Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[itsmark]

1 hour ago, Beachboy said:

Hey, excused me if this had been asked before.. but how do we lift this wheel anyway?

It was mentioned in the live stream. If I remember right you lift the front by the handle (replaceable bumper) and the rear... I don't remember, maybe under the seat?

[Meserias]

Regrading lifting this wheel I miss the 18XL / 16X trolley handle when weight it's balanced in a proper and logical way.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Meserias

[Rawnei]

5 hours ago, itsmark said:

It was mentioned in the live stream. If I remember right you lift the front by the handle (replaceable bumper) and the rear... I don't remember, maybe under the seat?

Something like that, he said "Shermanesque" meaning two hands, but he wasn't exactly sure.

[Jon Stern]

15 hours ago, Beachboy said:

Hey, excused me if this had been asked before.. but how do we lift this wheel anyway?

Oh, it's easy. Like this!

[Lukasz]

58 minutes ago, Jon Stern said:

Oh, it's easy. Like this!

We know those stories well, but S18 made to the top without issues, even if it does not contain internal fan ;-)

[Heyzeus]

18 hours ago, Beachboy said:

Hey, excused me if this had been asked before.. but how do we lift this wheel anyway?

Biceps

[That Guy]

21 hours ago, Beachboy said:

Hey, excused me if this had been asked before.. but how do we lift this wheel anyway?

No obvious way from looking at the render... I think they mat need to add a protecting arch at the back around the suspension system and it then would make it "shermanesque"...

Edited August 29, 2021 by That Guy

[enaon]

I think jack said it is sherman like, you can lift it up from the front bumper, and a hand grab under the seat at the back. 

[enaon]

4 hours ago, Lukasz said:

We know those stories well, but S18 made to the top without issues, even if it does not contain internal fan ;-)

the s18 cooling is amazing. So amazing, that it allowed kingsong's "professional" assembly line to apply both a heat pad and heat paste, paste over the pad, for god's sake. Yet, it still rocks. 

Edited August 29, 2021 by enaon

[Lukasz]

1 hour ago, enaon said:

I think jack said it is sherman like, you can lift it up from the front bumper, and a hand grab under the seat at the back. 

"sherman like" carrying mode (with two hands) is a must with so damn heavy sherman, but with all other wheels it is rather preferred to be possible to carry it in one hand up the stairs. For effective city use It is important that the transfer from carrying to walking to riding shall take minimum amount of time.

[itsmark]

5 minutes ago, Lukasz said:

"sherman like" carrying mode (with two hands) is a must with so damn heavy sherman, but with all other wheels it is rather preferred to be possible to carry it in one hand up the stairs. For effective city use It is important that the transfer from carrying to walking to riding shall take minimum amount of time.

I'm pretty sure the projected weight of the S20 given by @Jack King Song is about 35kg. Same as the Sherman.

[enaon]

5 minutes ago, Lukasz said:

"sherman like" carrying mode (with two hands) is a must with so damn heavy sherman, but with all other wheels it is rather preferred to be possible to carry it in one hand up the stairs. For effective city use It is important that the transfer from carrying to walking to riding shall take minimum amount of time.

I agree. I think that if indeed it is in the sub 30kgr area, then a handle like the s18 will do, even if it is positioned in the front. if it is on the heavy side, maybe two hands are best.

We will find a way to mod it, we have to mod something, maybe the handle being not perfect is for the best.  

[enaon]

3 minutes ago, itsmark said:

I'm pretty sure the projected weight of the S20 given by @Jack King Song is about 35kg. Same as the Sherman.

that is what jack said, but my s18 with 4p batteries and some reinforcements and a heavy tire, is ~29. The s20 will have 40 batteries more(2.6 kilos), less metal on the sliders, and a bit more weight on suspension and motor. My guess is that there is no reason to go over 31, the official specs give it at 28. 

[Lukasz]

4 minutes ago, itsmark said:

I'm pretty sure the projected weight of the S20 given by @Jack King Song is about 35kg. Same as the Sherman.

My modified S18XL with 1440Wh and all mods weight is below 28kg. We shall add around 2 kg more for more cells, bit more for heavier damper+spring, 1 kg extra for heavier tire, and 1 kg extra for heavier motor. but we can possibly subtract a bit from plastic parts and clever weight shaving. So this wheel can be below 32 kg in my opinion.  

[itsmark]

4 minutes ago, enaon said:

that is what jack said, but my s18 with 4p batteries and some reinforcements and a heavy tire, is ~29. The s20 will have 40 batteries more(2.6 kilos), less metal on the sliders, and a bit more weight on suspension and motor. My guess is that there is no reason to go over 31, the official specs give it at 28. 

And their website says 35kg... so yeah, I'll guess we'll just have to wait and see. https://www.kingsongs20.com/copy-2-of-faq

edit: I hope its lighter than that

Edited August 30, 2021 by itsmark

[enaon]

7 minutes ago, Lukasz said:

My modified S18XL with 1440Wh and all mods weight is below 28kg. We shall add around 2 kg more for more cells, bit more for heavier damper+spring, 1 kg extra for heavier tire, and 1 kg extra for heavier motor. but we can possibly subtract a bit from plastic parts and clever weight shaving. So this wheel can be below 32 kg in my opinion.  

they will use 40 more cells that we do, 2.6 kgr. The motor will have small bearings, I expect the weight to be of minor difference. The tire will most probably be a reinforced tube as always, not a real tire, so it will be of less weight that a pirelli. The sliders will be lighter, no need for double sliders with the hollow motor I think. the shock will be heavier. But yes, we agree, I say 31 max, lets see

Edited August 30, 2021 by enaon

[enaon]

9 minutes ago, itsmark said:

And their website says 35kg... so yeah, I'll guess we'll just have to wait and see. https://www.kingsongs20.com/copy-2-of-faq

edit: I hope its lighter than that

nice I did't see that , it was 28 on the pdf I had.

