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King Song S18 Discussion


Phong Vu

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2 hours ago, Scottie888 said:

Yaa at something like $80k@ & thats for a toilet! So this particular wheel would like end up being a half mil each!!!  

I would love one but I don't think my loans mgr nor the the CFO (da missus) will agree.

You just need to win the lottery. ;)

or

The Military might not be such a hugely unlikely thing .. .. I think I read the U.S. military has spent like ~$6million on a battery powered exoskeleton to help a soldier carry 40 more Lbs of gear .. in comparison .. a high end EUC could act as a gear mule .. load up 400+ Lbs of stuff , and let the EUC carry it for you .. Then when the solider needs to move fast .. his high end off road EUC lets him go at near vehicle speeds .. far more quiet than any combustion engine would be .. and the whole thing is small and compact , for storage , and deployment.

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11 hours ago, redfoxdude said:

It's awkward to capture a picture, but I've tried to highlight the heatsink. It runs completely front to back from the headlight to the taillight.

@redfoxdude Here is a production line photo of the S18 aluminium top frame, that as you and others have confirmed, also acts as a very efficient massive heatsink for the motherboard!

117261011_2690073974548898_2861413341966

12 hours ago, eve said:

Find it pretty interesting that literally no one seems to even mention that S18s board is made out of aluminium(or some parts of it) which is why the wheel doesnt need active cooling. Its slow to heat it up and fast to cooldown.

I find it interesting that as well as this obviously efficient design choice, literally no one seems to mention the fact that King Song built the S18 heavily influenced by a sports motorcycle frame.  Instead of the Standard EUC design of hanging the heavy motor/wheel & tire assembly, heavy batteries etc. from flimsy plastic (we all know about the problems of plastic shells cracking around the pedal pillars), everything is firmly bolted to the All Metal frame (then modular plastic shell panels wrap around it, making replacement simple and probably less costly than a complete shell if only one panel is needed).  

What King Song have done IMHO is to move in a direction that makes a whole lot of sense, but no one seems to have acknowledged it at any point or in any of the multitude of pre-production videos that are out there.  Surely it has to be better to build an EUC around an All Metal frame than a fracture prone plastic shell,  especially when subjecting the load stress we all put our wheels through these days!!!???

All the focus seems to be on dismissing the S18 due to the smaller than the "Now Standard" 1600wh battery configuration (even though it now appears that for many the range is really quite respectable for only 1100wh), when IMHO high praise for taking a huge step forward with a far better/stronger/safer all metal frame structure should definitely be more forthcoming and worthy of mention!

 

Edited by fbhb
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2 hours ago, fbhb said:

All the focus seems to be on dismissing the S18 due to the smaller than the "Now Standard" 1600wh battery configuration (even though it now appears that for many the range is really quite respectable for only 1100wh), when IMHO high praise for taking a huge step forward with a far better/stronger/safer all metal frame structure should definitely be more forthcoming and worthy of mention!

The S18 is an impressive machine designed to take a beating off road. The innovative aluminum frame should receive high accolades but your correct that the S18 gets flogged for it’s 1100 wh battery.

I selected the wheel exclusively for off road and the more I see the superb R&D that when into the design the more comfortable I am with my selection.

Just look at the mainboard and the solder joints for the motor’s wires along with the over abundance of silicone protecting the components from vibration and shock.

Does anyone have any info on what wire gauge KS selected for it’s motor? It appears to be 12 gauge.,

 

50213564356_04160d19a6_b.jpg

 

12 minutes ago, DjPanJan said:

 

Thanks! I’ve been waiting for this!:cheers:

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On 8/10/2020 at 5:34 AM, dsd317 said:

I'm no expert here, but I think frequent fast charging can/may shorten the life of batteries

Anything lower than 0.5C is not a fast charge. Some say fast charge is 1C and above.

5A charge is about 0.3C for this wheel.

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Well I'm the one that bought Shane's s18 and yeah it's kind of crappy..

I don't know if either the suspension is defective or if I'm dumb..

I've tried looking everywhere for tutorial on how to setup the suspension but non helped. It's weird because I can jump with it and it does the job, but for city driving it's crap..

The wheel doesn't pull me up once I jumped on it one time. I stay stuck down and then it doesn't absorb any bumps or so little.. anyone to help diagnose???

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7 minutes ago, Eric plam said:

Well I'm the one that bought Shane's s18 and yeah it's kind of crappy..

I don't know if either the suspension is defective or if I'm dumb..

