Veteran Patton 16" 126v 2220wh

[Funky]

18 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Yup. Both lower rails, both upper rails, and both shocks are 1.8kg total. I didn’t count in the handle or the side panels because they would be needed even without the suspension.

So i was right. A good middle ground wheel should not weight more than 30kg. Even with 18" tire...

(I thought i was going insane thinking that.. I wasn't thinking wrongly. YOU ALL where wrong.)  

I wish someone would make similar wheel to MSP/RS... With top mounted motherboard. (On paper those wheels are amazing.)

Edited March 27, 2023 by Funky

[mrelwood]

1 minute ago, Eucner said:

That would keep up the tradition of confusing tire specifications. R in car tires mean radial ply structure.

Wow, I always thought it was there to imply the word “R”adius. It won’t work then.

1 minute ago, Eucner said:

Almost all EUC tires are using bias ply. It should be called B12 and B14.

Since the point of this sizing is only to show the rim size, I don’t think the tire type should be included. Maybe one just needs to say the whole word “rim”.

[Funky]

Just now, mrelwood said:

Maybe one just needs to say the whole word “rim”.

That's extra 2 letters.. People don't like to do extra work, reading, typing... Lets go simply by number? Duck the letters. 

[xiiijojjo]

27 minutes ago, techyiam said:

However, after watching the technical inspection of the Patton by Kevin (Euc Uigrades), I am not certain how rigid is the structure formed by the battery boxes, top plate, and the suspension struts. Additionally, the controller board isn't in a sealed, self contained module. They merely slap the board on top of the top plate and silicone a cover on top.

I having some reservations right now. This wheel doesn't seem to be designed to be readily serviceable.

I didn't see that video yet when posting but I can see your point. Fast tire change on the RS is a lifesaver and I would rather keep that ability. 

Yeah, I also have reservations for now and I'm certainly never gonna be paying 1000s of dollars to test wheels for these companies (again), but I am excited to see more videos and reviews drop for this wheel as opposed to anything else that was announced since RS at the end of 2019. 

It will be interesting to see Gotway respond with something whacky they cooked up in a couple of weeks... But as much as I like to dunk on Gotway, and rightfully so, they are the only ones who have managed to create a product where I find the price to performance satisfactory relative to my preferences and needs, that has never burned me neither figuratively or literally.

Edited March 27, 2023 by xiiijojjo

[Freeforester]

There is a video on EUC upgrades (Kevin’s) channel briefly touching on the way to get to the tyre with somewhat less hassle, similar to doing the same with a Sherman ‘S’, it seems.

Meanwhile:

 

[techyiam]

20 minutes ago, xiiijojjo said:

It will be interesting to see Gotway respond with something whacky they cooked up in a couple of weeks..

It would be interesting to see a teardown of the Extreme Bull Mini.

Although those who have seen a Commander Pro in person have consistently condemned it for poor build quality, and I haven't seen one in person myself, at least in the teardown videos, I can't say there is as much concern for the structure as I have seen in the Patton.

In the case of the Patton, the battery cases looked to be extruded aluminum boxes, and the top mounting bosses are tiny and have a slit in them.

The pedal are directly mounted onto the battery boxes, and so both the pedals and the boxes are subjected to full impact forces. And the battery boxes are bolted directly to the suspension struts using sizable bolts. This part is fine. But the problem arises when the two suspension structs do not serve the same function. One carries the compression damping and the other rebound damping. This is going to creates additional stresses. For those who ride offroad or do jumps and drops, I have concern that the top plate to battery boxes mechanical connection will weaken or fail in fatigue over time. Remember, those tiny screws are fastened into aluminum thread holes that have slits in them.

 

[techyiam]

I like the lights on the Patton though.

[xiiijojjo]

1 hour ago, Freeforester said:

 

 

I hope there's an option to disengage the blinkers as they are by no means a safe way of signaling your intentions in traffic. I would prefer to keep using hand signals while not distracting traffic behind me with random and bright techno lights. 

If you want effective blinkers (at night) wear the indik8a blinkers over your wrist guards.

