King Song S18 Discussion

[Mark Wilson]

1 hour ago, redfoxdude said:

The main, upper chamber. The negative chamber assists compression. And the rebound wheel is all the way anti-clockwise?

He posted the video earlier:

4 hours ago, Eric plam said:

Good morning everyone

So I uploaded a video. If anyone can help..

I've seen the kuji videos and one from u-stride, and they do both seem to have nice rebounds. But not mine... Why..

https://photos.app.goo.gl/NUbTBtsyXB7LQUuT9

It was kind of hard to tell from your video, when you unweight the wheel how far does the top of the shock go back inside the body? It doesn't look like it goes back to an extended position.

Check out this video for comparison (especially the last few seconds) for how it should look when unweighted.

 

[LeGiroquoi]

I'll try again then!

And I'll shoot a better video if I don't succeed

Thanks

8 minutes ago, Mark Wilson said:

He posted the video earlier:

It was kind of hard to tell from your video, when you unweight the wheel how far does the top of the shock go back inside the body? It doesn't look like it goes back to an extended position.

Check out this video for comparison (especially the last few seconds) for how it should look when unweighted.

 

 

[redfoxdude]

@Eric plam 120 PSI in the main chamber sounds low. Can you try 160 or 170 PSI in the main chamber, and 50 PSI in the negative and see how that goes? It's entirely possible that there just isn't enough pressure in the positive chamber.

The recommended settings from King Song are a starting point, but you do need to fiddle with increasing or decreasing the pressure from their recommendation until you get the desired results.

Also as a note, there probably isn't air-loss when you disconnect the pump, that should just be the air in the pump's hose that you hear escaping.

Edited August 13, 2020 by redfoxdude

[LeGiroquoi]

So, me again

So I pumped it again.

At 100psi, the suspension wasn't close to hit the block on the pedals. It touched it at 150psi

I don't find the shock is entered in the shell enough.

See me just while mounting it. The shock already goes out. 

And then me jumping..

Is it normal, again

Sorry for wasting your day!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/gCkFkt9oqQ1bqeuM7

[redfoxdude]

It looks to me like you just don't have enough air in the shock. Try closer to 200 PSI in the positive chamber if 160-170 PSI isn't enough.

Also, just to be sure, when I say 160 PSI in positive and 50 in negative, do make sure that the pump is reading this with that plastic block in place. The pressure will read differently if the shock is compressed differently.

Edited August 13, 2020 by redfoxdude
Clarification

[LeGiroquoi]

Oh I must pump it while the shock closed (the blue lever)?

[redfoxdude]

2 minutes ago, Eric plam said:

Oh I must pump it while the shock closed (the blue lever)?

No, sorry I wasn't clear, I meant that the shock should be extended against the plastic block when you are taking your pressure measurement.

[LeGiroquoi]

Good but now I can't remove that block....

[redfoxdude]

Just now, Eric plam said:

Good but now I can't remove that block....

That's normal, you need to compress the shock with your body weight to free the block, as shown in King Song's video.

[LeGiroquoi]

Yeah sorry that was idiot. I shouldn't have wrote this 😳

Now, 160psi

1rst photo while I'm not in it, then when I just stepped on (it already goes out of the shell)

Then after one small jump, and stays there

https://photos.app.goo.gl/5ush3JGPgoynWptF9

Edited August 13, 2020 by Eric plam

[LeGiroquoi]

Next time I go near Bay area I'll pay you a beer!

[Feynman]

5 minutes ago, Eric plam said:

Yeah sorry that was idiot. I shouldn't have wrote this 😳

Now, 160psi

1rst photo while I'm not in it, then when I just stepped on (it already goes out of the shell)

Then after one small jump, and stays there

https://photos.app.goo.gl/5ush3JGPgoynWptF9

rebound wheel is all the way towards 'fast'? 

[redfoxdude]

1 minute ago, Eric plam said:

Yeah sorry that was idiot. I shouldn't have wrote this 😳

Now, 160psi

1rst photo while I'm not in it, then when I just stepped on (it already goes out of the shell)

Then after one small jump, and stays there

https://photos.app.goo.gl/5qKcdZLWkrzVwfx79

Ah, it is normal for it not to retract fully. When you are still on the wheel, you want it to settle around 30% compressed, aka 30% sag (this is actually preference, some may like 25%, others may like 40%). This gives the suspension a bit of travel in either direction, so it can soak up bumps, but also extend into dips as well. I'd say try 180 or 190 PSI and see how that feels! Then you can try increasing the negative pressure a bit to make it a bit more supple. But if you increase negative pressure a lot, do know that it will give you more sag, too.

