InMotion V8f

[WoID]

I really don't get it why inmotion sent pre-production models to dealers with unfinished hardware. Even the motor is not final. They may be open for prejudice.

The other thing concerns me is they used identical mainboard with V8. I was expecting some change on design to compensate an upgrade. Wish at least they used better components this time, I've an history with blown motherboard.

Preordered anyway. I sold my V8 a month ago, tried everything from 16S to Gotway Nikola and 16X, couldn't think any other wheel on this price/performance/portability sweet spot. 

 

Edited November 30, 2019 by WoID

[Mono]

17 hours ago, AtlasP said:

The V8F looks to be the perfect example of what a refresh /should/ be (versus the release of a new wheel), updating a well-received product/bringing it up-to-date without changing its identity/focus/place in the market.

I appreciate the update, but it seems not quite perfect to me. Inmotion should have updated the light, but didn't. Inmotion updated the side pads, but apparently they are (still) uncomfortable. Inmotion updated the pedals, which is great, but their construction looks suspiciously similar to the pedals of the original V10 which are way too fragile and quickly break under (somewhat) unconventional stress. To be seen, they do look strengthened at a relevant place but I am not fully confident that this problem is fixed.

The pre-released wheel weighs 16kg, and the final version will weigh 14.5kg? Where could they carve away 1.5kg? Does that mean the final version will have a different motor?

Edited November 30, 2019 by Mono

[Mono]

5 hours ago, AtlasP said:

The only niche here is the that of this enthusiast audience and their disconnect from broader market realities.  Cheap & light matters. Mid-to-upper teens mph is sufficient for most casual riders--which is to say most riders (due to some combination of usage scenario and safety concerns). Most western consumers associate build-quality with trustworthiness/safety. Etc.

You or I might like to go a lot faster and be willing to pay a lot more (and put up with a lot more), but we're the niche.

+1

It's always difficult to overcome ones own biases. I found myself a few times in this forum exchanging arguments back and forth before to realize that the parties were almost expected to disagree because they had different things in mind of what EUCing actually entails (speed, distance...).

[KAY GEE]

1 hour ago, Mono said:

I appreciate the update, but it seems not quite perfect to me. Inmotion should have updated the light, but didn't. Inmotion updated the side pads, but apparently they are (still) uncomfortable. Inmotion updated the pedals, which is great, but their construction looks suspiciously similar to the pedals of the original V10 which are way too fragile and quickly break under (somewhat) unconventional stress. To be seen, they do look strengthened at a relevant place but I am not fully confident that this problem is fixed.

The pre-released wheel weighs 16kg, and the final version will weigh 14.5kg? Where could they carve away 1.5kg? Does that mean the final version will have a different motor?

If Inmotion had made the V8F specification the same as the Ks 16S, they would have clinched the ultra portable segment, my 2 cents 👌 

[Mono]

2 hours ago, KAY GEE said:

If Inmotion had made the V8F specification the same as the Ks 16S, they would have clinched the ultra portable segment, my 2 cents 👌 

Does the KS 16S have a kill switch?

I don't exactly see why an ultra portable device should have more than 30km of range or more than 1kW of power. I do see though that it should rather weigh 8kg than 13kg to be considered as ultra portable. Not really the specification of the KS16s.

                    NB1   V8    V8F    KS16S   DESPERATELY WANTED^(1)
Weight [kg]:       14.5  13.5   14.5   15/17.3 <=13.0 (including trolley handle, lights, kill switch)
Power [W]:         500   800    1000   1200    >=999
Battery [Wh]:      320   460    520    420/840 >=520 or swappable in <=10s
Tire diameter ["]:  16    16    16     16      >=16
Tire width:        2.125 1.95   2.125  2.125   >=2.3
Pedal length [mm]: 215   212    241    210     >=225
Pedal height [mm]:  ?    135    135?   130     >=140
Body width [mm]:   175   148    148    195     <=150
Body height [mm]:  475   538    538    506     <=540
Body length [mm]:  453   460    460    463     <=470
Light ahead [m]:     0     3      3     ?      >=10

(1) https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/11892-ninebot-one-e-inmotion-v8-whats-next/

Edited November 30, 2019 by Mono

[KAY GEE]

36 minutes ago, Mono said:

Does the KS 16S have a kill switch?