Edited March 27, 2023 by xiiijojjo

[Rollin-on-1]

1 hour ago, xiiijojjo said:

I hope there's an option to disengage the blinkers as they are by no means a safe way of signaling your intentions in traffic. I would prefer to keep using hand signals while not distracting traffic behind me with random and bright techno lights. 

If you want effective blinkers (at night) wear the indik8a blinkers over your wrist guards.

Agreed.  If stopped at a light the wheel will often lean slightly to one side.  It will be very easy to create a dangerous situation where the signal indicates a turn in the opposite direction than the rider's actual intent.  

This is nothing new though...my 16x does the same thing.

I like the lights you shared - I'll have to look those up.

[bpong]

4 hours ago, xiiijojjo said:

I hope there's an option to disengage the blinkers as they are by no means a safe way of signaling your intentions in traffic. I would prefer to keep using hand signals while not distracting traffic behind me with random and bright techno lights. 

If you want effective blinkers (at night) wear the indik8a blinkers over your wrist guards.

oooooooo... im a gear freak....this is indeed interesting !!!! i always use hand signals whether in daylight or night time.  during night riding i carry a diy gizmo that i attach a very very bright flashlight (fenix TK35UE) to.  it lights my way forward.  it also makes my left hand - hand signals quite visible.  nice idea for the turn signal hand gizmos !!!  i would wear one only on my left hand since thats the signal side...great post...!

[techyiam]

I watching e-Rides Battery Installation video, I need to revised my earlier comment regarding structural rigidity of the Patton chassis. 

In Kevin's video, the front and back grab handles, the rear kick stand, and the jump pad mechanism were not highlighted.

But after watching e-Rides video, it became apparent to me now, that Leaper Kim designers strategically use the front and rear lift handles, rear kick parking stand, and the jump pad mechanism to reinforce the structural rigidity of the whole assembly (chassis).

The design looks a lot better to me now.

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by techyiam

[Paul D]

14 hours ago, Funky said:

If people didn't jump and ride like dipshits.. Their rims would not get bent - one could argue.  Somehow i'm not bending any rim with my ~280lbs heavy ass.

Making lightweight wheel is easy. They just need to stop adding speed/power/range into smaller wheels. Otherwise they become same thing as "big wheels". (They already have many copy/paste options given from older models. Simply upgrade them.)  -Veteran Fatton is good example what "lightweight" wheel should not be.

The motor and batteries should be the most heavy thing in EUC. Body needs only solid exoskeleton, that hold everything together. Add some aluminum boxes around battery/board and you have a wheel.  

I own some glocks. The plastic they use is pretty dang strong. I would love to see some lightweight wheels made of very strong polymers. 

[M1thr4ndr]

3 hours ago, techyiam said:

I watching e-Rides Battery Installation video, I need to revised my earlier comment regarding structural rigidity of the Patton chassis. 

In Kevin's video, the front and back grab handles, the rear kick stand, and the jump pad mechanism were not highlighted.

But after watching e-Rides video, it became apparent to me now, that Leaper Kim designers strategically use the front and rear lift handles, rear kick parking stand, and the jump pad mechanism to reinforce the structural rigidity of the whole assembly (chassis).

The design looks a lot better to me now.

 

Yeah all the plastics on the corners (2 handles, kickstand, jump pad) act as bumpers and they seem to have extra 2-3cm of crumple zone chamber in the back and front of the boxes

[bpong]

22 hours ago, Cobaltsaber said:

It is tough being the manufacturer meeting everyone's wants, but I dont really see who asked for the patton besides a very niche set of people who didnt already buy an s22 or master. More options is always better for the consumer

agree and disagree.

agree that more options is always better for the consumer.  disagree that there is a niche set of any body.  i didnt ask for veteran to create the patton.  they created the patton and are gambling with its future sale-ability.  what i want is the build quality to be better and the design to be better.  i also agree with you that its tough for a manufacturer to meet everyones wants.  but there should be a guideline in quality and design that meets a certain level that would be more than having consumers act as the testing ground for what a manufacturer offers to the public.  for the time being,  we will have to settle for whatever the manufacturers offer and be (reluctantly) grateful for their effort.  manufacturers can try harder, and can give us more for our money.  i enjoyed reading your posting cobaltsaber,  its a pleasant alternative to specification banter.

