Veteran Patton 16" 126v 2220wh

[The Brahan Seer]

7 hours ago, mrelwood said:

t isn’t though. The EUC voltage doesn’t affect the effort required, and only affects the torque if you tend to overlean the 100V version. The motor current might be a bit lower if the motor is tuned for the same top speed, otherwise there isn’t a difference either.

Peak power matters only of you reach it and consequently overtorque the wheel. Up until that point it behaves identically to a wheel with a larger peak power.

Yes of course you are right; peak power is peak power irrespective of voltage although I thought higher voltage means lower current, less heat and less resistance in the circuit and so is more efficient everything else being equal. Surely this equates to better range and better performance too?  I understand when you hit the max speed 100v gives the higher voltage wheels lets you go physically faster. But why is everyone reporting reaching the top speeds a lot quicker on high voltage wheels too?

[Bustapalapno]

31 minutes ago, bpong said:

i hope the patton gets rave reviews about the suspension... my old knees are abit more sensitive to irregularities in the roads these days....a quality suspended wheel of medium size and height,  moderate performance numbers.... thats my preference and ambition...crossing fingers and waiting for more reviews in the coming months....

The suspension looks like fundamentally the same design as the Sherman-S, which is to say industry leading. I got back on my hero and thought I had locked out my shock on accident, but it was fully functionally, I just was so used to the butter smoothness of the Sherman-S. Significantly better even than S22 with aftermarket sliders. 

[Freeforester]

On 3/21/2023 at 8:39 PM, techyiam said:

Here is a review of the Veteran Patton from Jack ex-Kingsong.

 

I note that Jack is a bit more positive about the suspension on the Patton than he was with the Sherman S - in his ‘S’ review he was suggesting it was a negative thing that you couldn’t swap out the struts for another type, but now he states  07:50 that the Fastace suspension is one of the very best available currently.

[Freeforester]

On 3/21/2023 at 10:24 PM, Funky said:

Nah.. I don't need gold. I'm not a pimp. But rest sound quit good. Can't wait year 3000. That's okay, that i will be dead already by that time. I will ask to engrave on my tombstone to revive me when they have made that wheel.

I thought you’d be having a traditional (- okay, possibly Lithium-fuelled) longboat send off, like most of the vikings around the Baltics used to? 

[Funky]

20 minutes ago, Freeforester said:

I thought you’d be having a traditional (- okay, possibly Lithium-fuelled) longboat send off, like most of the vikings around the Baltics used to? 

How will they find me and know when to revive me??? Didn't think about that part, did ya?

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, Freeforester said:

I note that Jack is a bit more positive about the suspension on the Patton than he was with the Sherman S - in his ‘S’ review he was suggesting it was a negative thing that you couldn’t swap out the struts for another type, but now he states  07:50 that the Fastace suspension is one of the very best available currently.

It sounded more to me like that he wasn't quite sure how well the FastAce suspension will turn out since he only had ridden 200 km's on the Sherman-S.

But he did say the Sherman-S suspension worked tremendously well.

Time-stamped. 

 

[Clem604]

10 minutes ago, techyiam said:

But he did say the Sherman-S suspension worked tremendously well

It does I'm currently at 770km's on mine.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Clem604

[Paul D]

2 hours ago, Clem604 said:

It does I'm currently at 770km's on mine.

Almost 900 miles on mine. Still great. 

[KiwiMark]

I'm just over 1,300km on my Sherman S. No maintenance or repairs done. No weird noises or vibrations, everything still seems as good as new. Based on how good my Sherman S is, I would have no hesitation in recommending the Patton for someone that is happy with the 2,200Wh battery and wants a tough & powerful wheel with a 12" rim size and too much weight.

[jimjam.nyc]

A lot of people are concerned about the weight. I guess for trails this may equal a bad thing. But I am not convinced extra weight is an all in bad thing. I think 90lbs is really pushing the boundaries, but there is added stability if you are riding mostly on streets. 

I never ridden a 90lb wheel, but going from v8 to 16x to v12, I have only found benefits in going up in weight so far. Unless needing to lift the thing, which thankfully I don't really have to.

Also coming from all these 16inch wheels I do understand the comparison more to the 18inch category. The v12  Def rides more like an 18inch than a 16inch in my opinion. I have to believe the sort of 17.5-inch tire diameter and the weight just makes it more like an 18inch vs something like a 16x which just feels smaller in comparision 

[CrabChampion]

10 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

A lot of people are concerned about the weight. I guess for trails this may equal a bad thing. But I am not convinced extra weight is an all in bad thing. I think 90lbs is really pushing the boundaries, but there is added stability if you are riding mostly on streets. 

I never ridden a 90lb wheel, but going from v8 to 16x to v12, I have only found benefits in going up in weight so far. Unless needing to lift the thing, which thankfully I don't really have to.

