Is a fall inevitable?

[tenofnine]

An Inmotion dumping you at top speed with plenty of battery? Thought I'd never hear of such a thing.

Are you under the 220 recommended weight limit?

If you are within the specs of riding that wheel I imagine there must be some very unlucky rare fault with your V8. Like KingSong they limit the speed lower than they are capable of and the wattage of the motor can peak much higher than the rating they give.

[Mono]

8 hours ago, tenofnine said:

An Inmotion dumping you at top speed with plenty of battery? Thought I'd never hear of such a thing.

Definitely not the first time I read something like this, though it's always hard to say how uneventful an event is...

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Mono

[tenofnine]

3 hours ago, Mono said:

Definitely not the first time I read something like this, though it's always hard to say how uneventful and event is...

 

Dude weighs 245, he's tall, size 13 shoe. They should have not sold him a V8.

That's one thing that is bad about inmotion they exaggerate to a dangerous degree their range and payload limit on their wheels. I wouldn't sell the V8 to anyone over 200 pounds, eWheels is smart to say 220 at least.

[Mono]

22 minutes ago, tenofnine said:

They should have not sold him a V8.

That's pretty obvious 

[Fuzzypixel]

9 hours ago, tenofnine said:

An Inmotion dumping you at top speed with plenty of battery? Thought I'd never hear of such a thing.

Are you under the 220 recommended weight limit?

If you are within the specs of riding that wheel I imagine there must be some very unlucky rare fault with your V8. Like KingSong they limit the speed lower than they are capable of and the wattage of the motor can peak much higher than the rating they give.

 

I'm 150 with the gear so yeah I didn't expect it to dump me at all. Usually it would just tilt back and beep if I'm pushing too far. 

[Mono]

5 minutes ago, Fuzzypixel said:

 

I'm 150 with the gear so yeah I didn't expect it to dump me at all. Usually it would just tilt back and beep if I'm pushing too far. 

remains the question what you meant by "close to top speed", as the factory top speed setting can be changed by the user in both directions.

[Fuzzypixel]

2 hours ago, Mono said:

remains the question what you meant by "close to top speed", as the factory top speed setting can be changed by the user in both directions.

It's up to max inmotion app settings, 18.7 or whatever it is. From what it felt I was going close to that.

[meepmeepmayer]

There have been some reports of V8s switching off under high stress (usually at top speed) in unlucky circumstances. Shame but can't be denied.  It's a 3 year old, weaker wheel in the end.

Newer wheels (stronger and with bigger batteries) don't do this. I know of a single report of a KS16S (4p battery, 1200W motor rating) being overwhelmed by a 120kg (265lbs) person, but not a single overlean of a stronger wheel. That means an unjustified (or unexplained) overlean during normal riding, not people going 40mph with their 30mph wheels or something like that.

So I wouldn't extrapolate from your V8 experience. The modern, powerful wheels don't switch off in 99.999999% of cases A sudden cut-out is the opposite of inevitable, it is extremely unlikely if your wheel is powerful enough. People should worry about falls that they themselves or someone else (aka car) causes, not the wheel failing.

Edited May 21, 2019 by meepmeepmayer
spelling

[Fuzzypixel]

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

There have been some reports of V8s switching off under high stress (usually at top speed) in unlucky circumstances. Shame but can't be denied.  It's a 3 year old, weaker wheel in the end.

Newer wheels (stronger and with bigger batteries) don't do this. I know of a single report of a KS16S (4p battery, 1200W motor rating) being overwhelmed by a 120kg (265lbs) person, but not a single overlean of a stronger wheel. That means an unjustified (or unexplained) overlean during normal riding, not people going 40mph with their 30mph wheels or something like that.

So I wouldn't extrapolate from your V8 experience. The modern, powerful wheels don't switch off in 99.999999% of cases A sudden cut-out is the opposite of inevitable, it is extremely unlikely if your wheel is powerful enough. People should worry about falls that they themselves or someone else (aka car) causes, not the wheel failing.

So what you are saying is that I should immediately upgrade. I did pitch that to my significant other (eyeing V10F and possibly 16X), stressing out the "more powerful, and thus safer, but not necessarily faster" wheel angle.

 

So far she hasn't been impressed but now I'll say the community strongly suggested to do that for safety 🤣

[meepmeepmayer]

@Fuzzypixel I officially, strongly suggest you get a stronger, more powerful, bigger battery, and therefore safer wheel in the short to medium term

You don't have to upgrade immediately (if you want to wait for the 16X, for example, which is not a bad plan!), but in the end, you need a safer wheel.

The V8 is borderline unsafe for a regular weight rider who doesn't restrict himself to <25kph/15mph, as you learned.

There's also lots of other reason to upgrade and have more wheels, but safety is seriously an aspect here.

