Please don't repeat my mistake: EUC Overlean in cold foggy weather rider fail🤦🏻‍♂️.Unexpected fast crash

[Rich Sam]

1 minute ago, Ádám Szitás said:

I wish they would, instead of creating wheels with only 10mph buffers, so people are afraid to ride them even below their said top speed.. (16x experience)

 

Funny how it creates an illusion of more power, huh?  There is no magic, and absolutely no difference in anything, but where the tiltback and beep starts.

That "slight acceleration" was still 0-32mph acceleration in around 4 seconds with constant 60+ amps draw.

 

The best way to know how close you were to falling is monitoring the amps/watts. If you regularly get close to 60+ amps and 4000+ watts after a ride you should probably chill down or at least don't try it harder, because then you really are at the limits.

And I'm here to disagree  some people showed they reached 37 mph and someone shared a video on telegram yesterday cruising at 35 mph well below the known power limits. PS: I also ride on a 30mph limit but it is due to 0% pedal sensitivity limit.

Awesome post man!  I kind of had feeling that monitoring power output was key to finding the boundary, it's good to see you have some numbers to actually look for!

I'm going to write these numbers in my riding journal for reference.

[null]

1 hour ago, Ádám Szitás said:

That "slight acceleration" was still 0-32mph acceleration in around 4 seconds with constant 60+ amps draw.

But it didn't cut from the first 4 seconds acceleration, it did from a current spike at second 7, where he himself reported he didn't feel he accelerated particularly or hit a bump. Anyway, I'm just getting at the fact that when you are close to the edge it doesn't take much to go over the limit.

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by null

[Rich Sam]

Set up a 60 amp alarm on EUC World lets see how it goes.  So I know to back the heck off.

[.....]

39 minutes ago, Rich Sam said:

Dang I just saw the ride in your Hot Springs ride in your sig, what kind of beast pulls 80 amps at 8k watts?

My sherman does, with my wimpy 130lb ass, riding like a little pu**y in my neighborhood. The ride is captured on my channel where I encounter a tiny bit of ice. I didnt include data, as gps goes haywire out here. So basically.... it must not be too tough to tap into more power than you would think. Ive also managed to sag from 95% to below 50% on a typical street ride at WELL under 45mph. To make the math more fun, you do realize that batteries are prone to temperature and age and missing fairy dust particles, making exact stats a myth.. Battery sag is more important than overall amperage, tho they are obviously related. Its not the motors conking out, its the batteries not keeping up. Again, how much they can take is a moving target as it changes on more variables than just simply resting voltage. This entire thread is dedicated to helping us NOT make the same mistake @DjPanJan did.

Edited February 2, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Ádám Szitás]

6 minutes ago, null said:

I'm just getting at the fact that when you are close to the edge it doesn't take much to go over the limit.

No objections there. That is why it is important to monitor power output before and getting to know your wheel well, before trying to pull these off.

4 minutes ago, Rich Sam said:

Set up a 60 amp alarm on EUC World lets see how it goes.  So I know to back the heck off.

Set it to 50amps first, so you actually have more of a chance of reacting. My highest was 65amps and 4500watts, but I don't think anyone should try to go over 60 on purpose.

 

1 minute ago, ShanesPlanet said:

30 minutes ago, Rich Sam said:

Dang I just saw the ride in your Hot Springs ride in your sig, what kind of beast pulls 80 amps at 8k watts?

My sherman does, with my wimpy 130lb ass, riding like a little pu**y in my neighborhood. The ride is captured on my channel where I encounter a tiny bit of ice. I didnt include data, as gps goes haywire out here. So basically.... it must not be too tough to tap into more power than you would think. Ive also managed to sag from 95% to below 50% on a typical street ride at WELL under 45mph.

Gotways measure watts and amps differently so they are completely useless in that regard. I can get 130amps and 20000watts out of my mten just doing slow pendulums.

[Tawpie]

20 minutes ago, Ádám Szitás said:

Gotways measure watts and amps differently

I read somewhere that Gotway reports a current level that's 3x what other wheels report. Something to do with reporting motor single phase vs all phases together.

