INMOTION V12 (pre-release)

[Inmotion Global]

Mod edit July 2021: With the V12 now released, a new V12 topic has been split off this one, so you can find reliable post-release information about the V12 there, and continue the discussion there or in your own V12 topics.

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INMOTION V12 is coming soon? Rumor?

No, it's not a rumor. Our engineers are still working hard on the development. We can definitely expect it before June. 

Comment below to share with us  what will you expect for the V12.

Edited July 29, 2021 by meepmeepmayer

[UniVehje]

Allright! Now we can get the yearly rumour hype going again! Spring is coming!

My biggest expectation is to get the V12 under my feet before summer. Please try to hurry for the riding season. I sucks to wait over the summer just to get it when the season is already almost over. 

For the features, I'm just looking for more range and I'd like it to have suspension. A V11F is all I was hoping for, but V12 sounds just as good. I'm expecting a great looking performance wheel. Don't forget quality!

[Halig]

I suppose it is relative to its homologation with the new European standard EN17128:2020. If not, at least in Europe, you will not be able to sell any type of EUC.

Until now, the only request is the CE certificate, but the current one is the same as for a coffee maker. The new CE certificate will have to follow that standard. And by the way, it will have to be "irreversibly" limited to 25 km/h.

I suppose they have taken this into account and that is why they are developing the V12 model. A more "universal" model, without suspension, suitable for more people economically and with less possibility of homologation problems.

[shibbles]

I'm hoping this v12 will compete with gotway in performance and battery. hopefully it doesn't cost 50 million dollars.

[null]

Development process is way to far on V12 for any of our wishes to have much impact, but for the future I wish for:

- An answer to 18XL / MSX+, a balanced 18x3 allrounder, compact, no suspensions, 1500-2000Wh, good ergonomics and weather proofing.
- A 14x3 beefy city wheel, basically a V8 on steroids, reasonably compact, 800-1000Wh, well under 20Kg.

edit: A charge socket for the future! (Allow charge at batteries 0.5C speed)

Edited January 27, 2021 by null

[Espen R]

If you could deliver a model that had options when it comes to battery size, so that you could cover the range needs of everyone from the casual city rider to the hard-core long range off-road rider, then I would be interested. A durable and service friendly case would also be most welcomed, and so would also a none suspension version of the wheel. My preference when it comes to size is between 18 – 22 inch, and anything more or less than that is not interesting to me or anyone in my family. The light and nimble V10F is still a perfect 16" wheel in my book, but we are now fully devoted to long off-road rides with our EUC's, and there size matters.

I personally prefer torque over speed, but I live very well with the laziness of my Sherman. What I no longer can’t live without is its range, adjustable light and the off-road tire, so if you’re going to persuade me to spend 2-3000€ on a new wheel, you’ll have to deliver on those points.

My dream wheel is basically a Sherman with more torque and a more modern safety-oriented motherboard. If that is the Inmotion V12, then I wouldn’t hesitate to buy:) For the future of EUC’s, it is important that you deliver on quality and safety.

[Unventor]

For your information @Inmotion Globalhere is a thread related to this one that you might gather input from too.

I do however thing if you were to state what target group you make a wheel for and ask for input would give you more details and specefics. It is very little that has slipped out on the V12 for now. 

Another way to gather input is ranking 10ish different thing to list in the order a rider would prioritise these. 

[Tryptych]

Why doesn't InMotion fix the V11 bearing issues before they move on to the V12?

Hundreds of people are having problems with their V11 bearings while InMotion tries very very hard to ignore them on the official Telegram chat and on these Forums. All batches seem to be affected: 1,2,3 and onward. Does InMotion really think their V12 sales are not going to be impacted by this unprofessional behavior?

[Asphalt]

14 hours ago, Inmotion Global said:

Comment below to share with us  what will you expect for the V12.

I like the new annual release cycle.

I hope that the June release date is a real consumer-ready date, and not a pre-beta release for YouTubers that requires another 6 months to QA, recall, and fix production issues.