I've tried looking everywhere for tutorial on how to setup the suspension but non helped. It's weird because I can jump with it and it does the job, but for city driving it's crap..

The wheel doesn't pull me up once I jumped on it one time. I stay stuck down and then it doesn't absorb any bumps or so little.. anyone to help diagnose???

Have you adjusted the rebound damping knob? It's the red one at the top of the shock. If it's fully clockwise, the damping is at max, and it will be extremely slow to uncompress. It has 30 clicks if adjustment, right in the middle at 15 is probably a good starting place.

Edited by redfoxdude
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Yeah I did. Set to fastest.. 

But maybe that wheel is made for hard offroading and I had high expectations for city rides... In that aspect it doesn't shine compared to my other wheels

I do feel all the bumps and irregularities of the road same as every wheels

Edited by Eric plam
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14 minutes ago, Eric plam said:

The wheel doesn't pull me up once I jumped on it one time. I stay stuck down and then it doesn't absorb any bumps or so little..

Just by looking at videos of riding and pumping up the S18, it has always looked as if there were a bit too much resistance in the system. The behavior you describe is what I have thought of seeing since the beginning.

 But with proper setup it is obviously capable of doing its job relatively well. I think you need to pump the shock unit to a higher pressure. If you have already done so, attach the pump again to see how much pressure you lost from detaching the pump. If not done carefully, the tiny pressure cavity can easily release it’s air to become practically empty.

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From looking at the teardown video, it looks like the rear light is incorporated into the motherboard... I'm not sure I want to take apart my entire wheel just to find out there's no cables to replug to get that rear light to work.  What a bummer!  Looks like I need to get this wheel sent off for repairs.

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39 minutes ago, Eric plam said:

Yeah I did. Set to fastest.. 

But maybe that wheel is made for hard offroading and I had high expectations for city rides... In that aspect it doesn't shine compared to my other wheels

I do feel all the bumps and irregularities of the road same as every wheels

How much pressure do you have in the negative chamber? And yes, I still feel many bumps in the road. The suspension isn't complete magic to mitigate all bumpiness unfortunately. But it really takes the edge off. I can accelerate comfortably over roots and such, and I hardly feel those, for example.

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30 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Just by looking at videos of riding and pumping up the S18, it has always looked as if there were a bit too much resistance in the system. The behavior you describe is what I have thought of seeing since the beginning.

 But with proper setup it is obviously capable of doing its job relatively well. I think you need to pump the shock unit to a higher pressure. If you have already done so, attach the pump again to see how much pressure you lost from detaching the pump. If not done carefully, the tiny pressure cavity can easily release it’s air to become practically empty.

Yeah I did a lot of try. Low pressure, high pressure on both valves. 

Then low on the positive, high on negative, then the opposite. 

I tried pumping it while seated on it. Then while beside. The best setting I found is to sit on it but not too much weight, exposing the shock a little. Then pump to the suggested settings. 

It does the job a bit better, but I look like doing it like a dud, expecting a magical setting to happen.. but still I'm not convinced about this wheel for casual city rides...

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13 minutes ago, redfoxdude said:

How much pressure do you have in the negative chamber? And yes, I still feel many bumps in the road. The suspension isn't complete magic to mitigate all bumpiness unfortunately. But it really takes the edge off. I can accelerate comfortably over roots and such, and I hardly feel those, for example.

Yeah over roots and really big potholes it seems ok. But not that much compared to a nice deflated tire on a Nikola 

I'll see with the v11

Edited by Eric plam
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3 hours ago, Eric plam said:

Well I'm the one that bought Shane's s18 and yeah it's kind of crappy..

I don't know if either the suspension is defective or if I'm dumb..

I've tried looking everywhere for tutorial on how to setup the suspension but non helped. It's weird because I can jump with it and it does the job, but for city driving it's crap..

The wheel doesn't pull me up once I jumped on it one time. I stay stuck down and then it doesn't absorb any bumps or so little.. anyone to help diagnose???

It sounds to me like either the shock isn't setup properly (incorrect settings), or something is faulty with the wheel. If you have the time, could you take a video of the suspension? I think the best way to take the video would be to simply use something to lean on, like a wall or rail, and jump/compress the suspension while not rolling (with the wheel on though).

Edited by Mark Wilson
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4 hours ago, Eric plam said:

Well I'm the one that bought Shane's s18 and yeah it's kind of crappy..

I don't know if either the suspension is defective or if I'm dumb..

