WARNING KINGSONG PRODUCTS

[Circuitmage]

I think, in this era of integrated FW into modern electronics...it's better to be safe than sorry and just buy from an authorized dealer.

Even "authentic" products nowadays suffer from THEIR components being counterfeited. Sad but true.

[Vulkov]

1 hour ago, Circuitmage said:

I think, in this era of integrated FW into modern electronics...it's better to be safe than sorry and just buy from an authorized dealer.

Even "authentic" products nowadays suffer from THEIR components being counterfeited. Sad but true.

That's all fine and well everyone is free to make their judgement and purchase from wherever they want. In this case (my 16x was bought from a UK guy) the person that bought the wheel from AliExpress bought it from a very very reputable AliExpress store and the wheel is absolutely the same as a new wheel sold in EU or US. For KingSong to completely disable a wheel just because it was sold by an "unauthorized" source is complete crazy town territory. The only thing that can happen is them losing more customers than their margins taking a hit just because some people decided to take a risk with an aliexpress listing and wait a whole month or two for the thing to arrive if it even arrives in the first place. Instead of punishing potentially unsuspecting end consumers like me, they should sort their contracts with the aliexpress store owners IMO. Obviously, I have no idea how that works or if it even can work but ethically locking a perfectly functional product does not stand right with me.

[Meulebeest]

1 hour ago, Circuitmage said:

I think, in this era of integrated FW into modern electronics...it's better to be safe than sorry and just buy from an authorized dealer.

Even "authentic" products nowadays suffer from THEIR components being counterfeited. Sad but true.

I understand that Research and Development / Intellectual Property needs protection and reward, but that is not the case here.
It is the same R&D / IP (Chinese manufacturer), only their resell / distribution model is geographically different.

SInce you are in the USA, it doesn't affect you that much, seen the fair prices (you pay 1900 USD for a KS S18, including the reseller margin > see my other message in this thread).

To make a quick analogy, would you buy a car e.g. BMW 530i Xdrive  for 76.000 USD just because the brand says so for your country (no value added, just another distribution model), if you know that globally it sells on average 55k to consumers, at other geographical locactions (current US MSRP ~ 55k USD).

[musk]

<deleted this post> because I was in a bad mood when I wrote it.

Edited August 6, 2020 by musk

[musk]

27 minutes ago, Meulebeest said:

To make a quick analogy, would you buy a car e.g. BMW 530i Xdrive  for 76.000 USD just because the brand says so for your country (no value added, just another distribution model), if you know that globally it sells on average 55k to consumers, at other geographical locactions (current US MSRP ~ 55k USD).

It is rare for a product to be priced the same all around the world.  Market dictates the upper price boundary, and input costs (including R&D) set the low price boundary for a typical business.

Edited August 6, 2020 by musk

[Vulkov]

6 minutes ago, musk said:

This whole situation seems really strange, both in the purchaser expectations and the communication.  We've got a brand new forum poster who purchased a wheel using two layers of sketchiness, and complains that they weren't warned by either the aliexpress seller or the private seller.  Dude, you bought from Ali-freaking-Express through an 4th party intermediary!  It's hard to make a purchase sketchier than that.  Then you complain to the manufacturer that you "weren't informed".  Informed by whom?  The aliexpress seller breaking their distribution agreement, or the private seller selling non-working goods?

Then they come onto an enthusiast forum and blast out an extraordinarily broad warning about "Kingsong products" to a community who only has three main manufacturers and is already hyper aware of the those manufacturers and don't seem to have the same problems.

If you buy a Nikon camera in Thailand, they don't give you service in the USA.  There are many products like this.  Aliexpress is a risk/reward tradeoff, and you got burned.