[Rich Sam]

Just now, Tawpie said:

I read somewhere that Gotway reports a current level that's 3x what other wheels report. Something to do with reporting motor single phase vs all phases together.

ha I was just looking up the term I read on the Graph @null that had Phase Current separated from base current.  that would explain it!

[Ádám Szitás]

5 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

I read somewhere that Gotway reports a current level that's 3x what other wheels report. Something to do with reporting motor single phase vs all phases together.

Something like that, but as you can see in this graph as well, it is not exactly 3 times current everywhere.

[Tawpie]

At extreme risk of thread jacking, what would be fun some day is to get together and both ride the same route at the same time at the same speed (together would be an apt description I suppose) to compare the effect of rider weight. I tip the scales fully geared at 120ish and this is a snippet marked where I'm going up a hill that was too steep for this learner to ever try to ride down again.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by Tawpie
delete attachment

[EUChristian]

1 hour ago, Ádám Szitás said:

I wish they would, instead of creating wheels with only 10mph buffers, so people are afraid to ride them even below their said top speed.. (16x experience)

 

Funny how it creates an illusion of more power, huh?  There is no magic, and absolutely no difference in anything, but where the tiltback and beep starts.

That "slight acceleration" was still 0-32mph acceleration in around 4 seconds with constant 60+ amps draw.

 

The best way to know how close you were to falling is monitoring the amps/watts. If you regularly get close to 60+ amps and 4000+ watts after a ride you should probably chill down or at least don't try it harder, because then you really are at the limits.

And I'm here to disagree  some people showed they reached 37 mph and someone shared a video on telegram yesterday cruising at 35 mph well below the known power limits. PS: I also ride on a 30mph limit but it is due to 0% pedal sensitivity limit.

The 37mph was Chooch going down a mountain if I recall but you may have seen another post I haven't. Adding for context so no one attempts this on flat land. 

As for the "slight acceleration" let me clear that up - I was referring to the lean itself, not the acceleration (since at that point I has no graph until Inmotion posted).  I've seen Kuji ride this for his acceleration test and I've seen full tilt. I wasn't anything close to that. .

But the difference I've learned over time is weight. He probably weighs half of me. That's all the difference. 

[EUChristian]

FYI to those riding the limit and thinking nothing about it. Fully geared up (fully) I sustained damaged wrists that took a month and a half to heal (and will have to live with some discomfort for life) and I still have a headache that comes on and off four months later (full face helmet).  I laughed about this shit before but now I've seen the pavement gods and I am not going to live handicapped. 

[Rich Sam]

34 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

At extreme risk of thread jacking, what would be fun some day is to get together and both ride the same route at the same time at the same speed (together would be an apt description I suppose) to compare the effect of rider weight. I tip the scales fully geared at 120ish and this is a snippet marked where I'm going up a hill that was too steep for this learner to ever try to ride down again.

 

For sure that would be fun experiment someday!  I'm a newb too.

There is a hill close by I might try today if the rain takes a break for a quick test, I want to see if the v11 can get me up.  This hill is bigger than anything in my immediate neighborhood would be a good challenge and even better data to look over.  I should be able to get elevation gain based on distance and elevation gain.  I just looked at the Google street view of it, and it really does not do it justice.

[.....]

3 minutes ago, EUChristian said:

FYI to those riding the limit and thinking nothing about it. Fully geared up (fully) I sustained damaged wrists that took a month and a half to heal (and will have to live with some discomfort for life) and I still have a headache that comes on and off four months later (full face helmet).  I laughed about this shit before but now I've seen the pavement gods and I am not going to live handicapped. 

Go faster and wear less, maybe youll get to enjoy seeing another God.

[EUChristian]

5 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Go faster and wear less, maybe youll get to enjoy seeing another God.

I'll tell you this sir I am riding until the day I die. I am addicted to this in ways I didn't think was possible. I hated sports growing up. Full on nerd. Now I find myself sneaking out in the winter at night for a ride. Who in God's name does that. I'm an EUC junkie. 

Also I upgraded my gear to an entirely different level. Steel toed sketchers, leatt pads and armored pants. Papa don't play now. Scratch scratch gotta ride soon to get my fix. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by EUChristian

[Tawpie]

4 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Go faster and wear less, maybe youll get to enjoy seeing another God.

