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Is a fall inevitable?


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On 5/15/2019 at 1:48 AM, philippe_kruse said:

Is it wholly unreasonable that I should be able to practice really slowly on grass first, and take it so slow that I will never experience a real fall at speed?

My friend and I learned the basics of riding on a soccer field by my home. This method worked well because the falls were less damaging for the rider and the wheel.

Ironically, two of my worst falls have happened while trying to get across grass fields. One fall was related to a ghost swamp which left me and wheel coated in stinky mud. The second fall was related to me hitting a hole that had blended into the grass at a very slow speed. I was on the ground before I knew what had happened. 

I think that falling is inevitable, but if you have proper safety equipment and are operating your wheel within its capabilities you should be able to avoid major injuries.

Good luck and remember to have fun!

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On 5/15/2019 at 1:48 AM, philippe_kruse said:

Man I am scared reading all these posts about people crashing and burning on their wheels.

Is it par for the course? Is it unavoidable? I am REALLY bad at falling - I am too tall, too heavy - my center of gravity is not made for falling (don't ever put me on cross country skis again).

Is it wholly unreasonable that I should be able to practice really slowly on grass first, and take it so slow that I will never experience a real fall at speed?

OMG 😮 I’ve crashed a few times too ma y and each time was worse than the next. I hope to god I never fall again but that’s what safety pads are for which admittedly I do not always wear. As comfortable as you think you feel, they are called accidents for a reason. Be careful, be safe, and enjoy the ride! 

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18 hours ago, travsformation said:

Which "wrist guard gloves" are you using?

The ”Hillbilly” branded ones, full finger version.

Quote

And how well does the MC jacket fare in off-road crashes? Supposing there's no external hard-shell and it's not leather, how well does it slide?

I don’t know! And hopefully never will. It is not optimal, but a good quality mc jacket, bough second hand. I removed the waterproofing layer elsewhere except shoulders, since the jacket was originally very hot.

Quote

Do the elbow protections stay in place?

I made the sleeves to a tight fit, but the shields are attached to the slippery lining, so they might still move in a freak fall. The shoulder pads even moreso, so I’m going to sew the shield pockets to the outer fabric instead.

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3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

The ”Hillbilly” branded ones, full finger version.

Seems like an interesting option, thanks! Too bad they don't make the Triple8 Hired Hands (top and bottom wrist plates) in a full-finger version.

3 hours ago, mrelwood said:
Quote

And how well does the MC jacket fare in off-road crashes? Supposing there's no external hard-shell and it's not leather, how well does it slide?

I don’t know! And hopefully never will.

And I hope it stays that way! :)

3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I made the sleeves to a tight fit, but the shields are attached to the slippery lining, so they might still move in a freak fall. The shoulder pads even moreso, so I’m going to sew the shield pockets to the outer fabric instead.

Good to know, thanks. Have been considering MC jackets for some time, but still don't have any first-hand anecdotal evidence of anyone who's had a spill using one.

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1 hour ago, travsformation said:

Good to know, thanks. Have been considering MC jackets for some time, but still don't have any first-hand anecdotal evidence of anyone who's had a spill using one.

🙋🏾‍♂️This guy here. I documented my fall in an earlier post last year. I fell at 33mph wearing the Joe Rocket Phoenix Ion Jacket. The jacket didn’t have d30, just the stock crap plastic armor and stiff foam backpad. I didn’t feel anything when I went down though, I rolled four or five times and the backpad did a good job of cushioning the impact. I didn’t fall on my shoulder or elbow though. My knee took a hard hit though and unluckily I was only wearing cheap $10 foam knee pads. 

Zero abrasion on my body after the fall.