V12 Expectations:

• 60 kph stable top speed that can be achieved from 100% to 25% battery.
• Powerful braking that won't cause wobbles - looking for overall good weight balancing and stability.
• Weather-resistant design, allowing for daily commuting in rainy climates - without having to replace bearings or worrying about control boards and batteries catching fire due to ingress.
• Protective battery case
• Easily accessible trolley handle that won't fly out during a crash and supports seated riding
• Headlight that is bright enough for night riding, yet can be adjusted so as to not blind pedestrians and other road users.
• Taillight that gets brighter when braking.
• Onboard display
• Kick stand
• Fender

V12 Desirable Features:

• Silent mode - ability to turn off start-up and shut-down beeps and chattiness.
• Smart BMS showing the state of every cell.
• Onboard menu for adjusting riding parameters
• Easy maintenance - single (or zero) tool access for tire changes
• Ability to tweak performance curves for riders of different weight and riding style.
• Adjustable side tilt cut-off angle.
• Built-in charger

V12 Acceptable Omissions:

• Disco lights
• Speakers
• Suspension

[Unventor]

24 minutes ago, Tryptych said:

Why doesn't InMotion fix the V11 bearing issues before they move on to the V12?

Hundreds of people are having problems with their V11 bearings while InMotion tries very very hard to ignore them on the official Telegram chat and on these Forums. All batches seem to be affected: 1,2,3 and onward. Does InMotion really think their V12 sales are not going to be impacted by this unprofessional behavior?

Let me add little different perspective on this as it might be as simple as you posted here. 

I used to be a moderator and due to that I read a lot of different stories and opinions that I have collected and forwarded since now more than a year back now. I forwarded both my own views but also things I might not agree upon but that had several people that posted this. It started out as a few posts then at some point it was discussion on ever 3 days for a long period. This process made me vomit to buying 1st batch V11 even before April 2020. Paided deposit by April and the rest later (even about 475$ for air shipping too). So while some think I work for Inmotion and I got my V11 for free, I can say that is not the case. I have however had a lot of great contact with information and from different departments. 

So why is this relevant? Because I can say I have resently had a much harder time getting a reply from the people I normally contact at Inmotion. Right now they are working very very hard on both V11 and the upcoming V12. The posts see today (in my time zone) from Inmotion care are I reached out to them. 

Now I had to resign the moderator role as private life and work under covid-19 meant I couldn't commit to the time I used here as a moderator. And today was just one of these days when everything just happens at the same time. So I couldn't get much details as it was very clear that my contact had limited time. Its taken over a week to get a reply on some questions. 

So I am not on Inmotion headquarters so I can't say for sure, but from my interactions I am pretty sure Inmotion are not ignoring that some customers had to get their motors replaced (and that is not cheap btw). 

But different team do different parts so a V12 is unlikely to take much resources from the people working on improving the V11. But like I posted on telegram different regions have different cultures. I work for an Asian company and I have had a different interactions with Asian (mostly Japanese or Chinese) companies. The communication are different and the way of thinking too. So what we are used to in eu or US as customers are not necessarily that streight forward from an Asian point of view. 

A very common thing is while working on a problem they are often quiet until they have a fix and that is tested extensively. Looking at the action already taken in the attempt to fix bearing problems I don't find it odd we hear little from Inmotion right now. 

I am sure we will hear more from Inmotion "soon" but we have Chinese New year coming up and that is like 2 weeks of business shotdown so I doubt we hear much until after that. I forgot the dates but you can Google it. 

That said I recognize that some are not as lucky as me (I still have a fully function Z bearing despite all season/weather riding). I do hope we all get more info and solution so less people get a bearing problem. The sooner the better but sometimes things take longer to fix despite being annoying. 

I got a tip today though. It seems to minimize the risk of bearing problems if you store the V11 (when it is wet) in upright position, eg. resting on its stand vs having laying on its side. I don't recall having my V11 on the side unless topping up air in suspension or tire. But I never did that when the V11 was wet. 

Sorry long post but it is down to sharing why I view the effort Inmotion are doing from a different perspective. 

[Tryptych]

 

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

That said I recognize that some are not as lucky as me (I still have a fully function Z bearing despite all season/weather riding). I do hope we all get more info and solution so less people get a bearing problem. The sooner the better but sometimes things take longer to fix despite being annoying. 

I got a tip today though. It seems to minimize the risk of bearing problems if you store the V11 (when it is wet) in upright position, eg. resting on its stand vs having laying on its side. I don't recall having my V11 on the side unless topping up air in suspension or tire. But I never did that when the V11 was wet. 

Sorry long post but it is down to sharing why I view the effort Inmotion are doing from a different perspective. 

Yes, it was a very long post. You've already made it clear in Telegram chat that you don't have any affiliation with InMotion and your not qualified to speak for them.

Regarding your opinion about the "upright postition" preventing bearing issues, I'm going to call BS on that: I've never stored my V11 on it's side and I doubt very many other people who have bearing issues have done this either (other than Duff!). It has a kickstand.  I can tell you with 100% certainty bearing issues happen regardless of how you store the V11 - mine happened within 20 min of getting the V11 wet for the first time. A reminder that WrongWay had his bearing issues after 2000km ridden, and you may still get yours. Don't be so defensive on InMotion's behalf - let them speak for themselves.