[xiiijojjo]

18 hours ago, techyiam said:

The design looks a lot better to me now.

 

Strong agree. This video just made me understand why the 39kg weight is completely justified relative to the stats. This thing is truly built like a tank but I do wonder what material is used, might it be the same material as in the Sherman S, and how is the thickness and strength of this material relative to the plastic in a Gotway RS? 

If this thing is as crash-proof as it looks I don't mind spending an extra hour every time I have to change a tire, as I still haven't had to change the tire on my RS after years. 

If nothing better has been announced by the time this has reviews and threads on the forum, I'm almost certain looking at my next wheel. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by xiiijojjo

[unicycle bunny]

On 3/12/2023 at 1:38 AM, techyiam said:

I was thinking along the lines of new riders like Kitty who convinced herself that the one wheel she can afford and wants to get is the Sherman-S for learning and foreseeable future riding. She said she could afford to only buy one wheel. The Sherman-S is a nice premium wheel to be sure, but the tricky part is to learn to ride on a 100 lbs 20"wheel.

I'm in the same boat right now. What happened to Kitty - did she succeed? 

[Funky]

1 hour ago, xiiijojjo said:

Strong agree. This video just made me understand why the 39kg weight is completely justified relative to the stats. This thing is truly built like a tank but I do wonder what material is used, might it be the same material as in the Sherman S, and how is the thickness and strength of this material relative to the plastic in a Gotway RS? 

If this thing is as crash-proof as it looks I don't mind spending an extra hour every time I have to change a tire, as I still haven't had to change the tire on my RS after years. 

If nothing better has been announced by the time this has reviews and threads on the forum, I'm almost certain I'm looking at my next wheel. 

Or you could simply not crash.  How hard is that? They simply need to stop building "box" shaped bodies.

 

 

Does anyone knows how heavy is the batteries/motor/body by themselves?

If Fatton without batteries weighs ~31kg, that's ~8kg for battery. How heavy is the motor/rim/tire? (I figure it could be around ~13kg together?) That leaves ~18kg for body, seems kinda heavy for a body. Doh it has suspension and somewhat robust metal build.. So yeah seems correct.

Still to heavy for what it is.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Funky

[CrabChampion]

2 hours ago, bpong said:

what i want is the build quality to be better and the design to be better.  i also agree with you that its tough for a manufacturer to meet everyones wants.  but there should be a guideline in quality and design that meets a certain level that would be more than having consumers act as the testing ground for what a manufacturer offers to the public.

I want manufacturers to increase quality without making a beefy heavy performance powerhouse. Seems like leaperkim are thinking "beefy means quality" when it comes to the design. The other manufacturers are rumored to be following the same trend. We dont need wheels to be overbuilt. Just a little over 2 years go we still had mainly plastic shell wheels. Rollcages were something never before seen before the sherman. There are places to save weight and still offer a good quality design I bet.

We dont NEED to pack these wheels with performance to the brim. Up the quality, leave the weight/performance the same. Look at how well the mten4 sold. Its sitting higher than the 16x and 18XL sales on eevees right now (which are solid starter wheels). Mten4 is a small lightweight wheel, but could use more care in its quality and design.

I was excited for the most recent 3000+wh heavy suspension wheels, but if we get more stuff like the patton, none of that stuff interests me when I have an EX30 in my hands. People are starting to realize the s22 is the new best performance to weight ratio when it comes to suspension wheels. Thats funny

[CrabChampion]

On 3/27/2023 at 5:19 PM, Funky said:

You know that suspension weights 2-5kg only.. At least on smaller wheels. V11 suspension alone is under 2kg. (If i'm not wrong, going off by memory..) 20lbs are crazy weight for suspension... (At least crazy weight on 40-60lbs wheel.)

 

But rest what you said are spot on. 35mph cruiser, with 1000-1500Wh battery would be amazing.

