Please don't repeat my mistake: EUC Overlean in cold foggy weather rider fail🤦🏻‍♂️.Unexpected fast crash

[DjPanJan]

 

 

youtube tip: Use minus two times to unzoom and get sharper picture.( use pause and look around track EUC what rolling like stone best on 0.25x speed 4K unzoomed!)

Electric unycicle EUC : Gotway / Begode Msuper Pro (MSP) 2500W battery charge 97% mileage 1700Km tire pressure 38 Psi tiltback set to 52km/h 3D printed front and back bumpers + MSP neoprene eucguard on it and powerpads (MSP survive OK no structural EUC damage or visible problem looksgood all work fan no rim defect).

Light and music still on/play after MSP stop rolling. Weather very humid dense fog road dry 7 degrees Celsius 44.6 degrees Fahrenheit humidity 95%.

What happened ?

I overtook cyclists like a thousand times before this season. The only thing that was different was that the cold outside with high humidity and we had bluetooth music turned on to the maximum and the headlights also turned on. While overtaking the other cyclist, I felt my pedals suddenly drop and it was clear to me that I would be happy if I didn't break anything. Probably the combination of music, cold, humidity and headlight took away so many amps that the EUC could not balance me and i overlean MSP2500w i not expect this because i not lean "agresively" or "hard" just "normal" "like usual" and bad things hapend.

I don't feel/think like I was accelerating more than usual, it was very surprising and powerful for me to know that in half a second my head and body would hit the asphalt. I have nothing broken or dislocated, but my head received a large impact which caused a moderate concussion i not remember impact self and next 10 - 15 minutes my memory just black out temporary i "woke up" after 15 min when riding MSP back to home and first i remember is hey (speak to other euc rider) why my fingers bleeding and gear is on rags? answer you fall and ask me same question 6th times you need go to hospital check seriously! my answer: ...... ........ . I not memeber where i fall and why?(24 hours under medical supervision and a few weeks of rest without permanent consequences)

All what hapend after fall i know from 360 One R video original file have 35Min i upload only 9 sec. In audio edit software i try 800% incrase sound no beeps on video only music play and boom.

Lucky me 360 one R module not scratched little miracle hold on power cable only holder broke when my head hit asphalt. This foogy condensation inside lens is common Insta One R problem after i RMA they give me new camera sadly same problem they give me free lens guard what fix condensation but decrase quality and make "glitchs/strange reflections" in video.

Protection on me: spine protector, shoulder protector, chest protector, impact pants, knee elbow protectors all at the level 2 leatt. Full face helmet met parachute 2018. On all this, biker Kevlar jeans (knee level 2 armor) and a hooded hoodie (elbows shoulder lvl 2 armor). Leather gloves with wrist protectors. Ski jacket as the last layer(torn into rags) Cyclist are fine good boys im happy i hurt only myself not anyone else, they say not hear any beeps or warning signal just music play and boom when EUC hit asphalt.

Be carefull and #wearfullface

 

[NickNonsense]

Interesting to see what others will say and dissect this a little more. 

Did you have any type of logs to go with this from EUCWorld maybe? Bit weird this cut out at that speed, at that battery percentage. Without any beeps. That 360 footage is invaulable too in situtions like these where your able to grab multiple angles. 

Edited October 31, 2020 by NickNonsense

[DjPanJan]

1 hour ago, NickNonsense said:

. Did you have any type of logs to go with this from EUCWorld maybe? 

Shame on me as an eucworld tester I didn't have eucworld active yet. It happened close to the house and I turn on eucworld a little further from the residence due to privacy. If I had eucworld turned on, the vibration watch would alert me to the increased Amps  consumption (120), and I immediately take off the acceleration if watch vibrate. It was an interplay of bad coincidences.
 Because I have no further clues, I consider it Overlean and my personal rider fault.

[Daley1]

Helmet saved the day as well as gearing up. Nice that u can walk away Ur head would have looked like a regurgitated pizza without that helmet! Now just need to work out why the crash!

[.....]

3 hours ago, Daley1 said:

Helmet saved the day as well as gearing up. Nice that u can walk away Ur head would have looked like a regurgitated pizza without that helmet! Now just need to work out why the crash!