 

Yes it does, the newer versions have the sensor underneath the handle.

[WoID]

27 minutes ago, KAY GEE said:

Yes it does, the newer versions have the sensor underneath the handle.

As the same handle extends as a trolley, it cuts the power with extended handle as well. I might consider it if the weight was below 15 kg, pedals were high enough to steer clear off the ground in sharp turns and side cushions wouldn't so wide that hurting my legs.

Edited November 30, 2019 by WoID

[Mono]

20 minutes ago, WoID said:

it cuts the power with extended handle as well

But it cuts the power only when pulling the handle, right? Such that it can be trolleyed without cutting out?

[WoID]

41 minutes ago, Mono said:

But it cuts the power only when pulling the handle, right? Such that it can be trolleyed without cutting out?

Yes, that's right.

[Nic]

11 hours ago, Rywokast said:

same battery? the scooter is 280 wh and the v8 is 480 wh lol..

M365 Pro version is 474Wh battery ... identical to v8 as same cells used. Motor is also 1000W peak. Scooter seems to be more complex to manufacture with more parts than simpler EUC, but as it is produced in greater numbers it is cheaper.

Edited November 30, 2019 by Nic

[Rywokast]

45 minutes ago, Nic said:

M365 Pro version is 474Wh battery ... identical to v8 as same cells used. Motor is also 1000W peak. Scooter seems to be more complex to manufacture with more parts than simpler EUC, but as it is produced in greater numbers it is cheaper.

oh pro didn't notice that haha I was looking at the regular one

[mrelwood]

47 minutes ago, Nic said:

M365 Pro version is 474Wh battery ... identical to v8 as same cells used. Motor is also 1000W peak.

V8F motor is 1000W nominal. The peak power is likely somewhere in the 2000-3000W range.

47 minutes ago, Nic said:

Scooter seems to be more complex to manufacture with more parts than simpler EUC, but as it is produced in greater numbers it is cheaper.

This surely plays a part in the pricing.

[z3n]

20 hours ago, Nic said:

I just ordered a Xiaomi M365 Pro Scooter for £353.25 from GearBest in the Black Friday sales. I already have a v8 unicycle and that cost me around £1000 to buy and it has the same battery size and performance as the scooter ... except the scooter was one third the price ... gasp!

Given the high premium for EUCs compared to similar performance scooter its really a no-brainer for most people to buy a scooter. I am glad I have both, but the cost of EUCs seems pretty hard to swallow if you don't have spare cash to burn. I still look forward to upgrade my v8 to another larger EUC with more range in the future, but there are some really high performance scooters to be had for considerably less, so its really hard to justify.

One major part of scooters people tend to ignore:
More moving parts = higher maintenance and more replacement = higher extra cost.

[Nic]

2 hours ago, z3n said:

One major part of scooters people tend to ignore:
More moving parts = higher maintenance and more replacement = higher extra cost.

Maybe, but scooters tend to crash less often and don't get wrecked like when you take a fall on an EUC, which is relatively common. Scooter parts are easier to find and cheaper to buy as well because there are many after-market versions and upgrades available for M365 scooter at least. For someone on a budget a scooter is a far better proposition by a massive margin.

Edited November 30, 2019 by Nic

[AtlasP]

On 11/30/2019 at 4:10 AM, Mono said:

I appreciate the update, but it seems not quite perfect to me. Inmotion should have updated the light, but didn't. Inmotion updated the side pads, but apparently they are (still) uncomfortable. Inmotion updated the pedals, which is great, but their construction looks suspiciously similar to the pedals of the original V10 which are way too fragile and quickly break under (somewhat) unconventional stress. To be seen, they do look strengthened at a relevant place but I am not fully confident that this problem is fixed.