1 minute ago, Eric plam said:

Next time I go near Bay area I'll pay you a beer!

Haha, appreciate it! I've just been having a lot of fun on my S18 and want others to have a good experience, too!

[LeGiroquoi]

Ok then I'll continue messing with it. Thanks again for your help.

I just guess it isn't going to be what I expected. I only wanted a suspension to smoothen the regular bumps of the road, not something to jump over ledges..

I tried over a really rocky road earlier today. A trail full of medium sized rocks, no gravel. And I didn't see the suspension going..

Anyhow. Maybe I'll keep it just to add to my collection and the kids will use it. Or I will sell. I don't think I'll have any fun with it. 

I would say it's my first real deception on a wheel. Everytime I order a new wheel it's such fun I want to keep them all! First time I want to trash one.. but maybe I just need some sleep😄

Anyhow

Thanks again for your time

Edited August 13, 2020 by Eric plam

[Feynman]

1 minute ago, Eric plam said:

Ok then I'll continue messing with it. Thanks again for your help.

I just guess it isn't going to be what I expected. I only wanted a suspension to smoothen the regular bumps of the road, not something to jump over ledges..

I tried over a really rocky road earlier today. A trail full of medium sized rocks, no gravel. And I didn't see the suspension going..

Anyhow. Maybe I'll keep it just to add to my collection and the kids will use it. Or I will sell. I don't think I'll have any fun with it. 

I would say it's my first real deception on a wheel. Everytime I order a new wheel it's such fun I want to keep them all! First time I want to trash one.. but maybe I just need some sleep😄

Anyhow

Thanks again for your time

It most definitely should smooth out bumps.  I haven't jumped any curbs, ledges or anything else on mine and there's a huge difference on my bumpy road between the S18 and my Z10.

[LeGiroquoi]

As I said I'll continue tuning it for a day or two.

As of now I prefer my z10 slightly deflated and my knees.. does the same job unfortunately, although the z10 follows every crack..

[Feynman]

2 minutes ago, Eric plam said:

As I said I'll continue tuning it for a day or two.

As of now I prefer my z10 slightly deflated and my knees.. does the same job unfortunately, although the z10 follows every crack..

The Z10 does follow every crack, and it's impossible to turn sharply at fast-ish speeds, and it's near impossible to carve like a normal wheel... but I love it just the same 

[FinRider]

34 minutes ago, Eric plam said:

Yeah sorry that was idiot. I shouldn't have wrote this 😳

Now, 160psi

1rst photo while I'm not in it, then when I just stepped on (it already goes out of the shell)

Then after one small jump, and stays there

https://photos.app.goo.gl/5ush3JGPgoynWptF9

I just got my wheel today and took it for a 20km spin. I put 200psi in the upper, 100psi in the lower and 12 clicks out on the rebound. About 35 psi in the tire. For reference, i am about 82 kg geared up.

I did drop a few curbs to check it out and it works flawlessly, absorbs the shock that i would have experienced on my ks16 completely.

It is however a completely different ride than the ks16c. Granted, i am a newbie, got about 1500 km on the 16c since i started riding in late april. The wheel does feel as nimble as the 16c, but turning on it is completely different. Probably true for all 18x3 wheels tho, i just cant compare as i have no experience on any other wheels. The 16c i could force to turn by leaning on the opposite side of the direction i was turning into... not the case anymore, now i have to shift the weight with the pedals alot more instead.

The wheel also feels awfully thin up on top. I will need to add some powerpad or something for sure as it is causing me some wobbles due to no support (my own interpretation of the cause). 

I also got massive amounts of fatigue in my feet after 20 minutes of riding. Probably due to the fact that the wheel is almost twice as heavy as the 16c. Probably something i,will get used to so not too worried about it.

handle wont lock in place in the bottom position. Need to file down the opening like they showed in the video here earlier.

euc world app works, but my pebble did not show anything. Maybe the support for it is not yet built in? Need to check with @Seba

I am very happy with my purchase so far.

[redfoxdude]

8 minutes ago, FinRider said:

handle wont lock in place in the bottom position. Need to file down the opening like they showed in the video here earlier.

euc world app works, but my pebble did not show anything. Maybe the support for it is not yet built in? Need to check with @Seba

I am very happy with my purchase so far.

If you mean the fully lowered position, it doesn't lock there to make it easier to get it into the low, carrying position. But if you mean the carrying position, then yeah, hopefully a little filing helps!