I'm not sure if you are misunderstanding something here. Did you read this? :

 

38 minutes ago, Vulkov said:

That's all fine and well everyone is free to make their judgement and purchase from wherever they want. In this case (my 16x was bought from a UK guy) the person that bought the wheel from AliExpress bought it from a very very reputable AliExpress store and the wheel is absolutely the same as a new wheel sold in EU or US. For KingSong to completely disable a wheel just because it was sold by an "unauthorized" source is complete crazy town territory. The only thing that can happen is them losing more customers than their margins taking a hit just because some people decided to take a risk with an aliexpress listing and wait a whole month or two for the thing to arrive if it even arrives in the first place. Instead of punishing potentially unsuspecting end consumers like me, they should sort their contracts with the aliexpress store owners IMO. Obviously, I have no idea how that works or if it even can work but ethically locking a perfectly functional product does not stand right with me.

I researched the heck out of the Kingsong 16x before making a purchase. Never, not even once did I come across someone saying that you will not be able to use a wheel bought from anywhere else other than your region. There were posts about locked wheels but the general consensus IN ALL of them was that there is a solution and that was EUC World or the iOS darknessbot app. In my case, EUC World did not work but another app did. As long as I don't connect it to the internet and/or my GPS signal it does not keep on locking the wheel. In the end, I made the post before I managed to unlock it. The reason for the posts is to bring awareness because this is a niche market. Many newcomers come in and no one is obliged to read every post on everything EUC related before making their decision. In the EU the prices are way higher than in the US. Many people might feel like buying through sites such as AliExpress. In my case, I saw a good opportunity in a UK seller that had this wheel still in the box because he bought another one while waiting for this one. Now please go to my original post and read it again. Where is the warning " extraordinarily broad"  except for the title? Go back and read my post. The simpler it is the better chance people will see it and think twice before buying their products from you know where at this point. Lastly address me personally and try to be respectful even in writing. It is the grown-up thing to do is it not? 

You seem kind of ticked off? Maybe try some yoga or meditation it helps.

[Meulebeest]

3 hours ago, musk said:

It is rare for a product to be priced the same all around the world.  Market dictates the upper price boundary, and input costs (including R&D) set the low price boundary for a typical business.

Current observation: It seems to be more difficult to get this point across than I initially thought.

You are right for price difference on products on a global scale, for various reasons: import taxes, sales taxes, tax penalties, incentives, market penetration, segmentation, marketing, consumer means(wealth), currency fluctuations, materials,  ...
(FYI: I am aware of market economics, as I manage them in professional life.)
And they most certainly apply to manufactured goods ...

But my point is that in a niche market (EUC's) a lot of these drivers are not valid and therefore do not justify such price difference.
(my inital message: KSS18 > in US 1600 EUR, in RUS 1400 EUR, in EU 2250 EUR ...)

All is Asian/Chinese manufactured (sole production assembly, multiple parts suppliers), so single product. So same construction and inherent MTBF, ...
Global resellers need to import with the related inconveniences (tax, delays, ...) but not that different.
And big warranty ... mmmh, if it really fails, it is all back to China. 
(Maybe a bit too much, but hey I drive a Ninebot Z10, and we all know how that support story goes ... you're on your own )

Not everyone has a great distributor=reseller ewheels (or ecodrift, or ...), 
And therefore a lot of enthusiasts buy from alternative channels, seen this distribution model.
If you judge the Asian commerce platform as a bad no-no, know that you can buy at a more reasonable price - from the European perspective.
Hell, buy 3 get a 4th for free ..

So KingSong geolocking (which mainly prohibited within EU) is something several of consumer / EUC riders don't agree with.
And it seems that the main reason for doing so, is to protect the indirect distribution/reseller model - more middleman - but to what value ?

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Meulebeest
Whoopsie - too soon

[Rywokast]

7 minutes ago, Meulebeest said:

So KingSong geolocking (which mainly prohibited within EU) is something several of consumer / EUC riders don't agree with.
And it seems that the main reason for doing so, is to protect the indirect distribution/reseller model - more middleman - but to what value ?

this would be of zero benefit to them, and in fact a detriment.... which is why they dont do it..... they simply do not offer any sort of warranty if you buy from an aliexpress reseller because they are not certified dealers of kingsong products, which is very reasonable. it would be extremely unfair to local dealers who have huge operating costs relatively if people could just skip over them and order from chinese resellers and get the same warranty as someone who supported their local dealers... its reflects better on the brand if people can get support and repairs/parts for the vehicle they ordered locally rather than be shunned by someone who doesnt speak english and left with something that doesnt work as intended

[Meulebeest]

I know I am a critic

7 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

this would be of zero benefit to them, and in fact a detriment.... which is why they dont do it..... they simply do not offer any sort of warranty if you buy from an aliexpress reseller because they are not certified dealers of kingsong products, which is very reasonable.

