King Song S18 Discussion

[FinRider]

26 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Comparing a fraction of a percent to a 100 % failure rate is not "the same". I feel very sorry for all S18 owners, since this is an all time low on functional 1st batch EUC issues, which was not expected. Most owners will not be able to fix their new wheels themselves, causing huge trouble due to shipping limitations on batteries for individuals all over the world.

Spot on.

Another reason for people to buy from your local reseller as they may have more resources helping out people who are not able to or who do not dare to attempt fixing these issues themselves on their own... Good luck if you bought it directly from Ali express etc...

 

[FinRider]

Jack posted this in the kingsong warning thread. It should be here as well.

 

[Steven89]

17 hours ago, RockyTop said:

Update: 

1) I added a small thin washer to the outside of the joint that was pictured and circled above. In my case the two suspension arms were not touching or grinding. ( just need to remove the large screw with large washer, place small thin washer that is smaller than the hole in the arm between the shoulder of the shoulder bolt  and the large washer.) 
2 ) removes slider wipers and sprayed proper oil in the top. Re installed wipers. 
3) adjusted bottom width of sliders by experimenting with the block width. Removed/ milled 0.010 inch from block and added shims. 
 

Results - night and day. I think that it might complete with the V11 on rough surfaces now while blowing the V11 away on the big bumps. 

Still not received my S18 but I'm writing down what I'll have to do...so:

1) I'm really bad at this "mechanical" things. Do a need to just replace the external washer with a thinner one? Was it difficoult?
3) I saw even the video. Nice!

 

Do anyone know if the Android App was solved?

[LeGiroquoi]

Yeah! So I wasn't crazy...

The suspension does have problems.

No way I could do that on my wheel. I have to sit on it and jump with all my weight to expose the shock. (Of course after I emptied the air)

15 hours ago, FinRider said:

  

 

[mrelwood]

 

43 minutes ago, Steven89 said:

1) I'm really bad at this "mechanical" things. Do a need to just replace the external washer with a thinner one? Was it difficoult?

You need to add a smaller washer under the large washer. It is not too difficult. At the moment the consensus seems to be as follows:

You'll need:

• Two allen/hex keys that fit well. Especially old ones can be too loose, causing you to strip the key hole.
• Washers that have the same size hole, but smaller outer diameter. I'm sure the exact measures will be posted soon.
• Lubricant. Silicone oil seems to be recommended often, but most lubricating oils will probably do as well.

The process:

• Set the suspension into a position where you have good access on both sides to the joint where the washer is located. Remove air from the suspension if needed.
• Put the hex key in the bolt on both sides, and loosen the bolt while holding the opposite side in place. After it starts to loosen, the outer side of the bolt is easily removed.
• Apply lubricant in every spot where metal touches metal. Apply to all other joints and the sliders as well, on everything that moves against something when the suspension moves.
• Hold the bolt in your hand, put the original washer on the bolt, then insert a smaller washer after that.
• Screw the bolt in place, again holding the opposite side in place with the other hex key. No need to put it as tight as it was, just enough that it won't loosen by itself.

This is what seems to be the best known tip for this specific joint. The tip may change as more smart and experienced guys think about better solutions.

[LeGiroquoi]

1 hour ago, FinRider said:

Jack posted this in the kingsong warning thread. It should be here as well.

 

Now that's a game changer for me!!!!😃

Wow what a difference. Although there was only one block on one side. None on the other side..

Or maybe it's only the wd-40??

[FinRider]

6 minutes ago, Eric plam said:

Now that's a game changer for me!!!!😃

Wow what a difference. Although there was only one block on one side. None on the other side..

Or maybe it's only the wd-40??

I had two blocks and removing these made the biggest difference.  
 

the linkage joint is the 2nd that needs attention, followed by all the other pivot points. 
 

still unresolved is the sliding feiction between the inner shell and the outer shell. This is very noticeable when moving the suspension with no pressure in the shock

[FinRider]

I put a bearing washer between the pivot points and a small washer under the big one. See pics below. Also notice the space difference in the linkage from left to right side. 