It has been determined that the crash was caused by overlean that was induced by a 'top heavy' riding entity. It can be surmised that the increased weight of a helmet did INDEED create the event as depicted. The deduction can be made that YES, a helmet saved individual from more severe injury. However, said injury would have been avoided had aforementioned weight distrubution been disrupted by removing helmet mass..

Edited November 1, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[mhpr262]

5 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

It has been determined that the crash was caused by overlean that was induced by a 'top heavy' riding entity. It can be surmised that the increased weight of a helmet did INDEED create the event as depicted. The deduction can be made that YES, a helmet saved individual from more severe injury. However, said injury would have been avoided had aforementioned weight distrubution been disrupted by removing helmet mass..

I very much doubt that. Additional weight is always bad of course and requires extra power, but if you DO have to add weight on a vehicle like an EUC it should always be added as high up as possible in order to bring up the center of gravity as much as possible.

The wheel balances by going back and forth underneath you and the less weight it has to accelerate and decelerate during the process the easier it will be for the wheel (because of the reduced angular momentum). Tape a heavy weight to a long wooden stick and try to balance it upright in the palm of your hand. You will find that balancing the stick is the easier the higher up the weight (i.e. the center of gravity) is.

The ideal place for carrying weight on a  unicycle is balancing it on top of your head like an African woman carrying water jugs, not in a backpack.

Edited November 1, 2020 by mhpr262

[Mike Sacristan]

We get faster and faster. We lean more and more aggressively. But it feels the same.

What is your riding weight? 

Have you changed pedal mode recently? Soft mode makes it easier to overlean (leverage) and hard mode requires a bit more power (stiffness).

97% sounds a bit optimistic... although it is irrelevant in this case as it was close to full anyway.

[shellac]

Somewhat perturbed that your wheel can cut out like this at full charge, even if it is a bit cold out and the lights and speakers are on. Shouldn’t happen IMO. Perhaps you were leaning more than you thought?

[DjPanJan]

1 hour ago, Mike Sacristan said:

We get faster and faster. We lean more and more aggressively. But it feels the same.

What is your riding weight? 

Have you changed pedal mode recently? Soft mode makes it easier to overlean (leverage) and hard mode requires a bit more power (stiffness).

97% sounds a bit optimistic... although it is irrelevant in this case as it was close to full anyway.

I  lean normaly like always do nothing "special"   i think accident is combination :

1. not eucworld active = no watch vibration warning (high Amps drain alarm and speed alarm both logicaly deactivated)

2. weather cold + extreme humidity and BT music(full volume) + lights on = can be factor 

3. And yes i start overtake and  want acelerate/overtake  more/faster and feel how pedals slowly lost ballance not inmediatly ,diping slowly and continiously down and propably trigger critical  angle where motor/blalance is decativataed like safety feature.

4. i not blame EUC/MSP is my fault unicycle is victim in this accident this is why i name tread and video OVERLEAN

5 Proof is unexpected is my hands position sometime when i do "stupid things on euc" i always have hand is prepare position not this time.    

Real weight around 120kg / 260lbs  with all gear.

Pedals in Medium mode.

Accident happend  +-1 Km near home i not start eucworld yet shame on me. 

 

[NickNonsense]

29 minutes ago, DjPanJan said:

4. i not blame EUC/MSP is my fault unicycle is victim in this accident this is why i name tread and video OVERLEAN

What version of the MSP are you using, speed?

[shellac]

Was your EUC inside at room temp or sitting outside before you rode it? I think you want to ride gently for a while when it’s cold to let the battery warm up before doing anything aggressive. 

 

[Darrell Wesh]

5 hours ago, mhpr262 said:

I very much doubt that. Additional weight is always bad of course and requires extra power, but if you DO have to add weight on a vehicle like an EUC it should always be added as high up as possible in order to bring up the center of gravity as much as possible.

The wheel balances by going back and forth underneath you and the less weight it has to accelerate and decelerate during the process the easier it will be for the wheel (because of the reduced angular momentum). Tape a heavy weight to a long wooden stick and try to balance it upright in the palm of your hand. You will find that balancing the stick is the easier the higher up the weight (i.e. the center of gravity) is.

The ideal place for carrying weight on a  unicycle is balancing it on top of your head like an African woman carrying water jugs, not in a backpack.