But really what is a certified dealer ? What does he do for consumers ? 
(again, because everyone reads only snippets apparently and not the whole thread, I believe in the value coming from ewheels / ecodrift / ..., but not all of them are such caliber)
and I am not referring whether he puts a KingSong banner on his counter ...

 

8 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

 it would be extremely unfair to local dealers who have huge operating costs

Ok can you give me an idea what the huge operating costs would be that justify such a difference (KSS18 > in US 1600 EUR, in RUS 1400 EUR, in EU 2250 EUR ...)?
Maybe the Russian location is a bit less expensive, or the European wages include more securities and extended warranty.
But we 're not comparing 3rd world countries ...
(on a global scale there are less and less that qualify "3rd world countries", hurray humanity).

 

22 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

its reflects better on the brand if people can get support and repairs/parts for the vehicle they ordered locally rather than be shunned by someone who doesnt speak english and left with something that doesnt work as intended

My estimate is that a lot of people in the current EUC community are self-sufficient (or organize themselves to be)  and understand English (or have easy access to translations), but local support is nice, certainly if they are knowledgeable (note that there are also smaller enthusiasts who have EUC side-dish).

 

Now in general I know what you're referring to and in general I agree, but I had to push it a bit to get a more broad introspective perspective ... certainly because the Kingsong sales model is a loss ... which is regrettable.

 

 

[Rywokast]

20 minutes ago, Meulebeest said:

I know I am a critic

But really what is a certified dealer ? What does he do for consumers ? 
(again, because everyone reads only snippets apparently and not the whole thread, I believe in the value coming from ewheels / ecodrift / ..., but not all of them are such caliber)
and I am not referring whether he puts a KingSong banner on his counter ...

im pretty sure it is anyone but aliexpress lmao, anyone not in china besides kingsong themselves... that greatly depends on the specific dealers themselves like you said... as i am not one i cant tell you, but im pretty sure they would have some form of contract with kingsong and be required to offer some level of support/warranty.. surely you could contact kingsong support if you were unsure of the validity of a local dealer

 

Ok can you give me an idea what the huge operating costs would be that justify such a difference (KSS18 > in US 1600 EUR, in RUS 1400 EUR, in EU 2250 EUR ...)?
Maybe the Russian location is a bit less expensive, or the European wages include more securities and extended warranty.
But we 're not comparing 3rd world countries ...
(on a global scale there are less and less that qualify "3rd world countries", hurray humanity).

owning and operating/updating a website, paying employees, paying local customs/taxes/import fees, maintaining a physical warehouse, arranging shipments, and optionally offering local repairs and keeping stock of parts for many different vehicles

 

My estimate is that a lot of people in the current EUC community are self-sufficient (or organize themselves to be)  and understand English (or have easy access to translations), but local support is nice, certainly if they are knowledgeable (note that there are also smaller enthusiasts who have EUC side-dish).

your estimate would probably be correct if we were talking about the euc community on THIS FORUM... the vast majority of euc owners are not active on this forum, i would go so far as to say the vast majority dont even have the tools or the know how to change a tire lol

 

Now in general I know what you're referring to and in general I agree, but I had to push it a bit to get a more broad introspective perspective ... certainly because the Kingsong sales model is a loss ... which is regrettable.

