dsd317 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 Here's my theory as to why tightening axle screws cause binding in sliders. If the right/left axles are not parallel to each other, and/or the pockets on the sliders where the axles sit in are not flat or parallel to the axles, then tightening axle screws would cause the sliders to bow inwards/outwards enough to bind. Just my theory. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 11 minutes ago, Feynman said: I'm curious if the measurement varies as you move up the rails? (i.e. are they parallel?) Did you have the block in place when you tightened them? Good question. No I did not. I’ll look tomorrow. Regarding the blocks (bricks) it is my understanding that they are set in place after the battery packs are installed on the suspension pillars and just before torquing those mounting bolts. I’ve watch the S18 assembly movie way too many times but maybe the blocks would work to keep the pillars aligned when tightening both the axle and battery frames. How is your wheel coming along? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 23 minutes ago, dsd317 said: Here's my theory as to why tightening axle screws cause binding in sliders. If the right/left axles are not parallel to each other, and/or the pockets on the sliders where the axles sit in are not flat or parallel to the axles, then tightening axle screws would cause the sliders to bow inwards/outwards enough to bind. Just my theory. Excellent theory! How do we test it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsd317 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Rehab1 said: Excellent theory! How do we test it? Lol...already did. When I tightened the 2 axle screws closest to the motor on the right and left side, there is little binding. Then, after tightening the 2 outer axle screws, the ones farthest away from motor, the sliders bind even more. This is why I'm thinking the tubes are bending either inwards or outwards when tightening axle screws. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliott Reitz Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 Think of the Nirvana song... "Hay Wait, I've Got a New Complaint"... To my surprise, after mentioning it to eWheels looking for replacements... they're shipping them already. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliott Reitz Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 5 minutes ago, dsd317 said: Lol...already did. When I tightened the 2 axle screws closest to the motor on the right and left side, there is little binding. Then, after tightening the 2 outer axle screws, the ones farthest away from motor, the sliders bind even more. This is why I'm thinking the tubes are bending either inwards or outwards when tightening axle screws. I did a vid with and without blocks with the valve-s removed from the shock. The motion has serious friction type resistance... not binding. It seems it was shipped with dry o-rings in the sliders. Lubricating that helped quite a bit... though they're still very slow. I think the shock also has too much internal 'resistance' in that the rebound knob full-open doesn't release the shock to act like a spring (or nothing with the valves out) but instead adds huge friction-like resistance. The resistance I feel is throughout the motion of the travel. With valves out the suspension doesn't compress by itself (takes about 30 lbs pushing to make it compress), and by lifting it doesn't extend without a little pushing on the shock or holding by foot while lifting. Ref this vid: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, dsd317 said: This is why I'm thinking the tubes are bending either inwards or outwards when tightening axle screws. Good man! Well there must be a weak link in the slider’s structure. The torqued hex bolts bearing down on the machined axle clamp do create significant force. Time for a drink. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post onizukagto Posted September 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 24, 2020 this thread is so much fun. Reading how everyone is fixing and taking apart their wheel is pretty cool. If i wasn't looking for just a reliable commuting EUC, this would be a fun hobby wheel to have. Guess i'll just wait until it get's cheaper and i find more time. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ..... Posted September 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, onizukagto said: this thread is so much fun. Reading how everyone is fixing and taking apart their wheel is pretty cool. If i wasn't looking for just a reliable commuting EUC, this would be a fun hobby wheel to have. Guess i'll just wait until it get's cheaper and i find more time. This thread makes me sad for everyone and I cant help but keep watching. Its like a horrible accident and you cant look away. It would be much more fun if we weren't talking about a two THOUSAND dollar wheel, rather a prototype kit that was still in R&D phase. The s18 was no where near ready for release and i do feel for you guys who still own them. Best of luck is all I can say. I wonder what kind of pita it has become for KS and all their distributors? To think that I was concerned about brand of shock. Similar to worrying about a hair out of place while your jacket is on fire.... Edited September 