I tell ya, some peoples kids… 

[Rich Sam]

21 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Go faster and wear less, maybe youll get to enjoy seeing another God.

 

[Tawpie]

49 minutes ago, EUChristian said:

But the difference I've learned over time is weight. He probably weighs half of me. That's all the difference.

and that's the truth.

Rule of thumb is it takes 4x the power to accelerate 2x the weight, lightweights just need less peak power to stay upright.

Finally. An activity where the skinny sh@#$s have an advantage. Thank you physics.

[Rich Sam]

1 minute ago, Tawpie said:

and that's the truth.

Rule of thumb is it takes 4x the power to accelerate 2x the weight, lightweights just need less peak power to stay upright.

Finally. An activity where the skinny sh@#$s have an advantage. Thank you physics.

hey don't sell us fatties short, I bet we kill on down hill battery regen

[Tawpie]

downside is that at high speed, I'm more likely to simply blow clean off the wheel than overlean it. (maybe I need a Sherman, I could sit and cling onto the rollbar!)

Edited February 3, 2021 by Tawpie

[Faster]

Thanks for sharing.  I was debating cyclist helmet vs full face,  You had me convinced.  Now I just need to find a BMX helmet for my big head!   

[EUChristian]

4 hours ago, Faster said:

Thanks for sharing.  I was debating cyclist helmet vs full face,  You had me convinced.  Now I just need to find a BMX helmet for my big head!   

Yes because a cycling helmet is usually going to be on the opposite side of your head from where your trajectory points at a fall - hence a "face first" fall. I see people in videos with cycling hats and immediately say "clearly this is for show only..."

Those traveling under 10mph are excluded. Barely. 

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by EUChristian

[Faster]

How about this style.  It's a bit pricy.  I'm hoping to find something similar but without the $250 price tag.  

 

https://www.amazon.com/Bell-Super-Helmet-Downdraft-Gunmetal/dp/B07GT83ZSK/ref=pd_rhf_sc_p_img_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=J20EBYMM7P2B7ZWB8Q3V

[Tawpie]

Swing over to the helmet thread, lots (and lots and lots) of good stuff there.

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, Faster said:

How about this style.  It's a bit pricy.  I'm hoping to find something similar but without the $250 price tag.  

 

https://www.amazon.com/Bell-Super-Helmet-Downdraft-Gunmetal/dp/B07GT83ZSK/ref=pd_rhf_sc_p_img_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=J20EBYMM7P2B7ZWB8Q3V

That’s my style. Still using the Cratoni C-Maniac v1, but probably ordering the v2 any day now. It’s one the cheapest light but decent MTB helmets with a chin bar.

[litewave]

1 hour ago, Faster said:

How about this style.  It's a bit pricy.  I'm hoping to find something similar but without the $250 price tag.  

 

https://www.amazon.com/Bell-Super-Helmet-Downdraft-Gunmetal/dp/B07GT83ZSK/ref=pd_rhf_sc_p_img_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=J20EBYMM7P2B7ZWB8Q3V

 

24 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

That’s my style. Still using the Cratoni C-Maniac v1, but probably ordering the v2 any day now. It’s one the cheapest light but decent MTB helmets with a chin bar.

I've owned a Bell Super 3R for more than three years. It's a great helmet, but looks a little dated now. It's super light (around 750g), and saved my head and neck from a hard faceplant last summer.

The 3R has been out for about 4-5 years, so I would expect Bell to introduce an updated version later this year. The Super 3R replaced the Super 2R before it, which was nearly identical. Its price dropped by $50-75 after the 3R was released. The 2R came in a cool, stormtrooper design as well, but those are nearly impossible to find anymore.

Also, the 3R typically sold for $165US dollars for most of the past three years, and was often discounted down to $125 for less popular colors.

Finally, you are paying extra for the convertible/removable chin bar. This is a feature I thought I might use but never have. There are several fixed chin helmets that are more reasonable and have also MIPS, such as the Demon Podium (from the same company that sells the Flexmeter wrist guards that many of us wear). The Bell Sanction is also a great deal but lacks MIPs.

Edited February 19, 2021 by litewave