Edited by Darrell Wesh
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Dont think its inevitable but most likely that one will, as we learn how to ride and luck of knowledge understanding limitation of the wheel (mostly Gotway) due that you can turn everything off. Kingsong may be one of the safest, my brother in law hasn't fallen yet, been riding 3-4 months now, his first wheel. My fist fall was on mcm3 not understanding the beeps :((

Edited by yourtoys7
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Wonderful post @travsformation! Summarizes everything:

  • The second you don't look, something tends to happen. Always look where you are going. Every single second.
  • Protective gear.
  • Falls aren't bad. Crazy falls are bad. The goal should be to have your first fall in non-dangerous conditions (not too fast) and be without consequences, and no crazy falls (ever). A fall will make you learn a lot about electric unicycles and to judge how dangerous (or not dangerous) some riding behaviors are. So a minor fall can be very helpful. EUCs are hard to judge if you've never fallen.
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5 hours ago, travsformation said:

Seems like an interesting option, thanks! Too bad they don't make the Triple8 Hired Hands (top and bottom wrist plates) in a full-finger version.

In case you didn’t know, the Hillbillies do have a top splint as well. Not made to Flexmeter standards, but I’d think it would do it’s job during most crashes.

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41 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Wonderful post @travsformation! Summarizes everything:

  • The second you don't look, something tends to happen. Always look where you are going. Every single second.
  • Protective gear.
  • Falls aren't bad. Crazy falls are bad. The goal should be to have your first fall in non-dangerous conditions (not too fast) and be without consequences, and no crazy falls (ever). A fall will make you learn a lot about electric unicycles and to judge how dangerous (or not dangerous) some riding behaviors are. So a minor fall can be very helpful. EUCs are hard to judge if you've never fallen.

Thanks, meep! I definitely second having non-dangerous falls (not intentionally, of course) as part of the learning process, so you can prevent crazy falls.

And @yourtoys7 added an additional and very important item to the list that I forgot:

3 hours ago, yourtoys7 said:

understanding limitation of the wheel

 

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4 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

🙋🏾‍♂️This guy here.

:roflmao:

4 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

I documented my fall in an earlier post last year. I fell at 33mph wearing the Joe Rocket Phoenix Ion Jacket. [...] I didn’t fall on my shoulder or elbow though.

Zero abrasion on my body after the fall.

No doubt about abrasion protection, that's a must!  But my elbow tend to hit the floor immediately after my palm...thus my concern on whether the protection would stay in place or not in the event of a fall (particularly when off-roading)

P.S. Side-tracking again... ooops.... :whistling::efee612b4b:

Edited by travsformation
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29 minutes ago, Smoother said:

Em.. I don't look where I'm going "every single second"

 

29 minutes ago, Smoother said:

I only mention this because I don't want newbies to think they have to stare at the ground all the time.  

Yes we both know that won’t happen. It’s like speed limits. No one follows them. It was just a subliminal suggestion to be cognizant of road hazards ahead. 

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4 hours ago, Smoother said:

I spent half my time looking at Google maps

Where I live, the car streets are perhaps the worst: It takes a lot larger pothole for the city to take care of, especially on streets with less traffic. Bike paths or sidewalks very rarely have potholes of lethal depth.

But as you said, it’s up to the mentioned factors, like one’s comfort level of riding blind, travelling speed etc.

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3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Where I live, the car streets are perhaps the worst: It takes a lot larger pothole for the city to take care of, especially on streets with less traffic. Bike paths or sidewalks very rarely have potholes of lethal depth.

But as you said, it’s up to the mentioned factors, like one’s comfort level of riding blind, travelling speed etc.

I'm not sure what you mean by "riding blind"  With the exception of the occasional no-see-um (which get less and less over time, and don't always lead to a dismount) I'm not riding blind.  I scan, evaluate the path, identify potential hazards, if any, ignore the path for the duration of the immediate scanned zone, and enjoy the ride. 

(It's important to note here that the longer one rides, the less things bite you.  In other words, some things that would dismount you in the beginning, are no more that things that make your wheel shake a bit now while your body automatically compensates and adjusts.  You spend less time worrying about minor irregularities and more time enjoying the ride.)