again, im pretty sure they have contracts with dealers especially in europe who have huge taxes/import fees compared to north america that specify in order for them to sell kingsong products, kingsong must attempt to prevent people from purchasing from aliexpress in order to skirt these fees, otherwise everyone would do it and it would not be feasible for those dealers to bother with kingsong.... in turn having local dealers and support promotes the kingsong brand and also improves their image in the euc community as safe and reliable..... if you look at gotway in comparison they dont give a rats ass where you got it and their products and brand are known for the complete opposite, but they took another direction and cornered the extreme enthusiast/adrenaline junkie market.. whereas inmotion has the most money and they use it on advertising and pumping out the most wheels that are well known, well rounded, safe and easy.. thats why they sell the most wheels by far even though most people here prefer one of the others... and thats why ninebot folded because they could not find their user base and fell behind

again i reiterate, unless they just changed it.. kingsong DO NOT geo lock wheels in any way, they simply do not offer warranty services from aliexpress resellers

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Rywokast

[Schmudel]

Guys,

you have to keep in mind that if you buy a unicycle in Europe the sales tax is included in the advertised price. Her in North America the sales tax will be added to the advertised price. Also the sales tax in Europe is usually at least 19% or even higher, her in Canada for example it starts at 5%. So there is a big difference right there.

just my to cents.

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, Rywokast said:

it would be extremely unfair to local dealers who have huge operating costs relatively if people could just skip over them and order from chinese resellers and get the same warranty as someone who supported their local dealers... its reflects better on the brand if people can get support and repairs/parts for the vehicle they ordered locally rather than be shunned by someone who doesnt speak english and left with something that doesnt work as intended

Supporting local businesses is a nice thing to do, but does not in any way affect the liability the manufacturer has to their products, which is even written in the EU law.

1 hour ago, Rywokast said:

required to offer some level of support/warranty.

...

owning and operating/updating a website, paying employees, paying local customs/taxes/import fees, maintaining a physical warehouse, arranging shipments, and optionally offering local repairs and keeping stock of parts for many different vehicles

All good in theory. Let me tell you how it is in practice for a smaller (technologically and otherwise quite advanced and very much not a 3rd world) country.

All of the following is of course only AFAIK: There is just one authorized KS distributor. They are actually just a he, and he sells maybe 10 wheels or less in a year. He doesn't have a warehouse or a store, doesn't usually have any (at least modern) wheels or parts for them in stock, nor does he offer local repairs beyond the basic ones most riders could just as well do themselves. A wheel requiring warranty would have to be shipped (or taken personally) to him only for him to ship it to KS. And back the same way.

Of the things you mentioned, the only thing he really does is pay the local taxes and fees, and redirects packages. (I personally own, operate and update a website roughly at the same level as the distributor's, for free.)

In my personal opinion, it would reflect infinitely better on a brand if they would instead:

• Sell products in a global marketplace, whose every EUC seller has been discussed and reviewed at our forum.
• Be available for purchase from a shop that sells and handles a reasonable amount of EUC sales and warranty cases.
• Offer support directly to the customer, without the delays of a middle man just redirecting packages and translating messages.
• Make it perfectly clear that they care first and foremost about the customer, and are thankful for you choosing their $2000 product.

Claiming that what KS aims for is better for the customer is nothing but a joke for most countries.

Quote

again i reiterate, unless they just changed it.. kingsong DO NOT geo lock wheels in any way, they simply do not offer warranty services from aliexpress resellers

Whether it happens because of an app bug, server jam, or on purpose, they most certainly do. They even sent an email to the official distributors early this year saying that starting in March, any unofficial KS wheel will be locked when connected to the new KS app. (The app was of course late by several months.) As is widely known, they also limit the 3rd party app functionality by having DarknessBot and EUC World developers sign an agreement not to offer firmware updates, speed settings and calibration for unofficial KS units for them to even get KS connectivity in the first place. This is true for example on my 16S that was bought back in 2017, back when KS wheels were widely available at Ali, and KS having said anything anywhere about them being an unofficial distribution channel.

Edited August 6, 2020 by mrelwood

[Unventor]

6 hours ago, Meulebeest said:

To make a quick analogy, would you buy a car e.g. BMW 530i Xdrive  for 76.000 USD just because the brand says so for your country (no value added, just another distribution model), if you know that globally it sells on average 55k to consumers, at other geographical locactions (current US MSRP ~ 55k USD).

