V11 Cutout - User Error - Inmotion FTW

[EUChristian]

Edit- this was indeed an overlean situation. Page 3 has a graph from my riding log to show what happened here. 

 

I have some bad news and I tell you this with a heavy heart as I have loved my V11 from the day I have gotten it.  Wanted to inform the community and keep this as fact based as possible. I have emailed my distributor Ewheels to let Inmotion know as well. 

Yesterday around 3:30pm I sustained a cutout at 96% battery power on a flat road at 52.5km/h on my V11.  I am on the newest firmware update (1.2.1) and have fancier mode enabled and have easily sustained speeds of 55km/h on past trips (trip log from inmotion app below).  This was at fast acceleration but certainly not what I would consider full tilt.  The temperature of the day was around 54 degrees Fahrenheit and I am a 210lb rider.  There was no wind during the run.  I received no alarm (which I have received before at 55kph and it is obnoxious in my own voice) and no tilt back.  No wobble occurred, it simply stopped working and threw me forward.  I landed on the top/back of my head and evidently after rolling a bit I slid down the road on my back.

 

I was in helmet and wrist guards.  My right wrist took the blunt of the hit and my left hip took the blunt of my body hit.  I'm not injured enough for an ER but I'm going to have to get physical therapy unfortunately.  Of course I ride at my own risk and I accept the consequences of the sport however I am not ever going to get on this thing again.  It has proven unreliable now and I have never had a unicycle cut out below top speed without initiating tiltback.  It has correctly initiated tilt back for me before, at 55kph above 80% battery in a very moderate way to keep me at speed.  I have no idea why it would have done this on this particular occasion. It had been in operation for around 5 min at the time of failure. 

 

The unicycle itself isn't in bad shape from the fall.  The case was rigid and took the hit without much damage.  One of my clark pads was destroyed and the handle blew off.  The front light sustained impact on the top lip of the light and no damage to the light, the bulb, or the plastic shroud happened. Suspension seems a little bouncy but I was able to ride home without issue.

 

Attached are some pictures of the unicycle, the App readouts showing yesterday's run and fall (Saturday) with top speed as 52.5kph as well as past runs  showing the unicycle operates normally at its full potential of 55kph days ago. 

 

I put a picture of what my jacket looked like as well as the smear of cotton I left on the ground. Happened in front of my two kids. 

 

 

 

https://ibb.co/TP4Gwdf
https://ibb.co/44Q4nRM
https://ibb.co/X4vsMpP
https://ibb.co/jDxXDBs
https://ibb.co/tLfsvw9
https://ibb.co/NsHCRMg
https://ibb.co/QkSTCJG
https://ibb.co/RchmTnX

Edited November 18, 2020 by EUChristian

[mhpr262]

Ugh that sucks. Good to hear that there seems to be no excessive/permanent damage to your body. Although I must admit I'll never know how people can ride at those speeds, anything above 25km/makes me feel distinctly uneasy.

 

The app says max power was 4338W, that sounds really, really high. I wouldnt be surprised if it melted a fuse or a couple of FETs.

Edited November 15, 2020 by mhpr262

[EUChristian]

4 minutes ago, mhpr262 said:

Ugh that sucks. Good to hear that there seems to be no excessive/permanent damage to your body. Although I must admit I'll never know how people can ride at those speeds, anything above 25km/makes me feel distinctly uneasy.

 

The app says max power was 4338W, that sounds really, really high. I wouldnt be surprised if it melted a fuse or a couple of FETs.

Agreed does seem real high. Unicycle has never been dropped before and I can't seem to figure out what could have precipitated this. 

Only concern is whiplash. Definitely hard to move my head around. Had I been without helmet at that speed I would be in the ER getting face surgery. 

[Ádám Szitás]

just for reference, my highest was 4100 watts(and 65A), when I hit a pothole at around topspeed, so you beat my record. I was around 50% battery at the time but no sign of weakness from the wheel.

[meepmeepmayer]

I hope you are ok?

That's sound just like a "normal" overlean where you run out of torque close to the top speed. What's the lift speed of the V11?

[Ádám Szitás]

It is 80kmh/50mph

[GoGeorgeGo]

The v11 is only an 84v wheel.  If you where under heavy acceleration like you said, thats your culprit.  The tiltback likely never had a chance to kick in if you where already doing 25+ and pushed it to hard looking for more.  Where you on any incline at all or was it perfectly flat ground? 