Oh boy I hope this post is sarcastic as well. Boy oh boy for your sake I hope 

[GoGeorgeGo]

The key factor here imo is your weight on the machine.  At 260, your not going to get anywhere near the performance out of the machine as a smaller rider.  You just have a lot less sag to play with and the confidence a 100v machine can give you may have lead to this accident.  Im 200lbs and i can overlean my 84v machine pretty easily.  Bigger guys like us need to really be careful with the acceleration, we can still get up to speed its just a matter of not over torqueing the wheel on the way there.

 

Still odd you didnt get tiltback before it dropped you though, maybe double check that your tiltback settings are active and its not just set to death beeps. 

[mrelwood]

9 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

The key factor here imo is your weight on the machine.  At 260, your not going to get anywhere near the performance out of the machine as a smaller rider.

I agree. What is a “normal” acceleration to the op might well have always been at the very limits of the wheel. Even for the MSP. It’s really hard to judge from the video, but to me the acceleration looked rather fast. A good bit faster than I (~105kg) ever did on my 84V 1850Wh MSX.

 

Quote

Still odd you didnt get tiltback before it dropped you though

GotWays only tilt back when the battery sags to 0%, not from fe. overcurrent. Since the battery was full and there were no beeps, my guess is that it didn’t sag down to 0%, but that the motor’s output power simply wasn’t sufficient. As the op suggested, headlight and loud music may have broken the camel’s back.

[gon2fast]

16 hours ago, mhpr262 said:

like an African woman carrying water jugs

Keep those jokes to yourself. I feel great compassion for anyone who does not have access to clean/running water. 

[meepmeepmayer]

That's not a joke, that's just a description

[Seba]

On 10/31/2020 at 11:04 PM, DjPanJan said:

What happened ?

Have you considered a tire slip? It's possible that on a wet surface, as you demanded more torque, for a moment tire lost traction and pedals dipped.

[Tasku]

 

2 hours ago, Seba said:

On 11/1/2020 at 12:04 AM, DjPanJan said:

What happened ?

Have you considered a tire slip? It's possible that on a wet surface, as you demanded more torque, for a moment tire lost traction and pedals dipped

Just gonna write some of my thoughts as I had some slippery experiences now as new rider. It is the unexpected that causes the falls in general. To stay safe is a tricky thing. I for one admit I get into the false safety of expecting performance in all conditions. Leafs, mud and ice are something you need make sure you do not get into that situation with tilted turn or high speed for obvious reasons of not being able to recover, therefore causing fall. FJPanJans fall remains unknown cause. 

 

During acceleration and turning the rider is at higher risk of slip and fall. Because in such event the motor already was performing to peak performance. Changes of recovery gets smaller as there is not much range for performance to recover any bumb or slip you might run into. 

 

In short (general safety remainder, sorry for preaching!):

The faster you go, make sure you keep knees bend or you will fly out of the device when you hit a bump(s).

Avoid acceleration in turns.

Try to maintain speed if there are leafs, mud, harder terrain ahead. Obviously slower you go the more changes you have for motor to recover if there are problems with traction.

You are much safer when you accelerate in moderate way, this leaves you with performance for motor to recover from unexpected event.

At max speed, remember that your motor is peak performance. One bump/slip and you could get cutout because your motor would need more performance to recover and maintain you uptop. You should never perform peak performance unless you know the road is in perfect condition prior the performance you make. Always leave some performance available to your device as you ride in unfamiliar areas.

Low battery - Less speed because you just might not have enough to push it. 

Follow weather conditions. If weather was negative celsius during the night and there is water involved, changes are the road is covered in ice.

Stay safe and use gear.

 

Edited November 2, 2020 by Tasku
typo fixes

[DjPanJan]

13 hours ago, shellac said:

Was your EUC inside at room temp or sitting outside before you rode it? I think you want to ride gently for a while when it’s cold to let the battery warm up before doing anything aggressive. 

 

My EUCs "sleep" is in technical room +-15 celsius /59fahrenheit  +-50% humidity  on stand. Accident happend +-7 min when i go outside/outdoor i ride with friend slowly +-20km/h and go faster becasue overtaking and boom. ( i can reconstruct how long go outside to acident from video file im in job now)

12 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

The key factor here imo is your weight on the machine.  At 260, your not going to get anywhere near the performance out of the machine as a smaller rider.  You just have a lot less sag to play with and the confidence a 100v machine can give you may have lead to this accident.  Im 200lbs and i can overlean my 84v machine pretty easily.  Bigger guys like us need to really be careful with the acceleration, we can still get up to speed its just a matter of not over torqueing the wheel on the way there.

