meepmeepmayer Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 @houseofjob Wow, great info. Now if you can say where the ACM, MCM, msuper have their names from... @Herbas Good points. It can make sense as a model. But I wonder if it would make business sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: @houseofjob Wow, great info. Now if you can say where the ACM, MCM, msuper have their names from... Educated guess would be the ending M's of ACM/MCM, and beginning M of MSuper are for Machine (all those designs were rugged, plus China/Asia loves the Marvel Cinematic Universe, on account of the marketing, plus founded in decades of exposure to Japanese Mecha/robot anime/manga like Robotech, Voltron, etc) Also, another possible link is in the fact that China/Asia loves import European luxury cars, as a status symbol. Hence, the InMotion V could very well come from V5, V8 engine term-age, and Gotway MCM and ACM mimic-ing stuff like "BMW M2" or "Mercedes AMG", etc. Edited November 2, 2019 by houseofjob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xorbe Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 Mountain Climb Machine 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlasP Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, Herbas said: MCM5 has 1500W/800Wh and 16S has 1200W/860Wh in 37lb/17kg weight, I was personally looking for V8F to be something like 1200-1400W/600Wh in 13-15 kg package. That would not compete with V10 and would be close to ideal short-commutting EUC (when you have plenty of access to power sockets, up to 10 KM one way trip, some hills, not super ideal condition roads/pavements). I've been saying pretty much exactly this for a year now. The 16S is pretty perfect as a low-mid-speed commuter spec-wise it's just a shame about those awful leg-hurting side pads. Just give me the InMotion shape/fit-and-finish with the 16S specs (22-24 mph, 800+wh battery, mid-30s lbs weight) and it'd be perfect for that class. Edited November 3, 2019 by AtlasP 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rywokast Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, AtlasP said: I've been saying pretty much exactly this for a year now. The 16S is pretty perfect as a low-mid-speed commuter spec-wise it's just a shame about those awful leg-hurting side pads. Just give me the InMotion shape/fit-and-finish with the 16S specs (22-24 mph, 800+wh battery, mid-30s lbs weight) and it'd be perfect for that class. all comes down to the individual.. i absolutely love the KS16 pads and miss them on other wheels, they are at the absolute perfect position for me right above my ankles and sit flush with my legs giving me unmatched control of the vehicle compared with anything else ive had.. while the v5f and v8 etc are by no means uncomfortable, they dont come close to my 16S which i would choose over anything else any day.. now what i DO really want more than anything is the tesla motor in my 16S with a 1000+ wh battery, and i would immediately sell a few other EUCs.. the slow speed is the absolute only reason i ever choose another comparable wheel over my 16S Edited November 3, 2019 by Rywokast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xorbe Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 (edited) Wish I'd bought a V8 instead of the MCM5. MCM5 is a lot more commuter utilitarian than the MTen3, but I was looking for a little more tire I think. I kinda don't want to buy a 4th wheel though ... I see Rywokast (the post above this) has been through 23 wheels!! Edited November 3, 2019 by xorbe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rywokast Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, xorbe said: Wish I'd bought a V8 instead of the MCM5. MCM5 is a lot more commuter utilitarian than the MTen3, but I was looking for a little more tire I think. I kinda don't want to buy a 4th wheel though ... I see Rywokast (the post above this) has been through 23 wheels!! i think you meant 13 xD but actually ive had three versions of the KS16, two versions of the ACM, two of the Tesla, KS18L and XL, as well as the V5F, and V5F+ so thats 19 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblade Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 On 11/1/2019 at 5:48 PM, houseofjob said: The lineage I believe goes: V5 > V5+ > V5D (China) / V5F (ex-China) > V5F+ V8 > to now V8F V10 alongside the V10F Not sure, but I wanna say the numbering originally was based around the original series' motor powers (V5 +\- 500W; V8 +\- 800W; then it seems they just ran with it to 10) The D vs F really feels like it was originally for the oldest V5's models, China Domestic vs Foreign, as the China market tends to favor lower priced, thus lower power models. In general, I know Asian cultures feel like English nomenclature sounds cooler, but due to lack of English prowess, acronyms are much easier to come up with. All just educated guesses though. Exactly... the only thing different between the V10 and V10F, is a substantial increase in the battery capacity. One would think (hope) the V8F would follow