 

I see you tend to hit the 55 km/h mark on almost every trip, this seems like very risky riding imo.  The machine is made to max out at 55 km/h .  That is a speed not designed for this wheel to maintain.  Constantly flurting with the top end like that is dangerous.  Thats why so many people flock to gotway.  If you want to cruise at higher speeds the v11 is not the wheel for you. I love my v11, but it really likes 15-25 mph. 30+ gets sketchy honestly, between wind and hills and wheel friction, pushing max speed should only be done in controlled environments.  

 

I hope you recover and get yourself a new wheel you can trust!! Definitely go 100v for your riding style, RS, Sherman, Nik+,Monster 100v.  All solid choices that will carry 35 mph much safer 

[EUChristian]

57 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

The v11 is only an 84v wheel.  If you where under heavy acceleration like you said, thats your culprit.  The tiltback likely never had a chance to kick in if you where already doing 25+ and pushed it to hard looking for more.  Where you on any incline at all or was it perfectly flat ground? 

 

I see you tend to hit the 55 km/h mark on almost every trip, this seems like very risky riding imo.  The machine is made to max out at 55 km/h .  That is a speed not designed for this wheel to maintain.  Constantly flurting with the top end like that is dangerous.  Thats why so many people flock to gotway.  If you want to cruise at higher speeds the v11 is not the wheel for you. I love my v11, but it really likes 15-25 mph. 30+ gets sketchy honestly, between wind and hills and wheel friction, pushing max speed should only be done in controlled environments.  

 

I hope you recover and get yourself a new wheel you can trust!! Definitely go 100v for your riding style, RS, Sherman, Nik+,Monster 100v.  All solid choices that will carry 35 mph much safer 

Folks...it can handle a 210lb rider at max advertised speed. This is not an overlean situation in the classic sense of the wheel being overpowered as some of you are insinuating. 52.5kmh is within its parameters at 96% power and I have been much more aggressive with it in the past. It's at 96% battery.

 

I have a KS16 and I have pushed the boundary of tiltback. I would be hard pressed to overlean it. This wasn't at full on aggression at all. I was cruising and moving to full speed. It should have initiated a soft safety tiltback.  It did not. It didn't even try and I didn't give it reason not to. 

 

Yes - if it was overpowered beyond capability from an aggressive load it would be an overlean. No load happened. And no warning or tiltback happened. I know what happened- wasn't user error here. 

 

This is a software issue or something melted. 

Edited November 15, 2020 by EUChristian

[EUChristian]

58 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

The v11 is only an 84v wheel.  If you where under heavy acceleration like you said, thats your culprit.  The tiltback likely never had a chance to kick in if you where already doing 25+ and pushed it to hard looking for more.  Where you on any incline at all or was it perfectly flat ground? 

 

I see you tend to hit the 55 km/h mark on almost every trip, this seems like very risky riding imo.  The machine is made to max out at 55 km/h .  That is a speed not designed for this wheel to maintain.  Constantly flurting with the top end like that is dangerous.  Thats why so many people flock to gotway.  If you want to cruise at higher speeds the v11 is not the wheel for you. I love my v11, but it really likes 15-25 mph. 30+ gets sketchy honestly, between wind and hills and wheel friction, pushing max speed should only be done in controlled environments.  

 

I hope you recover and get yourself a new wheel you can trust!! Definitely go 100v for your riding style, RS, Sherman, Nik+,Monster 100v.  All solid choices that will carry 35 mph much safer 

I see what you are saying but you are missing one key point. Unlike a Gotway this one has a hard tiltback. It's programmed to not allow me to get close enough to get into an overlean. I've felt the software kick it in before on my V11 - works beautifully. 

 

This was not an overlean and if you choose to believe thats your prerogative. It simply shut off below max speed. 

[GoGeorgeGo]

Just now, EUChristian said:

I see what you are saying but you are missing one key point. Unlike a Gotway this one has a hard tiltback. It's programmed to not allow me to get close enough to get into an overlean. I've felt the software kick it in before on my V11 - works beautifully. 

 

This was not an overlean and if you choose to believe thats your prerogative. It simply shut off below max speed. 

"This was at fast acceleration but certainly not what I would consider full tilt. "

Im just saying the wheel is fairly easy to overpower by accident.  You can see in wrong ways video, he can over torque the wheel just from a stand still.  I dont mean to doubt you, you have more information available to you than i do.  

All im saying is the tiltback is a safety mechanism not crutch, it wont work if the wheel is out of torque.  Constantly pushing a wheel to its safety margin is not how they are designed to work. 

