motor when you pull it out, just that nobody explored and/or recorded a video how to do that yet. That's one downside of the first tear-down videos is that their goal is to tear it down and they don't explore how to be smart about it.

But still you need to work around a wire that is still connected.. Removing whole rim and working on it separately is much, much better. No need to worry about the dam wire.

1 hour ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

Working the tire on and off the rim while half the EUC is still attached and the controller is still connected to the phase wires could be cumbersome though.

For sure.. I can't imagine working on the tire/rim, while euc is still connected to the motor itself. I know it's doable.. But taking motor out by itself are way better.

First time putting M/C tire on my wheel was nightmare. Second time it was easier, because i brute forced it on. Having euc connected by wire would be awful experience. 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Funky

[Rollin-on-1]

35 minutes ago, Funky said:

No need to worry about the dam wire.

The motor wires are always going to be coming out of the motor.  With a motor fully removed from the rest of the EUC, you have to worry about pinching and damaging the phase wires.  By leaving one whole side of the Patton still assembled, it may end up providing a more stable surface to work with.  TBD.  It may even be possible to partially secure the controller back to the remaining side so it isn't flopping around everytime the rim moves.

TBH, I think people are making a bigger deal out of the Patton tire change than necessary.  The hard part is going to be getting the tire off/on the rim - same as it is with any other wheel.  There are more screws, but they are good screws with easy access.  NBD.

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

But still you need to work around a wire that is still connected.. Removing whole rim and working on it separately is much, much better. No need to worry about the dam wire.

Regardless you don't need to unseal the controller, it's an isolated and free-floating piece which is the point here, people don't want to break the silicone and re-apply it.

[Funky]

1 hour ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

The motor wires are always going to be coming out of the motor.  With a motor fully removed from the rest of the EUC, you have to worry about pinching and damaging the phase wires.  By leaving one whole side of the Patton still assembled, it may end up providing a more stable surface to work with.  TBD.  It may even be possible to partially secure the controller back to the remaining side so it isn't flopping around everytime the rim moves.

TBH, I think people are making a bigger deal out of the Patton tire change than necessary.  The hard part is going to be getting the tire off/on the rim - same as it is with any other wheel.  There are more screws, but they are good screws with easy access.  NBD.

If one has a stool, or some kind workplace with a hole in middle - you can simply place the motor/rim sideways without worry of wires.

Otherwise you are yanking whole euc around, as one side is still connected to euc body. Yanking suspension, screws, whole ONE side. I could see someone breaking something like that.  

I cringed when i saw some tire changes done like that. When one side of suspension/axle are still connected. (Moving whole side around, i can imagine it's not good for bearings.) 

But true - hardest part is getting off/on the tire itself.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Funky

[mrelwood]

 

On 4/6/2023 at 6:19 PM, BKW said:

Suspension is top of the line for EUCs.

I was surprised to see how much the Patton was bouncing and shaking in the Eevee’s stairs test though.

On 4/6/2023 at 6:19 PM, BKW said:

The only thing that kind of makes me wonder is the size of the motor also acting as the rim since it's so large. I wonder what would happen if you cased that "rim" edge of the motor? Would you ruin the motor?

All EUCs have the rim as a fixed part of the motor with the rotator magnets installed on the inner surface. If you are used to seeing “spokes” between the motor hub and the rim, that’s just how 14” motors (18/19/20” wheels) are commonly made. The motor hub in itself is the same size as a 12” motor hub (16” wheels), the only difference is the distance from the hub to the rim.

 If you damage a rim on any EUC, you have damaged a part of the motor. No matter if there are fixed “spokes” or not.

 

On 4/7/2023 at 1:18 AM, techyiam said:

Marty started his electric wheel journey since the beginning of time. He has ridden and owned a lot wheels and knows many electric wheel enthusiasts and insiders.

He has, but he is more partial to biased opinions than what I’d like to see from a reviewer. The listener needs to put Marty’s comments through a Marty Translator to get a more wholesome understanding of matters. Marty also only reviews wheels that interest him personally, muddying the waters even further.

On 4/7/2023 at 1:18 AM, techyiam said:

Additionally, Marty has been continually putting down Gotway and Begode wheels' build quality openly

All I’ve seen is that he laughs at the issues and shrugs them off as just another day at the office. He’s way more critical towards other manufacturers.

On 4/7/2023 at 1:18 AM, techyiam said:

Some may say that is a contradiction in terms, but to the Begode performance addicts, I think they consider it as the price of admission. 

I’m sure that can be said of all addicts. Maybe one could say then that Marty only makes reviews for Begode addicts. But if you want a clear picture on how to compare wheels, he’s not a good source of information.