suit in this regard, but sadly it doesn't seem to be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 On 10/31/2019 at 10:39 PM, Nic said: The v8 motor is 800W (at 10A, 80v) and has a stated peak power of 1600W (at 20A, 80v) which is double the nominal value. The max continuous current rating for the MH1 cells is 10A, so for 2p configuration is 20A. By adding 50% more cells in parallel the max continuous current is now 30A and the nominal motor power becomes 1200W with 2400W peak. I don’t think the max and nominal values can be mixed like that. The 10A rating for the battery is continuous, and 18650 batteries can generally offer much more to serve a short term requirement. While much of the V8’s limitations may come from the battery, I’m not convinced that the power output would increase linearly by adding more battery current. If the firmware is designed for max 800W, it may not even scale up linearly either. More power doesn’t help if the wheel is designed to give in on the pedal angle a certain amount at a certain stress level. The V8 pedals felt quite soft after the 16S, even at medium stress. On 10/31/2019 at 10:39 PM, Nic said: I did notice that InMotion quote the peak power of the v8 can be as high as 2400W so it looks like 3p configuration is safe to use. I too believe it would be safe, but not because of the peak power rating of the wheel. On 10/31/2019 at 10:39 PM, Nic said: These numbers are just estimates That is very true, for all power related values on an EUC. On 10/31/2019 at 10:50 PM, xorbe said: That's not how it works. You could put a 500p 5000A battery pack on the V8, but the controller only has 74 volts nominally to work with under load. ... But to pony up the peak power, you need more voltage That’s not how it works either. 16S is a 1200W nom. wheel, operating at 67.2V max. Z10 is a 2000W wheel operating at ~57V max. In my understanding at lower speeds the controller must provide more current for more power, not voltage. On 10/31/2019 at 10:56 PM, Asphalt said: the V8F, like the V8, has many ergonomic advantages over other EUCs (e.g. KS-16S): Quick-press power button to turn on/off wheel (Long-press to turn on/off light). Standing on the EUC on traffic lights and your finger slipping or not pressing properly on the button causes the wheel to turn off... is an advantage? I see the behaviour flopsided and a bit dangerous. On 10/31/2019 at 10:56 PM, Asphalt said: Cut-off button under the handle. Solid handle. Trolley handle is spring-loaded and can be released with your thumb while carrying the EUC by the handle. The 16S handle mechanism got upgraded about a year ago, and is now sturdier and has a cut-off function when lifted. On 10/31/2019 at 10:56 PM, Asphalt said: Hinged door for accessing the tire valve. Shell covers enough of the wheel to make a mud guard unnecessary. The hinged door on the V8 is a 2nd grade solution to a problem that shouldn’t even exist. The 16S valve can be reached pretty much as easily as the V8 valve when the V8 cover is open, without needing to forcefully pull on thin plastic parts. On 10/31/2019 at 10:56 PM, Asphalt said: NO SOUND. Wheel is silent when turning on/off and charging. So is my 16S with the speakers unplugged. The beeper will still warn me when necessary. A 1200W 680Wh V8F+ would indeed be a great wheel, and pretty much what I was expecting early on from the upgrade. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 54 minutes ago, mrelwood said: Standing on the EUC on traffic lights and your finger slipping or not pressing properly on the button causes the wheel to turn off... is an advantage? I see the behaviour flopsided and a bit dangerous. I am so happy that I don't need to press the ON button for >1/2 second every time (as I needed with the Gotway). I placed a little padding to prevent the button from being accidental pressing with the added benefit that I can press the button without looking while riding. The problem with long pressing is that one always has to double check whether pressing was long enough to be effective. That is very far from fail safe as well, in particular when in a hurry (in a hurry to take off and not pressing long enough and not double checking and mounting and ooops...). That one more second feels like an eternity if you want to come out just ahead of the cyclist or of... 54 minutes ago, mrelwood said: The hinged door on the V8 is a 2nd grade solution to a problem that shouldn’t even exist. The 16S valve can be reached pretty much as easily as the V8 valve when the V8 cover is open, without needing to forcefully pull on thin plastic parts. True, I upgraded the V8 by removing this totally useless plastic valve door. 54 minutes ago, mrelwood said: A 1200W 680Wh V8F+ would indeed be a great wheel, and pretty much what I was expecting early on from the upgrade. Indeed, true as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xorbe Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 1 hour ago, mrelwood said: That’s not how it works either. 