Edited August 30, 2021 by enaon

[mrelwood]

@ShanesPlanet, the S20 uses 21700 cells instead of the 18650 on the 18XL. They weigh ~65g instead of ~45g each. The cells for the S20 weigh ~7.8kg, ~2.4kg more than for the 18XL.

1 hour ago, enaon said:

The tire will most probably be a reinforced tube as always, not a real tire, so it will be of less weight that a pirelli.

What do you mean by this, how is it not a real tire? Out of the three tires they consider, at least the C-186 is just a regular motorcycle tire, designed/suitable for tubeless install.

 

1 hour ago, enaon said:

But yes, we agree, I say 31 max, lets see

Jack KingSong’s 35kg estimate is surely a more educated guess than yours though… They do have some experience with an early prototype after all.

 The spec sheet also mentions USB charging, while the newer specs (or was it the FAQ) say that there is no USB port. I wouldn’t put much weight on the .pdf speed sheet.

[Paul A]

People can lift an Euc upwards into a car, with only grab points at the top of a tall, heavy wheel?

Edited August 30, 2021 by Paul A

[Electric Dreams]

In regards to the suspension

Fox shocks is undoubtedly the best available, Rockshox is also very good however not suitable for EUCs.

It’s perfect for good or poor asphalt, not for off-roading. The shortcoming is that it’s prone to bottoming out, it’s easy to hit the bottom when riding on big obstacles, especially for heavier riders.

Although the DNM240-75 is an entry level coil suspension, the 750lb spring is suitable for most riders however for heavier riders we do suggest upgrading to a 1000lb spring if you do want to attempt the extreme.

Many of the shocks available for the S20 Eagle are basically some of the best on the market, with all adjustable compression and rebound dampening.

The adjustable compression dampening is the key to the limit, the blue knob can increase the limit of the S20 allowing it to take on a larger impact. If heavier riders are experiencing bottoming out, there’s a high probability for you to resolve this by adjusting the blue compression dampening. In the same way, light riders can switch to 550lbs spring if they feel that the shock absorber is too hard. You are able to change just the spring and not the entire shock.

Lots of suspensions are readily available on the market as long as they meet the 240-75 or 240-76.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Jack King Song

[itsmark]

@Jack King Song Is the shock that comes with the S20 the DNM RCP-2S? I can't find the DNM GR-27RC as listed on the website.

[Electric Dreams]

3 hours ago, itsmark said:

@Jack King Song Is the shock that comes with the S20 the DNM RCP-2S? I can't find the DNM GR-27RC as listed on the website.

yes sorry, DNM RCP-2S. We previously looked at KKE BA-27RC

[Rawnei]

13 minutes ago, Jack King Song said:

yes sorry, DNM RCP-2S. We previously looked at KKE BA-27RC

750lbs spring, roughly which suitable rider weights do you think that translates to? What constitutes a "heavy" rider? I've got an S20 pre-orderd and I'm around 95kg geared up, do you think another spring is something I will have to consider?

Edit: I plan to jump it in Skateparks and what not so there will be substantial impact (I already do this on my MSP without shocks).

Edited August 30, 2021 by Rawnei

[.....]

I think I'll wait to see a REAL wheel on a REAL scale. Dont we recall how the published weight of the s18 also got heavier as it neared release? So much thought and energy wasted in even reading spec sheets and listening to rumors. Yeah, its rumors until it's reality. I'm betting its a 5lb wheel that can go 100mph for 200miles with music, cruise control, cup holder, seat, suspension that rivals ANY motocross bike and can charge in 2 minutes by simply rubbing a piece of felt on it quickly.  Yup, that wheel is totally real, its just in prototype/render stage. Absolutely no different than the end result will be, I promise...

OR..... we could simply just wait to see how it winds up. Wouldnt it be so wierd if we all kept our money until the product was offered? Shouldnt pre-order customers be called 'financial backers' and be earning interest and/or stock in the company? As far as I'm concerned I'm owed an apology at the very least, for borrowing my money to finance a wheel that was nothing like it was represented prior to release. I'm waiting.....

I surmise I'll be waiting until at least spring, to see how this all REALLY pans out. Anyone else feel like making the company prove themselves to earn that bread? Yeah, that track record has taken a hit, you aint fooling me twice. I can wait... Just to be nice to everyone, I'll stay out of this thread until its no longer fiction at the very least.

Edited August 30, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Electric Dreams]

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

750lbs spring, roughly which suitable rider weights do you think that translates to? What constitutes a "heavy" rider? I've got an S20 pre-orderd and I'm around 95kg geared up, do you think another spring is something I will have to consider?

Edit: I plan to jump it in Skateparks and what not so there will be substantial impact (I already do this on my MSP without shocks).

For example I'm a 86-89kg rider, depends if I had my dose of fried chicken that day. But I would be opting for 1000lbs. We had riders who were 70kg and they felt the 750lbs was better. I would say give it a shot first before upgrading.