As my head swings from left to right, taking in the view, AND evaluating threats, other than the path, the scan process continues, fluidly, without interruption.  Other hazards are just as important as your path.  People (the walking brain dead), bikes, cars, shop doors, car doors, cops, low branches, low street signs (remember, you're now 6" taller than normal), dogs, kids on foot, kids on bikes and scooters, traffic lights, cross traffic, gangs of hoodies who you might want to give a wide berth to, cuties and hotties who you might want to NOT give a wide berth to, interesting things to go check out, shops.  Yesterday I started the day with a root canal (there's £800 i'll never see again).  Being aware that the pain is supposed to start after the anesthetics wear off, as I'm wheeling these "new to me" streets, with a still numb mouth, I noticed a small supermarket on the other side of a busy street, so I rerouted myself to pick up some extra pain killers.  I would say one has to be extremely aware of the whole environment around you, especially to the front, as you will be there in a few seconds, and you really want as few surprises as possible. (and the rear if riding in the street, obvs)  All this may sound like a lot of work to a new or potential rider, but it isn't, it's simply observation and evaluation.  Be aware of your surrounding or your surrounding might bite you.

I'm sure what I have just described is the typical routine for all or almost all experienced riders.  I'm not claiming anything unique or special for myself, just helping newbies understand a typical ride (for me at least), as the OP is a potential rider with legitimate questions.

Edited by Smoother
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On 5/15/2019 at 10:48 AM, philippe_kruse said:

Man I am scared reading all these posts about people crashing and burning on their wheels.

Is it par for the course? Is it unavoidable? I am REALLY bad at falling - I am too tall, too heavy - my center of gravity is not made for falling (don't ever put me on cross country skis again).

Is it wholly unreasonable that I should be able to practice really slowly on grass first, and take it so slow that I will never experience a real fall at speed?

It all depends on your psychology. I never had a fall above 15km/h in +13000km. If you are prepared to take no risks, don't speed, and practice to run off, you may be fine. Do not (never) go with speed into a situation or on a surface you have only limited experience with. Finally, soft legs/knees are the life safer to prevent violent falls, but it's quite exhausting to keep the knees bent and soft for an hour or two.

My reasons for unexpectedly falling have been

  • speed bumps
  • clipping the pedal/foot at an obstacle (underestimating the width of my stand)
  • a piece of wood stuck in the shell blocking the wheel
  • losing control on a downhill pathway with unexpected stairs

Polls suggest that 20% of EUC riders are hampered from current or past injuries and 45% have never been injured to the extent that they temporarily stopped riding the EUC.

 

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Here's a short summary of what has made me fall on a EUC -

I will say upfront do not try and go across large cracks in asphalt or up medium curbs DIAGONALLY. The wheel will follow the difference in ground and you will continue in another direction and fall. You have to hit that stuff at a shallow angle or dead-on and you will have no issues. Also you can't easily go on mud, loose gravel/sand, or very wet grassy areas with soft soil.

1. Ninebot One E+ overleaned easily trying to accelerate faster than the bad programming and motor would let me, almost faceplanted but rolled it off going about 13 mph [minor scratches on palms, tear on jacket pocket, thermos flew out of backpack but miraculously had not a scratch on it (some kind of magic happened, still investigating)]
2. Again one Ninebot One E+ overleaned easily from a stop this time I ran it off going about 14 mph (almost hyper-extended my right knee had a bit of a hobble for 2 days, back pack got road rash)

3. On the V5F and was carrying a box under my right arm, riding the tiltback. The moment I realized the box was catching so much air like a sail and throwing my balance off I tried to counteract hard and almost saved it but had to hop off going 16-17 mph. I was unscathed but the V5F took some tumbles and got scratched.

4 Tesla - going about 18 mph and tried to go up diagonally what I thought was a small curb (like a driveway street transition), but it was like half the size of a normal curb and very sharp/squared-off. Wheel bounced up, my left foot came off, it landed on the grass I fell on the concrete. Banged up my right knee a bit and almost did some real bad damage to my right pinky (got lucky only bruise and slight jamming)

But most importantly in areas where there are cars and peds you should not be riding fast like I see 80% of the people do here. If the wheel gets away from you it becomes and very heavy projectile with a lot of momentum.

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On 5/17/2019 at 5:00 PM, Smoother said:

Em.. I don't look where I'm going "every single second".  Sure I scan the route ahead 50 to 100 feet at a time, to identify issues, but if I had to watch my route every single second, I'd sell my wheel and get a bike because life's too short to ride around staring at the ground continuously.  I ride two or three times a week and I can't remember the last time I came off because of a "no-see-um"  OK, I can remember.  It was a tree root under asphalt about three months ago, but I Ran jogged stumbled it off, no problem.