16S is a 1200W nom. wheel, operating at 67.2V max. Z10 is a 2000W wheel operating at ~57V max. Do I have to spell it out? Relative to the hardware at hand. Of course if you are going to stuff a Z10 motor into a V8, then probably the results are going to be different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 If it can take peaks up to 1600-2000w doesn't that mean that the motor isn't the limit but instead it's a controller/battery/wire limitation? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xorbe Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Just like audio amplifiers, motor peak power is a poor metric. It can probably handle 20,000W for 100mS, etc. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveCut Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, mrelwood said: While much of the V8’s limitations may come from the battery, I’m not convinced that the power output would increase linearly by adding more battery current. If the firmware is designed for max 800W, it may not even scale up linearly either. AFAIK, not confirmed: V8 controller hard limits current at level of 25A, and thats the reason of so called "pendulum effect" when controller cant draw. more power in moment to balance out, which leads to extreme tilt forward or back, then tries to outplay this fast, hits, either, battery voltage drop, or (in case if battery is not an issue, 3P) current limit, starts to oscillate back and forth and cant play it out. Depending on if you have stock battery or modified 3P version you'll either fall down because of voltage drop (read power drop), or have weird second riding wild mustang. 13 hours ago, mrelwood said: The V8 pedals felt quite soft after the 16S, even at medium stress. Oh my god you can't be wrong more than that. It's your lack of confidence mistake. Edited November 5, 2019 by WaveCut 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, WaveCut said: It's your lack of confidence mistake. LOL, offtopic: in general, I find those who lack confidence much more trustworthy than all these overconfident people. Edited November 5, 2019 by Mono Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 17 hours ago, WaveCut said: Oh my god you can't be wrong more than that. It's your lack of confidence mistake. Umm... I wrote how the V8 feels to me in a certain situation. How can that be ”wrong”? Are my feelings incorrect or faulty? Should I found a band called ”Faulty Feelings”? ”Did you like the gig?” ”Not really.” ”You are WRONG!!” And what exactly is a ”lack of confidence mistake”? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveCut Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 @mrelwood I mean no offense, sorry for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilvodka Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 Anyone know when the v8f will be released? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarrettJ Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Topkek said: Anyone know when the v8f will be released? I think Jason said the official date is Nov 20th. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, WaveCut said: @mrelwood I mean no offense, sorry for that None taken, I just wanted to underline that it was a pointless comment. Edited November 6, 2019 by mrelwood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 12 hours ago, WaveCut said: @mrelwood I mean no offense, sorry for that The question remains though: what exactly is a ”lack of confidence mistake”? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 (edited) On 11/4/2019 at 6:49 PM, mrelwood said: The V8 pedals felt quite soft after the 16S, even at medium stress. 1 hour ago, Mono said: The question remains though: what exactly is a ”lack of confidence mistake”? At 15:30 in this review the reviewer says the v8 pedals are stiffer during hard acceleration than on the KS16S and stay flat unlike the KS16S which tends to dip. Edited November 6, 2019 by Nic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 13 minutes ago, Nic said: At 15:30 in this review the reviewer says the v8 pedals are stiffer during hard acceleration than on the KS16S and stay flat unlike the KS16S which tends to dip. That's just the 420Wh version he's talking about... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 51 minutes ago, Chriull said: That's just the 420Wh version he's talking about... Comparing Apples to Apples... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rywokast Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Nic said: At 15:30 in this review the reviewer says the v8 pedals are stiffer during hard acceleration than on the KS16S and stay flat unlike the KS16S which tends to dip. idk what anyones talking about... every pedal on every euc ive ever ridden BESIDES the ninebot one (which i think it intentional), has been absolutely rock solid... perhaps its my weight but if set to hard mode or advanced mode or sport mode w/e all pedals seem perfectly rock solid to me, even my v5f that i ride regularly the pedals are like standing on concrete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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