Please don't repeat my mistake: EUC Overlean in cold foggy weather rider fail🤦🏻‍♂️.Unexpected fast crash

[Mike Sacristan]

3 hours ago, DjPanJan said:

So dear friends.
As I promised, I did.
Homework for video editor and 3 types of map records.
The goal was somehow to find out how many Km / h // miles I drove 1-2 seconds before the incident.
I used the formula for average speed. This is an important average!
I remind you that my tiltback is 52Km / h = 32.1mph!

The result?
The average speed 2 seconds before the moment when my hands had the first contact with the asphalt is 52Km / h = 32.1Mph
Average speed in the last second + - 55Km / h (very much depends on the map scale this is an average value from 3 map providers)
According to the map provider, the speed in the last second ranges from 52km / h to 59 Km / h. Simply put, from 14.8 m to 17 m per second.
It's still an average speed! Not maximum speed!

So under the weight of my own proof, I convicted myself of being an idiot and MSP2500w is a victim!
So the heavy DjpanJan drove the MSP2500w to a 52km / h limiter and it seemed slow to the idiot so I most likely "pushed over" the tiltback and got the acceleration I wanted for about half a second before I smashed against the asphalt.

So a combination of off eucworld(no vibration watch alarms),cold foggy weather, first day acceleration(close to home), light on, bluetooth on, and a misjudge of how much speed i ride it caused this accident.

I'm glad to present this accident as Overlean because it was overlean with great certainty. Within 3 weeks, I should remember the memory of the event, said the traumatologist, so hopefully I will confirm it from the "head".
Thank you all for participating and always wear a full face helmet!
OMG I am faceplant in 55-60km / h = 37miles and I LIVE im too happy my guardian angels had a hard time that day.

I will go to the place every year to light a candle as a celebration of the day when I could be paralyzed or die by my own stupidity.

Ride safe #wearfullface friends!

 

Picture of gear i go recycle today. Expensive fail. but i live!

 

[Imgur](https://imgur.com/lspxqvj)

Thank you for the great analysis. I hope it will serve to inform the community.

120kg is nearing the limits of the wheel.
There have been discussions whether the tilt-back requires more power from the wheel. I imagine so.
The tilt-back has a range of X to X+6 kmh where X+6 kmh becomes very difficult to ride.
Harder pedal modes will require more power.
This can surely be testing by observing power consumption while riding.

It would be interesting to know what voltage level the wheel was at.
EUC World battery shown is optimistic. Custom battery setting of 100.8V = 100% and 79.2V = 0% is more reliable.

Voltage dependant alarms are great as are smart alarms.
We need wheels that are faster than what we are willing to ride.
I personally would not use tilt-back as it is not power dependant on Gotway but simply speed dependant.

TLDR: Heavy rider in full gear does donkey lean and overleans the wheel.

Glad to hear you made it out okay. You will probably never remember the actual overlean haha. We black out on the way down.

 

 

[DjPanJan]

As I promised, here are photos from the MSP 2500W (classic)  inspection after the fall. Interior and exterior. VIDEO IS IN FIRST POST

MSP was protected by eucbodyguard and some extra neoprene "pieces" in critical places. With 3D bumper printing on the front and rear.

Injurys:
Fingers and palm for about 14 days to a painless state, but I will have scars after sanding the skin for the rest of my life, at least I have a memory of the event every time I see my hands.

The Brain damage +- 10 days to normalize and start memory working like normaly do.
The shoulder got to a state where I could raise my hand above my head + -14 days.
The knee hurt under pressure (for example squatting) for about 3 weeks.
The worst was an injury to the 2 cervical vertebra that hurt for 5 weeks and doctors said it would probably be chronic pain. But I didn't give up and rehabilitated them now to 100%
In short, I would die without a full face helmet. #wearfullface

Back view (handle is ok now is harder to put out and in but works)

Front view:

Board side:

The reinforced toe saved me from breaking / dislocating my toes. These boots have a reinforced toe at the army level. These are not classic confection shoes but mountain / combat hardware boots.