24, 2020 by ShanesPlanet 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feynman Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 3 hours ago, Rehab1 said: Good question. No I did not. I’ll look tomorrow. Regarding the blocks (bricks) it is my understanding that they are set in place after the battery packs are installed on the suspension pillars and just before torquing those mounting bolts. I’ve watch the S18 assembly movie way too many times but maybe the blocks would work to keep the pillars aligned when tightening both the axle and battery frames. How is your wheel coming along? You're right, sorry. The blocks go with the pedal hangers. But you do have an interesting thought there - maybe wait until installing the pedal hangers to tighten the motor mounts at the same time? My wheel hasn't changed in a few days. I realized that the shafts are rotating along with the arms in the slider and top holes, so my thrust bearing there are doing effectively nothing. They won't hurt anything, but it's not a great design. I guess I should just leave it as is and get the wheel back together. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rehab1 Posted September 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 24, 2020 6 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said: This thread makes me sad for everyone and I cant help but keep watching. Don’t be sad! Modifying the S18 is great stress reliever for me plus I can keep the wheel hidden from my wife for a few more days. 5 hours ago, Feynman said: But you do have an interesting thought there - maybe wait until installing the pedal hangers to tighten the motor mounts at the same time? I was thinking the same thing. Kingsong’s assembly sequence can be altered so I will give it a try. 5 hours ago, Feynman said: My wheel hasn't changed in a few days. I realized that the shafts are rotating along with the arms in the slider and top holes, so my thrust bearing there are doing effectively nothing. They won't hurt anything, but it's not a great design. I guess I should just leave it as is and get the wheel back together. That can be frustrating. Waiting for non OEM parts is equally frustrating. I had the luxury of having 2 sets of suspension arms to experiment with. You’ve done an excellent job throughout your R&D. Everyone interested in modifying the S18’s suspension have learned volumes from your topic. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yon Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 I just hope kingsong are taking note of this 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jimjam.nyc Posted September 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 24, 2020 Man... I am glad some people actually enjoy modifying and working on this wheel. But honestly, this kind of stuff is unacceptable. It's now on 2nd batch and there have been zero improvements made. Modding and improving on your own is great, but only if the product is working in the first place. Nobody here paid 2k for a euc KIT. You paid for a fully functional product out of a box. I love my 16x, glad I canceled my preorder of this wheel. Worst thing for me about this is I prob wouldn't even think about a future KS wheel after seeing this. As someone who loves my KS wheel to feel that way, there has to be more who feel the same. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onizukagto Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 1 hour ago, yon said: I just hope kingsong are taking note of this They are taking note that S18 owner are enjoying taking apart, modding and upgrading the S18 from the get go. So I guess, they are doing things right and don't have to change anything? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Feynman Posted September 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 24, 2020 9 minutes ago, onizukagto said: They are taking note that S18 owner are enjoying taking apart, modding and upgrading the S18 from the get go. So I guess, they are doing things right and don't have to change anything? To be fair, I'd rather be riding the wheel than fixing it 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Simply_Striking Posted September 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) 34 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said: Man... I am glad some people actually enjoy modifying and working on this wheel. But honestly, this kind of stuff is unacceptable. It's now on 2nd batch and there have been zero improvements made. Modding and improving on your own is great, but only if the product is working in the first place. Nobody here paid 2k for a euc KIT. You paid for a fully functional product out of a box. I love my 16x, glad I canceled my preorder of this wheel. Worst thing for me about this is I prob wouldn't even think about a future KS wheel after seeing this. As someone who loves my KS wheel to feel that way, there has to be more who feel the same. As a potential KS customer this is correct. It appears that their manufacturing/assembly process allows for way too much variance. I love this wheel design, and it is what got me looking at EUCs, but.... After the issues with the preproduction units, that persisted with 1st batch units. Then issues with the 1st batch showing up in the 2nd batch. I am waiting to see what happens to the 3rd