 

Still odd you didnt get tiltback before it dropped you though, maybe double check that your tiltback settings are active and its not just set to death beeps. 

100% agree i am heavy and know it. I ride all season on this MSP and 16X never experienced any dip NEVER. Never crash or fall with MSP i ride with respect this accident surprise me because i still think i not do anything crazy just normal lean and this happend. Now my plan after back on pedal is set tiltback to 15 km/h and try my version of overheat hill this mean "burn" battery in 6km long incline test(asphalt route) if MSP handle no problem this torture is definetly confirm what i think = I overlean MSP (i not feel special about this i feel stupid).   

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I agree. What is a “normal” acceleration to the op might well have always been at the very limits of the wheel. Even for the MSP. It’s really hard to judge from the video, but to me the acceleration looked rather fast. A good bit faster than I (~105kg) ever did on my 84V 1850Wh MSX.

 

GotWays only tilt back when the battery sags to 0%, not from fe. overcurrent. Since the battery was full and there were no beeps, my guess is that it didn’t sag down to 0%, but that the motor’s output power simply wasn’t sufficient. As the op suggested, headlight and loud music may have broken the camel’s back.

I agree with you. Not instant lost ballance MSP try hold me hard continuously diping until last second (until front cut out angle trigered propably)

I try fight back against dip no luck my body was too leaned. Once in some time ago i have similar experience on ks16X i can handle overlean dip because on 16X i acelerate by knee lean  not full body lean like i do on MSP (powerpads).  

1 hour ago, Seba said:

Have you considered a tire slip? It's possible that on a wet surface, as you demanded more torque, for a moment tire lost traction and pedals dipped.

I checked this on original 360 video RAW file frame by frame. No hole ,no stone ,no obstacles dry asphlat. I "remember" this feel how MSP  (pedlas nylonove) dip more and more into point of lost balance completly (stop balancing propably exceed maximum alowed MSP front angle).

If MSP is fine i hope it is. I plan ride again/try it in next 7 - 14 days  after my brain go to normal state.(read like "ready/prepared for another hit" this words doctor say on emergency ) 

Shure i say i fall on BIKE we no need negative mesages about EUC all my EUC falls is "roller blade" or "bike downhill falls" in hospital documents.

If MSP have no control board anomaly or something like this im shure is Overlean.

When i write this comment i have idea  i try reconstruct average speed from video file.  I can measure lenght point A to B in maps and use time when i "meet this 2 points on video file" not super scientific but can work +-  

v = s:t           1 m/s = 3,6 km/h    This looks like easy math. 

[Unventor]

First off I don't know what happened and I am by far not a GW expert. 

Second I do hope you gain a fully recovery. 

Now after riding my KS16X in the wet I have had some scary moments due to tire slips as I am both braking turning and turning accelerating out in fast L turns in roundabouts on to a cycle lane. If you have sand/mud on tire it can easily happen. So I think @Seba suggestion could be the case.

I also think back to @Mike Sacristan KS16X that had faulty battery connector. Just as a thought if one of the battery pack had no connection for what ever reason then a normal demand could be overstrain causing the wheel to loose balance.

I had once an incident on my KS16X where tire were airborne and causing to loose balance and then recover. In this regard I think the KS16X is fairly good at 'rebooting on the fly'. I don't know how good GW handle an overlean situation. 

Thanks to remind me that these things happen. I started to ride a bit faster on my V11. But I know these situations can happen, and that is why when I ride with speed (my natural limit is about 35ish) I know result of a situation like yous can hurt a lot. A reminder is good and it is so easy to get comfortable with suspension. 

Finally I am not sure you ever know the cause of this incident. And that part is likely going to haunt you for a while. My incidents where I got injured were all pretty straight forward. Your here, not so much. Imo.

[mhpr262]

20 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Oh boy I hope this post is sarcastic as well. Boy oh boy for your sake I hope 

Huh? Thats how a EUC works and balances. You can check out the differences in balancing yourself when you change the weight distribution, just like I described.