[eve]

JUST A BIG WARNING! Do not forget the most important part when using silicone spray or lubricants! 

YOU DO NOT WANT TO PUT It on any thing that needs to hold. Like the coilly part of the screws. So be careful with that cuz it might cause your screws to be loose.

Applying a degreaser if this already happend is the best solution. Then dry and reapply and make sure you dont apply it in the wrong places. You dont want your wheel to fall apart.

[FinRider]

24 minutes ago, eve said:

JUST A BIG WARNING! Do not forget the most important part when using silicone spray or lubricants! 

YOU DO NOT WANT TO PUT It on any thing that needs to hold. Like the coilly part of the screws. So be careful with that cuz it might cause your screws to be loose.

Applying a degreaser if this already happend is the best solution. Then dry and reapply and make sure you dont apply it in the wrong places. You dont want your wheel to fall apart.

Yeah, that is right. I did not mention it before but the bolts in the suspension with the pivoat arms and the gas shock all had blue locktite on the threads, so I do recommend to use this as well when you take it apart. I did not crank down on the bolts, they are just snug with a dab of loctite.

It is evident that the pivot points were fastened a fair bit from the factory, as is evident from the rubbing that the spacer has done on the outside of the arms in the pics above.

[eve]

Im will most likely take my S18 to a MTB shop and ask them what can be doune about the suspension. I think they know better then i do. 

[Feynman]

Maybe I don't see problems moving the suspension because I'm a fat@ss.  

Anyway, I'm going to assume you guys are right; that the suspension can be much better, and I'll do an overhaul replacing all the bearings, adding some thrust bearings in a few spots, replacing the shock (I bought a Fox DPS EVOL), and lubing everything with white lithium.  

It's unfortunate that the wheel has to be 95% disassembled to remove the linkage.  I'll post pics of the process, because why not.

[RockyTop]

2 hours ago, eve said:

Im will most likely take my S18 to a MTB shop and ask them what can be doune about the suspension. I think they know better then i do. 

Good idea. Just beware. My reactions at bicycle shops have all been very positive or very negative. A high end bike shop ran me off with a threat to call the police on my supposed illegal activities. “ Those things are illegal everywhere except your driveway!!!! “ Not true of corse. Just saying that some bike shops might not like the EUC competition in his shop or on the bike ways. 

[RockyTop]

2 hours ago, Feynman said:

Maybe I don't see problems moving the suspension because I'm a fat@ss.  

Here is something that you might notice. After making the changes I had to increase the shock pressures by 20 psi to keep from bottoming out. 

Edited August 21, 2020 by RockyTop

[eve]

4 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

Good idea. Just beware. My reactions at bicycle shops have all been very positive or very negative. A high end bike shop ran me off with a threat to call the police on my supposed illegal activities. “ Those things are illegal everywhere except your driveway!!!! “ Not true of corse. Just saying that some bike shops might not like the EUC competition in his shop or on the bike ways. 

I dont have to worry about that in the country im living. Here every person working in a shop will be nice to a customer no matter what. 

Worst case scenario is they tell me they wont or cant help me.

[FinRider]

23 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

Good idea. Just beware. My reactions at bicycle shops have all been very positive or very negative. A high end bike shop ran me off with a threat to call the police on my supposed illegal activities. “ Those things are illegal everywhere except your driveway!!!! “ Not true of corse. Just saying that some bike shops might not like the EUC competition in his shop or on the bike ways. 

Wow! The bike shop should just get on board and start selling & servicing euc’s!

[FinRider]

2 hours ago, Feynman said:

Maybe I don't see problems moving the suspension because I'm a fat@ss.  

Anyway, I'm going to assume you guys are right; that the suspension can be much better, and I'll do an overhaul replacing all the bearings, adding some thrust bearings in a few spots, replacing the shock (I bought a Fox DPS EVOL), and lubing everything with white lithium.  

It's unfortunate that the wheel has to be 95% disassembled to remove the linkage.  I'll post pics of the process, because why not.