• The lack of update to the light is a fair (although minor) concern/criticism. (I wonder how many casual users even ride in the dark, compared to enthusiasts or like I'm a self-employed night-owl so I often go out riding at midnight or something.)
• On the side pads, I call bullshit on the guy in the video. I absolutely loved the pads on my V10F and they're supposedly the same on the V8F, so I have high hopes. (My only guess is if he's only used to a larger/taller wheel, obviously the pads for all smaller wheels hit lower on the leg which he might not be used to.)
• The V10F/now V8F pedals are the single-most-comfortable pedals on the market, and a large contributor to why the V10F has such a revered ride quality. The few reported breakages are concerning/warrant regular inspection, but between the reinforcements and for most lighter riders I expect it to be fine. Ultimately I think the ride quality contributions there make the design worth 'fighting for' and trying to salvage/reinforce it versus scrapping the design (and potental) entirely, and it looks like that's what they're doing (iterating on the design and reinforcing them).

Edited December 4, 2019 by AtlasP

[AtlasP]

19 hours ago, KAY GEE said:

If Inmotion had made the V8F specification the same as the Ks 16S, they would have clinched the ultra portable segment, my 2 cents

The main difference at this point is just the battery, weight, and price, which are closely interrelated and they obviously are acting on a clear hierarchy of priorities regarding that tradeoff. It would be interesting if they had multiple battery SKUs that offered a choice (like the KS14D/S), but in the absence of them wanting to do that for whatever reason, then it's clear that they're prioritizing low weight/size/price over a larger battery.) One can't overestimate how much price must be a fundamental consideration there (and trying to stay under the $1k barrier, which I think is where the V8F will eventually settle--hell we already saw it for under $1k this Black Friday and it just launched/hasn't even shipped yet).

[mrelwood]

On 11/30/2019 at 1:26 PM, KAY GEE said:

If Inmotion had made the V8F specification the same as the Ks 16S, they would have clinched the ultra portable segment, my 2 cents 👌 

Then we wouldn’t have a 16-incher worth considering in the V8 weight/price range. I don’t think trying to match competitors models very closely would make much sense in such a narrow market segment that the EUCs are. Having a segment entirely for theirs’ to rule is a good place to be.

[Mono]

12 hours ago, AtlasP said:

• The lack of update to the light is fair. (I wonder how many casual users even ride in the dark, compared to enthusiasts or like I'm a self-employed night-owl so I often go out riding at midnight or something.)

The kids of us playing in the streets do not need the light, but those of us who use a wheel as their last mile transportation solution don't really have the choice at which time of the day they will need it.

Quote

• The V10F/now V8F pedals are the single-most-comfortable pedals on the market, and a large contributor to why the V10F has such a revered ride quality. The few reported breakages are concerning/warrant regular inspection, but between the reinforcements and for most lighter riders I expect it to be fine. Ultimately I think the ride quality contributions there make the design worth 'fighting for'/trying to improve versus scrapping the design (and potental) entirely.

I also prefered the rubber pedals of the V10 over any others. I find the grip of the rubber more predictable in adverse conditions and more durable compared to abrasive griptape. Unfortunately, the surface of the new version seems to be back to the abrasive tape.

But I think the pedal breakages are more than just a few outliers. I saw casual mentioning of this like "yeah, just bought new pedals for the V10, because the old broke", in some arbitrary thread in the forum. I may be biased (but also pay more attention) because it happened to me too: I bought the V10 pedals, put them on the V8 and they broke within 1000km-or-so. Otherwise I never had any single pedal cracking or breaking for 15000km, I weigh 80kg and I go down curbs with soft knees (but yeah, I do go up and down curbs). The phrase "for most lighter riders I expect it to be fine" is a joke, no? Pedals not breaking is a pretty relevant safety feature! How could be "most of the time fine for lighter riders" even close to be acceptable?

Edited December 1, 2019 by Mono

[AtlasP]

On 12/1/2019 at 12:17 PM, Mono said:

I also prefered the rubber pedals of the V10 over any others. I find the grip of the rubber more predictable in adverse conditions and more durable compared to abrasive griptape. Unfortunately, the surface of the new version seems to be back to the abrasive tape.