[Smoother]

Yes @Fuzzypixel as another officially-unofficial representative of the EUC community I strongly suggest you upgrade to a stronger wheel for your safety. Life's to short to ride a weak wheel and might be shorter still, because of it. Think of your loved ones. You owe it to them. 

 

Edited May 22, 2019 by Smoother

[Fuzzypixel]

Well, looks like I have no choice but upgrade now (I've been waiting to see if inmotion offers an upgraded V8), as today the wheel dropped me the second time. Almost exactly the same conditions, same road even, it just dumped me at 16mph (WheelLog was just announcing speed when it happened).

 

The wheel bounced and spun while laying on it's side. As last time there were no warning beeps or anything, I just felt that it stopped supporting me and flew forward. 

 

At least I was smart(er) and wore decent protection (wrist protectors and mesh motorcycle jacket, both took some beating as I fell the way I was taught on roller blades, wrists, elbows knees).

Sadly no knee protection so some scratches there (and torn jeans).

 

2019_07_11_17_07_01.csv

Edited July 12, 2019 by Fuzzypixel
Clarification

[Ben Kim]

I've already fallen 3x on my KS18S, all three falls were my fault, below 10 MPH (all related to texting while riding), However, the wheel being the point of failure was never the issue, I was.

With that said, all PEVs or vehicles which have you riding exposed are an inherent danger.  Gear up, as riding isn't worth your livelihood.  

[erk1024]

I'll add my vote to getting a stronger wheel... also for protective equipment.

I was riding my 18xl, and my daughter was riding her scooter. There was a steep little ramp onto a bike path. It was asphalt, and there was a pothole in the ramp. I've gone up this ramp before, but this time I hit it a little faster this time. The wheel slowed too fast for me to balance, and I fell off the front. But I was wearing my wrist guards, knee pads, elbow pads and helmet, so no big deal and no injuries. I bruised my thumb a little bit.

So I guess what I'm saying is with some protective equipment, a random fall here or there is no big deal. 

Edited July 12, 2019 by erk1024

[winterwheel]

On 5/21/2019 at 9:10 AM, tenofnine said:

Dude weighs 245, he's tall, size 13 shoe. They should have not sold him a V8.

That's one thing that is bad about inmotion they exaggerate to a dangerous degree their range and payload limit on their wheels. I wouldn't sell the V8 to anyone over 200 pounds, eWheels is smart to say 220 at least.

Not a recommendation, but I've been riding my V8 off on for 18 months including my daily commute for the  first three or four months, riding weight 240-255 depending on what I had for breakfast. Never had a cutout. If a V8 is cutting out at 80% battery on a level surface with a 220lb rider I'd personally suspect an issue with that particular wheel.

[svenomous]

This is an old thread that's been revived, and I'm back online after a few weeks of "too much stuff going on in my life," so I'll count up my falls so far, in <3 months and about 500 miles of riding a KS18XL (my first wheel):

1. First day, second hour, still learning to mount.  Parking lot.  Speed probably 3mph.  No protective gear because I'm stupid (my rationalization was that at those speeds who needs gear).  Wobbled toward curb, panicked, tried to step off, somehow tripped over myself and went into classic face-plant, banged my chin on the very curb I was so panicked about.  A little blood, a little pain in the jaw, and some more blood and missing skin on one finger.  Nothing broken, training not interrupted (too much fun!).
2. A few weeks ago, on my first "long-distance" ride in public.  Shared-use trail (pedestrians, bicyclists, skateboarders, children, you name it) on a nice sunny weekend, so lots of people.  Two people on bikes, opposite direction, were talking to each other and not paying attention to the path, and suddenly they made a synchronized U-turn right in front of me.  Yes, they swerved to temporarily block the opposite lane without bothering to look if there was oncoming traffic, even though there are plenty of Lance Armstrong wannabes going 22mph on this trail, with their lycra gear and teardrop-shaped aerodynamic helmets and nasty "out of the way, I'm training for the Tour de France here" attitude.  Sorry, I'm diverging into a rant.  I had time to shout and partially decelerate from about 20mph to maybe 10mph, then stumbled off and fell forward against the rear wheel of one of the bikes in question.  The wheel went into the bushes.  No damage to me or the wheel or the bikes.  The riders were appropriately shame-faced and apologetic.

I enjoy riding but live in some fear of "the big crash."  My commutes to work involve about 4.5 miles of dedicated trails in each direction, but also 4 miles of roads and streets, in a bike lane or on a shoulder next to heavy commute traffic.  On the downhills and flat straights I travel at about 25mph.  A moment of inattention, a driver cutting me off into our out of a side street or driveway, a pedestrian doing something unpredictable, a rock in the bike lane that I didn't see, the wheel suffering an unexplained cut-out...something.  I'm hyper-alert while on the roads/streets, and never pull out phones or get distracted looking at the scenery.  I want to make sure that whatever happens is as unlikely as possible, and as little my fault as possible.  I always wear full-face helmet, wrist guards, elbow guards, and knee protection.

