INMOTION V12 (pre-release)

[AtlasP]

8 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

Edit: just to add, according to this list (i cant verify its exact accuracy) literallly the fastest wheel in the world in 2018 was the inmotion v10f, which would be considered a childs wheel now just over 2 years later https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=5C7F7C96B9CB240D!453580&ithint=file%2cxlsx&authkey=!AH72KLYXambSLHc

Author here: I'm afraid that's a very incorrect interpretation of the (accurate) data provided in my table, and I would appreciate if you remove your claim that my table states such a thing, which it absolutely does not. (Although in the future I'd be happy to answer any questions about its contents/their correct interpretation.)

As is clearly explained in the table notes, the table is focused on providing a comparison of models/configurations currently in production and widely for sale in western markets, and is NOT a complete historical record. There are lots of models/configurations that were available for example in 2018 that are no longer available/have been replaced by newer revisions/models/configurations, and which (the older revisions/models/configurations) have been culled/removed as they are no longer relevant to comparing the set of models/configurations currently available.

Likewise the 'Year Released' field is always updated to reflect the release year of the current/latest major revision. (So release year of such-and-such wheel 'V2' is that of when the 'V2' released, since the entry is for the 'V2' specifically--it says nothing [nor does it claim to] about the V1/any prior incarnations.) So a number of wheels may list a current 'year released' in the past year or two, which is true for their latest major revision, but in fact the original model was released years earlier. This best-serves the project's explicitly-named objective.

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by AtlasP

[Ádám Szitás]

45 minutes ago, Espen R said:

My Sherman blew it's motherboard because of some blockage right after I turned the wheel on. Protecting a motherboard from this kind of overload issue isn't a hard task to ask for, since other EUC manufacturers already have five so.

Smart BMS have been around for years, and the fact that my Sherm has a simple BMS scares me. 3200WH is a lot of energy if something goes wrong, and it is very expensive to replace.

Ford have had many recalls for implementing new technology too soon, while EUC manufacturers refuse to implement existing technology. A combustion engined car is also way more complicated than a EUC, so I don't think it's a fair comparison there either.

Even a EUC fire can be claimed to be user error, if someone charges right after a hard ride, but I think safety features that prevents that from happening is the right approach, and I do think it is in the best interest of both user and manufacturers. Overlean cut outs should also be impossible, even though they almost always are user error.

It's a silly thing that we are willing to accept fairly grim consequences because of user error when it is far more logical that we should demand safety features instead.

I always find it funny when people who buy gotway (yeah veteran is gotway too) complain about stuff like safety, it has been like this for many years, I don't know why people still expect to go differently this time.

[AtlasP]

8 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

Edit2: this has been shown to not be an accurate representation of release dates. If anyone knows which wheel was the first to hit 35 mph+ i am interested 

*sigh* This edit is even more misleading and false. Every release date listed is completely accurate/accurately represented. The table simply does not include entries for models/configurations/revisions that are no longer produced/being sold by the major resellers. (So for example the Tesla V2 was released when the table says it was, the table simply doesn't contain such info [nor does it claim to] for the Tesla V1 which is no longer relevant. Or the RS & MSPro were released when the table says they were, the table simply doesn't contain data [nor does it claim to] on the prior incarnations such as the MSX or MSuper which are no longer relevant.) That doesn't make the release dates listed inaccurate or inaccurately represented.

(To answer the original question, there were a number of 100v Gotway wheels in 2018 pretty much all of which could at least hit or exceed 35mph--and all of which have since been supplanted by newer models/versions.)

Edited January 31, 2021 by AtlasP

[Ádám Szitás]

7 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

this has been shown to not be an accurate representation of release dates. If anyone knows which wheel was the first to hit 35 mph+ i am interested 

The first 84v msuper x was released in 2018 and it could already achieve speeds of 35mph and then came the 100v wheels.

Eh Atlas. I only see the edit now  

Edited January 31, 2021 by Ádám Szitás

[Unventor]

I think this is more for a different thread that for an upcoming specific model from a brand you hardly touch. It is not me saying this discussion is bad but it isn't directly related to the thread Imho. So for people interested in the V12, this just becomes noise in the thread. 

[AtlasP]

33 minutes ago, Unventor said:

I think this is more for a different thread that for an upcoming specific model from a brand you hardly touch. It is not me saying this discussion is bad but it isn't directly related to the thread Imho. So for people interested in the V12, this just becomes noise in the thread. 

"From a brand [I] hardly touch"? I'm a self-avowed IM fanboi, lol.