Also coming from all these 16inch wheels I do understand the comparison more to the 18inch category. The v12  Def rides more like an 18inch than a 16inch in my opinion. I have to believe the sort of 17.5-inch tire diameter and the weight just makes it more like an 18inch vs something like a 16x which just feels smaller in comparision 

My cutoff limit for trails is 80lbs. I don't care how much more torque there is. I dont need 2200wh battery on trails. An 1800wh would be enough on the patton for me if it would bring the weight down.

I've tried almost every popular wheel on the market and honestly the most fun and pleasant to ride wheels have been in the 60-80lbs category. The ride characteristic is unlike any other and most of them aren't lacking in stability. I am willing to accept a heavier wheel for street if it gives me more range, but not for my trail dedicated wheel. 

Alot of reviews say the extra torque on heavy wheels make the weight not noticeable but this simply isn't true. For accelerating and braking yes. The torquier heavy wheels accelerate pretty much the same imo, but where the weight makes a difference is in turning. When you lean the wheel over, there is simply more weight tipping over on your leg. Ergonomics also play a huge part in how the wheel feels, but the patton looks pretty much the same ergonomics as the sherman-s

 That's just my thoughts anyways. I'm holding out for inmotion and kingsong to announce their 16" wheels 

[Bustapalapno]

20 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

A lot of people are concerned about the weight. I guess for trails this may equal a bad thing. But I am not convinced extra weight is an all in bad thing. I think 90lbs is really pushing the boundaries, but there is added stability if you are riding mostly on streets. 

 

IMHO, the ideal power to weight ratio for trails is found on the RS. As a 150lb male, that is about as much mass as I can quickly move between my legs. Even the EXN starts to feel like a lot to handle. 

[BKW]

What other wheels are 18 inch?

[CrabChampion]

Just now, Bustapalapno said:

IMHO, the ideal power to weight ratio for trails is found on the RS. As a 150lb male, that is about as much mass as I can quickly move between my legs. Even the EXN starts to feel like a lot to handle. 

Loved my RS. It truly is the best power to weight ratio. I need to get a HT version as my dedicated tail wheel. Or if the 134v T4 rumors are true

[CrabChampion]

2 minutes ago, BKW said:

What other wheels are 18 inch?

18 and 20" wheels are used interchangeably in the EUC community. v11, s18, RS, EXN, Sherman, Ex30, sherman-s, etc are all "18 inch" wheels. They all use the same 14" rimsize and all tires are pretty much compatible (besides some shell fitment compatibility)

 

 If you install a street tire on those wheels, it's basically an 18". Install a knobby and it'll be 20". Generally speaking

Edited March 23, 2023 by Cobaltsaber

[BKW]

6 minutes ago, Cobaltsaber said:

18 and 20" wheels are used interchangeably in the EUC community. v11, s18, RS, EXN, Sherman, Ex30, sherman-s, etc are all "18 inch" wheels. They all use the same 14" rimsize and all tires are pretty much compatible (besides some shell fitment compatibility)

 

 If you install a street tire on those wheels, it's basically an 18". Install a knobby and it'll be 20". Generally speaking

so, given that information, the Patton is basically 1K cheaper because of the battery size being 1400Wh less? It seems pretty identical to the Sherman-S, minus the 126 volt and battery size..

Is this wheel basically the same size as the Sherman-S, minus the battery size?

[jimjam.nyc]

48 minutes ago, BKW said:

Is this wheel basically the same size as the Sherman-S, minus the battery size?

I think the patton is a decent bit more compact than the sherman-s. It is hard to tell from pics, but when jack had it next to the t4 it looked closer to that size vs sherman s. 

Still won't know until people start getting theirs.

[BKW]

2 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I think the patton is a decent bit more compact than the sherman-s. It is hard to tell from pics, but when jack had it next to the t4 it looked closer to that size vs sherman s. 

Still won't know until people start getting theirs.

Yes, I am confused by its size compared to the SHerman-S (discounting the battery, of course).

Good comparison reference to the t4.. i forgot about that part of the video

[CrabChampion]

55 minutes ago, BKW said:

so, given that information, the Patton is basically 1K cheaper because of the battery size being 1400Wh less? It seems pretty identical to the Sherman-S, minus the 126 volt and battery size..

Is this wheel basically the same size as the Sherman-S, minus the battery size?

patton is a "16 inch" wheel they are calling an 18". Its measured at 17.5" outer diameter apparently, but its a 12" rim like the v12, 16x, T4, etc. As far as i'm concerned, its in the 16" wheel category.  Its smaller battery than the sherman-s AND smaller tire size

@mrelwood already mentioned the tire naming convention for EUCs is absolutely ridiculous and very misleading. We should be classifying the wheels by their rim size to be more accurate

Edited March 23, 2023 by Cobaltsaber

[jimjam.nyc]

2 minutes ago, Cobaltsaber said:

patton is a "16 inch" wheel they are calling an 18". Its measured at 17.5" outer diameter apparently, but its a 12" rim like the v12, 16x, T4, etc. As far as i'm concerned, its in the 16" wheel category.  Its smaller battery than the sherman-s AND smaller tire size

@mrelwood already mentioned the tire naming convention for EUCs is absolutely ridiculous and very misleading. We should be classifying the wheels by their rim size to be more accurate

I think these days more goes into classifying wheels than rim size to be honest. I do agree calling it 18inch is a bit overboard. But we now have suspension, fatter and different tires, and much heavier weights which drastically change things. 