[EUChristian]

25 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

"This was at fast acceleration but certainly not what I would consider full tilt. "

Im just saying the wheel is fairly easy to overpower by accident.  You can see in wrong ways video, he can over torque the wheel just from a stand still.  I dont mean to doubt you, you have more information available to you than i do.  

All im saying is the tiltback is a safety mechanism not crutch, it wont work if the wheel is out of torque.  Constantly pushing a wheel to its safety margin is not how they are designed to work. 

I'm sad man...I understand but I am sad. 

[Chaotropic]

I don’t understand. 
 

When I accelerate too hard the wheel beeps at me like a nut. If I go too fast it tilts me back. 
 

This shouldn’t happen without warning. I’ve never pushed it as hard as OP (max power at 3800), but I’m always at the speed limit. 100% 70% 50% battery even at 30% battery. The wheel always warns me either beeping or tilting. 
 

Is it possible you missed the beep? 

[GoGeorgeGo]

1 hour ago, Chaotropic said:

I don’t understand. 
 

When I accelerate too hard the wheel beeps at me like a nut. If I go too fast it tilts me back. 
 

This shouldn’t happen without warning. I’ve never pushed it as hard as OP (max power at 3800), but I’m always at the speed limit. 100% 70% 50% battery even at 30% battery. The wheel always warns me either beeping or tilting. 
 

Is it possible you missed the beep? 

Its always possible at high speed you might not hear beeps.  But its important to know the v11 gets to high speeds easily if your gentle.  Its hard acceleration that is dangerous not a speed limit.  

The v11 will let you push it 35 mph with no tiltback or beeps if your gentle with it.  Its the power sag that gets you in trouble.  You can cutout as easily at 25 mph as you can at 35 mph from cranking on the acceleration.  An 84v wheel just has less battery sag safety margin to spin up with.  Its the double edge sword of power pads.  They give amazing levels of control, but they also open up the ability to over torque a wheel much easier.  

[EUChristian]

1 hour ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

Its always possible at high speed you might not hear beeps.  But its important to know the v11 gets to high speeds easily if your gentle.  Its hard acceleration that is dangerous not a speed limit.  

The v11 will let you push it 35 mph with no tiltback or beeps if your gentle with it.  Its the power sag that gets you in trouble.  You can cutout as easily at 25 mph as you can at 35 mph from cranking on the acceleration.  An 84v wheel just has less battery sag safety margin to spin up with.  Its the double edge sword of power pads.  They give amazing levels of control, but they also open up the ability to over torque a wheel much easier.  

The point i keep trying to make is i wasn't cranking on the acceleration and I wasn't at the limit. This was normal acceleration. The wheel just stopped working. 

[EUChristian]

2 hours ago, Chaotropic said:

I don’t understand. 
 

When I accelerate too hard the wheel beeps at me like a nut. If I go too fast it tilts me back. 
 

This shouldn’t happen without warning. I’ve never pushed it as hard as OP (max power at 3800), but I’m always at the speed limit. 100% 70% 50% battery even at 30% battery. The wheel always warns me either beeping or tilting. 
 

Is it possible you missed the beep? 

Did not miss the beep- its me screaming at myself to slow down- and this was not hard acceleration. And I wasn't close to tiltback speed yet. This should not have happened on any wheel period.

[EUChristian]

1 hour ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

Its always possible at high speed you might not hear beeps.  But its important to know the v11 gets to high speeds easily if your gentle.  Its hard acceleration that is dangerous not a speed limit.  

The v11 will let you push it 35 mph with no tiltback or beeps if your gentle with it.  Its the power sag that gets you in trouble.  You can cutout as easily at 25 mph as you can at 35 mph from cranking on the acceleration.  An 84v wheel just has less battery sag safety margin to spin up with.  Its the double edge sword of power pads.  They give amazing levels of control, but they also open up the ability to over torque a wheel much easier.  

I have a KS16 and I cannot overlean it without purposely trying to. I have hit tiltback hundreds of times. You cannot tell me this significant upgrade in power, motor and voltage has less protection than an 800 watt motor. Ludicrous. 

[xiiijojjo]

I don't know inmotion software and only have experience with gotway wheels. I remember initially gotways were considered dangerous because they allowed you to go past the 80% beeps resulting in a lot of injuries until people learned that nothing is wrong with gotway (in that respect) and that pushing a wheel beyond 80% capacity or more is incredibly reckless and more importantly rider error. This is why i have come to love the gotway system with 80% beeps as my hard limit for speed, because anything more than that is incredibly reckless.