 

 

Nice looking bearing. Will you be installing one on each side? Pls do send pics... wont the ”bolt” be too short if you add these? I wanted to put one inbetween the linkeage, but at least one side does not have space enough...

[Feynman]

4 minutes ago, FinRider said:

Nice looking bearing. Will you be installing one on each side? Pls do send pics... wont the ”bolt” be too short if you add these? I wanted to put one inbetween the linkeage, but at least one side does not have space enough...

If I put some on the shock bolts, I'll cut down the spacers and put them on the inside.  I was just trying to show the bearing and that it's proper diameter.  I'm going to try to squeeze some in between to two linkage to linkage connections and linkage to slide assembly connections.  Not sure I'll have room, like you said.  I might end up milling out a recess in the slide assembly if necessary

Edited August 21, 2020 by Feynman
spelling

[mrelwood]

4 hours ago, eve said:

JUST A BIG WARNING! Do not forget the most important part when using silicone spray or lubricants!

When the treads are lubed, they tighten much easier. I have always lubed the treads, usually especially, and sometimes even only them, and I’ve never had any problems with screws or bolts getting loose on their own on anything. Actually the opposite in some occasions, since the rough treads on cheap Chinese bolts won’t tighten properly without lubing.

None of the bolts in the S18 suspension carry any forces pulling the bolts apart, so it would hold for a good while even with the male end of a bolt or a few got completely removed. Don’t worry.

[Feynman]

3 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

When the treads are lubed, they tighten much easier. I have always lubed the treads, usually especially, and sometimes even only them, and I’ve never had any problems with screws or bolts getting loose on their own on anything. Actually the opposite in some occasions, since the rough treads on cheap Chinese bolts won’t tighten properly without lubing.

None of the bolts in the S18 suspension carry any forces pulling the bolts apart, so it would hold for a good while even with the male end of a bolt or a few got completely removed. Don’t worry.

I noticed that the shock bolts had some blue thread locker on them when I took them off.  Probably not a bad idea to put thread locker on all the suspension bolts, pedal hanger bolts, and wheel axle block bolts IMO.  Better safe than sorry.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Feynman
spelling

[Tinkererboi]

1 hour ago, RockyTop said:

Good idea. Just beware. My reactions at bicycle shops have all been very positive or very negative. A high end bike shop ran me off with a threat to call the police on my supposed illegal activities. “ Those things are illegal everywhere except your driveway!!!! “ Not true of corse. Just saying that some bike shops might not like the EUC competition in his shop or on the bike ways. 

Wow, what an absolute snob. Hope he gets what's coming to him.

[Mark Wilson]

Check out @Hsiang's review of the S18. It shows that while the cosmetic side panels may not be the most durable, the internal structure of the wheel is. Also, at 12:20 he says the app has been updated to allow the lean cutoff angle to be adjusted? Is this true? It's the first I'm hearing of it. If so, that would be awesome!

 

 

[fbhb]

27 minutes ago, Mark Wilson said:

Also, at 12:20 he says the app has been updated to allow the lean cutoff angle to be adjusted? Is this true? It's the first I'm hearing of it. If so, that would be awesome!

@Mark Wilson @Jack King Song made a topic about it in the "Official King Song Announcement" thread recently:

 

 

[Mark Wilson]

43 minutes ago, fbhb said:

@Mark Wilson @Jack King Song made a topic about it in the "Official King Song Announcement" thread recently:

 

 

That post says: "EDIT: My apologies, it was only available for users who had an account (aka dealers), it'll be available on consumer app." 

Is it available on the regular consumer app yet?

[fbhb]

14 minutes ago, Mark Wilson said:

Is it available on the regular consumer app yet?

As far as I know, the Android app is supposed to be getting upgraded and being made available through the Play Store shortly.  Jack has mentioned on Telegram, that there is always a hold up with Google authorizing apps on the Play Store, so users need to be patient!  I cannot comment on the iOS equivalent, as I'm not and NEVER will be an Apple user!