I Def would not put a v12, t4, or patton in thr same classification as a 16s.

So while I agree it's not an 18inch wheel, It is very different than other 16inch wheels. So to me it's not all about the size of the rim ( that's what he said ;))

[techyiam]

13 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I Def would not put a v12, t4, or patton in thr same classification as a 16s.

So while I agree it's not an 18inch wheel, It is very different than other 16inch wheels. So to me it's not all about the size of the rim

+1

My 16 x 2.125, T3 is no where as stable nor planted as my 16 x 3.0, V12.

My V12 with a 2.75-16 scooter tire is significantly more stable and planted than my stock V12.

I would expect the right 3.00-12 scooter tire would be even more stable and planted.

Edited March 23, 2023 by techyiam

[UniVehje]

10 hours ago, The Brahan Seer said:

But why is everyone reporting reaching the top speeds a lot quicker on high voltage wheels too?

Plasebo mostly. Bigger number gives more confidence to lean stronger. They build wheels with higher voltages mostly because bigger numbers sell better. But there's another thread about this topic:

 

3 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I have to believe the sort of 17.5-inch tire diameter and the weight just makes it more like an 18inch vs something like a 16x which just feels smaller in comparision 

16X has the exact same tire size as Patton. Of course the stock tire might be slightly different and Patton might have more room to fit fatter tires. 

2 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

So while I agree it's not an 18inch wheel, It is very different than other 16inch wheels.

That's why I tend to use 18x3 or 16x3 nomenclature. EUC community is just too confused about tire sizes and wheel size categories. 

18x3" wheels:

- S22, V11, Sherman, SherMax, S18, MSX, EX... Basically all wheels marketed as 18, 19 or 20 inch wheels.

18x2.5 wheels:

- 18XL, older MSupers, feels different from 18x3" and therefore weird calling them same 18" although that's the category they fit in. 

16x3" wheels:

- 16X, V12, T4, Patton, Nikola

16x2.5" wheels:

- V10F, cannot come up with others right now. Feels very different from 16x3" wheels.

16x2.125"ish wheels:

- 16S, V8, T3 and Tesla. Feels very different from bigger 16" wheels. Even compared to 16x2.5" there's a big difference. 

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

My V12 with a 2.75-16 scooter tire is significantly more stable and planted than my stock V12.

I would expect the right 3.00-16 scooter tire would be even more stable and planted.

I think you mean 2.75-12 tire on V12. 3.00-12 might not fit but I'm not sure. 

[techyiam]

40 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

Plasebo mostly. Bigger number gives more confidence to lean stronger. They build wheels with higher voltages mostly because bigger numbers sell better. But there's another thread about this topic:

 

16X has the exact same tire size as Patton. Of course the stock tire might be slightly different and Patton might have more room to fit fatter tires. 

That's why I tend to use 18x3 or 16x3 nomenclature. EUC community is just too confused about tire sizes and wheel size categories. 

18x3" wheels:

- S22, V11, Sherman, SherMax, S18, MSX, EX... Basically all wheels marketed as 18, 19 or 20 inch wheels.

18x2.5 wheels:

- 18XL, older MSupers, feels different from 18x3" and therefore weird calling them same 18" although that's the category they fit in. 

16x3" wheels:

- 16X, V12, T4, Patton, Nikola

16x2.5" wheels:

- V10F, cannot come up with others right now. Feels very different from 16x3" wheels.

16x2.125"ish wheels:

- 16S, V8, T3 and Tesla. Feels very different from bigger 16" wheels. Even compared to 16x2.5" there's a big difference. 

I think you mean 2.75-12 tire on V12. 3.00-12 might not fit but I'm not sure. 

The tire on the V12 HT is a 3.00-12 tire. But I have never tried a 3.00-12 tire on my V12. My rim is not as wide as the V12 HT anyway.

But back to my original statement, I meant that if you can find the right 3.00-12 tire for the Patton, it can be more stable and planted than a wheel with a 2.75-12 tire.

The size of the tire counts, but so does the tire design too.

[techyiam]

7 hours ago, UniVehje said:

16X has the exact same tire size as Patton. Of course the stock tire might be slightly different and Patton might have more room to fit fatter tires. 

No, it doesn't. 

The 16X has the 16 x 3.00 stock tire. Generally speaking, the equivalent scooter tire sizing would be 2.75-12.

The Patton has a 3.00-12 stock tire. Sizing-wise, this is a bigger tire.

The 16 x 3.00 is a bicycle tire.

The 3.00-12 is a scooter tire.

The scooter has a much stiffer sidewall and tread.

I personally prefer the "right" scooter tire over a bicycle tire for electric wheels. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by techyiam

[techyiam]

59 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

16x3" wheels:

- 16X, V12, T4, Patton, Nikola

The V12 HT, and the Patton use the 3.00-12 scooter tire sizing. Not the same.