King Song S18 Discussion

[Feynman]

41 minutes ago, eve said:

But the eWheels site is stating the shock is DNM AOY-36RC-165.

I was going by the ewheels site as well.  That does appear to be the shock it came with.  I guess the sizes that will work depends on how wide the linkage will spread.  I could take the shock off an measure it... but I'm pretty lazy.  When I slap that coil shock on there I'll do it.

[eve]

@Feynman You can try putting in a high PSI and measuring it while its on. Not gonna be precise but we know the sizes of the 36RC shocks so we really dont need to be precise. Whatever comes closest.

Make sure to check how much is the max PSI. 

Edited August 11, 2020 by eve

[Feynman]

23 minutes ago, eve said:

@Feynman You can try putting in a high PSI and measuring it while its on. Not gonna be precise but we know the sizes of the 36RC shocks so we really dont need to be precise. Whatever comes closest.

That's a good idea.  I'll try it

[eve]

Just now, Feynman said:

That's a good idea.  I'll try it

Just dont overpump it lol. Even though that shock cost like 60 bucks. 

[Feynman]

Just now, eve said:

Just dont overpump it lol. Even though that shock cost like 60 bucks. 

What is max PSI?  350?

[eve]

@Feynman 250 positive 80 negative. 

But you dont need to pump it that much since you wont be standing on it. Just pump it like you would normally 100kg person. 

Or just measure it with your settings i doubt that the EUC itself is creating a lot of sag on that stroke.

[Feynman]

2 minutes ago, eve said:

@Feynman 250 positive 80 negative. 

But you dont need to pump it that much since you wont be standing on it. Just pump it like you would normally 100kg person. 

Or just measure it with your settings i doubt that the EUC itself is creating a lot of sag on that stroke.

I'm at 250 / 150 right now.  No blowouts yet!

 

Just measured, and it's almost exactly 7.5" - which is ~ 190mm

Edited August 11, 2020 by Feynman
I measured!

[eve]

4 minutes ago, Feynman said:

Just measured, and it's almost exactly 7.5" - which is ~ 190mm

can you measure the stroke? Well thats very positive info. Seems like well be albe to put some good shocks on it.

[Feynman]

2 minutes ago, eve said:

can you measure the stroke? Well thats very positive info. Seems like well be albe to put some good shocks on it.

I measure just shy of 1.25".  I'm not sure if that's a constraint of the shock or the linkage, but I'm over 250lb, so I'm guessing I'm hitting bottom when I jump up and down on it.

[redfoxdude]

17 minutes ago, Feynman said:

Just measured, and it's almost exactly 7.5" - which is ~ 190mm

1 hour ago, redfoxdude said:

Measuring the eye-to-eye, it is definitely 200mm, so I would say it is probably the 200x51 model of the DNM AOY-36RC.

 I have measured mine as well, and see 200mm, which is consistent with King Song's video. I measured about 45mm of travel from fully extended to fully compressed with the shock empty. The AOY-36RC only comes in a 200x51 (according to the manual), but I'm sure a 200x57 would work just fine then. 
If there is pressure in the negative chamber, it may not naturally fully extend, which might be why yours measured slightly shorter, if I had to guess.

Edited August 12, 2020 by redfoxdude

[eve]

This is nice i was worried that the unit would be 165x35. At that size there is not a lot to choose from. 

But at 200mm i can buy some very good shocks.

Dont understand why is eWheels stating that is the 165 one.

Edited August 12, 2020 by eve

[redfoxdude]

3 hours ago, eve said:

Wait did you fill the negative chamber too? If you didnt the rebound would be minimal. You would kind of be stuck in that pushed down position of the shock.

Actually the opposite is true. The positive chamber provides force to extend the shock. The negative chamber opposes the positive pressure, so it aids in compression of the shock. Increasing negative pressure increases suppleness a bit (makes the response a bit more linear like a real spring), and also increases the sag. No negative pressure would make the shock pretty harsh, but it would still rebound.
Now, if the negative pressure is too high, or even above the positive pressure, then the shock will certainly fail to extend/rebound.

Edited August 12, 2020 by redfoxdude

[redfoxdude]

The process doesn't look too bad, that's about what I was thinking after watching the full teardown... Too bad you can't access the motor connector housing without taking the side panel off, that would have been awesome.

[fbhb]

15 minutes ago, redfoxdude said:

Too bad you can't access the motor connector housing without taking the side panel off, that would have been awesome.

Granted, but at least you only have to remove the one side panel on the motor cable side of the wheel.  It still makes stripping the motor assembly out for tire changes etc. an absolute breeze IMHO!!!  He has the whole motor assembly out in 6.00 minutes!!!

Edited August 12, 2020 by fbhb

[FinRider]

3 minutes ago, fbhb said:

Granted, but at least you only have to remove the one side panel on the motor cable side of the wheel.  It still makes stripping the motor assembly out for tire changes etc. an absolute breeze IMHO!!!  He has the whole motor assembly out in 6.00 minutes!!!

Yeah, this is easy enough.