Yes give me this. I dont need performance packed into a wheel anymore. They already did that with the 3600wh wheels. Heck id even take a 100v v11 with 16" tire. Basically a T4 but with better quality lol

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, bunny said:

I'm in the same boat right now. What happened to Kitty - did she succeed? 

 

On 3/24/2023 at 4:22 PM, Kitty said:

But I don't think I will ever encourage anyone to start off on a heavy wheel.

 

 

[techyiam]

14 minutes ago, Cobaltsaber said:

We dont need wheels to be overbuilt. Just a little over 2 years go we still had mainly plastic shell wheels. Rollcages were something never before seen before the sherman. There are places to save weight and still offer a good quality design I bet.

But, but ... people have started to jump buses now. And if something goes wrong, they always put blame on the manufacturer first, and not the fact they have totally ignore the manufacturers' safe operating conditions, and would have otherwise voided the warranty. 😀

[wstuart]

3 hours ago, Funky said:

Or you could simply not crash.  How hard is that? 

Sounds like you never ridden offroad.  You should try it.  It's fun

[Paul D]

I’m addicted to this hobby. I’m kinda slobbering over this as a trail wheel. Definitely waiting on reviews though.  Also, my wife might not like it one bit. 
 

I scraped my pedals on the S recently. That’s how maneuverable I feel on it. This smaller form factor would be fun. 
 

I would still be very interested in a strong polymer wheel as I think it’s strength to weight ratio might be higher. 

[xiiijojjo]

5 hours ago, Funky said:

Or you could simply not crash.  How hard is that? They simply need to stop building "box" shaped bodies.

I certainly try my best. It's been a few years since I was at fault for a crash but this winter I slipped on a bit of ice I didn't see at around 30km/h which broke my trolley handle and rubber cover and did some superficial damage to the shell.. It's the 2nd replacement trolley handle I've ordered now so I'd also much prefer what seems to be a lockable trolley handle while still being at the rear of the EUC rather than the middle which I don't like on most models. 

No matter how good you are and how slowly you go crashes are 100% a possibility at any speed so having a more robust or even crash proof wheel is always worth the extra weight to me within reason. 

Also everyone needs to relax about all this " they need to stop building this type of wheel or that type of wheel"... Honestly when It comes to wheels and women I like variety so I welcome the diversity.

Edited March 29, 2023 by xiiijojjo

[Funky]

4 hours ago, wstuart said:

Sounds like you never ridden offroad.  You should try it.  It's fun

Have done. And have been a superman flying ~3 meters. When wheel suddenly went 90 degree in loose sand.  (I even knew - i will fall that day..)

2 hours ago, xiiijojjo said:

I certainly try my best. It's been a few years since I was at fault for a crash but this winter I slipped on a bit of ice I didn't see at around 30km/h which broke my trolley handle and rubber cover and did some superficial damage to the shell.. It's the 2nd replacement trolley handle I've ordered now so I'd also much prefer what seems to be a lockable trolley handle while still being at the rear of the EUC rather than the middle which I don't like on most models. 

No matter how good you are and how slowly you go crashes are 100% a possibility at any speed so having a more robust or even crash proof wheel is always worth the extra weight to me within reason. 

Also everyone needs to relax about all this " they need to stop building this type of wheel or that type of wheel"... Honestly when It comes to wheels and women I like variety so I welcome the diversity.

For winter you need studded tires.. And need to go about 30-40% slower, as you would be going in summer. (At least on smaller/slower wheels you can simply "run out" of the crash. When it slides sideways..) I haven't damaged my 18xl, which is all plastic build. So i could say anyone who damages their EUC are their fault. Jumping, riding like a moron and so on.. Most crashes happen, because the user did something wrong. It has been like that all the time. If people where more careful, they would not break things left/right.

Hole is a hole. Wheel is a wheel. Not much of a difference. (Only pro about wheels is that it doesn't nag and scream at you. It may only break some bones..) Then again idk.. I don't date. And don't seek out my better "other half".

I also like "variety", but someone who don't like more than 30kg heavy wheels. - I don't get any. Last wheel that was released in that weight was T4. And Mten4. One has the dumb suspension. (Yes - i don't want it..) And one is the clown 10" wheel.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Funky