Well when you buy from a reseller in tour country then you buy at the laws that apply there. That means warranty time and claim will differ between countries. If eg. Norway you have 5 years very strong warranty, in UK only 1 year. Logistics and service facilities cost are different too. Salary for employees and rent for office or workshop are very different. So when you say fair prices are you then comparing fair cost too?

I can only say I would love to have a reseller in my city. It would be so much more convenient when (not if) a problem occur, more local rides too from seeing the shop and events and demos made possible locally. Option to testing wheels too would be great. Compare that with buying g at Chinese terms at AliExpress store that you have language and contact problems with. 

Now I grew up in Denmark so don't even think comparing prices in any country to the Danish price as government tax it heavily (used to be 180% now it depends eco class but mostly 150%) and with limited or cut out equipment. 

My Mazda I bought in Sweden (Cx-5 2.5L gas/benson automatic  highest equipment option at 345.000sek or 250.000 dkr or 33.500€ or 40.000$. Same specs in Denmark would be around 550.000sek at the time).

You can can't compare prices that simple.

[UniVehje]

6 hours ago, Meulebeest said:

KSS18 > in US 1600 EUR, in RUS 1400 EUR, in EU 2250 EUR ...)

My preorder price from a distributor in EU, with mandatory 2 year warranty and VAT was 2000 €. That’s 1600 € without VAT and the US price is always quoted without it, so pretty similar from the dealer’s point of view. And that’s what AliExpress sellers ask as well, but they skip the warranty and cheat on the VAT and custom duties. 
 

The middle-man doesn’t bring a lot of value for us who are discussing wheels on this forum. But I guess the manufacturers would like to promote local dealerships who will promote these products in their respective countries and offer support locally and in their language. That kind of network is difficult to build if customers just buy from China. It’s really not the manufacturer’s core business or competence to offer customer support world wide, even only in English.
I really do understand their dilemma. But I still think KS is not acting wisely here. They should do everything they can to make the customer happy and buy their wheel again and even recommended it to their friends. When they get the serial number they know exactly when that wheel left the factory and who it was shipped to. They coud just stop selling to that customer. It makes no sense to punish the end customer who has already made the decision to buy a KS wheel. Inmotion has the same exact dilemma and their wheels work even when bought from Ali. But the warranty is always offered only through the dealer. 

[Unventor]

I would like to add here that my KS16X was bought from @EUniCycles.eu and with the 1st batch issues, I have had I am very glad that I bought it from him. It was a pre-order price too and I were lucky to put it in at last minute the next day it got bumped up as his pre-order limit was booked. 

I have had it for service 2 times and all has been covered buy the reseller. I would place my order here again without a doubt again. Unless I get a national reseller in Sweden. 

Now my V11 I bought from Inmotion, but that is because of very special circumstances that will not happen again. This is because the close contact I have had since January up until launch of prebookings. Both Kingsong and Inmotion have said they will assist local authorities resellers and this is why they don't like domestic Chinese resellers buying  not necessarily from the manufactor but other places to resell. So the larger an order the bigger discount the first distributor gets. He/she can then break up this to more resellers and they don't have to deal with the end consumer. 

Another way to add a distributor discounts is bonus discounts once they hit certain order figures for the year. 

Now I am not a reseller so I don't know the profit on each wheel sold. But it is how parallel importing operates for my company's products. My companyes products are made for different regions to match what is required for that region to function right and to get correctvmanual kits and accessories too.

I cannot say it always works better with a local reseller, my first reseller from.Poland went out of business. But @EUniCycles.eu has been very got. Yes first time was unfortunate service time, but that was due to not known g about risk of water damage vulnerability. The 2nd service was stellar and I can only blame myself for the time as I gave the reseller options to help other customers due to me having multiple wheels to ride. As I view it I'd a 2ways street. If I can be flexible then reseller relation becomes better to help when I might need not so straight forward help. Call it karma if you like.