The question (to InMotion) remains:

Why don't you fix the V11 bearing issues before you move on to the V12?

 

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Tryptych

[.....]

18 minutes ago, Tryptych said:

Why don't you fix the V11 bearing issues before you move on to the V12?

 

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[null]

It is rude to scream @Tryptych , your voicing doesn’t have any priority over everyone else here, especially when you are off topic.

To address your concern, I’m sure Inmotion is able to work on more than one thing at a time.

Edited January 28, 2021 by null

[Mrd777]

Why does it feel that June will actually equate to an October arrival?   I’d rather Inmotion tell us a later date and surprise us with an earlier delivery.  Be realistic and honest with us.

[Unventor]

12 minutes ago, Mrd777 said:

Why does it feel that June will actually equate to an October arrival?   I’d rather Inmotion tell us a later date and surprise us with an earlier delivery.  Be realistic and honest with us.

Now I share what I know at this time. They are not using new parts like suspension in the V12. Apparently feedback has been shared from some tester or will be very soon. Also the V12 has been postponed until now due to V11 take much more time to getting refinement and production up. So sofar the information I hög is they are on track with V12 and so far in the process that there should not be any delays. 

On the other hand things could change both to an earlier or later launch. I know very very little of the specs as right now those that know something are under NDA. 

[Tryptych]

36 minutes ago, null said:

It is rude to scream @Tryptych , your voicing doesn’t have any priority over everyone else here, especially when you are off topic.

To address your concern, I’m sure Inmotion is able to work on more than one thing at a time.

I'm not screaming, I'm using a large font because InMotion is trying soooo hard to ignore this subject.  And unless they are not using hollow motors anymore, it is completely on-topic to discuss InMotion's ongoing bearing problems.

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Tryptych

[Mango]

V11 is last years news. ZzzzZZZZZZzz. Excited and looking forward to what the next wheel will be.

V12 will have to be a Sherman competitor, straight up. Any wheel size/range below Sherman has already been covered by other companies well enough. I'd like to see...

20"-22" knobby tire
3200WH battery, or larger
As balanced and as compact
~70km/h top speed
Daytime running lights, adjustable-angle main light
Honeycomb pedals, standard
Flat, boxy design so users can add power pads and their accessories.
Easy maintenance and tear down. V11 just over-engineered.

NO SUSPENSION. Just adds too much complexity and weight for tire size of tire.

Killer features would be 20amp charging, water-resistance, and the typical Inmotion build quality.

Clearly Inmotion was rocked when they saw that there IS a market for $3,000 USD wheels in the 30-35KG weight class. Inmotion needs to think outside the box and come out with a crazy-specced wheel. 

[Wren]

Hi, I've been looking to get a second wheel but what's on the market right now is not quite what i'm looking for (though it comes close). There are two different wheels i'd like to see:

1. A smaller high torque wheel built tough for doing tricks with in the park that I can jump and crash it without worrying about it falling apart.

2. An offroad/trail focused wheel with further improvements to suspension. I'm willing to pay a premium for a wheel in this space that has a greater focus on product quality and safety.

[Scottie888]

3 hours ago, Wren said:

Hi, I've been looking to get a second wheel but what's on the market right now is not quite what i'm looking for (though it comes close). There are two different wheels i'd like to see:

1. A smaller high torque wheel built tough for doing tricks with in the park that I can jump and crash it without worrying about it falling apart.

2. An offroad/trail focused wheel with further improvements to suspension. I'm willing to pay a premium for a wheel in this space that has a greater focus on product quality and safety.

Unfortunately, there's no such no worry crash worthy wheel as of yet. However I do have the MCM5v2 & if you don't mind the looks, you can wrap it up with hd foam (or similar) & it'll pretty well fit your #1 criteria. You might have to diy some type of jump pads though.

I have the S18 & while I can't guarantee satisfaction on the "focus on quality & safety" part, I can easily say it satisfies the "offroad/trail focused" dept, at least for me. & I have dropped it innumerable times & its still ticking plus I've yet to do anything to the suspension if it means anything. IMO it's also likely the most crash worthy wheel due to its lack of plastic although I had to duct tape some plastic from ripping out & have lost the rear mudguard.

Seems you & I have very similar objectives. Where in AB you at?

