alcatraz Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 On 3/17/2020 at 9:12 AM, Nic said: It is confusing why an 84v EUC battery is 20 cells in series, but when bicycle batteries are discussed they use nominal voltages such that 36v is 10 cells in series ... in EUC terms that is 42v. Its all just a bit mixed up. There are different chemistry batteries. Each chemistry has different property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 I appreciate that there are different chemistries. But I was comparing apples with apples. My ebike battery (as do most others) has exactly the same chemistry in it's 18650's as my EUC's. Very few ebikes run Li-Po/LiFe/etc now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xorbe Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, alcatraz said: There are different chemistry batteries. Each chemistry has different property. No, it's the same batteries. EUCs we talk about peak charge voltage (4.2V per cell). E-bikes talk about nominal voltage (3.6V or 3.7V) and there's some history there, because e-bikes started with 12V lead acid and their attempt to match 36V/48V lead acid systems under load. For an e-bike a 10C "36V" system is about 36V after the the peak charge immediately drops under use. But it has the same 42V peak voltage after fresh charging. To be perfectly clear, a lithium cell spends a long time around its nominal voltage under load. So they were careful while slipping lithum cells into e-bikes that WEREN'T purpose designed for lithiums. They needed to match up with the older lead acid voltages, for the sake of the voltage/current controllers. There are plenty of lithum e-bikes to choose from these days, and yeah they are expensive. Back on topic ... I don't know about having a suspension on an EUC. If you ride a motorcycle, you know what I'm talking about. The problem is what happens while cornering. You'll want a dynamic suspension that's soft until leaning over ... no idea what compression and rebound is going to feel like on an EUC mid corner leaned over! Edited March 18, 2020 by xorbe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 2 hours ago, xorbe said: no idea what compression and rebound is going to feel like on an EUC mid corner leaned over! There are so many use cases and riding styles that I think it’s too much to hope for the manufacturer to test the suspension in every possible situation and ambient temperature. High speed cornering could be one of them. We will learn a lot when the reviews start popping up. And then a lot more when the reviewers are more accustomed to the new riding style. The suspension will be easy to screw up, but at least it seems they have had a chance to test and tweak it for a decent amount of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_bike_kite Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 If they use MR damping then you could only have the suspension switched on while cruising at a steady speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenofnine Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 I personally don't want suspension on my EUCs, and I really hope Inmotion's new model doesn't have invasive suspension. It's going to cause more problems than it's worth. Really all you need is a fat cushy tire and a bit of shock absorption or layering on the pedals surface. If you've ever ridden the new v8/v10 pedals you will already know what a big difference just a thin layer of honeycombed rubber under the grip tape makes. Now imagine a specifically designed shock absorption material on newer pedals and wearing comfortable shock absorbing shoes....that is more than enough for everyday riding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 1 hour ago, mike_bike_kite said: If they use MR damping then you could only have the suspension switched on while cruising at a steady speed. I’d call them using such a modern, expensive technology a very distant fantasy. My guess is they are not even using traditional car/mc/mtb shock absorbers. 13 minutes ago, tenofnine said: It's going to cause more problems than it's worth. If done badly, sure. If done even halfway decently, your statement is false for at least every rider who buys the wheel because of the suspension. Which might be the majority of buyers. 13 minutes ago, tenofnine said: Now imagine a specifically designed shock absorption material on newer pedals and wearing comfortable shock absorbing shoes....that is more than enough for everyday riding. Absolutely. But they’ve made it clear since the very beginning that this is not a wheel aimed for urban everyday riding. It’s made for ”long distance and off-road riders”. But yes, if they slabbed an inch of Adidas Boost midsole between the motor and a floating shell/pedal structure, it would already ride over bumps like a dream and still be a game changer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazarinho Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) Inmotion, yes! Long range, yes! Off-road, yes! To be honest the only thing that worries me is the suspension bit. I can't see that kind of innovation coming without trouble at first. How will it behave when people really start using these wheels. Will it hold up under stress/over time. What effect will it have on riding behavior? Will it need more maintenance? Will it make the wheel more expensive? Nobody knows. Edited March 18, 2020 by Tazarinho 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_bike_kite Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 39 minutes ago, Tazarinho said: Will it make the wheel more expensive? Nobody knows. That bit, I think we do know. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Well they are aiming for a 2000$ price tag but tbc if they can keep it that this. I saw that Ian from Speedyfeet said the had been testing on working prototype since 8 months back. I also think look at the 3 major active EUC brands, KS,GW or Inmotion. Inmotion are those who seems to me that can pull this off. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xorbe Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 9 hours ago, mrelwood said: But yes, if they slabbed an inch of Adidas Boost midsole between the motor and a floating shell/pedal structure, it would already ride over bumps like a dream and still be a game changer aka, the Dualtron (scooter) "suspension" (it's a square of squishy rubber in a cube)! It doesn't work that well -- I guess it's okay for rebound, but it doesn't compress well (harsh feedback) as it is normally compressed under load most of the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Not sure if it would work, but a nice suspension idea would be a soft ring between tire rim and motor. Same principle as a soft tire. Along with some soft pedals. No mechanical devices needed, like springs and whatnot. Comparably cheap to build. The old Inmotion concept shows spring suspension. I wonder what it will be... and what the result will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said: Not sure if it would work, but a nice suspension idea would be a soft ring between tire rim and motor. Same principle as a soft tire. Along with some soft pedals. No mechanical devices needed, like springs and whatnot. Comparably cheap to build. The old Inmotion concept shows spring suspension. I wonder what it will be... and what the result will be. I have a old work colleague that a kewano ko1 well or what to call it. 10" solid rubber tire with a spring system attached to the mini pedal you stand on. According to him this suspension works pretty okey. But then again he never tried a EUC yet and never goes faster than 20kmh and only 1-4km a ride. But it can go over minor curbs. I have not tested it as he lives back in Denmark and I now live in Sweden. I am not saying suspension is a must have but it sure is a more valued differentiator to me that putting 21700 cell in a wheel or raising top speed 3-4kmh...30-40kmh is the top speeds I ride these days despite I have wheels that can do 50kmh. I never gone past 46 kmh. And that was on my KS18L. Also easier disassembly (my wish) and now talked about ip67 rating from Inmotion. Would be welcomed features. Same as anti theft gps tracking build in (a future wish feature). Like you have on smartphones (find my phone function). There are still many things we could see in future wheels. And it seems Inmotion have some wishes tag other might come in next next gen. The big interesting part is they have kept asking for feedback and ideas. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Inmotion Global Posted March 23, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted March 23, 2020 On 3/10/2020 at 6:03 PM, mike_bike_kite said: Though if it was just a springy tyre I'd be a bit disappointed Not springy tire. That's not how we work on the suspension. The biggest problem to develop the new wheel is the suspension that cost us one year to solve the problem. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inmotion Global Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 On 3/13/2020 at 4:14 PM, mike_bike_kite said: Wouldn't it be better to weigh just the wheel on a 100V MSX and the wheel on an 84V MSX to see what the difference is? It would also be fairly interesting to know how the battery weights compare between the newer 21700 type and the older 18650(?) type. Since the new wheel will be the Inmotion Flagship product in 2020, 21700 type will be a better option, don't you think? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yxzygäilijä Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 (edited) One question related to the upcoming wheel @Liamfind. Where the suspension will be? Is it on the pedals or on the motor/tire? Edited March 23, 2020 by Yxzygäilijä Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 53 minutes ago, Liamfind said: Since the new wheel will be the Inmotion Flagship product in 2020, 21700 type will be a better option, don't you think? Will there be any major benefit choosing one other. I mean If it add a lot of extra cost but not giving you much then would it be worth it just because people ask for it but did see why you as a brand would choose the type you choose. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamSuffit Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 (edited) Nothing specific here, but it seems Inmotion will offer something much more new than V8F (from Twitter https://twitter.com/INMOTIONSCV/status/1240917205937582083): Edited March 23, 2020 by SamSuffit Link added 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancer Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xorbe Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 (edited) Now show the frame sag on the softwheel with an actual load ... Edited March 23, 2020 by xorbe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancer Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 (edited) Edited March 23, 2020 by Dancer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xorbe Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Oh, I see, that's a gym weight on the backside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniVehje Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 2 hours ago, Dancer said: How would that work with the hub motor? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 1 hour ago, UniVehje said: How would that work with the hub motor? Can't see there being enough room for a motor and shocks for starters. And can't see the system dealing with motor torque. They will be working on a different solution I am sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Battery size speculation now that we know they will use 21700s (assuming 5000mAh cells): If 84V: 1480Wh (4p) or even 1850Wh (5p) seem most realistic. If 100V: 1776Wh (="1800"Wh) (4p) seems most realistic. Liking all of these 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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