[Meulebeest]

22 hours ago, Rywokast said:

owning and operating/updating a website, paying employees, paying local customs/taxes/import fees, maintaining a physical warehouse, arranging shipments, and optionally offering local repairs and keeping stock of parts for many different vehicles

Good summary of operating cost that would normally translate in margins on sales, but the question was - ... that justify such a difference

Unless the Europeans have a more shiny website, pay more to their employees,  have a bigger warehouse, ... than ewheels or than Ecodrift ... you catch my drift ...

(My estimate is that the operating costs are similar (not the same) from an economic perspective, for those resellers I mentioned before ... )

 

20 hours ago, Unventor said:

Well when you buy from a reseller in tour country then you buy at the laws that apply there. That means warranty time and claim will differ between countries. If eg. Norway you have 5 years very strong warranty, in UK only 1 year. Logistics and service facilities cost are different too. Salary for employees and rent for office or workshop are very different. So when you say fair prices are you then comparing fair cost too?

Warranty might be an additional cost driver, but not to that extent (Otherwise Europeans would then calculate 1/4 wheels fail mathematically), European warranty is 2Y (in Belgium, with less for batteries)

No, I believe there is a European distributor (middleman), and so for some the sales channel is:

1. Manufacturer (incl subcontractors) >  Reseller/Point of Sales > Consumer, like (Ewheels / Ecodrift)
2. And for others it is Manufacturer (incl subcontractors) >  Distributor (ADD margins) > Reseller/Point of Sales (local shop) > Consumer

 

16 hours ago, UniVehje said:

My preorder price from a distributor in EU, with mandatory 2 year warranty and VAT was 2000 €. That’s 1600 € without VAT and the US price is always quoted without it, so pretty similar from the dealer’s point of view. And that’s what AliExpress sellers ask as well, but they skip the warranty and cheat on the VAT and custom duties. 
 

I asked @Rehab1 what he paid (purchased ewheels KS S18) and he confirmed 1899 USD + shipping costs (the expedite version ) - no additional tax.

PS: Current Chicway shop offer for KS S18 is approx 1450 EUR (incl shipping / handling / taxes), similar price as ecodrift sales.
But indeed no warranty / service apart from DOA ...

Skipping taxes - I don't know, they did successfully for multiple years then already without ever being caught ...
But apart from the presumed tax evasion, why would that bother KingSong  ? It bothers us a righteous citizens off course ...

My justice feeling wouldn't be that ticked off, if in Europe we had similar reseller / prices similar to others ...
Then I would go with the flow ...

 

I 'l leave it at that: KingSong's sales approach is not a winning model, and back to the origin of geolocking:

22 hours ago, Rywokast said:

again i reiterate, unless they just changed it.. kingsong DO NOT geo lock wheels in any way, they simply do not offer warranty services from aliexpress resellers

It would be nice if there were an official statement of this intent ...

 

PS2: 44 orders on the KSS18 to this date, 6 on the iNM V11 (chicway), seems like a lot of similar brain trains ...

 

[Rywokast]

4 minutes ago, Meulebeest said:

It would be nice if there were an official statement of this intent ...

thats according to their official rep here, so.. unless that just changed without anyones knowledge, that is the official statement

[Unventor]

14 minutes ago, Meulebeest said:

 

PS2: 44 orders on the KSS18 to this date, 6 on the iNM V11 (chicway), seems like a lot of similar brain trains

Inmotion have more countries they have local resellers in. And they too issues about 2 years ago not to buy from Aliexpress similar to what Kingsong did. Only shop they refer to is their own global international Aliexpress store. 

Now most resellers I have seen in Europe is a 1 or top 3 people operation. And often run as a side business too. Now eg. Speedyfeet.co.uk sell PEVs (and part of that is EUC). But their main business is a different company selling paintgun stuff.

If you think brands read your post then, this is unlikely to happen unless you tag their representative on you message. 

You might be unhappy about the prices but in general everything cost more in EU but most people have higher salaries to other regions. Like it or not that is how the world spins still.