[Darrell Wesh]

On 11/1/2020 at 8:53 AM, mhpr262 said:

but if you DO have to add weight on a vehicle like an EUC it should always be added as high up as possible in order to bring up the center of gravity as much as possible.

The wheel balances by going back and forth underneath you and the less weight it has to accelerate and decelerate during the process the easier it will be for the wheel (because of the reduced angular momentum). Tape a heavy weight to a long wooden stick and try to balance it upright in the palm of your hand. You will find that balancing the stick is the easier the higher up the weight (i.e. the center of gravity) is.

The ideal place for carrying weight on a  unicycle is balancing it on top of your head like an African woman carrying water jugs, not in a backpack.

You’re dead wrong. Everyone knows a lower center of gravity increases stability and balance. Even your analogy of balancing a stick it will be WAY harder to balance a stick with a weight on the top instead of the weight at the bottom near your palm.

I can only assume you were being highly sarcastic. The women in Africa carrying water jugs on their head have to do that because it’s easier to let the heavy load rest on their heads instead of dragging the full load through their hands for miles. It has nothing to do with balance, it’s just about energy expenditure. 

[.....]

5 hours ago, mhpr262 said:

Huh? Thats how a EUC works and balances. You can check out the differences in balancing yourself when you change the weight distribution, just like I described.

Just in case you missed it.... my original post was complete bullshit and entirely sarcastic

[DjPanJan]

So dear friends.
As I promised, I did.
Homework for video editor and 3 types of map records.
The goal was somehow to find out how many Km / h // miles I drove 1-2 seconds before the incident.
I used the formula for average speed. This is an important average!
I remind you that my tiltback is 52Km / h = 32.1mph!

The result?
The average speed 2 seconds before the moment when my hands had the first contact with the asphalt is 52Km / h = 32.1Mph
Average speed in the last second + - 55Km / h (very much depends on the map scale this is an average value from 3 map providers)
According to the map provider, the speed in the last second ranges from 52km / h to 59 Km / h. Simply put, from 14.8 m to 17 m per second.
It's still an average speed! Not maximum speed!

So under the weight of my own proof, I convicted myself of being an idiot and MSP2500w is a victim!
So the heavy DjpanJan drove the MSP2500w to a 52km / h limiter and it seemed slow to the idiot so I most likely "pushed over" the tiltback and got the acceleration I wanted for about half a second before I smashed against the asphalt.

So a combination of off eucworld(no vibration watch alarms),cold foggy weather, first day acceleration(close to home), light on, bluetooth on, and a misjudge of how much speed i ride it caused this accident.

I'm glad to present this accident as Overlean because it was overlean with great certainty. Within 3 weeks, I should remember the memory of the event, said the traumatologist, so hopefully I will confirm it from the "head".
Thank you all for participating and always wear a full face helmet!
OMG I am faceplant in 55-60km / h = 37miles and I LIVE im too happy my guardian angels had a hard time that day.

I will go to the place every year to light a candle as a celebration of the day when I could be paralyzed or die by my own stupidity.

Ride safe #wearfullface friends!

 

Picture of gear i go recycle today. Expensive fail. but i live!

[Imgur](https://imgur.com/lspxqvj)

[Tasku]

Few things come into mind reading/watching all this. I am happy for your wellbeing and that you get to tell your story.

1.) Opening the wheel would be next level.

They way I look at those numbers this does not seem to be just and only user error.

2.) I wonder did something fry on moba? Does the wheel work?

Pushing close to 60km/h +conditions, it is at the limit of cutoff.

3.) I would like to know that is there any pothole/crack on the road where you fell?

Last thing coming to my theory of thing is that a strong gust of wind could have overpowered the wheel when it was at its limit. There should be some weather info for that hour to provide peak wind speed. Something like 15m/s wind gust could do that to you from right angle. 

My own tiltback settings I take into account that I want to leave buffer zone 10km from the max speed performance. In case of MSP 60km/h is the end zone. And have noticed I can push 5km/h over the tiltback limit so it would be good to put that into the calculations to make surer you have the 10kph buffer zone left. So for MSP tiltback could start already from 45- 48km/h. 

Hope you a speedy recovery!

Edited November 4, 2020 by Tasku