One thing worries me though and it is the design of the pedal hangers. Its just 4 bolts that tighten a clamp that goes around the tubes. There are tremendous forces, especially for heavier riders, on these pedals and if they are not tight enough, then I can easily see them sliding off unintentionally. Granted, the suspension helps absorb the forces a bit and it becomes only critical if you bottom out. Still, I would have liked to see a better design in this area.

[fbhb]

1 minute ago, FinRider said:

One thing worries me though and it is the design of the pedal hangers. Its just 4 bolts that tighten a clamp that goes around the tubes.

I recently posted my amazement that no one has been praising King Song for following motorcycle design, but here is yet another area where a tried and tested method wins due to that design philosophy. 

Take a look at certain brands of triple clamp forks on a motorcycle or even MTB with suspension forks and you will see the exact same clamping method King Song have used for the pedal hangers. 

Front forks on MTB's and motorcycles Do Not move on the sliders, so long as the tolerances are correct and the bolts are correctly torqued up.  The pedal hangers on the S18 are no different in this regard, as demonstrated by a soft mallet being required to gently tap the pedal assembly off the slider tubes!!!

[FinRider]

4 minutes ago, fbhb said:

I recently posted my amazement that no one has been praising King Song for following motorcycle design, but here is yet another area where a tried and tested method wins due to that design philosophy. 

Take a look at certain brands of triple clamp forks on a motorcycle or even MTB with suspension forks and you will see the exact same clamping method King Song have used for the pedal hangers. 

Front forks on MTB's and motorcycles Do Not move on the sliders, so long as the tolerances are correct and the bolts are correctly torqued up.  The pedal hangers on the S18 are no different in this regard, as demonstrated by a soft mallet being required to gently tap the pedal assembly off the slider tubes!!!

Thanks for educating us and reassuring us that this is a tried and proven method!

I guess the key though is the "correctly torqued up" as I have not seen specs on this... I guess nice and tight and then another thorough squeeze is in order.... the same method that I use when tightening the bolts on my car tires...

[mrelwood]

Those of you who are still on the fence about ordering the S18 (or any other KS wheel), you might want to take a look at the discussions on KS remotely locking up KS wheels, new and old. The discussion remains a bit heated, as the official KS representative has now commented.

 

[B08AH]

On 8/11/2020 at 6:29 PM, Eric plam said:

The wheel doesn't pull me up once I jumped on it one time. I stay stuck down and then it doesn't absorb any bumps or so little.. anyone to help diagnose???

Yeah I did. Set to fastest.. 

try setting at 15 clicks, if nothing changes - contact the seller to replace the shock.

[Rehab1]

I just started experimenting with 1/16” Kydex low temperature plastic to protect the sides of my S18.  So far the process looks favorable for DIY’s.,

You do need to wear gloves when molding it  but the material became malleable at 225 degrees and did not stick to the side shell.

Any kitchen oven will suffice to heat the plastic

. 

The kydex maintained the contour of the shell once it cooled (approximately 1 minute).

Double faced tape appears to hold the protective cover on adequately.

[LeGiroquoi]

Me again with my problems.. I did one hour of offroading with the s18 and both of my pedal hangers (those tabs to keep the pedals folded up to the wheel) have broken! Another disappointment.. I didn't even ride it hard or made any dangerous moves..weird..

 

But I keep coming back to my suspension problem. I have no way to adjust it so it justifies the price tag and difference to any of my other wheels.

I saw again the kuji video. We clearly see the shock bounces up, especially the bottom part that moves. On mine the lower portion never moves. Never. Stuck in place all the time. Only the upper portion moves when I jump on it. It almost never moves when riding in uneven roads, grass etc. Only if I jump on it..

Again, any idea someone? Or I'll that wheel go to another person, as Shane did with it..

 

https://youtu.be/UXvnhsyyqrY

[Feynman]

12 minutes ago, Eric plam said:

Me again with my problems.. I did one hour of offroading with the s18 and both of my pedal hangers (those tabs to keep the pedals folded up to the wheel) have broken! Another disappointment.. I didn't even ride it hard or made any dangerous moves..weird..

 

But I keep coming back to my suspension problem. I have no way to adjust it so it justifies the price tag and difference to any of my other wheels.

I saw again the kuji video. We clearly see the shock bounces up, especially the bottom part that moves. On mine the lower portion never moves. Never. Stuck in place all the time. Only the upper portion moves when I jump on it. It almost never moves when riding in uneven roads, grass etc. Only if I jump on it..

Again, any idea someone? Or I'll that wheel go to another person, as Shane did with it..

I don't know jack, but it sounds like your shock isn't working as intended.  I picked up a rockshox coil with 600lb spring on ebay for $39.

 

Stupid question, but it's not in 'locked' mode is it?

Edited August 12, 2020 by Feynman
added more

[Flying W]

I second that, check the lock out switch. It sounds like it's acting like my mnt bike if it's locked out. 

[LeGiroquoi]

Thanks. The best is that I just film it tomorrow..

But thanks for the advices

[fbhb]