[null]

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

You might be unhappy about the prices but in general everything cost more in EU but most people have higher salaries to other regions. Like it or not that is how the world spins still.

The problem isn’t EU standards and wages, as a Norwegian 18XL went for 1900€ all included for very long, the problem is « Kingsong europe » who kept the price upward 2500€ In their area. It’s fairly recent the price have been going down from that.

Im all for healthy margins but not price gouging and fixing just « because they can ».

Edited August 7, 2020 by null

[mrelwood]

Since @Jack King Song said that KS wouldn’t geo lock their wheels, I’ve been brace enough to keep the KS app and the fw up to date on a 16S, my spare wheel. The wheel was bought in 2017, back when Ali was pretty much the only viable purchase channel for us. Before an official distributor in our country.

 The latest app update locked my wheel as soon as the wheel and the app were on at the same time. Let’s see what Jack can/will do come Monday.

I am convinced. KS does lock their own wheels, in spite of the consumer who have paid dear money and chose a KS wheel above others.

 Never again.

Edited August 9, 2020 by mrelwood

[Wolverine]

30 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

 The latest app update locked my wheel as soon as the wheel and the app were on at the same time. Let’s see what Jack can/will do come Monday.

Omg! When did this happen to you?

King Song is definitely out of my list!

Edited August 9, 2020 by Wolverine
KS ouf of my list.

[mhpr262]

WTF man. I can tell the "internet" of things is going to suck, hard. I found out only yesterdaay that my Xiaomi M365 scooter has bluetooth and can send all sorts of data to my cellphone with the right app. When I installed that crap it couldnt grab enough of my data. Fotos, videos, music, my location, it wanted to know everything you can imagine. Thinking about uninstalling it again. I mostly wanted to know how many kilometers myy scooter had in total (as I had bought it used), it had 289km total. Thats all I need to know really.

[Scottie888]

12 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Since @Jack King Song said that KS wouldn’t geo lock their wheels, I’ve been brace enough to keep the KS app and the fw up to date on a 16S, my spare wheel. The wheel was bought in 2017, back when Ali was pretty much the only viable purchase channel for us. Before an official distributor in our country.

 The latest app update locked my wheel as soon as the wheel and the app were on at the same time. Let’s see what Jack can/will do come Monday.

I am convinced. KS does lock their own wheels, in spite of the consumer who have paid dear money and chose a KS wheel above others.

 Never again.

If thats the case, I'll never buy a Kingsong product again & make it my mission to let other know & it sure won't take much to convince them of same. I can understand no warranty with gray market products but I cannot & not ever accept the deliberate crippling of a fully paid product.

What mfgrs can do (& alot do) is to disallow dealers to sell offshore as part of their dealer franchise agreement. What mfgrs cannot do is penalize the end user for buying a fully legal product for sale, online or otherwise.

 

Edited On: @Jack King Song FWIW I was planning on either giving my present Tesla to the missus or selling it if I have to & getting a KS 16X to replace it as my allround city wheel. Now honestly, I'd rather get a MSX/MSP instead even though I like the form factor of the 16X a lot more. There is no excuse for penalizing your customers for your inability to govern your dealer network. IMHO if this deliberate crippling of your own products continue, it's easy to see the end of Kingsong as a viable business. Maybe its a cultural thing but I would (like to) think that we in the West will not submit to intimidation business tactics. Ofcos as always, YMMV 

Edited August 9, 2020 by Scottie888

[mrelwood]

So far I’ve read about two KS wheels bought from separate local EU shops that have turned out having a Chinese serial number. Still rare, but you could be punished from buying locally as well.

The warranty should make it a clear case for a replacement... Unless it only happens to you after the warranty is over.

 Buy KingSong. Maybe with luck your wheel won’t lock up on you in 3 years. Or later.

[meriwald]

Welcome to the fukxng transition from factory to a brand. This is a totally retarded answer from KS. The guy is not asking for any support, just DONT lock the wheel

fucking money grabbers

GotWay one love