I've tried looking everywhere for tutorial on how to setup the suspension but non helped. It's weird because I can jump with it and it does the job, but for city driving it's crap..

The wheel doesn't pull me up once I jumped on it one time. I stay stuck down and then it doesn't absorb any bumps or so little.. anyone to help diagnose???

My advice is to completely start over by emptying the shocks. Be sure to push down on the wheel. I did this three times to make sure all of the air was removed. 

Did Shane provide you with the plastic block? Be sure that is installed first before adding any air to the top and bottom chambers. 


*Make sure the block is removed after you have completed the fill. 

Edited by Rehab1
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@fbhb Totally agree and very good points. 

@Eric plam Wait did you fill the negative chamber too? If you didnt the rebound would be minimal. You would kind of be stuck in that pushed down position of the shock.


Anyone knows what shocks are compatible with S18? They said in the video that as long as its 200x57 then it will work on it. 

But eWheels mentions the shock being 165x35. There is a bigger variant of the same shock with 200x51 but at eWheels its says that its 165.

Then what shock stroke and eye to eye are optimal?

Edited by eve
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41 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

My advice is to completely start over by emptying the shocks. Be sure to push down on the wheel. I did this three times to make sure all of the air was removed. 

Did Shane provide you with the plastic block? Be sure that is installed first before adding any air to the top and bottom chambers. 


*Make sure the block is removed after you have completed the fill. 

Thanks 

I did follow that video. Although I don't see the point of the block.. it doesn't block anything nor comes into contact with the suspension in any way. 

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1 minute ago, Eric plam said:

Although I don't see the point of the block.. it doesn't block anything nor comes into contact with the suspension in any way. 

It does actually, if placed in the position shown, it keeps the suspension from fully extending, and leaves the upper fill valve exposed. Otherwise it retracts into the frame. The longest dimension of the block should be placed vertically.

Edited by redfoxdude
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58 minutes ago, redfoxdude said:

It does actually, if placed in the position shown, it keeps the suspension from fully extending, and leaves the upper fill valve exposed. Otherwise it retracts into the frame. The longest dimension of the block should be placed vertically.

I can confirm the block definitely serves its purpose of keeping the valves accessible while filling.  

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1 hour ago, eve said:

Anyone knows what shocks are compatible with S18? They said in the video that as long as its 200x57 then it will work on it. 

But eWheels mentions the shock being 165x35. There is a bigger variant of the same shock with 200x51 but at eWheels its says that its 165.

Then what shock stroke and eye to eye are optimal?

I was wondering about compatible shocks as well.  165x38 (6.5 x 1.5) seems to be the least common size.  I ordered an old school rockshox deluxe coil with 600lb spring to try out, but I'd sure like to throw a Fox or Cane Creek on there!

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1 hour ago, eve said:

Anyone knows what shocks are compatible with S18? They said in the video that as long as its 200x57 then it will work on it. 

But eWheels mentions the shock being 165x35. There is a bigger variant of the same shock with 200x51 but at eWheels its says that its 165.

Then what shock stroke and eye to eye are optimal?

if 200x57 is the max capability of the suspension system then we would be safe using anything same size or smaller.

22 minutes ago, Feynman said:

I was wondering about compatible shocks as well.  165x38 (6.5 x 1.5) seems to be the least common size.  I ordered an old school rockshox deluxe coil with 600lb spring to try out, but I'd sure like to throw a Fox or Cane Creek on there!

Measuring the eye-to-eye, it is definitely 200mm, so I would say it is probably the 200x51 model of the DNM AOY-36RC. I'd definitely like to try it with a Fox shock, ha!

One thing to note is that the eyelet bushing diameter is 12mm on these DNM shocks. The mount width appears to be 50mm. Shouldn't be too crazy to get mounting hardware for other shocks.

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10 minutes ago, redfoxdude said:

Measuring the eye-to-eye, it is definitely 200mm, so I would say it is probably the 200x51 model of the DNM AOY-36RC. I'd definitely like to try it with a Fox shock, ha!

If its the 200x51 then were gold. Air, Coil. Well have a lot to choose from. If its true i will be buying one coil and one air. The fact you dont have to disassemble anything on the wheel to switch shocks is pure gold. 

But the eWheels site is stating the shock is DNM AOY-36RC-165.

11 minutes ago, redfoxdude said:

One thing to note is that the eyelet bushing diameter is 12mm on these DNM shocks. The mount width appears to be 50mm. Shouldn't be too crazy to get mounting hardware for other shocks.

Well play with some bushing options. Least of our worries.

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