I remember my first wheel the MSuper v3 i had seen it advertised as a 40km/h wheel. What do i do? I learn how to ride it without protective gear and proceed to speed test it 1 month later when i was confident at high speed. Well it did go 40km/h when pushing past the 80%beeps but then i hit a pothole and ate about 10m of coarse asphalt with no gear... Now i understand what that advertisement meant. 

Anyone who pushes their wheels past 80% or so is begging for a mouth full of asphalt if not today then down the line hopefully when the time eventually comes they will be wearing a helmet like yourself. 

My point is you are pointing blame in the wrong direction here. This euc was not made for doing 55 km/h sustainably if you want those kinds of speeds you need to buy a sherman or gotway wheel in order to have a safety margin of higher potential speed although limiting yourself to say 55. 

Also just as a PSA for anyone who wants to go say 35km/h, 55 km/h or 75km/h sustainably just get a wheel that has a top speed of say 20km/h more and you will be safe in most situations. The reason the big bois on this forum keep talking about over-engineering these wheels are to make cutouts virtually impossible which i suspect is responsible for more than 50% of euc accidents and some of the worst ones at that.

[Wgm]

This is turning out to be the next 16x

[gon2fast]

Wishing you a quick recovery. 

[Inmotion Global]

hi，

We are deeply sad to hear that you encounter a cutout on your V11 at such high speed. Hope you can recover from the fall soon. Can you upload the log in the app so we can know what cause the cutout.

 

Regards

Liam

[Tryptych]

2 hours ago, Wgm said:

This is turning out to be the next 16x

Keep in mind there are 1000s of us who have had no problems. The very few that do have a problem tend to speak up loudly and get much more attention than the silent majority.  This makes it difficult to tell what is really going on in the big picture. Myself: this is the first high speed V11 cutout I've heard about. I consider this wheel very safe after riding it 500km without issue - the suspension has saved me from pothole-type wipeouts more than once. It is very safe so far.

Personally: for my first year on the V11 I am capped at 45kmh (and I am only 150lb), and for winter I reduce it even further to 40kmh when it's below freezing outside. It couldn't hurt to be more cautious until you're really familiar with the wheel.

OP: See if you can investigate further, were you running EUC World w/ logging? It might be good to have someone review those files - make sure you follow up with InMotion.  I hope you get better physically and mentally and someday soon can get back on your wheel  - maybe with a lower speed cap. Lastly I recommend padded shorts - they have literally saved my ass (and hips) in a high speed cutout on my old wheel, plus they are easy and comfortable to wear.

 

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

13 hours ago, EUChristian said:

 This was at fast acceleration but certainly not what I would consider full tilt.  

 

5 hours ago, EUChristian said:

The point i keep trying to make is i wasn't cranking on the acceleration and I wasn't at the limit. This was normal acceleration. The wheel just stopped working. 

...and today it was no acceleration? 

[stephen]

Lean pads are great for acceleration  but it's so easy to get more power from your euc without noticing, maybe you didn't realise you was leaning on them during your high speed you've only got to lean on them a little bit to add extra spikes 

[Wgm]

33 minutes ago, Tryptych said:

Keep in mind there are 1000s of us who have had no problems. The very few that do have a problem tend to speak up loudly and get much more attention than the silent majority.  This makes it difficult to tell what is really going on in the big picture. Myself: this is the first high speed V11 cutout I've heard about. I consider this wheel very safe after riding it 500km without issue - the suspension has saved me from pothole-type wipeouts more than once. It is very safe so far.

Personally: for my first year on the V11 I am capped at 45kmh (and I am only 150lb), and for winter I reduce it even further to 40kmh when it's below freezing outside. It couldn't hurt to be more cautious until you're really familiar with the wheel.

OP: See if you can investigate further, were you running EUC World w/ logging? It might be good to have someone review those files - make sure you follow up with InMotion.  I hope you get better physically and mentally and someday soon can get back on your wheel  - maybe with a lower speed cap. Lastly I recommend padded shorts - they have literally saved my ass (and hips) in a high speed cutout on my old wheel, plus they are easy and comfortable to wear.

 

Nah, this is like the 6th issues where either the board died or it was pushed too hard on this forum.   I mean I am sure its a great wheel within it's limits.   But finding those limits seems dangerous.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Wgm

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

My first V8 worked always fine, it beeped at me an tilted me back if I'm deaf, but then on a sunny Sunday I faceplanted without any beep and without tiltback. 

But that was my fault and not the V8 fault. I accelerated just to fast and to long in combination with a little bump. 

Since then I know that beeps and tiltback can be passed if you accelerate to aggressive beyond the wheels capabilites.