 

On 4/7/2023 at 6:23 AM, bpong said:

Pattons BMS is not a 'smart' BMS

This is a confusing subject, but at this time in the world if EUCs, we call “Smart BMS” what the V13 and S22 come equipped with.

On 4/7/2023 at 6:23 AM, bpong said:

does not having the 'smart' version of a BMS make the Patton's BMS system less reliable or less informative ?

Yes, but let’s not forget that a dumb BMS is still a normal EUC BMS. I actually think that the biggest practical difference is in how each BMS balances the cells. The V13 for example balances the cells when it’s charging and the battery level is above about 50%. The traditional EUC BMS only balances the cells above about 100% battery. So you need to charge the Patton to full for any balancing to happen. On the V13 you can extend the battery life by charging only to 80%, while on a dumb BMS that may kill the whole pack as soon as 1300miles.

On 4/7/2023 at 6:23 AM, bpong said:

fireball..., did that euc that was on fire have a 'smart' BMS ???

Yes. But it was a preproduction wheel that had already been behaving strangely before. The riders continued riding anyway, which caused a BMS design failure to cause the battery to go boom.

On 4/7/2023 at 6:23 AM, bpong said:

 would a 'smart' BMS make ownership of the Patton more reliable and charging the battery pack more safer ?

If done well, then it would, yes. But the Shermans with their dumb BMSs aren’t having much issues with battery fires either.

[techyiam]

49 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Marty also only reviews wheels that interest him personally, muddying the waters even further.

I don't see that as a negative. He openly states what kind of riding he likes to do. And he evaluates wheels according to that. And he has been a Gotway / Begode fan forever, so he is biased. But if his bias is aligned with yours, his opinions could be of help.

53 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

All I’ve seen is that he laughs at the issues and shrugs them off as just another day at the office. He’s way more critical towards other manufacturers.

But look at how many Gotway and Begode wheels he has owned. You can't say he doesn't speak without experience. But he himself has a technical background and tons of experience, and he has his network of people in the electric wheel community. So he is well equipped to tackle issues. And thus, he is biased in that way too.

Actually, he is also a fan of the Sherman. And he say good things about the V13.

I find that different reviewers have different areas of biases that can align with my own. So I end up gleaning bit and pieces from various reviewers.

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

But if you want a clear picture on how to compare wheels, he’s not a good source of information.

No one reviewer can give a clear unbiased picture across all wheels. However, I do agree with you in that Marty has a strong bias towards Begode, and long range wheels.

And that is why I am somewhat cautious with regards to his harsh opinion on the Commander Pro build quality.

[Taras]

I've made some pics:
https://ecodrift-ru.translate.goog/2023/04/08/veteran-patton-vneshnij-vid/?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ru&_x_tr_pto=wapp

[M1thr4ndr]

Crossposting this to trigger @Funky

[Funky]

33 minutes ago, M1thr4ndr said:

Crossposting this to trigger @Funky

Not triggered.  Just disappointed that wheels are so heavy.

[Rollin-on-1]

Check out how easily the Patton climbs stairs.  Getting more and more impressed with this wheel every day.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CqyV4lSO20Y/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Edited April 8, 2023 by Rollin-on-1

[eevees]

1 hour ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

Check out how easily the Patton climbs stairs.  Getting more and more impressed with this wheel every day.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CqyV4lSO20Y/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Honestly, it's such a remarkable wheel especially when it comes to the pure torque that allows you to do this so easily. I know people scream Veteran bias when it comes to us but the fact is they make solid wheels that don't burden our repair centre too often (with the exception of the Abrams issues that have been fixed). 

[bpong]

On 3/10/2023 at 4:12 PM, LeGiroquoi said:

That speed limit is for me the definition of micromobility, speeds over 60 are competing with motorcycles.

 

LeGiroquoi;

i find quite often in the toronto bike lanes, there is so much traffic, i have to ride with car and motorcycle traffic.  my old tesla V2 can only top out safely at 45kph,  so im riding in the right most side of the traffic lane like a cyclist with no bike lane.  when i see the bike lane clear, i will redirect back to the bike lane when possible.  lately though, i find im riding more in the street than the bike lane.  im looking forward to acquiring a more performance oriented euc soon, so i may end up riding with traffic most of the time, and riding in the bike lanes to get some rest from traffic kaos...

wishing you safe riding for 2023 !

Edited April 9, 2023 by bpong
got wrong name of orig poster...

[techyiam]

6 hours ago, bpong said:

my old tesla V2 can only top out safely at 45kph,  so im riding in the right most side of the traffic lane like a cyclist with no bike lane.

If you can already do this on a T2 in Toronto traffic unscathed, i would venture a guess that you will start riding your next wheel like a motorcycle. You may also want to consider the V13. I find it too nerve wracking to ride on the side of the road at higher speeds. Plus the V13 has better brakes according to Eevees.