Again is not fault by MSP is just rider mistake what cost me loot pain. 

The worst thing is that since the fall, I haven't been to the EUC so carefree, but I'm waiting in my head for the impact. Probably a post-traumatic disorder.
Because the concussion I suffered was moderate according to a CT scan. And the opinion of a doctor. 

I wish everyone good health and happiness while driving to the EUC.
Dear friends and enemies, take care of yourself.
  We live only once.         #wearfullface

Edited February 1, 2021 by DjPanJan
fix images

[Rich Sam]

Thanks for posting this, and I'm so glad you are OK after it is all said and done!

As a heavy rider myself 270 lbs I am mindful and fearful of this as well.

[null]

28 minutes ago, Rich Sam said:

Thanks for posting this, and I'm so glad you are OK after it is all said and done!

As a heavy rider myself 270 lbs I am mindful and fearful of this as well.

Yes I noticed you mentioned 30mph on the V11 elsewhere, remember the closer to max speed the less margin left. You might have to consider a beefier EUC if you are going to ride fast on a regular basis..

[Rich Sam]

16 minutes ago, null said:

Yes I noticed you mentioned 30mph on the V11 elsewhere, remember the closer to max speed the less margin left. You might have to consider a beefier EUC if you are going to ride fast on a regular basis..

Yes indeed, I do plan to continue to ride fast I have a speed alarm at 32 and keep it under that.  I also am mindful of over acceleration which I feel is the REAL danger of an overweight passenger.  The amount of amps needed to accelerate quickly is MUCH greater than a slow acceleration to top speed.

Edited February 2, 2021 by Rich Sam

[.....]

1 hour ago, Rich Sam said:

Yes indeed, I do plan to continue to ride fast I have a speed alarm at 32 and keep it under that.  I also am mindful of over acceleration which I feel is the REAL danger of an overweight passenger.  The amount of amps needed to accelerate quickly is MUCH greater than a slow acceleration to top speed.

You're not leaving much overhead at all. Don't forget that dips in pavement, holes, wind and inclines will eat your battery and you won't notice or be able to avoid it. Live on the edge by all means. I do think you may be overestimating the power you have left at 32 and I don't need a crystal ball to guess what will eventually occur. By all means, push that envelope, just please be aware when you're doing it. I have a sherm and expect it to ride me around 45mph TOPS, and thats cuttin it close. On my 18L, I also have alarms set at 3mph under tilt at the very least(the brand is conservative, I'm not). Even so, Im expecting a faceplant sometime soon.

Edited February 2, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Rich Sam]

If it happens, and I hope it doesn't   I will accept it.  Won't be my fist knee pad slide at 30 mph probably won't be my last.

edit:  I'm also hoping those braniac engineers were smart enough to governor top speed at a certain amount, but also have enough juice to account for the amperage pull of a bump.

Edited February 2, 2021 by Rich Sam
added my hopes of smart engineering

[.....]

22 minutes ago, Rich Sam said:

If it happens, and I hope it doesn't   I will accept it.  Won't be my fist knee pad slide at 30 mph probably won't be my last.

edit:  I'm also hoping those braniac engineers were smart enough to governor top speed at a certain amount, but also have enough juice to account for the amperage pull of a bump.

I hear ya, accepting the dangers is fine, as long as the choice is not made from lack of knowledge. Just be ready, as from what I've seen, your knees arent always the first to contact.   I can tell you with absolute certainty that the engineers havent allotted enough power for overhead. Marketing pushes them to compromise on overhead, so they can publish better numbers. The OP in this very thread is discussing how safe and how mindful of overhead the engineers are. Im sure he also didnt think he was asking much from the wheel, in compare to its published ability. If you're a speed demon, I think you may need look at larger offerings as well.