This is backwards. The primary achievement and virtue of the V10-style pedals was the structure coupled with the rubber insets which absorb shock like no other wheel on the market. Conversely grip tape is still superior traction-wise to the rubber top of the old/original V10 pedals which lose traction when wet. Fortunately the revised V10 pedals (also on the V8F) look to be the best of both worlds (the rubber insets for shock absorption with grip tape on top).

On 12/1/2019 at 12:17 PM, Mono said:

The phrase "for most lighter riders I expect it to be fine" is a joke, no? Pedals not breaking is a pretty relevant safety feature! How could be "most of the time fine for lighter riders" even close to be acceptable?

Of course you crop out the first part of the sentence you quoted which changes its meaning. The original sentence said: "between the reinforcements and for most lighter riders..." If InMotion had just put the same original V10 pedals on the V8F that would not have been acceptable. But they did revise/reinforce them, and I think that's worth giving the new version a chance. Again, particularly given the obvious known benefits to ride quality.

Edit: between this and subsequent exchanges it appears this is a language barrier problem.

Edited December 4, 2019 by AtlasP

[Mono]

1 hour ago, AtlasP said:

Conversely grip tape is still superior traction-wise to the rubber top of the old/original V10 pedals which lose traction when wet.

In my experience rubber had superior grip in particular under wet and dirty conditions, exactly when I needed the grip. Unfortunately, the pedals are broken, so now I am back to the more slippery V8 pedals 

Edited December 1, 2019 by Mono

[Mono]

1 hour ago, AtlasP said:

Of course you crop out the first part of the sentence you quoted which changes its meaning. The original sentence said: "between the reinforcements and for most lighter riders I expect it to be fine".

Right, I don't understand what "between the reinforcements" means, but you seem to be content with it to be fine for most(!) lighter(!) riders.

Edited December 1, 2019 by Mono

[AtlasP]

On 12/1/2019 at 5:49 PM, Mono said:

Right, I don't understand what "between the reinforcements" means, but you seem to be content with it to be fine for most(!) lighter(!) riders.

 

• That's: "Between [the reinforcements] and [for most lighter riders]", as in, the combination of those two things.
• Reinforcements = those made to the latest version of the pedals
• For most lighter riders = the category of people buying the V8 when most sources recommend it for someone under ~175 pounds, and likewise a category of casual riders likely just using it as a means of transportation (not doing a lot of crazy tricks/large jumps/etc on it)

Edit: it looks like this may be a language barrier problem.

Edited December 3, 2019 by AtlasP

[Mono]

42 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

That's: "Between [the reinforcements] and [for most lighter riders]", as in, the combination of those two things.

I still don't understand the language, but if you mean a combination of most light riders with something else I don't see how I misquoted you.

42 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

For most lighter riders = the category of people buying the V8 when most sources recommend it for someone under ~175 pounds, and likewise a category of casual riders likely just using it as a means of transportation (not doing a lot of tricks/crazy jumps/etc on it)

Only that the V8F and the V10 are specified for a load up to 120kg and that we are talking about the V10 pedals which are those cracking anyway, LOL, the pedals of the "for light riders only" V8 are the perfectly sturdy ones. These are also the pedals of the V5 which seems to be one of the go-to wheels if one wanted to do tricks (I know, this guy is ultra light), so to say a trick wheel as an opposite to the Monster.

In my single test experience the V5/V8 pedals have lasted more than ten times longer than the original V10 pedals (apart from the abrasive grip tape).

Edited December 2, 2019 by Mono

[Nic]

9 hours ago, Mono said:

In my single test experience the V5/V8 pedals have lasted more than ten times longer than the original V10 pedals (apart from the abrasive grip tape).

I wonder if the rounded shape has something to do with this, because it will tend to deflect impacts.

[WoID]

I still wonder if the real product will worth the wait. We only have some riding experience on unfinished prototypes yet.