Edited January 28, 2021 by Scottie888

[EUChristian]

Knew this thread would be fun

[gon2fast]

- Protective measures around the shell like the Sherman rollbar

- More realistic dev/build/test/market solution. Why do you need to rush it (sorry to those with an early Summer)? June would be great, but how about another month or more to truly test and resolve the little issues (or major issues) and expose it to the elements. Maybe another month to produce the wheel to build up back stock to satisfy a larger first/second wave of customers?

 

[Wren]

3 hours ago, Scottie888 said:

Unfortunately, there's no such no worry crash worthy wheel as of yet. However I do have the MCM5v2 & if you don't mind the looks, you can wrap it up with hd foam (or similar) & it'll pretty well fit your #1 criteria. You might have to diy some type of jump pads though.

I have the S18 & while I can't guarantee satisfaction on the "focus on quality & safety" part, I can easily say it satisfies the "offroad/trail focused" dept, at least for me. & I have dropped it innumerable times & its still ticking plus I've yet to do anything to the suspension if it means anything. IMO it's also likely the most crash worthy wheel due to its lack of plastic although I had to duct tape some plastic from ripping out & have lost the rear mudguard.

Seems you & I have very similar objectives. Where in AB you at?

The S18 is the "it comes close" euc that i've been considering, but I think I am going to hold out for the 2nd generation of suspension wheels.  I live out in Drumheller and I plan to explore the area with my mountain bike instead this season.

[MR BRAD]

I think @Mango’s list of wants would inspire a new wheel purchase from me!  Only thing I’d alter in his list is the “boxy” design (I do not mind a utilitarian look and think the “roll bar” adds a great aesthetic along with functionality but I really like a “round” wheel). 
 

I vaguely recall a fantasy image some time ago (maybe a prelude of wishful thinking of the V11?) that depicted a pretty utilitarian / off road type inmotion concept. It was pretty radical looking. 

 

While I have never even ridden, much more own a suspension wheel, I don’t really think it’s something I need (I’m sure there are plenty that would protest or suggest that I don’t know what I’m missing... I know @Unventoris an unabashed advocate for the suspension (V11) wheel; but I’d rather spend the coin on speed and take the bumps. 
 

I think the only thing preventing my adding a Sherman to the stable is the fact that I am quietly hoping that Inmotion will produce a faster, beefier, suspension-less wheel. 
 

My top three....

- faster (I think 80km/h would be even better - safety margin not necessarily for cruise speed, but it would be occasionally fun to hit that 50ish speed!) 

- big tire 

- easy tear down 

[Unventor]

2 hours ago, MR BRAD said:

While I have never even ridden, much more own a suspension wheel, I don’t really think it’s something I need (I’m sure there are plenty that would protest or suggest that I don’t know what I’m missing... I know @Unventoris an unabashed advocate for the suspension (V11) wheel; but I’d rather spend the coin on speed and take the bumps. 

I think this is a very fair point. I fully understand and appreciate that not all will see the same value in suspension. And that more mechanical solutions bring new issues is not something I will argue against. 

As for the V12 this is a non-suspension wheel that one of the very few things I have confirmed i from from Inmotion directly. 

[mrelwood]

On 1/28/2021 at 12:24 AM, Tryptych said:

Why doesn't InMotion fix the V11 bearing issues before they move on to the V12?

1. An EUC (other than a GW) takes YEARS to design and manufacture to a purchasable product. They have been working on the V12 already long before the first bearing issue arose.

2. I’m absolutely sure they are working very hard in finding the best possible solution for the issue. Just like I’m sure that these posts of yours don’t have any effect in the matter.

On 1/28/2021 at 12:24 AM, Tryptych said:

 InMotion tries very very hard to ignore them on the official Telegram chat and on these Forums.

Neither of which is an official support channel, nor promised having active Inmotion personnel taking part.

On 1/28/2021 at 12:24 AM, Tryptych said:

Does InMotion really think their V12 sales are not going to be impacted by this unprofessional behavior?

1. Unprofessional, by your standards. Or western standards. For all we know, working in silence could be the only professional approach in their culture.

2. They have been designing, manufacturing and selling EUCs for many years. They are a very large company. I’m sure they know quite well what truly affects what.

I have personally never worked for a huge Chinese e-transportation company. I have no idea how they are approaching the issue, how many units have bearing issues, how many don’t, and which parts of their business will suffer because of it. And based on your posts neither do you.

 

As for the V12, IIRC Inmotion has said that it will be their fastest wheel with their largest battery, and no suspension. The latter making me drop my interest, unfortunately.