Edited February 2, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Rich Sam]

Just now, ShanesPlanet said:

I hear ya, accepting the dangers is fine, as long as the choice is not made from lack of knowledge.  I can tell you with absolute certainty that the engineers havent allotted enough power for overhead. Marketing pushes them to compromise on overhead, so they can publish better numbers.

haha very true!  You should hear the things marketers say at my company

I'm new to riding but my general thoughts based on input from riders much more battle seasoned than me.

Gotway takes more risks sometimes at the expense of safety.

KingSong takes safety very seriously sometimes at the expense of fun

InMotion is a big company that has a very conservative approach

 

I'm hoping that conservative approach keeps me up, but like you said.... no promises!

[Tasku]

2 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I can tell you with absolute certainty that the engineers havent allotted enough power for overhead.

Pretty much all the manufactors say driving over 25 km/h is dangerous and warranties null and void.

In my humble opinion a fall is something that will happen. Just matter of time.

 Driver rarely admit fault, I gues we build that way. It always is something like: a sun in the eye, or kid on the street, or something that we could not foresee.

Only thing to prepare for the event unexpected would be drive slower, therefore having more reaction time. So maybe that rule of thumb could help someone out there.

 

Best advice ramble is true: Use gear. Even with gear on, you can get seriously injured.

Less speed is also less injuries, but I understand that people have to come to that decision by themselves.

I find it important that these devices should require knowledge of road rules. Driver licence of any caliber by minium.

 

Hope you stay safe, yet have fun while doing it!

[.....]

5 minutes ago, Rich Sam said:

haha very true!  You should hear the things marketers say at my company

I'm new to riding but my general thoughts based on input from riders much more battle seasoned than me.

Gotway takes more risks sometimes at the expense of safety.

KingSong takes safety very seriously sometimes at the expense of fun

InMotion is a big company that has a very conservative approach

 

I'm hoping that conservative approach keeps me up, but like you said.... no promises!

Those generalizations are going to get you into trouble   I think they ALL somewhat mitigate just how close we really are to the edge of the power. Add some power pads and a person bigger than a midget... well.  Gotway simply allows users to override sensibilities and ride WAY close to the edge. Riders with little self restraint are the ones that continue to overlean those. Kingsong takes a bit safer approach, but at the expense of fun? No way!  InMotion is a big company yes, but they arent above the rules and the market. In the end, each company relies on the operator to ensure proper expected use. I'm not a safety nut nor am I telling you to slow down. Oh hell no... go as fast as you can and enjoy that adrenaline! Just remember, its not IF you crash, its WHEN. Same basic rules of motorcycle riding applies. Also the same, is NOT riding at top speed, so you can actualy accelerate should traffic or road conditions require. THIS is why i set my alarm a tad lower than tiltback. I am training myself to recognize my top speed as being slower than it really is, allowing that overhead in emergencies. Batteries are freaking finnicky as it is. Tbh, gotway is SAFER for speed demons that are responsible. Why, because it can actually do it at all.

[GoGeorgeGo]

29 minutes ago, Rich Sam said:

If it happens, and I hope it doesn't   I will accept it.  Won't be my fist knee pad slide at 30 mph probably won't be my last.

edit:  I'm also hoping those braniac engineers were smart enough to governor top speed at a certain amount, but also have enough juice to account for the amperage pull of a bump.

Just remeber in order to even reach 32 mph you have secretly enable the hidden fancier mode.  Imo when you enable fancier mode your acknowledgeing that you know your pushing the unicycle to its absolute limits and understand why it fails if it fails.

Personally i turned off fancier mode , i dont push the machine all the way to 35 anyways. While it can handle 35 mph, its my opinion that the wheel was designed to be a 30 mph wheel. Fancier mode was not even announced until consumer pushback forced them to add it.  I know others disagree with me, but its just my feeling that fancier mode is an after thought and is not in my opinion the intended operating mode. 