I only mention this because I don't want newbies to think they have to stare at the ground all the time.  Of course the more attention you pay to the ground, the less "no-see-ums" will get you. Only you can decide the right amount of scanning for you, and that will change with the route, your familiarity with the route, your skill level, and how good your scanning technique is.  Your scanning technique needs to be able to identify dangers, also known as "things that have thrown you down the road before". Today I put my car in the shop and left on my wheel on streets I had never seen before.  I spent half my time looking at Google maps to figure out how to get to the river.  No problems; scan and ride, scan and ride. YMMV.

There's no right or wrong here. I wound up torn up and in a sling for weeks as a teenager because the tiniest rock appeared before my racing bike when I was going pretty fast.  I was a very attentive rider with all the concentration of a hyper-fit and perhaps unusually responsible young person.  The tiny rock just appeared too fast.  I bet I could have cut my speed in half and still been in serious trouble.  

I don't think you can determine the measure of disaster you're due.  Riding virtually anything is inherently dangerous.  If you're smart, you gear up, and are attentive, and ride or drive prudently.  And then sometimes it doesn't matter much and you eat gravel.

You're not going to safety your way out of bad luck, but safety helps.

Does paranoia help?  Probably.  But even that's not enough.

Face it.  Accept it.  You're doing something risky.  It may come around to bite you in the ass.  Sorry. 

And if you were doing something less risky, that might hurt you too.

You can't count on getting away with this thing.  If you need to, don't do it.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Dingfelder said:

I don't think you can determine the measure of disaster you're due.  Riding virtually anything is inherently dangerous.  If you're smart, you gear up, and are attentive, and ride or drive prudently.  And then sometimes it doesn't matter much and you eat gravel.

I agree that you can’t determine the scope of injuries that will be sustained if you have an accident while riding any form of conveyance.  There is no magic gear or technique that will protect you from every fall or assault from others on the road.

I was riding my Harley last night when some inattentive driver came within inches of hitting me. To prognosticate what would have occurred if I crashed would have been impossible.

My best chance for survival without injury- no matter what vehicle I’m controlling- is being mindful of my surroundings, wearing protective gear and staying current on my training. 

Edited by Rehab1
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My only two falls were from situations that were not my fault like wheel shutting off without warning and ask axle breaking without warning without anything just actually just take it to the right side of my my unicycle taking a dip and then I went down two major crashes or two major Falls both not my not my fault and but I have to pay for it cuz now my my wheel needs to be repaired and they say it's not under warranty

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My 4 crashes on EUC:

1) Was texting during driving and did not notice a speed bump. Pain level: moderate

2) Decelerated too quickly so the wheel was overloaded and shut down. Pain level: moderate

3) Accelerated too quickly so the wheel was overloaded and shut down. Pain level: low

4) Was distracted and did not notice a pothole. Pain level: none. Not really a crash. I was able to run off it.

Total loses (holes in them): 1 jeans, 1 hoodie, a pair of gloves, coat

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Just had my first crash after 1.6k km on my V8.

Dumped me with no warning at close to top speed on a level smooth road with 80% of battery remaining. Not fun. Luckily just a banged up shoulder.

 

Just shows that it can happen at any time.

 

WheelLog attached in case someone wants to poke around. 

2019_05_17_17_11_19.csv

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4 hours ago, Fuzzypixel said:

Just had my first crash after 1.6k km on my V8.

Dumped me with no warning at close to top speed on a level smooth road with 80% of battery remaining. Not fun. Luckily just a banged up shoulder.

Great that nothing grave happend!

4 hours ago, Fuzzypixel said:

WheelLog attached in case someone wants to poke around. 

2019_05_17_17_11_19.csv 292.42 kB · 3 downloads

Not really anything to be seen... You have a bad bluetooth connection - there are many disconnects of 10-20 seconds in your log. So maybe also just while your accident :(

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1 minute ago, Chriull said:

Great that nothing grave happend!

Not really anything to be seen... You have a bad bluetooth connection - there are many disconnects of 10-20 seconds in your log. So maybe also just while your accident :(

Yeah, that's what I thought too.

Useless fall, not even any data was collected!

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