The other day I came close to my dreaded nightmare crash.  On a major street with traffic rushing by at 30mph or so I was doing 25mph in the bike lane.  A large gaggle of kids and parents were on the curb waiting for their school bus (in the morning) and blocking the whole sidewalk.  Some guy (his back to me) was trying get by them on the sidewalk, so he just stepped down into the bike lane to go around them.  He did this without looking to see if anyone was coming, and of course I was about 20ft behind him when he did it.  What saved me is that I could see him approaching the blockage, could also see that he had a hurried and purposeful stride, and anticipated he might step down off the curb to get around.  When he did what I half expected him to, I had already slowed significantly and was able to adjust to glide past just as he stepped back up onto the curb.  I even managed to get uncomfortably close and give him a good startle, which served him right.  Phew!  Now imagine I hadn't foreseen this action.  My options would have been a) swerve left, possibly into a collision with a car or truck; b) intentionally fall to the right, away from traffic but into a group of elementary school children; or c) crash into the guy in the bike lane, who certainly deserved the pain the most.  Hmm. 

[mrelwood]

5 hours ago, svenomous said:

  I want to make sure that whatever happens is as unlikely as possible, and as little my fault as possible.

I think this is a great rule to ride by. I’ve been doing the same. Pedestrians, animals and bicyclists are indeed unpredictable, no way around that. Still, the only thing you can change is your own behaviour and alert level.

[gon2fast]

On 5/16/2019 at 1:45 PM, gon2fast said:

Ironically, two of my worst falls have happened while trying to get across grass fields. One fall was related to a ghost swamp which left me and wheel coated in stinky mud. The second fall was related to me hitting a hole that had blended into the grass at a very slow speed. I was on the ground before I knew what had happened. 

 

Correction, broke my arm three weeks ago ,lol.

[svenomous]

On 7/12/2019 at 9:35 PM, gon2fast said:

Correction, broke my arm three weeks ago ,lol.

@gon2fast, you mean while riding EUC?  Avoidable?  Any lesson learned that's shareable?  Also: sorry and hope it's a simple break that heals fast.

[erk1024]

On 7/13/2019 at 12:35 AM, gon2fast said:

Ironically, two of my worst falls have happened while trying to get across grass fields

Once I tried to cross grass and hit really soft sand, bogged down and had to step off. Grass can be wet, there can be holes, sprinklers, god knows what is hiding in there. Then the transition back to cement is tricky. The level of the grass can be lower than the cement, and it's hard to tell from looking at it. I cross grass as a last resort.

[svenomous]

I'd guess grass is OK on an actual playing field (like a football/soccer field), where one normally sees nice flat ground, close-mowed grass, and no holes or sprinkler heads anywhere.  As long as the ground isn't too soggy from recent rains, that should be OK for initial learning/practice.  A random grass lawn/field, on the other hand, is probably an adventure waiting to happen.

[Joker10]

Know what you mean about riding in grass in Fl.  Never know when that sand will be somewhere in there Erk1024

[dmethvin]

On 7/12/2019 at 6:11 PM, svenomous said:

 My options would have been a) swerve left, possibly into a collision with a car or truck; b) intentionally fall to the right, away from traffic but into a group of elementary school children; or c) crash into the guy in the bike lane, who certainly deserved the pain the most.  Hmm. 

 

[Joker10]

This is one of the reasons experienced riders recommend you buy more wheel than you really need.  I had the 16s give me some tiltback on an unexpected small pothole at about 18mph.  It only happened once in 1200 miles with that wheel.  Didn’t drop me, but let’s just say I didn’t like the feeling.  This convinced me to get an 18l.  The headroom does make the wheel safer unless you increase your speeds to where it is no longer available.

[Rebelcloud]

On 5/15/2019 at 9:48 AM, philippe_kruse said:

Man I am scared reading all these posts about people crashing and burning on their wheels.

Is it par for the course? Is it unavoidable? I am REALLY bad at falling - I am too tall, too heavy - my center of gravity is not made for falling (don't ever put me on cross country skis again).

Is it wholly unreasonable that I should be able to practice really slowly on grass first, and take it so slow that I will never experience a real fall at speed?

I haven't taken the time to read every reply here, but for me, aside from wearing full armour as a precaution; Taking care to bend your knees sufficiently when there is an chance of encountering bumps etc; is one of the most important things you can do.

I had a couple of close calls on my MSX at mid to high speeds, when i'd relaxed a little too much regarding my environmental awareness. Basically my legs were to stiff, I encountered a bump or surface transition and the energy put me straight upward. My feet came back down completely out of place on the pedals, and I struggled momentarily to control the wheel.

It's such a basic thing to overlook, but there is only so muck a pneumatic tyre can absorb.