If he corrects/removes the erroneous statements I will gladly remove my comments which would be no longer necessary. Otherwise if left unchallenged his false statements unjustly serve to undermine the reputation of my project.

Edited January 31, 2021 by AtlasP

[Mango]

If 16” tire is confirmed, this V12 looks to be a worthy successor to the V10f, and not a Sherman competitor. Looks like Inmotion is playing it safe, again.

[GoGeorgeGo]

34 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

*sigh* This is the most ignorant & misleading edit I've ever seen. Every release date listed is completely accurate/accurately represented. The table simply does not include entries for models/configurations/revisions that are no longer produced/being sold by the major resellers. (So for example the Tesla V2 was released when the table says it was, the table simply doesn't contain such info [nor does it claim to] for the Tesla V1 which is no longer relevant. Or the RS & MSPro were released when the table says they were, the table simply doesn't contain data [nor does it claim to] on the prior incarnations such as the MSX or MSuper which are no longer relevant.) That doesn't make the release dates listed inaccurate or inaccurately represented. Ignorant nonsense like this which is clearly false is /maddening/ and should be removed.

(To answer the original question, there were a number of 100v Gotway wheels in 2018 pretty much all of which could at least hit or exceed 35mph--and all of which have since been supplanted by newer models/versions.)

Im leaving it because i dont know what exactly it is you want lol i edited it to make it clear i was incorrect and asked a question in return. Sorry if you interpret my mistake as some form of attack on you or your work.

Thanks for answering! Had the right year but the wrong unit. Just goes to show how recent the jump to 35 mph was

Sorry to take the thread off topic was just in the flow of conversation

Edited January 31, 2021 by GoGeorgeGo

[gon2fast]

If it is going to be a 16" then I really do not want pay more than 2K USD unless the battery configuration is large. IMHO looking like a scaled down V11 without suspension which will make many happy.

[Espen R]

9 hours ago, Ádám Szitás said:

I always find it funny when people who buy gotway (yeah veteran is gotway too) complain about stuff like safety, it has been like this for many years, I don't know why people still expect to go differently this time.

Now we are getting a new wheel that is claimed to have a smarter BMS, and that’s great. Will it also totally prevent cut-outs?

In light of the new V12 we were discussing the development of EUC’s and the importance of implementing basic safety features that most EUC manufactures have ignored. In that contexts you find it funny that Gotway/Veteran users complain about safety features. Do you think that is fair? Are we somehow excluded from the safety discussion? That is a very divisive statement in my book.

Doesn’t it benefit the entire EUC family that even the most primitive manufactures catch up to Innotion and Kingsong? And, isn’t it about time that we stand our ground and demand that all of them eliminate all the user error over lean cut-outs, the user error charging a hot wheel that causes a fire, and also demand a service friendly durable case??     

[UniVehje]

I think the Nikola+ and the 16X deserve a competitor from InMotion. It’s a good size tire for a lot of usage and many people like it. I wouldn’t categorize wheels by tire size too much. Bigger is not always better. 16x3” wheels are good climbers and have responsive feel to them.
 

However, as a long distance enthusiast, I’m still more interested in a V11F with larger battery,  suspension and 18x3” tire. I hope that wheel is also coming. 
 

But who knows. Maybe the V12 changes my mind. Or maybe I just need a second wheel. Still interested  to see what’s coming. Hey @Inmotion Global, how about some teaser pictures to keep the thread on topic? 

[Unventor]

At this point there is only limited suggestions what Inmotion intend to do with the V12. Each model will normally have a target group in mind. What you are seeing happening is Inmotion started to move from a last mile device to a fully function transportation and increasing comfort , range and speed. 

As goes for safety you could perceive increased speed as safety, but if people ride at the very limit I don't think that is wise. Any spike at top speed is a bane of how EUC works. Getting them at higher speeds means in most cases so much strain on all components. This is where the riders understand and accepting the limits comes into play. 

So back to the V12, we really need some more details, before we know how it can be used. By this I mean what makes it different to what already is on the market. But what is clear to me is that Inmotion are challenging why people that bought a V8 and now want more should pick a different brand because Inmotion did not made wheels for range or speed. If we look in that regard I am very happy with my V11. I am not looking for a non suspension wheel. But that is not the same as many other riders have my needs/wants. 

Like @mrelwoodsaid we often buy a wheel for what we want, but sometimes we get something that can do more and this widen our perspective. I think Inmotion goal with V12 to make people aware you don'r have to pick a different brand if you want more speed and range. When people then decide for more comfort, that is where we see V13 or what they decide to call the next wheel. 