Enough doom and gloom though, 32 mph limit is a good idea and i also hope it never happens to anyone ever again 😋

[Rich Sam]

Just now, GoGeorgeGo said:

Just remeber in order to even reach 32 mph you have secretly enable the hidden fancier mode.  Imo when you enable fancier mode your acknowledgeing that you know your pushing the unicycle to its absolute limits and understand why it fails if it fails.

Personally i turned off fancier mode , i dont push the machine all the way to 35 anyways. While it can handle 35 mph, its my opinion that the wheel was designed to be a 30 mph wheel. Fancier mode was not even announced until consumer pushback forced them to add it.  I know others disagree with me, but its just my feeling that fancier mode is an after thought and is not in my opinion the intended operating mode. 

Enough doom and gloom though, 32 mph limit is a good idea and i also hope it never happens to anyone ever again 😋

I tested, only "Fancier" mode gets my fat ass up some hills by my house.  But yeah I get you!

[GoGeorgeGo]

2 minutes ago, Rich Sam said:

I tested, only "Fancier" mode gets my fat ass up some hills by my house.  But yeah I get you!

Really? You notice that much difference in power delivery?

I tested acceleration with both modes and noticed no differences between them so it made my decision easy. But if your struggling with torque that may imply the power is being delivered differently afterall. May have to break put the app and do a more thorough investigation now 

Edited February 2, 2021 by GoGeorgeGo

[Rich Sam]

Just now, GoGeorgeGo said:

Really? You notice that much difference in power delivery?

I tested acceleration with both modes and noticed no differences between them so it made my decision easy. But if your struggling with torque that may imply the power is being delivered differently afterall. May have to break put the app and do a more thorough investigation now 

yeah, I hard to lean HARD to get up my hill and it stalled more than once @80% + battery.   Switched to "Fancier" mode and sky is the limit it feels like.

I'm 270 lbs naked so....  with gear I'm pushing mid to high 70's

Now that I am a much better rider perhaps I should retry that test...  but my findings from before was it felt night and day.

 

[Rich Sam]

Just now, Rich Sam said:

yeah, I hard to lean HARD to get up my hill and it stalled more than once @80% + battery.   Switched to "Fancier" mode and sky is the limit it feels like.

I'm 270 lbs naked so....  with gear I'm pushing mid to high 70's

Now that I am a much better rider perhaps I should retry that test...  but my findings from before was it felt night and day.

 

I'm also rocking the 3rd batch v11 which I understand got the 200 watt bump

[.....]

15 minutes ago, Rich Sam said:

I'm also rocking the 3rd batch v11 which I understand got the 200 watt bump

Wow, you are definitely at the limits of that wheel. Nearly 300lbs? I would definitely put those alarms lower. From the people I've seen in the euc company images, I dont see many 250+lb humans around. 'fancier' mode my ass. Opening up an extra 200watts isnt adressing the actual issue. Its the batteries not the motor, that cause these cutout/overhead issues.  DId they also make the batteries magically less prone to sag? You my friend, will be adding a very large wheel to your collection soon, I can feel it. Imagine your hair in the wind on a big ole wheel at 40mph with overhead to spare.... yup, thats the stuff!

[Rich Sam]

Just now, ShanesPlanet said:

Wow, you are definitely at the limits of that wheel. Nearly 300lbs? I would definitely put those alarms lower. From the people I've seen in the euc company images, I dont see many 250+lb humans around. 'fancier' mode my ass. Opening up an extra 200watts isnt adressing the actual issue. Its the batteries not the motor, that cause these cutout/overhead issues.  DId they also make the batteries magically less prone to sag? You my friend, will be adding a very large wheel to your collection soon, I can feel it. Imagine your hair in the wind on a big ole wheel at 40mph with overhead to spare.... yup, thats the stuff!