And hmm, my Pebble with EUC World has been working fine. I didn't do anything special. 🤷‍♂️

[Patton250]

Welp the S18 threw my son off of it. He said once he hit 10 mph at tilted forward 15° or so and then he got up to 15 mph and it tilted forward another 15° to the point where it threw him forward and off the wheel and he had to tumble on the pavement. Banged up the stupid wheel pretty good too. He’s all right thank God. What the heck is going on with this wheel?

[LeGiroquoi]

Now riding it in the wild.. but it's not birds you're hearing. The wheel started to sing!

Now its everything but silent. Sqweeking !

https://photos.app.goo.gl/w9M6BtfPSnVG7gcCA

[Elliott Reitz]

10 minutes ago, FinRider said:

I just got my wheel today and took it for a 20km spin. I put 200psi in the upper, 100psi in the lower and 12 clicks out on the rebound. About 35 psi in the tire. For reference, i am about 82 kg geared up.

I did drop a few curbs to check it out and it works flawlessly, absorbs the shock that i would have experienced on my ks16 completely.

It is however a completely different ride than the ks16c. Granted, i am a newbie, got about 1500 km on the 16c since i started riding in late april. The wheel does feel as nimble as the 16c, but turning on it is completely different. Probably true for all 18x3 wheels tho, i just cant compare as i have no experience on any other wheels. The 16c i could force to turn by leaning on the opposite side of the direction i was turning into... not the case anymore, now i have to shift the weight with the pedals alot more instead.

The wheel also feels awfully thin up on top. I will need to add some powerpad or something for sure as it is causing me some wobbles due to no support (my own interpretation of the cause). 

I also got massive amounts of fatigue in my feet after 20 minutes of riding. Probably due to the fact that the wheel is almost twice as heavy as the 16c. Probably something i,will get used to so not too worried about it.

handle wont lock in place in the bottom position. Need to file down the opening like they showed in the video here earlier.

euc world app works, but my pebble did not show anything. Maybe the support for it is not yet built in? Need to check with @Seba

I am very happy with my purchase so far.

I've had my S18 for almost 2 weeks now.  I've ridden it about 40 miles mostly under 10 mph on grass and sidewalks with my dog.  Curb shots are easy now.  As for the suspension, it was a pain in the a## getting it set because the shock-pump couldn't make the bend, especially after the buggered threads from the 1st pump when I had to pry it off.  Anyway, THIS little valve extender is/was the most important thing to getting happy with my suspension and thus my S18.  I already have an MSX 100V so if it weren't for the suspension the S18 would not be my favorite wheel right now.  With this valve extension, hooking up the pump is very easy.  As for pressures, I weigh about 200 lbs with clothes and shoes... upper chamber 200 lbs, lower chamber 100 lbs (my weight/half-weight).  Doing bunny hops (about 1" off ground) moves the blue rubber band about 3/4 of the way down.  I've not yet experimented much with the thumb-wheel.  Also the lockout blue-leaver still has a suspension, just much stiffer (easier to bunny hop, but not as 'nice' on grass).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tyre-Valve-Extension-Adaptor-Motorcycle-Air-Tire-Stem-Extender-45-Degree-Brass/293654996430?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

[FinRider]

3 minutes ago, Elliott Reitz said:

As for the suspension, it was a pain in the a## getting it set because the shock-pump couldn't make the bend, especially after the buggered threads from the 1st pump when I had to pry it off

Hmm, did you follow the instructions from jacks video? I had zero issues with the pump/valves while following his directions.

 

14 minutes ago, redfoxdude said:

If you mean the fully lowered position, it doesn't lock there to make it easier to get it into the low, carrying position. But if you mean the carrying position, then yeah, hopefully a little filing helps!

No, i ment the bottom position (riding position). I probably assumed incorrectly that it would lock in this position. I actually like it so that it does not lock there as it is indeed easier to engage into the carry position.

[FinRider]

16 minutes ago, redfoxdude said:

And hmm, my Pebble with EUC World has been working fine. I didn't do anything special. 🤷‍♂️

Good to hear. Just need to tinker a bit more with it then-

[RockyTop]

No offense intended. I think that it is fair to say that the people that do not push their wheels very hard are not going to see a big difference with the S18  Suspension unless they hit an unexpected pot hole. While the S18 can make speed bump disappear at 20 mph the V11 suspension is more likely to give the commuting rider a smooth ride to work. In my opinion the S18 suspension surpasses my expectations by a large margin. I am still blown away when riding down stairs or jumping off a curb at 27mph. With smooth riding you are not going to see a big difference. I set mine to a high Pressure at first. I set the blue O-Ring and jumped off a two step curb. I checked the O-Ring and lowered pressure each jump until the O-ring was in the max position according to the book. I kept the lower chamber at half the top.