Just like when Henry Ford did a survey if people wanted a horse wagon vs an automobile, the horse wagon won, because people at the time did nit understand what difference a automobile would do and mean for them. Same thing happened when Mercedes ask customer if a self steering and controlled car would need a steering wheel? all customers said yes, as we are not there yet for people to grasp what a totally self controlled car without driver input would mean. We still see the same thing when it comes to suspension. that is why the V12 is very important to Inmotion. Not to loose customers to other brands while they keep developing better suspension implementation. The V11 is good imho, but it is 1st gen. 

I am not really looking to buy a V12, as I have a very hard time to buy an EUC that doesn't have suspension. But I still find it interesting to see what Inmotion have done to their next wheel as that will merge into the 2. gen suspension wheel.  

[Unventor]

22 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

I think the Nikola+ and the 16X deserve a competitor from InMotion. It’s a good size tire for a lot of usage and many people like it. I wouldn’t categorize wheels by tire size too much. Bigger is not always better. 16x3” wheels are good climbers and have responsive feel to them.
 

However, as a long distance enthusiast, I’m still more interested in a V11F with larger battery,  suspension and 18x3” tire. I hope that wheel is also coming. 
 

But who knows. Maybe the V12 changes my mind. Or maybe I just need a second wheel. Still interested  to see what’s coming. Hey @Inmotion Global, how about some teaser pictures to keep the thread on topic? 

That is a brilliant way of putting things. What I were thinking partly when I were typing my previous post. ( you submitted this while I were typing) 

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

If the V12 is a 16" then I don't care if it has a 5000W motor, 24S8P, goes 120km/h from 100% - 0% battery and only weighs 20kg.

I would never buy a 16" wheel again.  

[mrelwood]

 

19 hours ago, Espen R said:

Overlean cut outs should also be impossible, even though they almost always are user error.

While I agree with your other points on EUC safety, there are a few aspects the above comment doesn’t take in consideration.

1. An EUC that couldn’t be over-leaned would have to have an infinite amount of power available at all available speeds. Hence such battery, motor, or controller can never exist.

2. An extreme version of an overlean is a loss of grip. For it to be impossible as well, the EUC would have to have a tire with an infinite amount of grip on all surfaces. Such tire can never exist.

When we were riding EUCs with 170Wh batteries and 500W motors, we hoped for more power so it wouldn’t be overleaned as easily. We now have 6 times the motor power and 20 times the battery capacity, yet overleans remain a concern. The EUC simply cannot prevent the rider from overleaning, only the rider can.

 Luckily there are things that an EUC can do to make overleans difficult enough.

[Finn Bjerke]

"Comment below to share with us  what will you expect for the V12."

Fast as hell, very long range, Big wide tyre, better build than the compitition, no bearings problems, easy acces to tire change. NO hollow motor (?) 

An Inmotion v11F with the above mentionend features + suspension would be wonderfull. Suspension is safer, more fun and prevents aches from feet, knees, hips and lower back.  


 

[Kekafuch]

I think for sure there will be a V11F with more battery and some updates.

V12 is sounding like a 16X/Nikola competitor. Safe choice for a conservative company. There was an interview on youtube where they hint the next wheel will have speed and endurance but quickly retracted that it won’t be at the Veteran Sherman level. 
 

The interesting bits will be any software advancements and modular options. Traction control? Braking assists. Power pads are here to stay, surprised no company has structural design that includes versatile mounting points for pads. Battery being modular would be and interesting option. Thin side packs for playing at the skatepark. Thick side packs for city cruising. Add the top pack for long range. 

 

 

[littlelio]

Inmotion is famous for its product quality and consistency.

I hope there will be a product with more agressive setup, i.e. strong speeding up from 0 to 40km/h. The absolute max speed doesn't matter too much because the rider needs to be crazy enough to high more than 60km/h, but the motor stability is for sure, and no cut-out.

Maximum distance is related to lots of factors, so count the a high cruising speed in. Do not tell me I can run it for 200km but at 15km/h... come on, for long distance trip, of course we will use it FAST.

Water-proof is not a priority since I don't think riding in rain is a good idea anyway.

Bluetooth speaker is not important, either.

Suspension is welcomed, although it can be hard to get something new.

Well, we are still limited by current technology about battery so it will be heavy for strong-performanced machine. I really wish that it could be so light and small enough to put into my backpack...

[FullTilt]

If you had to buy a mid-sized non-suspension wheel today, what would be the top choice given a decent sample size of enthusiasts, and what might that imply?