Yeah you should see the hills by my house, there are some pretty big inclines for @1/4 mile its like my own version of "Overheat hill"  I can start my own show, fat guy on little EUC torture test .  I'm shocked and impressed the v11 can push my weight and sustain for some time without temp issues.  Very Very pleased.

[Rich Sam]

Tour I recorded around my neighborhood,  have not done a tour from my last couple of rides but i recorded some big hill climbs you can see the big amp pulls from time to time.

https://euc.world/tour/594560051855092

 

[null]

@EUChristian overpowered his V11 at 32,3mph while weighting 210lb. He first thought it was a cutout, so slight was the extra acceleration that made it happen. As @ShanesPlanet mentioned you are free to be on the edge, I have no interest in nannying you either, but had to mention the above case. Now you know, the rest is up to you  

Edited February 2, 2021 by null

[Rich Sam]

Just now, null said:

@EUChristian overpowered his V11 at 32,3mph while weighting 210lb. He first thought it was a cutout, so slight was the extra acceleration that made it happen. As @ShanesPlanet mentioned you are free to be on the edge, I have no interest in nannying you neither, but had to mention the above case. Now you know, the rest is up to you  

I appreciate it I do, I am very gingerly feeling out the boundaries not going full balls out.

[.....]

12 minutes ago, Rich Sam said:

Tour I recorded around my neighborhood,  have not done a tour from my last couple of rides but i recorded some big hill climbs you can see the big amp pulls from time to time.

https://euc.world/tour/594560051855092

 

change access rights unless you intended me be 'forbidden'

[Rich Sam]

17 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

change access rights unless you intended me be 'forbidden'

Done, though I do like the Forbidden label!

 

another quick tour you can see current draw.  bust amp pulls of 35+ and wattage spiking 2.57k

edit: 2.57 k actually

https://euc.world/tour/594757155738035

Edited February 2, 2021 by Rich Sam

[Rich Sam]

10 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

change access rights unless you intended me be 'forbidden'

Dang I just saw the ride in your Hot Springs ride in your sig, what kind of beast pulls 80 amps at 8k watts?

[Ádám Szitás]

1 hour ago, Rich Sam said:

KingSong takes safety very seriously sometimes at the expense of fun

I wish they would, instead of creating wheels with only 10mph buffers, so people are afraid to ride them even below their said top speed.. (16x experience)

 

52 minutes ago, Rich Sam said:

yeah, I hard to lean HARD to get up my hill and it stalled more than once @80% + battery.   Switched to "Fancier" mode and sky is the limit it feels like.

Funny how it creates an illusion of more power, huh?  There is no magic, and absolutely no difference in anything, but where the tiltback and beep starts.

17 minutes ago, null said:

@EUChristian overpowered his V11 at 32,3mph while weighting 210lb. He first thought it was a cutout, so slight was the extra acceleration that made it happen. As @ShanesPlanet mentioned you are free to be on the edge, I have no interest in nannying you either, but had to mention the above case. Now you know, the rest is up to you  

That "slight acceleration" was still 0-32mph acceleration in around 4 seconds with constant 60+ amps draw.

 

24 minutes ago, Rich Sam said:

Tour I recorded around my neighborhood,  have not done a tour from my last couple of rides but i recorded some big hill climbs you can see the big amp pulls from time to time.

https://euc.world/tour/594560051855092

The best way to know how close you were to falling is monitoring the amps/watts. If you regularly get close to 60+ amps and 4000+ watts after a ride you should probably chill down or at least don't try it harder, because then you really are at the limits.

1 hour ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

Just remeber in order to even reach 32 mph you have secretly enable the hidden fancier mode.  Imo when you enable fancier mode your acknowledgeing that you know your pushing the unicycle to its absolute limits and understand why it fails if it fails.

And I'm here to disagree  some people showed they reached 37 mph and someone shared a video on telegram yesterday cruising at 35 mph well below the known power limits. PS: I also ride on a 30mph limit but it is due to 0% pedal sensitivity limit.