batch. Was looking at the 16x as well but it seems like that wheel has issues with battery and dust ingression as well. TBH the Gotway RS is looking spec wise very attractive at the moment, despite looking like a soap dish, and for only a $200 more than the S18 and 16X. The extra range, and higher safety margin. I hate the v11 design style, and it looks fragile. I know there are probably a bunch or happy S18 owners out there enjoying their wheel and would not come here to complain about issues, but from what I see here, compared to other wheel forums... it is alot. KS come on... I am tryna be a fanboy here!!! Edit: This wheel not being able to fit a knobby tire without modification because of fender clearance is silly. just my 0.02 Edited September 24, 2020 by Simply_Striking 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yon Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) Mine should be here in days. I have my own QC check to do on arrival and the check list is quite extensive thanks to this forum. If I take out the bottom spindle on the suspension unit and it does not slide up and down freely like in @feynmans latest video leaves me with two choices. Upgrade it or send it back. The rite the decision has to be made quickly because I lost all my engineering skills the day I lost the job 30 years ago. All I have Left is an adjustable spanner a hammer and screw driver and that’s it. Edited September 24, 2020 by yon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mark Wilson Posted September 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 24, 2020 24 minutes ago, Simply_Striking said: Edit: This wheel not being able to fit a knobby tire without modification because of fender clearance is silly. just my 0.02 I agree that they should've made the fender larger to allow for larger knobby tires but you can at least fit a smaller knobby tire according to this post: 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply_Striking Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 12 minutes ago, Mark Wilson said: I agree that they should've made the fender larger to allow for larger knobby tires but you can at least fit a smaller knobby tire according to this post: Thanks, was not aware of this. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rehab1 Posted September 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 24, 2020 I just solved a major slider binding problem. It was driving me nuts! The 2 motor’s axle bushings contact the axle clamp but when the 8 hex nuts were torqued it affected the alignment of the slider assembly. I created a 1mm deep slot in the machined clamp to eliminate the contact with the axle bushings when the hex bolts are torqued. Photo depicting the clearance between axle clamp and motor bushing. This mod was the last major hurdle for eliminating the binding in the sliders. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feynman Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: I just solved a major slider binding problem. It was driving me nuts! The 2 motor’s axle bushings contact the axle clamp but when the 8 hex nuts were torqued it affected the alignment of the slider assembly. I created a 1mm deep slot in the machined clamp to eliminate the contact with the axle bushings when the hex bolts are torqued. Photo depicting the clearance between axle clamp and motor bushing. This mod was the last major hurdle for eliminating the binding in the sliders. Very nice! I'm adding that to my list! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 12 minutes ago, Feynman said: Very nice! I'm adding that to my list! Thanks. We both need to back on the road riding our S18’s. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post EUChristian Posted September 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) Been a while since I've been back...wow. One of you should open a business refurbishing new S18s. Seriously. Edited September 24, 2020 by EUChristian 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rehab1 Posted September 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 24, 2020 11 minutes ago, EUChristian said: Been a while since I've been back...wow. One of you should open a business refurbishing new S18s. Seriously. The song ‘50 Ways To Leave Your Lover’ comes to mind. Your suggestion would count as 51. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsd317 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Rehab1 said: I just solved a major slider binding problem. It was driving me nuts! The 2 motor’s axle bushings contact the axle clamp but when the 8 hex nuts were torqued it affected the alignment of the slider assembly. I created a 1mm deep slot in the machined clamp to eliminate the contact with the axle bushings when the hex bolts are torqued. Photo depicting the clearance between axle clamp and motor bushing. This mod was the last major hurdle for eliminating the binding in the sliders. I could be wrong but i don't think those are axle bushings. I think they are spacers to prevent motor/wheel from slipping side-to-side relative to the sliding tube mounts/frame. So as long as those spacers are contacting the slider axle mounts, and not the clamp axle mounts, you should be good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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