Setting aside the oft-mentioned Veteran (which might be disqualified due to weight and size for the category), I'd say the true comp is the MS(X,P)/RS, with speed being the main reason for its popularity, so much so people are willing to sacrifice build-quality and integrity of electronics/battery.

I think Inmotion build quality and safety will be a given, and if indeed no suspension, the thing they must maximize to the best of their ability is speed, really.

If it were up to me, I'd make it an 18" wheel. With even the suspension wheels being >18", riding fast on a 16" wheel today might prove a squirrel-ly experience. And being without suspension, weight savings can be spent on the slight size increase wisely.

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by FullTilt

[PatrickD]

I still love the weight and compactness of EUCs, and can get around fairly well staying around or below 20mph on sidewalks, paths, and small streets.  I'm glad the V11 has brought more speed for those who like it, but I would like a suspension wheel that has the EUC portability.  I wouldn't mind something like a V10F with suspension and a few extra pounds.  I certainly wouldn't mind a V8F with suspension and maybe with a few hundred more WH also.  With the extra battery, the 21mph should last for a while, and could sustain >15mph for most of the distance many would ride, with the weight of a V10/F or a little less, and the comfort of suspension. 

For bigger and faster, we still have GW and KS.

Edit: This is probably obvious, but I like Inmotion wheels in general, like the feel, the quality, and all my wheels have been Inmotion.  So maybe my suggestion is not appropriate for the V12 if their concept is supposed to be a competitive large wheel.  My suggestion is, however, the type of wheel that would get me to upgrade (even if cost wasn't an issue).

Edit again:  I read the above posts, and it will be performance and no suspension.  So maybe the above could be considered for the V13/14/15?  

Edited February 1, 2021 by PatrickD

[PLEASE_DELETE]

I think 16x3 is a perfect wheel size (I have a V10 and Nik+, lol).  I'd love to see something with more safety features.  50km/h safe cruising speed (so I can feel safe cruising at my 30-35km/h).  Easy replacement of "wear items" such as batteries & tires are my #1 wishlist item, as well as better BMS.  

My v10 was my first wheel.  I stll ride it regularly and have no intention of selling it even though my Nik+ has quickly caught up on mileage.  It takkes me a week of riding to go through one charge on my Nik+.  My typical rides are 8-20km and not usually more.

Edited February 1, 2021 by /Dev/Null

[Kekafuch]

If LeaperKim Veteran is in fact a small exile of Gotway Engineers, InMotion would likely want them to succeed in further disrupting Gotway’s business. Let the Sherman fullfill the needs of the enthusiast which might also be a riskier segment anyways. 

InMotion could just move into that market when the time is right or they see a segment worth capturing. In the mean time, they focus on the bread and butter and continue taking over the mainstream activity and building up repeat users. 
 

or maybe they end up making scooters  

[Jonny727272]

I would love to see a 16" wheel with 1,800wh+ of battery and no suspension. I'd be down to get a competitor to the 16X but with the Inmotion level of quality. 

I would also like to see some of the creature comforts they put in the V11 come to the V12. Things like the headlight fixture and a real taillight. An improved kickstand would be pretty nice too, but not a necessity if it's just rubbish and going to add to cost.

And the biggest pipedream would be to see it come with spiked pedals or the hex holes style. Probably won't ever happen, but it would be cool.

[MR BRAD]

“And the biggest pipedream would be to see it come with spiked pedals or the hex holes style. Probably won't ever happen, but it would be cool”...

I hope not @Jonny727272, the pedal idea is a great one and I’m with you on the kickstand. I’m perfectly willing to sacrifice a kickstand 

[Wren]

On 1/28/2021 at 11:52 PM, Scottie888 said:

For sure, an MTB or better yet, an eMTB is a awesome offroad toy & given the right parameters, its fun & great exercise as well. That said, don't sell the S18 short. Despite its 1st batch suspension deficits & power/range limitations, its burrowed itself in to be my fav wheel. It's done some technical MTB trails & I've been limited only by my own skills & a knobby tire. I've also dumped it more than I can count & its stood up better than I thought.

Let me know if you make it to my neck of the woods this summer. There's a huge gnarly MTB (Nose Hill) park (& skateboard park as well) a few miles from me that'll give you a good for you for the money. Maybe we can do some EUC rides on the bike paths by the Bow as well.

Sure, that sounds great! I'd love to try out the S18 and see what it's like to ride. Checking out Nose Hill park seems fun too, I've been to Fish Creek with some friends but not to Nose Hill.